: Love for the big Diesels, especially the two stroke Detroits...



I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-21-07, 01:27 AM
I've spent a lot of my free time this last week browsing Youtube for good diesel videos. Here's some good ones. I dunno why, but I've always liked big Diesels...just the sound, the smoke, the feel, the power the ruggedness, etc etc


6V92 Detroit
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Or one of these: 6V92TA Detroit
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8V53t (T for Turbo)
6Bbq8X2kAw8&feature=related

8V92
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The cool thing about the old Detroits, or atleast some of them, was they were a two stroke design, and they were Supercharged...not the usual turbo. And they just sound soooo coool.

The old 6.5L GM motor...another Detroit Diesel engine
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Mack with the Air Start
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Kenworth air start
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I don't even know where this came from, but it's awesome. The more soot, the better.
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G7qgDauSjhk&feature=related

My_favorite_Brougham
12-21-07, 02:10 AM
Yeah I was just on a train yesterday. Kind of holiday old-timey thing and it was a diesel electric engine. I sure did like that smooth low rumble of the two-strokes. I wish could get a Caddy that sounded like that!

Night Wolf
12-21-07, 08:06 AM
This is one of the two tugs we tow the planes with. They are both made by Eagle Industral Vehicles. This one is an I4 non-turbo diesel I don't know who makes it tho, I've been wondering but don't know enough about diesels to look and see. The other is a gas I4 Chrysler OHC that runs really bad, probably cause the carb is shot. Besides the gas tug running bad, the power steering is really heavy (becomes a pain) and the throttle pedal is really annoying because it pivots 1/3 the way up the pedal, and you gotta push the very bottom of it, the diesel tug has nice light power steering and the throttle pedal is normal feeling. Both are 4wd, 3spd auto. The diesel is my favorite not only because of the mentioned reasons, but I like the way it sounds.... which is really cool :)

I like the Cummins I6 in the RAM too, my parents are coming up to visit today and they are taking the RAM because they are towing my small utility trailer to my house.

I've always liked diesels though... interesting to note that VW TDi get 45mpg.... with no hybrid or anything. If I wanted a car for gas mileage, that would be the way I'd go.

Our diesel tug at work:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/misc/cid_785.jpg

dkozloski
12-21-07, 09:47 AM
This is one of the two tugs we tow the planes with. They are both made by Eagle Industral Vehicles. This one is an I4 non-turbo diesel I don't know who makes it tho, I've been wondering but don't know enough about diesels to look and see. The other is a gas I4 Chrysler OHC that runs really bad, probably cause the carb is shot. Besides the gas tug running bad, the power steering is really heavy (becomes a pain) and the throttle pedal is really annoying because it pivots 1/3 the way up the pedal, and you gotta push the very bottom of it, the diesel tug has nice light power steering and the throttle pedal is normal feeling. Both are 4wd, 3spd auto. The diesel is my favorite not only because of the mentioned reasons, but I like the way it sounds.... which is really cool :)

I like the Cummins I6 in the RAM too, my parents are coming up to visit today and they are taking the RAM because they are towing my small utility trailer to my house.

I've always liked diesels though... interesting to note that VW TDi get 45mpg.... with no hybrid or anything. If I wanted a car for gas mileage, that would be the way I'd go.

Our diesel tug at work:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/misc/cid_785.jpg
Stewart and Stevenson forever.

Night Wolf
12-21-07, 10:19 AM
That one is Eagle Industrial Truck. does S&S own them?

Our other "Tug" (actually Tug brand) has an S&S sticker on it, that is the baggage-type Tug's... its RWD with a Ford I6 gas engine, odd transmission, only 2spd and only shifter position is F, N, R... no park.

We have "Big Bertha" The hours meter stopped working at 7,9xxhrs, that thing has a Chrysler 360, RWD and dualie.... it sounds really good, like a mild muscle car :) Thats the only other tug we use to tow the planes, but thats only if the other two are broken (as they sometimes are... our GSE are lazy) Otherwise it just sits outside unused most the time.

but, those two Eagle tugs are neat, the engine sits oppisite the seat, so it is offset, has a standard PRN321 shifter, its only 4wd, has leaf springs (very stiff) I never really got up close with any of these things before working here, so I took a good look at it... pretty neat IMO.

