: HELP!! Fuel Rail Recall Problems 1996 Seville



hilliss
12-17-07, 05:07 PM
I have a 1996 Seville - fuel rail was checked in Sept 2004 under recall and had no issues at that time. Now, the fuel rail springs leaks at different locations.... I replaced two sections on my own as I have had the Cadillac Dealer tell me that unless Cadillac re-opens my VIN they cannot do the work under warranty. And this morning Cadillac tells me that their obligation was only to check the fuel rail once.

I read them the NHTSA Recall Bulletin, but they said they could do nothing for me.

The recall clearly states they will replace the rail with the SS rail.... any suggestions or has anybody else had this problem - and how did you solve it? I can change it myself, at my own cost... but this should be their responsibility and I want them to own up and take care of it....

Thanks
Mark

Ranger
12-17-07, 06:04 PM
Call GM. This is a safety recall and I don't believe that there is an expiration date.

hilliss
12-17-07, 06:32 PM
Thanks - Actually started with Cadillac this morning (GM- not the local dealer), and they were the ones telling me their only duty was to inspect the fuel rails once. They offered to assistance, even after I read them the NHTSA language. Do you have a number direct to GM which would allow me to by-pass the Cadillac division and move this up the chain??

Ranger
12-17-07, 07:08 PM
1-800-458-8006

eldorado1
12-17-07, 08:36 PM
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I bet your dealer told GM they replaced your fuel rail, and pocketed the labor charge and stainless fuel rail. Find another dealer and have them look it up.

AJxtcman
12-17-07, 09:29 PM
All of the 1996 fuel rails need to be replaced!
This is the part that might confuse some.
All the 1996 fuel rails had NO printing on them when they left the factory!
If the fuel rail was replaced between the time it was built in 1995 and the time the recall was performed in 2004. The replacement rail would have printing on it. This is the same rail used and NOT recalled on 1998 and 1999 cars.
If the had NO printing we installed a new Stainless rail
If the rail had Printing on it, then it was already replaced!

If your rail has printing on it and it cracked I may have big problems. I am running higher fuel pressure in my car:eek:

AJxtcman
12-17-07, 09:31 PM
if you PM me your VIN I can check to see if the dealer said they inspected it or replaced it.

hilliss
12-17-07, 09:44 PM
AJxtcman -
Evidently I am too new to PM anybody (tells me I have to have 20 posts).
VIN: 1G6KS52YXTU832447
Appreciate any help on this.

hilliss
12-17-07, 09:54 PM
No printing - these are the black nylon (pre-recall) rails. I have had to cut two out (the leaking sections) and replace with fuel line and clamps (would be easier with much smaller hands and more flexible line). I can get the rails (post recall SS rails) - but really ticks me off, and I think this is Caddy's responsibility to fix this right.

hilliss
12-17-07, 09:55 PM
AJxtcman
VIN: 1G6KS52YXTU832447
If it also documents who allegedly did the recall service.... I would love to know, as well as what they allegedly did.
My email is hilliss73@aol.com

Ranger
12-17-07, 10:21 PM
Cadillac Dealer tell me that unless Cadillac re-opens my VIN they cannot do the work under warranty. And this morning Cadillac tells me that their obligation was only to check the fuel rail once.

I read them the NHTSA Recall Bulletin, but they said they could do nothing for me.
Ask them for something in writing that explains that just in case your car goes up in smoke and watch their attitude change.

creeker
12-17-07, 11:50 PM
No printing - these are the black nylon (pre-recall) rails. I have had to cut two out (the leaking sections) and replace with fuel line and clamps (would be easier with much smaller hands and more flexible line). I can get the rails (post recall SS rails) - but really ticks me off, and I think this is Caddy's responsibility to fix this right.

I emailed g.m. of canada about my 97 sts,they said they dont have any record of a recall for my car,

did you happen to get the cost of s.s. rails?.

Ranger
12-18-07, 12:32 AM
The recall was for the U.S. only I believe.

creeker
12-18-07, 12:52 AM
The recall was for the U.S. only I believe.

Hello ranger,we talked about this before,it was for u.s. only,but I was just wondering what the s.s. fuel rails cost was.

hilliss
12-18-07, 08:44 AM
$105 try the site below.... you do NOT have to replace the FPR (fuel pressure regulator) the new rail will work with your old FPR. ACDelco part # 12499782
oehq.com

ewill3rd
12-18-07, 09:18 AM
The recall is to "inspect" the rail and replace it if the proper markings are not visible.
If the print is not on the lines and they didn't replace it they did the recall improperly and you need to call GM and explain the situation to them.
If the rail should have been replaced and wasn't then the dealer is liable in my view.

