: iDrive, One of the worst automotive concepts in recent history.



I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-07, 12:17 AM
So the dealer I work at got an '04 745i from the auto auctions this morning. It came in to service this afternoon for the used car inspection, and I wrote it up. Anyways, I went to move it into our back lot and that's when I got my first real experience with BMW's infamous iDrive.

It's absolutely horrible.

When BMW designed this, they intention was to use it so you'd spend less time changing the driving and comfort functions to your liking, and more time driving, because BMW is the "Ultimate Driving Machine"...in theory, it sounds nice, but in realization, it's overly complicated and quite intimidating.

For example, I did not even take it out of the parking lot today, so I didn't really even need to use the iDrive at all, but I still wanted to fiddle with it a bit to see how you used it. There are eight main menus (going clock wise on the display): Communications, car data, navigation, help, entertainment, settings, climate and BMW Assist. To access anything except for the HVAC controls, you have to use the iDrive system. So if you want to change radio stations en transit, you've gotta use that damn iDrive. If you want to turn the traction control on or off, you've got to use the iDrive. If you want to adjust the brightness or contrast of the main display, you've gotta go through the iDrive....yeah, you can see how it'll get real confusing real fast.

This particular BMW was a Florida car, and it had the Sport Package, so it had lousy tires for winter on it, and man, that was horrible in the snow, even with it being plowed! It might have been OK if I could figure out how to turn the traction control back on, but thanks to that iDrive system, which the traction control and stability control are routed through, I couldn't figure out how to activate them, even after reading through the manual. So basically, if I even breathed on the throttle, I'd be going into a slow, controlled sideways drift. And forget about going up even the slightest of inclines....if the motor gets above 800 rpm, it'll spin the rear tires without any hesitation at all. So it took me five minutes to get this $83,000, technology laden, king-sized BMW from our back lot into our service department...a move that takes no more than 30 seconds in any other car.

It's a shame really, that an iDrive can wreck a perfectly beautiful, comfortable, fast and fun to drive car. For as much as I like looking at the car, and sitting in it, I wouldn't ever buy one....just because of that iDrive system. And from what I hear, the car is just brilliant to drive too...it's balanced almost perfectly, and it's got razor sharp handling, rides very smooth and is very, very quick, but all due to the iDrive, many will be too intimidated to take it out and give it all it's worth. I can't imagine what the learning curve on that thing is......like a month?? So for like the first month or so, you've gotta learn how to work it, and that's gonna be quite intimidating, so in a way, it's kind of disheartening, because you want to experience the car, but don't wanna have to deal with that complicated system so you can get the car set to how you like it so you can really enjoy it.

Nah, not for me. The cars from the last five or so years are getting needlessly complicated.

Stoneage_Caddy
12-09-07, 12:51 AM
weve gotten 3 of them , i dont see all the fuss about i drive ...really alot fo the stuff can be controlled without even useing I drive ...

the thing that annoyed em the most wasnt the I drive , but how to controll the tranny , the paddles and how they operate madeno sense at all , and the stupid gear shift ......chryslers teletouch was beatter then that

77CDV
12-09-07, 12:55 AM
Proving yet again that technology for it's own sake is not a good thing.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-07, 12:59 AM
Oh god, those too! NOTHING is conventional on these cars...everything isn't how it seems. The gearshift isn't normal, it's no more than three inches long and barely moves up and down to move into Drive, Reverse or Neutral...you've gotta push a button to get it to go into park....just like on the Prius, but even that isn't as mind numbing as this ordeal. And there are like three other stalks that come off of the steering column.... controls for headlights, wipers, and power mirrors. They've all got those stupid little pictograms on them, so you can't figure out how to use them or what they really do...everything is by guess...until you actually sit down and read through the owner's manual or "quick reference guide" these German cars always have.

I mean I'm all about electronic gizmos and gadgets and toys, but man, you've gotta draw the line somewhere. I remember back when the '92 Bonnevilles came out, I was 5 back then, I thought they were so cool because of all those little grey buttons that were all over the dashboard, and since then, I've always thought it was cool when cars had lots of buttons for me to control and play around with, but this I-Drive is just completely back-ass-words for me.

And it's really sad, because this car has influenced the automotive world so much. When Mercedes redesigned the S Class in '07, they made a system like the I-Drive too, but it's not as quite as complicated, and when the A8 was redesigned in '04, they made a system like that too, but theirs is praised in the automotive community for it's intuitive design and ease of use. Then there's Bangle's design...which has been followed world-wide..first it was the Benzes, then the Toyotas, now the Lexuses, and even the Hondas are following suit. Can you remember how debated that design was when it came out???? I sure can! I like the 7, especially in it's earliest years, but the later ones that Bangle did, especially the 5 series, just got more abstract and ugly, except for the '07 3 Series Coupe...that is one gorgeous car! :drool:

MN-STS-LOVER
12-09-07, 12:59 AM
All I can say is.....Yea Cadillac!

Night Wolf
12-09-07, 01:28 AM
Whatever happened to the "gee imagine that, another technological automotive breakthrough by the Germans, who would have thought of that?

I like the buttons on my steering wheel to control the radio and climate control system... don't need anything more fancy then that.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-07, 01:29 AM
I suppose Rick's got a boner over me knocking on German technology. :p

Night Wolf
12-09-07, 01:42 AM
a boner? lol... I dunno about that....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-07, 01:44 AM
Ah, don't worry about it buddy, just messing with ya. :)

Night Wolf
12-09-07, 02:12 AM
:banana: :)

Crown Vic Owner
12-09-07, 03:45 AM
IDK, i love complicated technology personally.

Playdrv4me
12-09-07, 03:50 AM
idrive has improved dramatically since it was originally implemented.

For some of us, technology for the sake of technology is what attacts us to these cars. I for one like to learn the system and become proficient at it, just like Rick enjoys the crap out of those digital dashes.

Yes, its cumbersome for most people, but I like the way it works. One of my favorite parts about idrive is the tactile feedback the controller gives you. If you push past the last option in a menu for example, the idrive controller will vibrate in your hand to let you know you've gone too far.

The menus are designed with a high quality 32-bit interface and with colors that are easy on the eyes. A DRASTIC change from the stick-man 8 bit colors the previous BMW navigation systems had (that were still just as difficult to operate).

Yes, it is true that there's too much integrated into Idrive's interface, but once you get used to its operation it isn't really that bad, and it's great to always have something new to "play with" during your ownership of the car. All the while still maintaining the driving characteristics that make a BMW a BMW.

For the longest time, BMW did not innovate at *ALL*. Their navigation systems were ARCHAIC, their interiors looked like they were stuck in 1997, and there was no technological improvements made because so many people pushed the "driving machine" ideal. All the while, Mercedes, CADILLAC, Lexus etc. were introducing radar cruise control systems, A/C seats, 3D DVD based Navigation systems with larger screens and hell, even just TOUCH SCREENS alone.

The 2002 re-design of the 7 Series, including i-drive, was an attempt to not only catch up to, but exceed the expectations of customers who were leaving BMW in droves for the technology being offered by its competitors. You can't fault them for having some growing pains in such an incredibly different car from what they had created in the past.