If you look outside the hanger in that picture, you can see the Linde diesel fork lift (our bigest one), to the left of that is "Bertha" the really old S&S tug, then to the left of that is the other Eagle tug with the crappy Chrysler gas 4cyl.

Submariner409
12-21-07, 10:21 AM
Work your way into a railroad yard and see if you can get a look at the engines in a diesel-electric A unit (cab forward) or B unit (engines and motors only).

A lot of the engines are Fairbanks Morse or GE 10 cylinder/20 piston vertically opposed units (upper and lower crankshafts linked through a tower drive) pulling around 1680 hp with unearthly torque. They idle all day at 80-100 rpm and redline at 850. The GM blower size on these things is awesome, and they turn a generator half as big as a Sevillr. Run the engine up to 450 on the governor,vary the electrical load (the "throttle") to the motors....smoooooth power to pull a LOT of train.

That diesel boat ^^^ up there had 4 such units. Others also used V-16 GM diesel electric units. When you qualified in submarines you had to be able to line up and air start all 4 units from cold - blindfolded. The overboard cooling water discharge went into each muffler through a spray ring to control heat and noise. Each exhaust pipe was 12" and the muffler would hold a goodsized man easily.

dkozloski
12-21-07, 10:24 AM
That one is Eagle Industrial Truck. does S&S own them?

Our other "Tug" (actually Tug brand) has an S&S sticker on it, that is the baggage-type Tug's... its RWD with a Ford I6 gas engine, odd transmission, only 2spd and only shifter position is F, N, R... no park.

We have "Big Bertha" The hours meter stopped working at 7,9xxhrs, that thing has a Chrysler 360, RWD and dualie.... it sounds really good, like a mild muscle car :) Thats the only other tug we use to tow the planes, but thats only if the other two are broken (as they sometimes are... our GSE are lazy) Otherwise it just sits outside unused most the time.

but, those two Eagle tugs are neat, the engine sits oppisite the seat, so it is offset, has a standard PRN321 shifter, its only 4wd, has leaf springs (very stiff) I never really got up close with any of these things before working here, so I took a good look at it... pretty neat IMO.

If you look outside the hanger in that picture, you can see the Linde diesel fork lift (our bigest one), to the left of that is "Bertha" the really old S&S tug, then to the left of that is the other Eagle tug with the crappy Chrysler gas 4cyl.
Stewart & Stevenson builds the big stuff for towing wide bodies. The regional airline I worked for provided inside storage for an S&S wide body cargo container handler that was bigger than a lot of homes.

Night Wolf
12-21-07, 10:25 AM
Trains always interested me too... actually as a kid, that was what I was first interested in, and the diesel-electric powertain is really awesome.

There is a rail road right outside the hanger, its freight and the train must go by a few times a night, so its pretty cool watching it, tho now its just another part of the job.

dkozloski
12-21-07, 10:36 AM
When I was a kid they used a steam engine to switch cars in the railroad yards across the river. I stayed awake many nights listening to the chuff, chuff and the whistle as they shunted the cars around. After you see the majesty and grandeur of a big steam locomotive you wouldn't walk across the street for a diesel.

Submariner409
12-21-07, 10:38 AM
Think of the technical problems involved with isolating 4 diesel electric units, oil, water, fuel, air, exhaust, from outside sea pressure which, in a WW II boat, reached over 300 psi on occasion.......(not to mention the rest of the boat's systems), and we had to memorize and draw every inch, wire, valve, switch, pipe of it all.

dkozloski
12-21-07, 10:58 AM
Think of the technical problems involved with isolating 4 diesel electric units, oil, water, fuel, air, exhaust, from outside sea pressure which, in a WW II boat, reached over 300 psi on occasion.......(not to mention the rest of the boat's systems), and we had to memorize and draw every inch, wire, valve, switch, pipe of it all.
It impressed me that EVERYBODY had to graduate from sub school if they were going to ride the boats.

Cadillacboy
12-21-07, 11:38 AM
Cool videos, I gotta love those engines too

aamusls06
12-21-07, 12:38 PM
We've got an old school Brigidaer(sp?) in Arkansas that we use as a bean truck.

