: So now does anyone still think the CTS-V will be 600 hp?



Kadonny
12-21-07, 09:55 AM
After pretty solid confirmation that the ZR1 will be 620 hp?

2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 unveiled

After years of speculation, spy photos, and rumors, General Motors has finally revealed its 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, which will be on display at the Detroit auto show in January. As expected, the ZR1 is the most powerful and most expensive Corvette model ever.

An all-new LS9 motor produces 620 horsepower at 6500 rpm and 595 pound-feet of torque at 4000 rpm. Delivering 100 horsepower per liter, the supercharged 6.2-liter V8 is mated to a close-ratio six-speed manual gearbox with a new high-capacity clutch designed for the increased power. The twin-disc 260mm design provides plenty of clamping power, while maintaining a relatively easy clutch action.

GM has not disclosed specific performance numbers, but the company admits a top speed of 200 mph is very likely. In terms of acceleration, the ZR1 will most definitely beat its Z06 counterpart, thanks to a 115-horsepower output advantage. Since the Z06 rockets to 60 mph in just 3.6 seconds, it's a safe bet the ZR1 will be much closer to the 3.0 mark. Final numbers will be announced in March 2008.

thebigjimsho
12-21-07, 12:51 PM
Yeah...where is this coming from again? I've heard that's not from a well respected source...

NormV
12-21-07, 12:55 PM
The next V will be slightly over 500 but not 550hp.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PONTIAC, Mich. – When it arrives next summer, the 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 will be the most powerful and fastest production car ever produced by General Motors, with performance enabled by a new, supercharged 6.2L LS9 small-block V-8 engine.

Incorporating the engineering experience already found in the Corvette Z06’s LS7 engine and the new-for-2008 6.2L LS3 of the Corvette, GM Powertain is targeting 100 horsepower per liter for the LS9, or 620 horsepower (462 kW), and approximately 595 lb.-ft. of torque (807 Nm); final SAE-certified power levels will be available in early March 2008.

It is, indeed, the ultimate small-block engine for the ultimate Corvette.

“When you experience the LS9 in the Corvette ZR1, the terms performance and refinement take on a new meaning,” said Tom Stephens, group vice president for GM Powertrain and Quality. “The LS9 demonstrates an outstanding performance range, with smooth driveability at low speeds, and surprisingly fierce performance when the customer wants more power.”

The enabler of the LS9’s performance is a new, large positive-displacement Roots-type supercharger – with a unique four-lobe design – developed for the engine by Eaton. It is teamed with an integrated charge cooling system that reduces inlet air temperature for maximum performance. The LS9 represents the first of several new, supercharged small-block engines that will be introduced in GM vehicles in the near future, each using superchargers of similar design.

“The small-block V-8 once again demonstrates it boundless horsepower potential, versatile design and an architecture with proven quality, durability and reliability,” said Stephens. “We haven’t yet realized the small-block’s performance potential.”

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=42156

jasaero
12-21-07, 01:44 PM
Never really thought it would be 600hp or more anyhow. My opinion is though that it could be within 50hp of this engine. I really think all three Supercharged engines are going to be north of 500hp being that the LS3 is ~430hp. My guess is that LS8 will be low 500's with LSA getting closer to the mid or more 500's and we now know LS9 is 620hp. The 620hp isn't SAE figure though and is probably conservative. I figure 625-635hp once SAE numbers are in on it.

Jon
12-22-07, 04:04 AM
Right here.

I have faith in Lutz. He promised a car that would suck the doors off the M5 with unexpectedly high power levels.

With the current M5 coming in at 500hp, and having been around for a couple years, it'd be stupid for GM to build a heavy V with only low 500hp.

Jpjr
12-22-07, 04:07 PM
Well the M5 is not a light car by any means. A 500-525hp Caddy with manual trans could probably suck its doors off.

The key is hp/Liter. If you expect the ZR1 to come in around 100hp/L (S/C), then the Caddy will be under that, but only due to detuning since its going to be a similar small block in size. Again all you will need to do is turn up the boost and away you go.

Jon
12-22-07, 04:11 PM
Well the M5 is not a light car by any means. A 500-525hp Caddy with manual trans could probably suck its doors off.

The key is hp/Liter. If you expect the ZR1 to come in around 100hp/L (S/C), then the Caddy will be under that, but only due to detuning since its going to be a similar small block in size. Again all you will need to do is turn up the boost and away you go.
But the '08 CTS is already heavy. The V will probably weigh in even higher.

onebadcad
12-24-07, 05:15 PM
Cadillac Forums: So now does anyone still think the CTS-V will be 600 hp?




Definitely, 600+BHP, with a pulley swap:sneaky::devil::D;):cloud9::yup:.