As far as the sport package, well whose dumb idea was it to buy a 2004 745i Sport in MINNESOTA in the WINTER? Of course it's going to be a bitch in the ice and snow. A RWD STS Northstar is similarly difficult to manage when the TC is turned off, hell even with it ON. (Not to mention if the TC was off something was wrong with it, it's never automatically OFF at startup unless there's a fault.)

And why is a Chevrolet dealership buying a 745i to begin with? I see that at some Suzuki, Chevrolet, Kia, Daewoo dealerships here. Entry level car dealers with a slew of highline cars that I GUESS are designed to reel people into the showroom.

Night Wolf
12-09-07, 04:18 AM
Yeah, I do have a thing for digital dashes :o :)

I must say, all this talk about BMW's has sparked my interest in them again.... I dunno, I always kinda like the simplicity of the E30's, I've heard they are an awesome drivers car.... I wonder how true that is... I want to experience one for myself... I've been in the mood for a fun to drive car too.... ah man.... I guess time to start researching...

Crown Vic Owner
12-09-07, 04:20 AM
i heard a mark viii feels the same way as well, but i dont know about that. I am waiting to get one of them next

Playdrv4me
12-09-07, 04:36 AM
Yeah, I do have a thing for digital dashes :o :)

I must say, all this talk about BMW's has sparked my interest in them again.... I dunno, I always kinda like the simplicity of the E30's, I've heard they are an awesome drivers car.... I wonder how true that is... I want to experience one for myself... I've been in the mood for a fun to drive car too.... ah man.... I guess time to start researching...

E30's are one of the cheapest ways to get into the full visceral BMW driving experience in its purest form. They are a blast to drive and for someone like you who is mechanically inclined, a joy to maintain.

BTW, Rick, I almost did a double take today when I looked over at the Kia Sedona (Gen 1) minivan driving next to me. I was amazed to see it had a digital dash! I immediately thought of you when I saw that.

EDIT: Hmm... now Im confused. Im not seeing any digital dash pics of any Sedonas. It must have been a Mercury Villager.

Night Wolf
12-09-07, 05:45 AM
i heard a mark viii feels the same way as well, but i dont know about that. I am waiting to get one of them next

As nice as they are... there is no manual trans option.

Night Wolf
12-09-07, 05:50 AM
E30's are one of the cheapest ways to get into the full visceral BMW driving experience in its purest form. They are a blast to drive and for someone like you who is mechanically inclined, a joy to maintain.

BTW, Rick, I almost did a double take today when I looked over at the Kia Sedona (Gen 1) minivan driving next to me. I was amazed to see it had a digital dash! I immediately thought of you when I saw that.

EDIT: Hmm... now Im confused. Im not seeing any digital dash pics of any Sedonas. It must have been a Mercury Villager.

Villager is a rebadged Quest.... either way.... I don't know of them having digital dashes....

I've heard much of what you said about the E30...

Now question, does similar era 5-series offer the same fun to drive aspects and all, but with more luxury options? or is it a different animal? I hear about the E30 alot, but not many others of those years.

from my brief research, it seems like in 1987 they made changes to the enignes for more power and fuel econ...

I think the 2.5L I6 would be better then the 1.8L I4, more power, and, I like I6's. How is the 4cyl and 6cyl on gas? or, is the 4cyl better for any reason etc...?

I wanna learn more about them.... maybe they would satisfy my desire for wanting a fun sporty car to drive.... some can be had for cheap too....

Jesda
12-09-07, 10:28 AM
iDrive is what happens when you don't allow Germans to invade neighboring countries. To express their hatred of mankind, they built the 2002 7-series and iDrive. If we gave them Poland, everything would be back to normal at BMW.

http://www.carcierge.co.uk/images/bmw_7series_lf02ehj_lrg_1.jpg
Gross. Might as well put an "L" badge on it.

Jesda
12-09-07, 10:30 AM
i heard a mark viii feels the same way as well, but i dont know about that. I am waiting to get one of them next

Mark VIII makes all the right moves, but the "feel" is lacking in some respects, like steering and braking. It stops with authority and turns with precision, but it doesn't give feedback to the driver the way an older BMW does.

96Fleetwood
12-09-07, 11:26 AM
My parents have had their 760Li for a year now.. no complaints with I-drive and both of them are not very computer literate.

To me it is a wave of the future, I had the pleasure of driving that 760Li from Virignia Beach to Charlotte and the I-drive makes everything so easy! No need to fumble for controls or take your eyes off the road once you get the hang of it. :thumbsup:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-07, 01:13 PM
I must say, all this talk about BMW's has sparked my interest in them again.... I dunno, I always kinda like the simplicity of the E30's, I've heard they are an awesome drivers car.... I wonder how true that is... I want to experience one for myself... I've been in the mood for a fun to drive car too.... ah man.... I guess time to start researching...


Cool to see you're thinking German now...I knew some day you'd want to try it out. :) :thumbsup:

I don't know much about these E30s, but I think Ian, Jesda or GothicaLeigh (sp?) would be a great person to talk to about these. I know GL has owned one before....I think a '90?



Now question, does similar era 5-series offer the same fun to drive aspects and all, but with more luxury options? or is it a different animal? I hear about the E30 alot, but not many others of those years.

From what I've heard from Jesda, he's owned a few E34's, the last I remember being an '89 525i (and I'm sure he'll chime in later), is that they're great cars to drive...not the quickest, but balanced wonderfully, and they handle like a dream...and I guess the steering and braking feel is amazing too...just amazing. One of the sales managers at my work has a '93 525i, and I've sat in it and drove it around the lot a few times...it's got nice, supportive seats that are covered in a high quality leather, and it's got a good amount of dark walnut trim in the cabin, and the most wonderfully complex trip computer I've ever seen, and like most German cars, the build quality is magnificent.

The only things I didn't really like about the car, atleast from what I've seen so far is the lack of interior room, and the very strange HVAC setup they have.

http://imgs.getauto.com/imgs/ag/ga/38/78/5/WBAHE1323RGE53878-5.jpg

Here's a decent picture of one.. as you can see, there are three knobs, three horizontal sliders and three buttons. The three knobs control air temp and fan speed. The three sliders control air distribution..top being defrost, middle being dash and bottom being floor. When any of the sliders is in the full left position, it means no air will come out of those particular vents, but the further you slide them to the right, the more air they let through. So it's entirely possible to have a good amount of air blowing from all three zones....neat and odd. And IIRC the three buttons control: recirc, rear defrost and maybe the charcoal filter?

The Germans love to control the airflow. ;)




I wanna learn more about them.... maybe they would satisfy my desire for wanting a fun sporty car to drive.... some can be had for cheap too....

Either an E30 or E34 would satisfy your criteria listed above. I think you'd be more partial to the 5 Series because it's slightly larger, more luxurious (has a warmer, less sterile interior) and it can be had with a stick-shift, and the I-6 is standard...in the later models you can get a 540i with the four liter, quad cam V-8, but an Inline 6 would be preferred.

Honestly, if I didn't live in the snowbelt and had a little more cash in the bank, I'd pick up an E34 just as a secondary car.