But, theres nothing better than smell of a John Deere tractor cranking up on a summer morning. The sound of the JD 4960 when I first start her. Then running her through the field. I also love the JD combines too. We got a 9600 combine. Thing drives like a huge Cadillac.

Stoneage_Caddy
12-21-07, 08:27 PM
when i worked for detroit diesel we had a dyno room ...usually every wensday they were dynoing a fresh rebuild of a 2 stroke ....the nastyiest of the nasty was the 12v71 , it would flat shake the foundation as it got into the powerband ...the smoke could be seen from a mile up the road ...more then once coming in for work i would think the place caught fire ....

I graduated top honors for the 2 stroke detroit part of military firetruck school , coarse i did the same thing for the 6.2-6.5 school , as much as i hated the ol roosamaster pumps i did have a knack for them ...

I wished i had more time to tinker with the 500 inch 8.2 fuel pincher diesel ....i still think it had some potential that was never capitalized on ....

the ol 2 strokes are a big passion of mine , but youll never get me to work on them for a living ...like them too much for that ...

the ol detroit was just another example of the oddities that GM came up with/bought over the years (they started out life as "gray marine" engine)...detroit now finds itself under mercedes benz ...very sad ....the days are gone , 2 stroke detroiter production ended a couple years ago ....now they sling the penske era series 60 inline six , the series 40 (a navistar), and a slew of rebaged italaian RM engines and meercedes units ....tho due to the demand for the ol 2 stroke parts support has never ceased .....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-21-07, 08:31 PM
Oh, they were owned by GM? Well that explains a lot.

Stoneage_Caddy
12-21-07, 08:34 PM
heres some links that i enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8MkBQLU36s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fS43WnFGWs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3qyR2z8xEs&feature=related

Stoneage_Caddy
12-21-07, 08:56 PM
and as far as superchargeing and the 2 stroke detroit ......well all 2 stroke detroits had a blower .....but it wasnt for what you think ....

2 stroke detroits dont have intake valves ...just 4 exaust valves...so they dont generate vaccum to pull air in ...insated it has to be "blown" into the cylander thru the port that ran the circumfrance of the cylnder when the piston uncovered it...hence the device to blow air into the cylnder was a "blower" ....which is also where your 6-71 blower comes from ...some ol hotroder thought it was a good idea to strap the blower taken from a 6-71 detroit and toss it on a v8 ....still to this day the desgin of the supercharger on any top fuel drag car is directly related to the old detroit design blowers ....the names for the blowers are from the engine they were stolen from , as you have 2-71 3-71 ,4-71 , 6-71 ,8-71 blowers ....the 8-71 being the biggest ....the 12v and larger engines were basicly 2 of the 6 or 8 cylander engines joined together ...

so in the last days of the 2 strokes we saw 8v92TTA engines , thats a v8 2 stroke with 92 cubes per cylander with twin turbos feeding the blower ....so technicly it had not only turbos , but also had a "supercharger"

the detriots also didnt have "injection pumps" in the classic sense , they had a "unit" injector , which when acted on by a rocker arm compessed the fuel to the right pressure , and once to the coreect pressure it would pop the injector open and spary the fuel into the cylander ....a small arm off the injector controlled flow which controlled engine speed ...all going on inside the valve covers ....it was pretty critical to have the "lash" on these guys set good , or the damned thing would run pretty sour

c5 rv
12-21-07, 09:58 PM
A buddy of mine has an early 70s Hatteras 41? DCMY with a pair of 671s. He's a fan of the engines, but curses them too. He said he needs a rebuild soon and the cost is about $1K per cylinder. He berths it in Cheboygan, MI and takes it out only a few times every summer. It's mainly their summer "cabin".