At any rate, replacing segments is a horrible idea, my guess is you are doing it with fuel hose and clamps, that is deadly. Stop it and buy the fuel rail before someone gets hurt. If you have to battle with GM about this then keep your receipts and your old parts and force them to reimburse you. Take photos of the rails leaking if it springs another one. Stop patching it and fix it right.
Keep a log of the phone calls you make, the person you talked to and what was said.

hilliss
12-18-07, 10:18 AM
Just got back from the dealership.... they confirmed there is no ss rail on my car (duh!). But could not do anything without an open service campaign unless I pay for it ($300). Called Cadillac back (800) 458-8006 - they in turn called the dealership to confirm there was no ss rail on the car. Then got back on the line, and stated they could not provide me with anything in writing, but stated my car would not qualify for the recall. They stated the inspection done 9/13/2004 was their only responsibility. I again read the NHTSA campaign, and they advised they could not pull this up. They further stated, according to my VIN, it did not meet the recall. So I read the vin again which states VIN 8 "Y" and "9" are recall vehicles. My 8th digit is "Y". I can get this rail myself and install - not a problem - but the principle of this is really ticking me off. Anybody know how to track down a regional Caddy rep in the Kentucky area?? or any other suggestions??

RippyPartsDept
12-18-07, 11:01 AM
sounds like you got screwed by the tech who did the 'inspection' back in '04
and now the dealer is screwing you again...
sorry to hear about this... hope you get it straightened out without any incident

ewill3rd
12-18-07, 11:41 AM
It sounds to me like the tech "inspected" the rail for leaks and didn't find any instead of inspecting for the print on the pipes and replacing it.
Ask GM how they inspected a fuel rail under the recall that has suspect parts that were not replaced.
The pipes should be clearly labeled as such:


Remove the acoustic engine cover and inspect the fuel rail for replacement qualification.
2.1. If the fuel rail has the words "GM213M Type F" or "M-Bond" written on the tubing with a dot ink-jet type white/yellow printing, it is a service fuel rail with the M-Bond tubing and does not need replacement. Submit a claim for inspect only and close the recall.

2.2. If the fuel rail is a stainless steel material, it is a service fuel rail and does not need replacement. Submit a claim for inspect only and close the recall.

2.3. If the words "GM213M Type F" or "M-Bond" are not clearly readable on the tubing or the rail is not constructed of stainless steel, the fuel rail requires replacement. Continue with the fuel rail removal and replacement procedure.


If you do not see the markings on the pipe then the inspection was not done properly.
GM has purged the system since that recall was done so it doesn't show that it needed to be done, but they submitted the labor operation for the recall, got paid, and your VIN falls within the breakpoints of the affected vehicles. You need to have a sit down with the service manager who needs to call his AVM to get this handled.
It is going to be an uphill battle.

hilliss
12-18-07, 05:51 PM
That is what I am seeing. The GM reps cannot even tell me what was billed, or the record notes from the service date of 9/14/2004. The initial inspection was obviously done wrong. And GM just doesnt seem to understand the wording of their own recall!
I feel bad for those folks who may be in this situation and pay a dealership out of pocket the $400 or so to do this...
Appreciate everybodys comments. This is the first real issue I have had with the car.... going on 90k miles (aside from replacing the active with passive struts)... and not so much an expense issue, just a frustration issue with how GM has handled this.

AJxtcman
12-19-07, 08:22 AM
That is what I am seeing. The GM reps cannot even tell me what was billed, or the record notes from the service date of 9/14/2004. The initial inspection was obviously done wrong. And GM just doesnt seem to understand the wording of their own recall!
I feel bad for those folks who may be in this situation and pay a dealership out of pocket the $400 or so to do this...
Appreciate everybodys comments. This is the first real issue I have had with the car.... going on 90k miles (aside from replacing the active with passive struts)... and not so much an expense issue, just a frustration issue with how GM has handled this.

A new thought

I installed a used engine last year. It had an old NON marked rail. I swapped it with the one from the car.

Next we have been seeing a lot of back pressure valve failures. The guys that are doing them have been installing used manifolds and they come complete.

In either case the car could have had a stainless rail on it and now a plastic.