The 2002 re-design of the 7 Series, including i-drive, was an attempt to not only catch up to, but exceed the expectations of customers who were leaving BMW in droves for the technology being offered by its competitors. You can't fault them for having some growing pains in such an incredibly different car from what they had created in the past.

I remember reading magazine articles and road tests when the E65 came out back in late '01...they were nagging the iDrive, and the Bangle-butt (I always thought it worked well) and the over abundance of technology, but I remember reading they had to do that so they would be passed by their competitors and forgotten about. Hell, I remember reading in one article, that people had bought the new 7, and went and traded them back in on their old cars, just because of the over-abundance of technology and the steep learning curve. I'd imagine it was mainly older customers that did that.



As far as the sport package, well whose dumb idea was it to buy a 2004 745i Sport in MINNESOTA in the WINTER? Of course it's going to be a bitch in the ice and snow.

Some brilliant sales manager that'll never have to drive the car around the lot. I'm almost positive I'm gonna have to sell them a new set of tires before we put that car on the lot (that'll be a thousand dollars...)

Caddy Man
12-09-07, 01:43 PM
Ive used iDrive in my friends 2004 745. Here is my take:

The thing that bothers me is that ALL functions (navigation, radio, etc) must be navigated by Idrive. To navigate through each menu for specific functions, you must turn the knob and scroll through everything to find what you want. If you MOVE the knob up, down, left, or right, it goes to different menus such as radio, navigations etc. This can be very confusing.

My father has a 2007 S 550. It has a similar set up except Mercedes gave several buttons for specific functions that are commonly used. Want to switch to navigation? Theres a navigation button next to the knob; want the radio or CD? Theres a button next to the knob for that....and my favorite is the ''Back'' button. Just press it and it backtracks you through the menus. Since these buttons dont require you to move the entire knob to access various menus, this means that to look for a specific function in the radio menu for example, you can scroll with the wheel OR just push the wheel to the right, left, up, or down as well. This system is much faster and simpler to use than iDrive.

You all should see the manual though to the S class...its THICK.

Playdrv4me
12-09-07, 01:45 PM
iDrive is what happens when you don't allow Germans to invade neighboring countries. To express their hatred of mankind, they built the 2002 7-series and iDrive. If we gave them Poland, everything would be back to normal at BMW.

http://www.carcierge.co.uk/images/bmw_7series_lf02ehj_lrg_1.jpg
Gross. Might as well put an "L" badge on it.

Gorgeous.

Playdrv4me
12-09-07, 01:49 PM
I remember reading magazine articles and road tests when the E65 came out back in late '01...they were nagging the iDrive, and the Bangle-butt (I always thought it worked well) and the over abundance of technology, but I remember reading they had to do that so they would be passed by their competitors and forgotten about. Hell, I remember reading in one article, that people had bought the new 7, and went and traded them back in on their old cars, just because of the over-abundance of technology and the steep learning curve. I'd imagine it was mainly older customers that did that.


Yup, youre absolutely right. Same thing as Cadillac. Alot of the older customers, and even many of the younger ones complained when the CTS came out that Cadillac was getting too far away from its roots.

Well, Cadillac decided to stay the course with its new direction, and Lincoln decided to appease its constituents... and we know where Lincoln is now.

Night Wolf
12-09-07, 01:54 PM
Cool to see you're thinking German now...I knew some day you'd want to try it out. :) :thumbsup:

I don't know much about these E30s, but I think Ian, Jesda or GothicaLeigh (sp?) would be a great person to talk to about these. I know GL has owned one before....I think a '90?



From what I've heard from Jesda, he's owned a few E34's, the last I remember being an '89 525i (and I'm sure he'll chime in later), is that they're great cars to drive...not the quickest, but balanced wonderfully, and they handle like a dream...and I guess the steering and braking feel is amazing too...just amazing. One of the sales managers at my work has a '93 525i, and I've sat in it and drove it around the lot a few times...it's got nice, supportive seats that are covered in a high quality leather, and it's got a good amount of dark walnut trim in the cabin, and the most wonderfully complex trip computer I've ever seen, and like most German cars, the build quality is magnificent.

The only things I didn't really like about the car, atleast from what I've seen so far is the lack of interior room, and the very strange HVAC setup they have.

http://imgs.getauto.com/imgs/ag/ga/38/78/5/WBAHE1323RGE53878-5.jpg

Here's a decent picture of one.. as you can see, there are three knobs, three horizontal sliders and three buttons. The three knobs control air temp and fan speed. The three sliders control air distribution..top being defrost, middle being dash and bottom being floor. When any of the sliders is in the full left position, it means no air will come out of those particular vents, but the further you slide them to the right, the more air they let through. So it's entirely possible to have a good amount of air blowing from all three zones....neat and odd. And IIRC the three buttons control: recirc, rear defrost and maybe the charcoal filter?

The Germans love to control the airflow. ;)




Either an E30 or E34 would satisfy your criteria listed above. I think you'd be more partial to the 5 Series because it's slightly larger, more luxurious (has a warmer, less sterile interior) and it can be had with a stick-shift, and the I-6 is standard...in the later models you can get a 540i with the four liter, quad cam V-8, but an Inline 6 would be preferred.

Honestly, if I didn't live in the snowbelt and had a little more cash in the bank, I'd pick up an E34 just as a secondary car.



I remember reading magazine articles and road tests when the E65 came out back in late '01...they were nagging the iDrive, and the Bangle-butt (I always thought it worked well) and the over abundance of technology, but I remember reading they had to do that so they would be passed by their competitors and forgotten about. Hell, I remember reading in one article, that people had bought the new 7, and went and traded them back in on their old cars, just because of the over-abundance of technology and the steep learning curve. I'd imagine it was mainly older customers that did that.



Some brilliant sales manager that'll never have to drive the car around the lot. I'm almost positive I'm gonna have to sell them a new set of tires before we put that car on the lot (that'll be a thousand dollars...)

I agree, the interior is alot better on the E34 then the E30....

But does the E34 still have that classic BMW drivers feel? thats what I would be most interested in.... a drivers car.

I do like the 5-series tho, for being a bit more upscale and stuff... and.... if a BMW, no V8 for me, I'd prefer the I6.

I never had anything against German cars... I gotta admit, since my friend was all into VW (now Saab... go figure) I've liked them... even that old Jetta had a really nice driving feel to it.

I take it that E34's are probably alot more money then E30's tho.... I see people talk about E30's poping up for $1,000 or less, thats kinda what I wanted to find, but I've been reading up alot about them... like any car, there are some things to watch out for.

I dunno if I'd keep the Town Car... it would be cool to have a car from each corner of the auto industry :)

But, I've got the urge for a drivers car... thats why I want a Saturn Sky Redline soo bad.... but... it will be years and years until those get anywhere near what I am willing to pay for a car.... other drivers cars I think of are Miatas, which I really don't want, and Corvettes, which are not really practical for me.... then thats pretty much it.... but now with these older BMW's... I dunno, I've always heard good things about them.... yeah they aren't a 2 seat roadster, but I don't mind having 4 doors and a back seat, makes it easy to move people around... and I can do without a convertible too....