He also has a 1953 Chris Craft DCFB with twin Hercules gas that has been on the cradle for years needing lots of TLC.

dkozloski
12-21-07, 09:59 PM
The 53 series were the most fun because they were a practical size. A 4-53 was about right for a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup. There was a marine version that was 150HP turboed. A 3-53 was good for a smaller pickup. I put a 2-53 in a 1/2 ton aluminum step van using a three speed with overdrive transmission set up so you could get overdrive in all the gears. It was great for running around town. I still have a bell housing in my basement that will mate a 53 series engine to a Chevy transmission. The 53 series blower was rubber lined and was easier to set up the clearances. Straight 53s had two exhaust valves /cyl and 53Ns had 4/cyl and would turn up tighter. In the early 70's a 4-53N new was less than $2000 fan to flywheel but they were allocated and very hard to find. A neat accessory was a hydraulic starter. There was a hand pump that would pump up pressure in an accumulator then you would dump the pressure into the hydraulic starter motor. When the engine started there was a engine driven pump that charged the accumulator for the next start. You didn't need a battery at all to get it going.

creeker
12-21-07, 11:12 PM
It impressed me that EVERYBODY had to graduate from sub school if they were going to ride the boats.

I guess it's like most jobs, just more so,you start at the bottom and work your way to the top.

Stoneage_Caddy
12-21-07, 11:18 PM
The 53 series were the most fun because they were a practical size. A 4-53 was about right for a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup. There was a marine version that was 150HP turboed. A 3-53 was good for a smaller pickup. I put a 2-53 in a 1/2 ton aluminum step van using a three speed with overdrive transmission set up so you could get overdrive in all the gears. It was great for running around town. I still have a bell housing in my basement that will mate a 53 series engine to a Chevy transmission. The 53 series blower was rubber lined and was easier to set up the clearances. Straight 53s had two exhaust valves /cyl and 53Ns had 4/cyl and would turn up tighter. In the early 70's a 4-53N new was less than $2000 fan to flywheel but they were allocated and very hard to find. A neat accessory was a hydraulic starter. There was a hand pump that would pump up pressure in an accumulator then you would dump the pressure into the hydraulic starter motor. When the engine started there was a engine driven pump that charged the accumulator for the next start. You didn't need a battery at all to get it going.

the old years i never got to hear much about , i didnt know they had turbo 53 series engines

Sinister Angel
12-21-07, 11:55 PM
I miss being out on the fred white sometimes...

2x EMD 20-645-E7s rigged to a Faulk reduction gear. 3600 HP at 900 RPM each. Had a variable pitch prop, too. But I digress.

20 Cylinders, 645 Cu Inches per cylinder. Unit injectors, two stroke with 4 exhaust valves. E7 designated a turbocharged model, however, the turbo isn't strictly like you would think. It's located at the rear of the engine. When the engine is below a certain RPM (basically, idling) the turbo is connected to the geartrain in the back via a centrifugal clutch. So it's almost like a super and turbocharger hybrid. It's neat shit.

Sinister Angel
12-21-07, 11:56 PM
Oh yeah, if I recall they also had hydraulic lash adjusters. Jacketed liners, too.

slk230mb
12-22-07, 08:56 AM
My dads 1995 GMC Suburban had the 6.5L turbo diesel. That thing could tow a small village.

Stoneage_Caddy
12-23-07, 12:19 PM
in some countrys a suburban IS a small village

DaveSmed
12-23-07, 06:32 PM
They even turboed the 3-53s.

And dkozloski, +1 on the Stewart and Stevenson forever. Great equipment.

Night Wolf, that tug just has a plain old C6 industrial underneath, same thing you would find in a medium duty ford, with the E-brake on the back of the trans. It has PRND21, but the Morse shifter doesn't let you select it. You could get a huge array of engines in those things from oil cooled Deutz diesels (no radiator or coolant saves a good bit of room and maintenance) To Perkins, to Hercules, to Onan (bought by Cummins), Cummins, etc....

See if you can grab a pic of the engine in the Eagle pushback, i'm curious as to what it is.

Oh yea, on that Tug, pop the hood and look under the carb. There's probably an aluminum spacer, might be solid, might have a screw adjustment on it. If your bored at work one day, take it out and pitch it. Thats the governor. That Tug will do wheelstands like it's nothing. (it might already if you powerbrake it)

Sinister Angel
12-23-07, 07:38 PM
Oh yea, on that Tug, pop the hood and look under the carb. There's probably an aluminum spacer, might be solid, might have a screw adjustment on it. If your bored at work one day, take it out and pitch it. Thats the governor. That Tug will do wheelstands like it's nothing. (it might already if you powerbrake it)

Shit, I wasn't sure how those damn Tugs were governed. One of our tugs we could get to hop a bit by reving it and slamming it in gear. The beltloaders were our fastest equipment though.

dkozloski
12-23-07, 10:18 PM
They even turboed the 3-53s.