HiTechRV
12-25-07, 12:04 AM
No way it will be 600 stock, if the hand built LS9 is only going to be a touch over that hand built. But easily modifiable to 600? Sure.

Florian
12-25-07, 10:51 PM
Cadillac Forums: So now does anyone still think the CTS-V will be 600 hp?




Definitely, 600+BHP, with a pulley swap:sneaky::devil::D;):cloud9::yup:.

good luck gettin that pulley off. If its anything like the STS-v w/a completely integrated pulley assembly that you cannot remove, youre in for a bit of a wake up.


F

onebadcad
12-26-07, 12:52 PM
Was not anticipating the pulley being integrated, I hope a vendor will figure a way to modify the boost. If not, still a great car that unmodded will kick arse. Was this done deliberately to stop modders, or done to make the unit more efficient/safer/better, etc... ???

annie
12-26-07, 04:30 PM
Right here.

I have faith in Lutz. He promised a car that would suck the doors off the M5 with unexpectedly high power levels.

With the current M5 coming in at 500hp, and having been around for a couple years, it'd be stupid for GM to build a heavy V with only low 500hp.


+1

If it is not 600 I think it will be closer to 600 than 550.

b4z
12-27-07, 11:39 AM
They may lieave the intercoolers off the CTS-V and lower the hp from the 620+HP range to 550 hp or so.

The LS9 in the Vette has the intercoolers and along with the supercharger assembly adds 100lbs to the front end.

So the CTS-V will probably weigh an easy 4000lbs unless measures are taken to reduce front end weight thru aluminum or carbon fiber.

CVP33
12-28-07, 08:23 PM
Horsepower is not what will get this beast going, torque is. My hope is that GM will deliver the same ZR1 motor with the nearly 600ft/lbs of torque and dial back the horsepower like they did with the GEN1 V's. They can keep the engine exactly the same for ease of production as a V will never run down a ZR1. There is some history here as our first GEN1's lost a few ponies supposedly to exhaust routing vs. the Z06's LS6.

As far as beating the M5, that really won't be a problem. Sure it makes 507HP, but at a stratospheric 7,750 rpms. And it's torque is only 384ft/lbs again at a very high 6,100 rpms. The V's power curve will be broader, flatter, and certainly stronger and easier to maintain vs. trying to keep the revs up in the M5. The M5 weighs 4,050 lbs. so it's a porker as well. Now for Lutz's dream to become a reality here's the performance benchmarks they'll have to hit:

0-60mph = 4.1 seconds
0-100mph = 9.5 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.4 sec@116
Top Speed = 155mph (limited)
Lateral G's = .87g
Braking 60-0mph = 120 ft.

Let's take these one by one.

Acceleration is about launching. Launching is about torque and traction. If GM fixes the rear diff, as in stronger with no wheel hop they're nearly there already with 400hp. Let's face it, if you could power launch the current V you'd be hitting 12.8's in the 1/4 already. 12.4's are easily within reach with another 100hp+ and 100ft/lbs+.

Top Speed - GM has shown no predisposition to top speed limiting it's vehicles. I doubt highly that they'll start with the CTS-V. Get ready for 185mph+ easy. (If a 425hp Chrysler can hit 174mph, the new V's got to be good for 190mph)

Handling has always been a strong point of the V. .90g's are merely a good set of tires away. I bet the new CTS-V gets an even better suspension (if that's possible), maybe something derived from their SCCA Championships and the new revised Goodyear F1.

Braking - The current brakes are already stellar, needing only 118ft. to stop from 60'. I'd bet here too that Brembo has an upgrade and don't underestimate what a great tire can do here as well. With the heavier car, the braking distance will stay at 118'.

If you're looking for the test mule to all this power, chassis tuning, component testing prior to the CTS-V.........read this link.

http://www.fast-autos.net/vehicles/Cadillac/2005/STS_SAE_100/

Supercharged LS2
505hp @ 5,600 rpms
520ft/lbs. @ 3,600 rpms
6L90E - 6 speed automatic with paddle shift
Revised rear differential

V-Smooth
12-29-07, 03:33 AM
Cadillac Forums: So now does anyone still think the CTS-V will be 600 hp?




Definitely, 600+BHP, with a pulley swap:sneaky::devil::D;):cloud9::yup:.


my thoughts exactly :cool2:

lawfive
12-29-07, 03:41 PM
Modding has been fun, but I'd definitely keep a new V bone stock. Except possibly a tune. And a maybe pulley swap when someone figures out how to do that without screwing something up. And body color powder coating for the chrome. And !amber. And a shift kit. Hawk pads. Cross-drilled rotors. CAI.

Oh shit...