Heh, just my mind going crazy... I dunno... I wanna drive one now.

So E30 vs E34.... pros and cons... enlighten me :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-07, 03:11 PM
So E30 vs E34.... pros and cons... enlighten me :)

Yessir! :)

It's tough to find an E30 that's unmolested, clean and low mile. The lot of them have very high miles, and aren't generally very clean anymore. Their last year of production was '91, and that's pretty old now, at least to me. I'm not sure if the 2-door v. 4-door thing is a big deal to you, but IIRC, you prefer two doors...well luckily for you, the vast majority of the E30s were Coupes...not many sedans, and there's a good amount of convertibles out there too. A coworker had a red '90 325i coupe, and I got to sit in it once...it was dark, sterile and not particularly roomy, and it had none of the luxury features that modern BMW's have...it had power locks, power windows and A/C...that's about the most complex feature it had. I generally don't like the way they look..they were designed in '83 and they look it, and I've never been one for the way the old Bimmers look. Not my cup of tea, but from what I've heard, they're some of the "purist" BMW's ever made, and are probably more of a driver's car than the E34. The E30 only had the 1.8L I-4 for one year, 1991, and I'd definitely stick with the 2.5L I-6.

I like the E34 more because it's bigger, it's more luxurious, it's got more power goodies, it's quieter, it rides smoother yet it's still a driver's car...but it's a bigger drivers car, if you know what I mean. The E34 was designed for '88, and it's got a much bigger, mature look than the E30, while following the same common theme...German simplicity. And another nice thing is the E34 was built up until '95, so you can get one that's newer and has less miles, and has been maintained better. Basically, if the E30 is one of the purist driver's BMW's of all time, then I'd say the E34 is the purist BMW's driver's sedan of all time.


Here's a good comparison picture for you Rick.

'87 325i Sedan
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/amdspitfire/e30%20325i/DSCN8483Medium.jpg

'95 525i
http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/houstoninc/DSC03075.JPG




Interior- 325i Sedan
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/amdspitfire/e30%20325i/DSCN8503Medium.jpg

525i
http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/c9/93/4909_3.JPG


Hope this helps.

Jesda
12-10-07, 01:02 AM
BMW climate controls are AWFUL.

"Look, a place to stick another knob!"


[Thats what she said.]

Playdrv4me
12-10-07, 01:19 AM
BMW climate controls are AWFUL.

"Look, a place to stick another knob!"


[Thats what she said.]

NICE!

DaveSmed
12-10-07, 01:45 AM
E30 vs E34.... The E34 is typically newer, The E28 is a little more in line with the E30, though around the time the E34 came out, the E30 did get a bit of a facelift with different bumpers and taillights among other things.

Example:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/fretburnr/detailed/DSC00878cleanSz.jpg

Anyway...
Rick, whatcha looking to use the car for? Looking to diversify your fleet a bit? Or looking for another car of the genre you prefer? What features are important to you? What kind of driving do you intend to do with the car?

There's enough different models to sort through to keep you busy for awhile, Early 318i, 325, 325e, 325es, 325i, 325is, 325iX, 325iC, Late 318i, 318is, 318iC, and of course, the crowd favorite, the M3.

Night Wolf
12-10-07, 08:27 AM
I dunno, at first I thought I'd possibly replace the Town Car... but I don't think I really want to do that, cause while those older BMW's are very unique... they defeintly weren't competing with the Town Car in terms of options and comfort.

Bascially, I'd want one cause I am really craving a fun and rewarding car to drive.... the Town Car, while fun to get sideways, and plow thru corners (it's got the touring/handling package :) ) is still a Town Car....

.... in fact, blame it on the Isuzu.... it's a truck, with 32" tires and lifted 2".... yet I still manage to drive it like a sports car at times..... it all started with this lever inside that says 1-2-3-4-5-R and I can't get enough of it! Seriously, I'm really in the mood for a car that is made to be driven.... see, I don't want a Camaro that just has gobs of power... I want a drivers car... and actually, to my surprise, I'm not even interested in power/speed it isn't all that it's cracked up to be..... I can back that up because my 120hp 4cyl truck provides more then enough for my normal day to day driving.... if it was an automatic, it would be flat out horrible and boring... but the manual trans just brings it all together.... I don't mind driving a low powered vehicle, cause it's still fun to drive.

Basically, compared to other cars I'd be interested in, I either really don't want one (Miata) or are wayyyy too expensive (Solstice/Sky) somewhere in the mix of things, it seems like an E30 would be a car that would pull it off.... while convertible would be sweet, I bet they are alot more money and harder to find.... so I really don't care, 2 door or 4 dosn't matter either.

I dunno, I'm not looking for a show queen... but I have heard of more then a few instances of people picking up these things for $1,000, or less, or a tad more depending on condition.... yeah it'd be nice to find one in mint shape, but I dunno, I'd just be interested in it for what it has to offer as far as driving goes.

As far as what I would use it for? Just driving, heck, since it's not what would be considered a fancy luxury car, I'd probably drive it to work too.... just something to have fun driving, that is the most important thing.

I was reading up... i is normal car, is... is sports version and e is economy.... M3 would be sweet, but hard to find and expensive make it a no. I'd prefer the I6 cause it's an I6, more power and stuff, but if I found a cheap 318, can't say I woudlnt take it..... so I guess a 325i would be what I want?

About the 5-series..... they are really nice... and if I was looking for a car to replace my other cars, and just have one, then yeah, I'd probably go with the E34 cause its bigger and more options and stuff.... but none of that really matters, and it seems like the E30 is *alot* cheaper then the E34, and thats good, plus it seems to be a better drivers car, and thats good too.

I dunno... it'll be a loooong time before anything happens, but I still want to learn about them and know what to look for and stuff, maybe keep an eye out. I'm defintily in no rush :)

Playdrv4me
12-10-07, 09:25 AM
Sounds like a stick BMW, any stick BMW, will be exactly what you want.

DaveSmed
12-11-07, 02:13 AM
Sounds like a stick BMW, any stick BMW, will be exactly what you want.

Yup. You really can't go wrong with any of them, but an E30 sounds like just what your looking for. Depending on the trim, the little features you are used to are usually included like trip computer, (avg mpg, distance to empty, outside temp, a speed reminder feature, and a really neat anti theft feature) power windows (haven't personally seen a US market E30 without them) power locks (ditto) and so on. It has the basics well covered.

The "e" models are cheaper, get phenomenal gas mileage for a 20 year old car (31-38 range typically), and are for the most part just as fun to drive as the "i" models. BMW usually nails the gearing perfectly based on the engine's characteristics, and this helps a lot. The "e" models are actually bigger than the "i", they displace 2.7L vs 2.5L, they do not rev as high (by a large margin) and they are very torque-oriented. The "i" models rev out higher, and have more HP up top at the expense of torque, but have steeper gears to make up for it. As far as "es" and "is", the sport models typically have more options, sit a hair lower, have some aero stuff (deeper front spoiler, stuff like that) and some came with nicer wheels. The plain 325 with no letter is basically the "e" but its the base model. There is no difference in engines other than "e" "i" and the four cyls. An "is" has the same engine as an "i". There is another called the "iX", that one is AWD. Hard to find a solid one as most were driven in the nastiest weather. "iC" is the one I have, there the ones with the fancy tarp covering the interior. FWIW, I paid $1200 for mine.