And dkozloski, +1 on the Stewart and Stevenson forever. Great equipment.

Night Wolf, that tug just has a plain old C6 industrial underneath, same thing you would find in a medium duty ford, with the E-brake on the back of the trans. It has PRND21, but the Morse shifter doesn't let you select it. You could get a huge array of engines in those things from oil cooled Deutz diesels (no radiator or coolant saves a good bit of room and maintenance) To Perkins, to Hercules, to Onan (bought by Cummins), Cummins, etc....

See if you can grab a pic of the engine in the Eagle pushback, i'm curious as to what it is.

Oh yea, on that Tug, pop the hood and look under the carb. There's probably an aluminum spacer, might be solid, might have a screw adjustment on it. If your bored at work one day, take it out and pitch it. Thats the governor. That Tug will do wheelstands like it's nothing. (it might already if you powerbrake it)
Deutz diesels have coolant only it's oil. They run the engine oil through the cooling jackets as well as the engine and then to a huge oil cooler. Diesels are efficient enough that you can get away with it. It's really freaky to have engine oil running through the interior heater in a Bobcat skidsteer. They also have the cutest little turbochargers you've ever seen. They look like just the right size for a motorcycle.

96Fleetwood
12-23-07, 11:30 PM
Ah, the days of having my CDL. I used to help with the family business after college and drove some of the Freightliner & International rigs we had. Funny thing is that the new trucks they bought last year are all push button automatics and more creature comforts than most cars!

DaveSmed
12-24-07, 02:29 AM
That governor applies to most industrial Ford gas engines. Belt loaders do haul ass, we ended up with some Perkins turbo engines for a service retrofit, and we clocked them in the towtruck at 65-70 wound out. Scary!

Those Deutz are a good design, bit odd, but fairly durable. Wish they were easier to bleed though when they run it out of fuel on an almost daily basis. They take a lot of oil too for an oil change, and the oil through the heater core causes some issues when someone kicks the heater, and sends the fan into the core. Thats an impressive mess.

dkozloski
12-24-07, 03:22 AM
That governor applies to most industrial Ford gas engines. Belt loaders do haul ass, we ended up with some Perkins turbo engines for a service retrofit, and we clocked them in the towtruck at 65-70 wound out. Scary!

Those Deutz are a good design, bit odd, but fairly durable. Wish they were easier to bleed though when they run it out of fuel on an almost daily basis. They take a lot of oil too for an oil change, and the oil through the heater core causes some issues when someone kicks the heater, and sends the fan into the core. Thats an impressive mess.
The ramp rats at Barrow, Alaska actually ran a Bobcat out of oil and spun a rod bearing with a heater leak. We had the throw welded up and reground and it's still running. They couldn't figure out where all the oil on the warehouse floor was coming from. Those were some weird guys. They were from American Samoa and they lived in Barrow because it was the only place they could find to live in the world where their relatives from home wouldn't move in on them. After they burned the building down we fired them all. To fix the rod on the Bobcat it cost $9000 just to fly the thing to Fairbanks to fix it and fly it back because there is no road.

Sinister Angel
12-24-07, 04:55 AM
That governor applies to most industrial Ford gas engines. Belt loaders do haul ass, we ended up with some Perkins turbo engines for a service retrofit, and we clocked them in the towtruck at 65-70 wound out. Scary!


That's hilarious! Me and a buddy of mine would do some crazy shit driving over to the fuel farm (other side of the field) sometimes. One time I was towing the GPU over to the fuel farm, and he drove up and flicked it on, and then subsequently from idle to run. I'm sure the cats up in the tower enjoying a thorough case of "What the f*ck?!?" when they saw the plume of smoke roll off the GPU when it went to run. Ahh yes, good Ol' Davco with a Cummins. Hell, working at the airport was good times all around.