Lord Cadillac
12-29-07, 03:49 PM
Modding has been fun, but I'd definitely keep a new V bone stock. Except possibly a tune. And a maybe pulley swap when someone figures out how to do that without screwing something up. And body color powder coating for the chrome. And !amber. And a shift kit. Hawk pads. Cross-drilled rotors. CAI.

Oh shit...
If there was a "post of the day", I think this would be it. :p

Florian
01-02-08, 04:18 PM
my thoughts exactly :cool2:

the s/c pulley is a part of the shaft assembly, its integral, you cannot just swap the sc pulley w/o redoing the whole SC drive shaft assy. You can however make the underdrive pulley larger to spin it faster...


F

Dr. Design
01-02-08, 05:52 PM
Hello,
I donít think they would leave out the intercooler. When corporate builds forced induction motors they are always concerned about heat and efficiency. They would most definitely have the intercooler integrated into the blower. Its a really good design and offers great runner length. They are also using stack plate intercoolers vs. the old laminova cooling rods that are in the 4.4 N* Engine. This will help a great deal!

They are using carbon on the CTS-V, how much, who knows.

As for changing out the pulley....Have fun with that one. It is a non serviceable part that would require you to machine the non serviceable bolt out of the pulley. There are also a bunch of non-serviceable parts on the blower that need to be taken care of with extreme caution. If you damage anything on the blower you will be required to purchase an entire new blower assembly. Furthermore there is the electronics side of the equation. It would be too easy for the computer to accept the extra 2-3 psi you throw at it and not raise any red flags, right? We have a lot of data on how Cadillac manages the boost on these vehicles. The good news is, we have already started working on a few designs for this new application. Just thought we would give a little bit of helpful information.

Thanks,

Dr. Design




They may lieave the intercoolers off the CTS-V and lower the hp from the 620+HP range to 550 hp or so.

The LS9 in the Vette has the intercoolers and along with the supercharger assembly adds 100lbs to the front end.

So the CTS-V will probably weigh an easy 4000lbs unless measures are taken to reduce front end weight thru aluminum or carbon fiber.

LV_V
01-02-08, 06:53 PM
I am pretty sure the N* is not the LS. How can you be so sure about the specifics of the pulley assembly when no details have been released? Not saying you are wrong, simply hoping for the best :)

Dr. Design
01-02-08, 07:13 PM
Hello,
Let's just say we have a few friends in Detroit, Wixom, Lansing, etc... Our information is good. Plus we have a great deal of research and development with the Cadillac engines as well as other GM motors. Remember, nothing has been "formally" released....Certainly hope for the best, just wanted to make sure you have a small dose of reality for this new motor. If GM sticks to their typical program, they left about 25-30% on the table. Just have to be smarter than the hurdles they put in place to keep you from getting it unlocked!

Thanks,





I am pretty sure the N* is not the LS. How can you be so sure about the specifics of the pulley assembly when no details have been released? Not saying you are wrong, simply hoping for the best :)

lawfive
01-06-08, 03:29 AM
Here's a nice possible leak from Digital Corvettes:

550 HP

550 torque

TR6060 six speed manual (same as the ZR1)

6L90 six speed automatic (same as XLR-V and STS)

No AWD

19" wheels

PS2 tires

dqw1
01-06-08, 04:01 PM
Law, I really hope that's correct.

lawfive
01-06-08, 04:29 PM
You and me both, bro.

heavymetals
01-06-08, 11:26 PM
I heard the rear is very similar to the Vette but not billet.

lawfive
01-07-08, 01:41 PM
Here's a nice possible leak from Digital Corvettes:

550 HP

550 torque

TR6060 six speed manual (same as the ZR1)

6L90 six speed automatic (same as XLR-V and STS)

No AWD

19" wheels

PS2 tires


Guys, the past accuracy of the leaker has been verified by Florian, and the numbers above have been verified by another reputable source that you all know.

Kadonny
01-07-08, 02:06 PM
Guys, the past accuracy of the leaker has been verified by Florian, and the numbers above have been verified by another reputable source that you all know.


If so, then bravo GM. With that torque this car should kick some arse.

lawfive
01-07-08, 05:40 PM
Latest leak from DigitalCorvettes: magnetic ride control is likely.

lawfive
01-07-08, 05:40 PM
Urby, can we link to that forum?

Dr Chill
01-08-08, 01:08 AM
I'm starting to get excited.

TheRooster
01-08-08, 07:31 PM
Read the other post and you will really be excited. Easily 650 HP with a pulley change, CAI and tune. :)

csp3000
01-08-08, 11:03 PM
Read the other post and you will really be excited. Easily 650 HP with a pulley change, CAI and tune. :)

What other post and where?