Driving one, there very comfortable in stock forum and handle pretty well. The leather holds up about as well as an older C-body (not a complement btw) and the interior isn't much to look at. The instrumentation is excellent however, as is the layout of the controls.

Best way to decide is look at a few, and drive them. I scoped out craigslist for your area, and people must think the things are made out of gold or something. I did find a few worth looking at though, especially if your a good at negotiating price.

'86 325, silver with black sport interior (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/497081840.html)
'89 325i, white with tan non-sport interior. ('89 was the year of the facelift) (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/480424164.html)
'86 325e 4dr, black with blue non sport interior (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/477608549.html)
'84 325e, no pictures, supposedly needs battery. will have sport interior and trip
computer. (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/476400289.html)

And I also found this....

'84 325e, white with tan sport interior..... and an M-50 engine from a newer 3 series and some other work. Quite a fun combination. (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/493721647.html)

Cadillacboy
12-11-07, 05:57 AM
I Drive should be called F Drive

:lol:

Night Wolf
12-11-07, 06:50 AM
Yup. You really can't go wrong with any of them, but an E30 sounds like just what your looking for. Depending on the trim, the little features you are used to are usually included like trip computer, (avg mpg, distance to empty, outside temp, a speed reminder feature, and a really neat anti theft feature) power windows (haven't personally seen a US market E30 without them) power locks (ditto) and so on. It has the basics well covered.

The "e" models are cheaper, get phenomenal gas mileage for a 20 year old car (31-38 range typically), and are for the most part just as fun to drive as the "i" models. BMW usually nails the gearing perfectly based on the engine's characteristics, and this helps a lot. The "e" models are actually bigger than the "i", they displace 2.7L vs 2.5L, they do not rev as high (by a large margin) and they are very torque-oriented. The "i" models rev out higher, and have more HP up top at the expense of torque, but have steeper gears to make up for it. As far as "es" and "is", the sport models typically have more options, sit a hair lower, have some aero stuff (deeper front spoiler, stuff like that) and some came with nicer wheels. The plain 325 with no letter is basically the "e" but its the base model. There is no difference in engines other than "e" "i" and the four cyls. An "is" has the same engine as an "i". There is another called the "iX", that one is AWD. Hard to find a solid one as most were driven in the nastiest weather. "iC" is the one I have, there the ones with the fancy tarp covering the interior. FWIW, I paid $1200 for mine.

Driving one, there very comfortable in stock forum and handle pretty well. The leather holds up about as well as an older C-body (not a complement btw) and the interior isn't much to look at. The instrumentation is excellent however, as is the layout of the controls.

Best way to decide is look at a few, and drive them. I scoped out craigslist for your area, and people must think the things are made out of gold or something. I did find a few worth looking at though, especially if your a good at negotiating price.

'86 325, silver with black sport interior (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/497081840.html)
'89 325i, white with tan non-sport interior. ('89 was the year of the facelift) (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/480424164.html)
'86 325e 4dr, black with blue non sport interior (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/477608549.html)
'84 325e, no pictures, supposedly needs battery. will have sport interior and trip
computer. (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/476400289.html)

And I also found this....

'84 325e, white with tan sport interior..... and an M-50 engine from a newer 3 series and some other work. Quite a fun combination. (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/493721647.html)

OOOO they have a trip computer? I like that :)

I checked out cars.com and autotrader.com and they seemed to be asking alot, those ones on CL though, seem like a good deal.

I've been thinking about it more though, and I think I would really like a convertible, since I was interested in a convertible sports car, this kinda fits the bill.... but weather I am willing to pay a premium for one, I dunno. If I do decide on one, I may want to hold out to find one well kept... unless I was to stumble across a good deal or something.

So it seems like if I had it my way I'd get an '87-'93? preferably '89+ with the face lift, 325iC or the IS.... but if I find one for a good deal, any would do, but I'd prefer I6 and must be a 5spd.

I see these with 150-250k miles alot... I guess it's not like finding an 80's Brougham where $3,000 will buy a garage kept mint car with 60k miles..... but how do they age? I was reading up about them... says by 250k the manuals will loose 2nd gear, still, thats alot of miles on a car. I know to look out for the timing belts, whats the average life of a clutch on one of these too? The more I learn and read, the more intersted I get.

As far as style.... the exterior actually really appeals to me... the inteiror, yeah it's lacking, but I dunno, that dosn't really bother me too much... perhaps cause I would purchase it (and use it) for a drivers car, not a high end fancy luxury car, in that case, then it would bother me.

The "e" models seem to be rare.... would a 325e with 5spd be alot less fun to drive then an i?

Also, what sort of gas mileage do they get? 4cyl and 6? require premium?

DaveSmed
12-11-07, 02:06 PM
The trip computer was an option, albiet a popular one. It's commonly referred to as a "13 button". There's a "6 button" as well, and they suck. No fuel info. Anything else is a clock. Oh they also have something called a "Check Control" which monitors brake lights, taillights, lic. plate lights, headlights, washer fluid level, coolant level and oil level.

For instant fuel econ, they use a neat little gauge under the tach, much nicer than the digital displays that jump around too much.

They age very well, and mileage doesn't scare me one bit. A heads up- Don't trust any older German car odometer. They have a nice habit of not working, or working when they damn well please. Mine is at 240k and runs strong, and to be perfectly honest, I beat the living crap out of the thing. At some point in it's life, someone added a 4.10 posi, and I make sure I get my enjoyment out of it. ;) Clutch life is typically very good on these cars, between me and my friends, we have/had 9 of them, and haven't needed to do a single clutch yet. The highest mileage car out of all of them was a 325e, with somewhere around 300k on it. Only thing wrong with it is over 80, it started to burn a little bit of oil. What finally did it in was my friend forgot the air filter and it ate a screw. I would pay more attention to how it drives, and maintenance history. Look at the power steering and brake fluids. They should be changed often, and be clear. (P/S can be red) If they are black, the car may have been neglected elsewhere. Also, 20 years takes its toll on rubber things. Luckily, theres not many bushings on the car. Unluckily, the few that are there are usually a pain in the ass to change. I would drive it and make sure everything feels "tight".

"e" models aren't really rare, and depending on the year they were the top of the line model and came with everything. As far as less fun to drive? there the same car, but with an engine built for torque and low revs vs. HP and higher revs. Gearing places them both about equal as far as the fun factor goes, yet in a drag race, the "i" will pull on the "e" A limited slip is the biggest factor as far as fun goes. They really do add a lot to the car. All sport models (exc 318iS) had it standard, and it was optional on any model.

Gas mileage on the "e" models is extremely good, in my old one, beating the snot out of it around town usually got me 25mpg, and highway was around 33mpg. That car had around 220k. My "i" is 26mpg highway, and 19-20mpg around town. (also being hard on it)

The fours are around "e" mileage from what I understand, and the pre and post facelift 318 are worlds apart. The pre facelift had the old M10 carried over from two previous generations, while the facelift cars had the newest designed engine ever put in an E30 from the factory. All but the facelift 318 and the M3 run on regular. In fact, the "i" motors even have lower compression than the "e", making turbocharging a popular option.