On the other hand it could be a 99 car that they installed a 97 intake setup on. The 99 car would have been a plastic rail and now it would have a SS:D

ewill3rd
12-19-07, 10:56 AM
As AJ indicated, this car hasn't had an engine replacement or something like that has it?

hilliss
12-19-07, 01:30 PM
Nope -
Have all the records on this one. 1996 car, original engine, manifold, and rail.

coppertop
12-20-07, 02:37 AM
I emailed g.m. of canada about my 97 sts,they said they dont have any record of a recall for my car,

did you happen to get the cost of s.s. rails?.
Don't bother trying this recall in Canada, Its not a recall here. I dealt with GM Canada and they wont help, I inspected my rails and they Failed. So I called GM Canada and informed them. (only GM special buliten here my friend works for a dealership and got me the Buliten #) After a week of calls with GM representitive Shirly Powel, I got to bring my car into be be checked at City Cadillac. Jim Wildman the service manager thought I was a complete idiot and just had 1 of his flunkies put some tire dressing on the rails to make them look pretty. I guess he thought all cadillac owners wont remove the beauty cover and inspect the rails themselves. This was over a year ago and guess what I've had to replace 1 tube allready because of a leak. I guess GM Canada doesnt care about thier customers as long they can save a couple of bucks. VERY SAD:mad2:

creeker
12-20-07, 05:55 PM
Don't bother trying this recall in Canada, Its not a recall here. I dealt with GM Canada and they wont help, I inspected my rails and they Failed. So I called GM Canada and informed them. (only GM special buliten here my friend works for a dealership and got me the Buliten #) After a week of calls with GM representitive Shirly Powel, I got to bring my car into be be checked at City Cadillac. Jim Wildman the service manager thought I was a complete idiot and just had 1 of his flunkies put some tire dressing on the rails to make them look pretty. I guess he thought all cadillac owners wont remove the beauty cover and inspect the rails themselves. This was over a year ago and guess what I've had to replace 1 tube allready because of a leak. I guess GM Canada doesnt care about thier customers as long they can save a couple of bucks. VERY SAD:mad2:

Thanks for the info,but I wonder why g.m. canada was willing to have your car inspected at a dealership if they didnt intend to do anything about it?.
Did you by any chance get a price to do the s.s rail?. tnx.

coppertop
12-20-07, 10:33 PM
I didn't bother to find out the price, I was ready to let the car burn and sue GM Canada but i fixed the leaky tube. ( I still like the car too much to let it burn.)

creeker
12-20-07, 10:57 PM
I didn't bother to find out the price, I was ready to let the car burn and sue GM Canada but i fixed the leaky tube. ( I still like the car too much to let it burn.)

The truth hurts,but no way in hell would you win a law suit with g.m..

when you did the repair yourself,where did you get the materials from?,was there a part no. or anything,just in case I need it one day, thanks.

clarkz71
12-23-07, 12:22 PM
I wouldn't risk an engine fire over $105 fuel rail. Change it and keep the recipt.
Then continue the fight with GM. Take pictures of the old rail
on the engine as well as keeping the old plastic rail as proof.

coppertop
12-24-07, 01:09 PM
I wouldn't risk an engine fire over $105 fuel rail. Change it and keep the recipt.
Then continue the fight with GM. Take pictures of the old rail
on the engine as well as keeping the old plastic rail as proof.
Thanks clark, I was told U know to dissable Traction control on obd1 cars. Can u plz message me instructions on how it can be done.

clarkz71
12-24-07, 01:23 PM
No problem, when I get home I'll check my FSM, there should be an overide funtion to do that.

BlackCaddy87
12-24-07, 03:08 PM
to disable traction control just get into the diagnostics, under pcm go to override. Its ps24 press warmer and it will disable traction control for 11 ignition cycles

clarkz71
12-24-07, 03:14 PM
That's the one.

coppertop
12-26-07, 07:05 PM
Thanks guys, Its fun lauching my car off the line now!

Cadillac_Cutie
05-06-08, 06:23 AM
Can someone tell me if my car is subject to this recall. The VIN is 1G6kf5297tu297784 I just bought my 1996 Cadillac Deville Concours last month and Im having problems with my FPR (I believe) and just relplaced the Fuel Relay Switch with no luck on fixing the problem. Please tell me how I go about having my car checked and replaced with GM footing the bill.

ewill3rd
05-06-08, 07:13 AM
That car has no open recalls.

The FPR is not covered by the recall, they can replace it while they do the recall (if it applied) but you still have to pay for the part.
At any rate, looks like you are on your own. :(