As far as the convertibles go, they kept the metal bumpers and the small taillights until '91 for some reason, yet the arch over the rear wheel is the same as the later models (meaning the plastic bumpers are interchangable) The convertibles are a bit strange in that regard.

Here's some prices to give you an idea of what they go for.

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50117
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47708
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49955
And I got mine for $1200 because it "needed an alternator". (Reattached the groundstrap, and was good to go!) It had a new top put on a year ago, new rad, new hoses, new thermostat, a small dent in the pass. front fender, and the stitching in the back seat (where the sun hits it) let go.

BTW, this is a 13 button OBC (on-board computer)

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/thereisnoyun/Picture049-1.jpg

Playdrv4me
12-11-07, 02:17 PM
^^BMW God.

That little trip computer was BMWs leg up on Mercedes throughout the 80s and early 90s. While Mercedes was being its stalwart itself with nothing more fancy than an LCD temperature readout, BMW was innovating with that little trip computer. You could think of it as the earliest predecessor to i-drive, but alot easier to use, and just looked damn cool in the dash. I call it the "calculator".

What's funny is, that around 2000, Mercedes and BMW switched places and BMW fell way behind on technology until about 2002 with the 745.

Jesda
12-11-07, 06:20 PM
That trip computer is COOL as heck. It tells you DTE, MPG, arrival time, and much much more. I freaking loved it.

My 5-series had the old M20 inline 6 and a 5-speed manual. I miss that car every single day, even with almost 240,000 miles. When the world ends, all that will be left are roaches, ants, and 80s-90s BMWs.

Cadillacboy
12-11-07, 06:26 PM
I dunno what style do you like the best but I think diminishing the number of buttons makes more harm than good when it comes to functionality . This is one of the reasons the very 1st I Drive got criticised and they have begun to use a new I Drive thingy .
I can't imagine we only have 3-5 buttons for all the letters on the keyboard lol

Night Wolf
12-11-07, 06:56 PM
Hmmmm.... ***absorbing all this information*** :)

More I read, more I like :)

gary88
12-11-07, 07:10 PM
Is this the same Rick who not too long ago despised the cold, heartless, sterile German interiors? :eek:

DaveSmed
12-11-07, 11:58 PM
That trip computer is COOL as heck. It tells you DTE, MPG, arrival time, and much much more. I freaking loved it.

My 5-series had the old M20 inline 6 and a 5-speed manual. I miss that car every single day, even with almost 240,000 miles. When the world ends, all that will be left are roaches, ants, and 80s-90s BMWs.

By far, the coolest feature is the CODE button. With the key in accessory, you hit that and the word code pops up next to four flashing dashes. you use the smaller buttons to enter in a 4 digit combination, and turn the key off. When you go to start the car, you have to enter in the combination first, or else it won't allow fuel or spark. If you try to start it three times or enter in the wrong code three times, it sounds a separate anti-theft horn for thirty seconds. Think Transporter. :yup:

Night Wolf
12-12-07, 08:43 AM
Is this the same Rick who not too long ago despised the cold, heartless, sterile German interiors? :eek:

Sure is :)

Difference is, I am looking at this car strictly from a driving pleasure POV, and not high end luxury (which it's not) therefore the warmth of the interior isn't high on the list :) Tho I will admit, while it is cold looking, I don't mind the design too bad.

So right now my eye is on a 1984 318i..... trying to get ahold of the folks for more info.... yeah its the 4-popper, but from what I read, its still fun to drive, and despite the pathetic power output, still quick for what it is.... so it works for me :) Plus, if these things really get ~33mpg highway and mid/high 20's town... then sheesh.... that's pretty sweet.

Playdrv4me
12-12-07, 10:29 AM
By far, the coolest feature is the CODE button. With the key in accessory, you hit that and the word code pops up next to four flashing dashes. you use the smaller buttons to enter in a 4 digit combination, and turn the key off. When you go to start the car, you have to enter in the combination first, or else it won't allow fuel or spark. If you try to start it three times or enter in the wrong code three times, it sounds a separate anti-theft horn for thirty seconds. Think Transporter. :yup:

Believe it or not the Navigation/Trip computer in my 2003 Range Rover, and in all BMWs up through 2002 was just an evolution of that little trip computer. All of the same options are still in it, and a few new ones no one else has. One of my favorites is the doo-dad that lets you enter the remaining distance in your trip, and calculates exactly what time you will arrive based on your speed and the current time! You can also set cabin ventilation to turn on at a prespecified time up to 24 hours in the future so the cabin is cooler when you get in it. That code thing is still there too.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-12-07, 11:33 PM
Spent some more time in that 745i today...had to drive it across town to the BMW dealer for some repair work.

-A fair amount of wind noise, seems to be coming from the sunroof, but that was closed all the way. Wierd. The S Class is much quieter
-HVAC fan was quite loud.
- BMW's 4.4 liter V8 was INCREDIBLY smooth and quiet
- Highway acceleration was better than a FWD Northstar. Stunning from 60-70 mph.
- Comfortable, firm seats
- Big blind spots from the C pillar
- Loved that digital bar-graph instant fuel economy guage
- And yes, the iDrive, and all other controls, are becoming slightly more intuitive.
- The steering is a bit firmer than the steering in my Benz.
- Having the only volume controls on the steering wheel is DUMB.

Night Wolf
12-13-07, 07:13 AM
So as far as the BMW goes.... I found this, I called yesterday, but I am waiting for a call back today to get more info on the car. It's about 3hrs away, I was weighing all my options, and it seems like the best way to get this thing would be to rent a tow dolly from u-haul and tow it with none other then the Caddy. It's already got the heavy duty reciver hitch and wired up for towing trailer... plus the progressive rate springs and stuff... Apparently these cars only weigh around 2,500lbs, I figure if I keep it to 55-60 (or thereabouts, speedo dosn't work) it should be alright, it's not very hilly. Rebuilt trans has a big aftermarket cooler on it, engine cooling system has recently been serviced (my sliced finger will prove that)

It's a 1984 318i, 5spd, I know it's really sudden, but it may be one of those deals.... if so, then who knows, if not, I'll keep waiting. Says it runs good with "low miles for the year" asking $750.... if it runs and drives good and they take $500..... well... I may have a new toy.

Obviously its goldish, 2 door, I spot a sun roof, and apparently that spoiler is factory. Seems like the interior is tanish, which helps the sterile looking all black interior... from what I've been reading they should get pretty good gas mileage, mid-high 20's town and 30-35mpg highway... it's got fuel injection, 1.8L SOHC, something like 101hp and 105ft-lbs tq. or around there, but still fun to drive... whichever, not really that important... I'm willing to bet it's faster then the Isuzu, which is faster then the Caddy, so it can't be all that bad... but I am betting a while lot more fun to drive, which is the whole point of this. If anything, it would be something fun to drive around and to work and stuff, and save gas at the same time.

So on my weekend now, instead of fixing the blown headgasket on the Isuzu, I may be getting yet another car....

http://images.craigslist.org/0115060102010103002007120491b68f5e1a40089584009de4 .jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/010201011607010300200712040a9f6b84638376ebbb002989 .jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/010101010207010308200712044578bc6f2ca33a72ed0019db .jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/01011001020001031220071204ff2e255843cd2ed4920084a3 .jpg

To be perfectly honest, I've been thinking about it all night at work and really looking forward to getting the call back from the owner...

Night Wolf
12-13-07, 08:30 AM
About the iDrive, I've heard it stinks, but I've never used it or know what it is...

but while browsing one of the Bimmer sites, I saw this in someones signature, got quite a laugh out of it...

http://www.r3vlimited.com/gallery/files/9/0/4/9/idrivesig.jpg

Cadillacboy
12-13-07, 09:13 AM
I think this is Jesda's job :sneaky: lol

DaveSmed
12-13-07, 10:30 AM
Early 318i, one of the lightest E30s ever produced. How light? Try that they came with solid rotors on the front.

Unfortunately, that model most likely will have a clock instead of the 13 button. Fortunately, its a surprisingly easy retrofit, and you will still have the MPG gauge. Same with the brakes, all of the 325 stuff (vented front rotors, and rear disk) bolts on. Same with the 325 suspension, (rides a bit higher stock, but who stays stock these days? :lildevil: theres more spring rate options should you decide the car needs to handle even better and needs an altitude adjustment.) And so on. BTW, that color is called Bronzitbeige-metallic. That spoiler is not factory, and if it was designed specifically for the E30, sometimes that stuff is worth serious money.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-13-07, 10:45 AM
About the iDrive, I've heard it stinks, but I've never used it or know what it is...

but while browsing one of the Bimmer sites, I saw this in someones signature, got quite a laugh out of it...

http://www.r3vlimited.com/gallery/files/9/0/4/9/idrivesig.jpg


That is freaking awesome. Thank you for posting that Rick. If I had a BMW, I would make that my signature on here.

Night Wolf
12-13-07, 06:08 PM
Early 318i, one of the lightest E30s ever produced. How light? Try that they came with solid rotors on the front.

Unfortunately, that model most likely will have a clock instead of the 13 button. Fortunately, its a surprisingly easy retrofit, and you will still have the MPG gauge. Same with the brakes, all of the 325 stuff (vented front rotors, and rear disk) bolts on. Same with the 325 suspension, (rides a bit higher stock, but who stays stock these days? :lildevil: theres more spring rate options should you decide the car needs to handle even better and needs an altitude adjustment.) And so on. BTW, that color is called Bronzitbeige-metallic. That spoiler is not factory, and if it was designed specifically for the E30, sometimes that stuff is worth serious money.

I heard they were the lightest, but then only due to the actual weight of the engine, which means, chassis wise, they all weigh the same.

I don't like the look of the spoiler, but when I was browsing BMW forums in a picture thread, somebodies car had the same spoiler and they said it was a factory spoiler.... so I figured that one was too, but I guess not.

I was reading that the OBC thing can be swapped in, I'd probably end up doing it, but who knows when.

Anyway.... no call back today.... actually, I was going to call back but slept alot later then I wanted to.... apparently its at the kids fathers used car lot, so I can only get ahold of them like 9-5, but they don't know anything about it and the kid is out of state or something, hes the one that was supposed to call me.

I'll call them tomorrow again... But, if this dosn't work out, then thats fine, I'd like to hold out for a post facelift 325i convertible, This just seemed like a good deal, if it drives good.

Night Wolf
12-14-07, 11:25 AM
Alright, update on the B-M-Dubya....

So I called today, talked to the father. It's at a used car dealer, the father is trying to sell it (privately, not thru the dealer) for the son who lives in FL. He said his son had it for about a year but got a new truck.

He said it runs and drives fine "it'll do 80 down the highway", said that the engine is real strong. He said the A/C dosn't work, it's there, but not working... honestly, not a big deal to me. I asked about the mechanics of the car and stuff, he said no issues there. He said one of the power windows dosn't work, from what I hear, thats common on these cars, can just be switch or something. He said the tires should be replaced, just old and stuff.... which, while tires are expensive, new tires never hurt.

So durring all this, mileage was unknown until now, I told myself under 200k and I'll be happy... cause it seems like these cars don't stop. He said it has 185k on it, It's high, but pretty much inline, if not on the low end from what I've seen.

he said when he went out to look at it that the shifter is jammed... said somebody took it out yesterday and now he can move the shifter thru the gears but not into reverse... I dunno, maybe its like VW where you gotta push the shifter down or something, he said he is having the mechanic look at it.

So I asked about rust, he said only rust is on the passenger side of the fender on the bottom, the underbody of the car is clean... he is getting the VIN and will call me back with it, I wanna run an Autocheck.... if it was a Northern car and ends up having rust in places underneath, thats gonna be a red flag... if Southern car and little rust, that'll be good.

He said they have a u-haul at their dealer and will rent me a tow dolly he said he thinks it'll be under $100, but he'll have to check. I'd rather not drive a 24 year old car I just bought without going over first ~3hrs home with nobody following me etc.... though the Caddy isn't in all that great shape either, I don't doubt it would make the trip. I could drive the Town Car there with my friend, and have him follow me back.... but, I'd hate to bother someone else for a large part of the day, and the cost of renting the tow dolly vs paying for gas on 2 cars etc.... basically, if the Caddy can manage to get back in one piece towing that thing, it'll be good. That is a light car, so between the dolly and car it's gotta be under 3,000lbs.... not very hilly, and I'd be in no rush... I think it could do it.

I asked him if he would take $500 for it... I'd hate to make an offer over the phone, especially without seeing the car first, but it is 3hrs each way to drive... he says he'll have to call his son, but that won't be until after 5PM tonight, which means I woudln't actually get the car until tomorrow.

So...... if a couple more things line up, and I do end up looking at it and there are no crazy surprises, it looks like I'll be getting it.... I'm excited about it.

Now I gotta go back and finish trying to remove the head on the Isuzu, There are 10 head bolts, I have to use my 2 foot long 1/2" drive breaker bar with a 1/2" - 3/8" adapter and a long 3/8" extension... problem is, they are internal hex, metric, only 10mm, only thing Sears has is 3/8" drive. They are really tough to break loose (hence the 2 foot breaker bar) But I manged to break 9 of the head bolts loose, working from the edges to the center.... the 10th one is being stubbern, it broke that 3/8" drive 10mm hex socket.... I brought it back and got a new one.... first try on that bolt and the socket shattered. The guy at Sears says I'll keep breaking these things all day if I keep doing that, I ask him if they've got anything bigger or stronger.... he says no... I ask where I can go to get something else, he says he dunno.... so this is no help... Sears is supposed to have this stuff, I don't know where else to go... the Mac and Matco guys only come by work in their trucks certain times and none are there today (atleast now) So I've got a new socket, and I want to get that last bolt broke loose, but I know if I break this socket again that'll be it for now.. the guy was getting mad at me for breaking them.... even tho its lifetime warantee, and the next nearest Sears is alot further away (this one is literaly 3mins from my house in the mall 2 streets over)

Ah... fun fun.... working on cars on my days off from working on airplanes.... sometimes I get the vibe that all I ever do in life is just work on stuff and fix things..... life is good tho :)

Jesda
12-14-07, 11:37 AM
Man, those old Bimmers are insanely easy to work on too. You'll really enjoy it.

Night Wolf
12-14-07, 11:48 AM
Yeah, everything I've been reading has been pretty good.... yeah it's not the exact model or year I'd want, but oh well... none of that really matters... heck in the least case it would just be a gas saver work car... and somehow I think if it all works out, I'll really enjoy it... I don't see a reason not to.

Oh yeah, the guy confirmed the interior is "brown" I think it's the tan/black two tone, which is really cool, I like that... the all black interior looks sweet on Cadillacs and Lincolns, but in the smaller German car it just makes the car look tiny and sterile....

<---- very excited about the whole thing :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-14-07, 12:11 PM
Never thought I'd see Rick in a German Car.


Welcome. :)

Cadillacboy
12-14-07, 12:17 PM
I think I will be in a German too aside from Mercedes lol

I love Q7's :D

Night Wolf
12-14-07, 01:29 PM
Never thought I'd see Rick in a German Car.


Welcome. :)

lol, I'm not there yet.... if you start to feel a cool draft don't worry about holding the door open ;) :)

Night Wolf
12-15-07, 03:23 PM
Well I guess that was a way to kill 8hrs.

So I drove the Caddy there.... and back... pretty much planning on towing it home.

Well, I didn't get it. The thing was a hack job and appeared to be beat on.... besides the various rust/rot while looking in places, all the wires were pulled out and hanging from the dash, stereo yanked out, some cheapo speakers thrown in the rear deck, the interior was a mess, things flat out missing, aftermarket shifter and the shifter was really loose, missing boot and stuff, it went into the gears fine, even reverse, which on BMW you gotta push further (and harder), like going into a further 1st gear. It had the sports interior, cloth.... but it was a mess and a wreck, glove box was barely hanging by a sting that tied it shut and it was crooked. Both right tires were flat, the rear tires, and especially the right rear were conviently bald, I mean no visable tread at all.... hmmm wonder what that could be? Key was in it but battery was pretty much dead. has some aftermarket fart can muffler thing, that spoiler was totally out of place etc....

I spent about 3mins looking at it, as soon as I saw it I knew I was gonna pass..... that thing was a total hack job. So I came right back.

Oh well, probably better I didn't get another car right now anyway.... however, my eye is now out for a 325i convertible... I'd like to get one of those, I'm just not in a rush. I did like the overall design and layout of the car... looks like it would be a fun little car to drive.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-15-07, 04:43 PM
That's a bummer Rick, I really wanted that to work out. But now you know why there aren't any pics of the interior.

gary88
12-15-07, 05:57 PM
Typical German POS, can't even keep itself in mint condition after 20 years

I keed I keed :D

DaveSmed
12-17-07, 01:16 AM
Yuck, sounds nasty. Bummer it didn't work out, but I think the six cyl is worth holding out for anyway. (unless its a late model 318, they are actually pretty sharp)

EDBSO
12-18-07, 06:51 PM
I think the six cyl is worth holding out for anyway.

I like the two sixes under the same hood.http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/edbso/P1050044.jpg?t=1198021747

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-18-07, 06:55 PM
Oh yeah, you had one of those 850Ci's and said the best day of your life was the day you sold it.

Hah, I know how you feel. Recently, I bought a '99 S320 and have put about $4,000 into it, in repairs and maintenance. And that's not counting the extended warranty that I purchased. But that just about paid for it's self with that claim involving the headgasket.

German cars = not cheap.

Jesda
12-18-07, 09:28 PM
Oh yeah, you had one of those 850Ci's and said the best day of your life was the day you sold it.

Hah, I know how you feel. Recently, I bought a '99 S320 and have put about $4,000 into it, in repairs and maintenance. And that's not counting the extended warranty that I purchased. But that just about paid for it's self with that claim involving the headgasket.

German cars = not cheap.

WEAKSAUCE! You need a 90-93 Q45. It'll put hair on your chest and a dent in your wallet, savings, investments....

EDBSO
12-18-07, 10:45 PM
Oh yeah, you had one of those 850Ci's and said the best day of your life was the day you sold it.

Hah, I know how you feel. Recently, I bought a '99 S320 and have put about $4,000 into it, in repairs and maintenance. And that's not counting the extended warranty that I purchased. But that just about paid for it's self with that claim involving the headgasket.

German cars = not cheap.

Very TRUE!

Bummer on the "S", I particularly thought the 6 was nearly bullet proof. I certainly had a lot of fun with my Cosworth Mercedes but that was a 4 banger, but one hell of a 4 banger.

$4,000 in repairs, HA, it wouldn't even cover the price of parts on a typical 850 repair.

89 Bentley Turbo R is catching my eye as is an Insight . . . go figure???

How big of a bribe did GM accept from Arabs to kill the EV1 and why did it never make it to their balance sheet?

Night Wolf
12-19-07, 05:47 AM
How big of a bribe did GM accept from Arabs to kill the EV1 and why did it never make it to their balance sheet?[/QUOTE]


Rent "who killed the electric car" for a good start to the answering of those questions.

It's my understanding that the E30 dosn't suffer from this overly expensive German car thing..... they seem to be fairly reliable and cheap to maintain, thats what everyone keeps saying, and when checking prices for things, they don't seem too bad....

I'd still like one, for a drivers car, and I'd like a convertible... cause I've been really wanting a fun convertible "drivers" car... I think that would be almost perfect for it.

Jesda
12-19-07, 07:59 AM
The market killed the electric car. Cheap gas at the time and no consumer demand. Why build what few want?

CoupedeVille'73
12-19-07, 09:51 AM
Oh yeah, you had one of those 850Ci's and said the best day of your life was the day you sold it.

Hah, I know how you feel. Recently, I bought a '99 S320 and have put about $4,000 into it, in repairs and maintenance. And that's not counting the extended warranty that I purchased. But that just about paid for it's self with that claim involving the headgasket.

German cars = not cheap.

Having had german (and other europeans like Volvo) cars for over 40 years and having some american cars in between and one right now, I always wonder how sturdy and easy to maintain the cadillac is.
More than that, the prices for spare parts are really small compared with the ones you buy for the german cars. In my eyes it would be a LOT harder to find parts for german oldie in the age of 30 and more than find them for my 73 deville.
But I must say that the cars over here are made for fast and long rides (I'm more a cruiser and don't like chasing around the motorways). Still thats why they are made a lot more complicated and harder to handle.
So thats different and uncompareable cars for different and uncompareable purposes and drivestyles.
I -for myself- would like to have a car with the comfort and completeness of an american cruiser combined with the economy of an Volkswagen TDI engine (of course with a good V8-Sound:cool2:).
Ok, if it comes to a direct comparison, I'd prefer a Cadillac to a mercedes or BMW and a Corvette C6 to a Porsche.
But its just my personal point of view:rolleyes:
so over all:
the prices for cars, parts and service time are far too high here.:mad2:
everything envolved in driving is far too expensive here :crying: