: How can I clean the Mass Air Flow??



leveespector
12-07-07, 08:12 PM
I have a 99 STS and I'm getting a P0101 DTC. I have removed the MAF with the intention of cleaning it. My question is what do I clean? I don't see any wires like in some of the other MAF's I've seen? There are no wires behind the honeycomb?? Can the honeycomb be removed?

There is only a fixed plastic device that runs across the diameter of the unit. Half of this gizmo looks like a thin "blade"

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Chris in Indiana.

eldorado1
12-07-07, 08:18 PM
Mass Air flow cleaner!

(http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Mass-Flow-Sensor-Cleaner/dp/B000EGH57G):thumbsup:

Ranger
12-07-07, 09:48 PM
I have never heard of a MAF sensor that needed to be cleaned unless you are running a K & N oiled filter.

AJxtcman
12-08-07, 09:25 AM
I have a 99 STS and I'm getting a P0101 DTC. I have removed the MAF with the intention of cleaning it. My question is what do I clean? I don't see any wires like in some of the other MAF's I've seen? There are no wires behind the honeycomb?? Can the honeycomb be removed?

There is only a fixed plastic device that runs across the diameter of the unit. Half of this gizmo looks like a thin "blade"

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Chris in Indiana.

That won't fix that code.


Mass Air flow cleaner!

(http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Mass-Flow-Sensor-Cleaner/dp/B000EGH57G):thumbsup:

I would have said not to clean it unless you wanted to replace it. Ar one time GM had a TSB to clean them on 3.8L. The problem with cleaning them is that the cleaner eats the coating off the sensors and wires. So they will fail soon after cleaning.
I see that someone now make a safe cleaner:thumbsup:



I have never heard of a MAF sensor that needed to be cleaned unless you are running a K & N oiled filter.

Yes K&N
I have made a few dollars of that.

Crown Vic Owner
12-08-07, 10:24 AM
K and Ns DO contaiminate MAFS
MAFs do not have there coating stripped by the cleaner, i would know as i clean the MAF in my crown vic every oil change. Things like to get dirty in those cars

Submariner409
12-08-07, 11:17 AM
Don't remove the flow straightener honeycomb. It's there for a reason and doesn't pose any restriction. There should be 3 heated metal resistors across a vertical 3-wire bridge circuit which is part of the central aluminum airfoil-shaped section. The PCM monitors the heat flow and resistance of the bridge and adjusts fuel rates according to the calculated air flow and temperature. The plastic part is a continuation of the airfoil section. Just behind the honeycomb and in the MAF bore there should be a teardrop thermistor, black in color, which is the IAT (inlet air temp) sensor.

I can post a pic of a stock and JET MAF if necessary. (Don't waste your money on an aftermarket MAF.......get an OEM unit from Rock Auto for less than half the price..)

leveespector
12-08-07, 02:31 PM
thanks for the advice. I broke down and bought a reman unit this morning b/c I couldn't wait to order an orig. I have to leave town tomorrow. Anyway, I cleaned the throttle body and installed the new MAF and the car is running smooth.

The engine light is still on, however?

Thanks again.

Chris

Submariner409
12-08-07, 03:40 PM
If the code which set the MIL is now (H)istory, the light will go out after a few successful start/warmup cycles without a malfunction.

IF that doesn't occur, try deleting either the MAF code or all codes to see if that does the trick. If it won't clear the light, it's dealer/Tech II time.

If you don't have any (C)urrent codes now, the light should go out tomorrow or Monday.

Where did you get the reman and how much ???? Good info to file away.....

AJxtcman
12-08-07, 06:07 PM
K and Ns DO contaiminate MAFS
MAFs do not have there coating stripped by the cleaner, i would know as i clean the MAF in my crown vic every oil change. Things like to get dirty in those cars

Clean the MAF with Throttle Body cleaner and see how long it last after that:histeric:

Thermistor, resistors, and hot wires have coatings on them. If they did not have a coating they would oxidise and fail.

This is a cold wire type. This is used on later caddy's
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/46/VZ_MAF.jpg

reformulated gas never damaged injectors either:histeric:

Crown Vic Owner
12-08-07, 07:24 PM
cleaning it with TB cleaner is just plain old dumb.

Submariner409
12-08-07, 08:40 PM
Just for reference, p. 6-723 of the 2002 Seville FSM discusses Code P0103 in some detail.

P0103 is one of several which can be set by a malfunction in or near the MAF. This one refers to rapid heating and cooling caused by water droplet ingestion.

Under "Diagnostic aids.......DTC is set when water or droplets [in incoming air] causes rapid cooling of the hot sensing elements in the MAF, giving a false........."

One pin of the MAF connector carries full ignition voltage, which indicates that the 2002 MAF, at least, is a hot wire sensor.

One slip, break one of those little welded resistor bridges, and you're out $145 for a rebuilt unit or around $225 for a new one.

leveespector
12-09-07, 09:29 AM
Submariner, the unit was 131.00/exchange at NAPA.

The engine light went off and the p0101 code came up as "history". Hopefully that will soothe the beast for a little while, haha.:D

Oh well, at least it was easy to get to.

Chris

AJxtcman
12-09-07, 12:57 PM
cleaning it with TB cleaner is just plain old dumb.

How long have MAF sensors been around?
How long has Carb cleaner been around?
How long has T-Body cleaner been around?
How long has MAF cleaner been around?

So 10 years ago what did you clean a Northstar MAF with?

Can you see my point?

Now I have a question about your car
What is the story with your car?
You have some strange postings about different engines, trans, PCM's, Valve seals on your new engine, and more. What is up with this car?:hide:

Crown Vic Owner
12-09-07, 10:06 PM
Honestly AJ, I wish I could tell ya. I looked through what I could, and I know a few things.

Know the 4k rev limiter that engauges in park, I don't have that. I have odd shift points for a northstar at wot, it does not seem like I have 3.07 gears a sls has. From what I know my car was one of my fathers dealer warranty contracts, went to charge it towards warranty, car sat in litigation without a motor because he was not going to get paid, but had the motor. When I questioned him about what he deal with the motor was, he showed me the old one sitting in back along with some other parts sitting next to it that belonged to it. I was told it was a new motor, but you and me both know that brand new northstars do not exsist. I almost can gurantee for a fact a few things, mainly that the so called new motor has been timeserted;as one of his employees stated that usaully won't lie to me, the o2s were replaced along with all fluids.


I honestly need to get under the sob and pull those numbers you gave me. I am going to grab my camera tonight and see if I can show you guys the lack of a idle rev limiter. All I know is that he won't tell me jack shit about the car, but the shit that has been going wrong, he has fixed including the RSS rear shocks, PS pressure line, and he said he would take care of the rear o2 past the cat that's acting up and the new brakes. Theres a secret about this thing I want to know, as he almost had a stoke when I told him I knew the codes.

I plan on throwing the thing on jackstands asap it gets warm out and getting that damn number.

Is there any id numbers that can be accessed on the cam cover to see if its a l37 or ld8?

Crown Vic Owner
12-09-07, 10:09 PM
Um, I also frogot to add, the reason I asked about valve sals is because I saw a post on here about some people complaining about blue smoke, ad I realized it isn't a discussed issue on here.

Ranger
12-09-07, 10:22 PM
it does not seem like I have 3.07 gears a sls has.
The SLS has a 3.11 final drive.


I am going to grab my camera tonight and see if I can show you guys the lack of a idle rev limiter.
I think the rev limiter is part of the PCM program. Nothing external that you can see, replace or remove.

Crown Vic Owner
12-10-07, 12:30 AM
I have video of me breaking 4k on video, revving to 5500 IN PARK


And also, i meant 3.11, i knew it was around there.



Thats the reason why your the man around here.

Crown Vic Owner
12-10-07, 12:52 AM
wvPNS2nXyhY

Ranger
12-10-07, 04:11 PM
I have video of me breaking 4k on video, revving to 5500 IN PARK
Didn't think that was possible, but it begs the question, why?

Submariner409
12-10-07, 04:38 PM
It should not be possible, BUT don't forget this is a reman engine of questionable lineage, so who knows what PCM has been cobbled in there. Remember, there's a long past history of strange problems, which covers several threads, with this particular vehicle.

Crown Vic himself has complained constantly about the engine and the circumstances surrounding its installation.

Crown Vic Owner
12-10-07, 05:08 PM
yes,

I know, but the PCM cant be modified i thought.


I was talking to 03sts, he claims his eldo can do that too, but he has a jetchip i believe

Crown Vic Owner
12-10-07, 05:18 PM
Didn't think that was possible, but it begs the question, why?

The reason why i did it is to show you im not lying about the lack of a rev limiter.

Submariner409
12-10-07, 05:27 PM
CrownVic.......Nobody says you're lying......We're all sort of throwing around ideas why this engine, apart from all others, will perform acts unknown to N*'s. You have said that you're not entirely sure just WHAT was done to this engine before you got it.

I believe STS2003 is working with AJxtcman as a trial horse in development of PCM programming changes. There are NO "chips" or add-on programmers for the 99-03 PCM N*'s, and I have no idea if [his] '97 ETC does or doesn't have a rev limiter.

Crown Vic Owner
12-10-07, 06:08 PM
Ok, sorry sub, i just got a vibe that you guys thought i was lying.


Either way, the odd thing i realized today when i drove it was that i kicked it in 3rd messing with some guy in a infinity next to me on the way to work, and i hit around 6300 before it shifted.

Also, when i was discussing with sts03, that was his ETC

it does not have a park limiter.
His STS he claimed will only hit 4 in park or n.

The other thing that is bothering me is the slight overheating (10-20 degress hotter than normal, mainly since it has snowed and gotten cold out).

It was almost ready to hit the second mark, and i went and hit it in first gear messing with my friends behind some factories, and i was watching the temp, and it actually went down to just a TAD after the middle and has been staying there. I am starting to wonder if i have a lazy thermostat.

AJxtcman
12-10-07, 08:45 PM
I can rev MY Northstar to 7000 in park!
That is with the stock PCM not the LS1

Ranger
12-10-07, 08:56 PM
What happened to the rev limiters?

bighank
12-11-07, 11:52 AM
Use Brake Cleaner. Remove the MAF unit and DON'T touch ANYTHING.
Let it dry (Helps if you have a warm sunny day but if doing it now take it indoors and let it dry well):cool2:BIGHANK

Crown Vic Owner
12-11-07, 12:02 PM
Use Brake Cleaner. Remove the MAF unit and DON'T touch ANYTHING.
Let it dry (Helps if you have a warm sunny day but if doing it now take it indoors and let it dry well):cool2:BIGHANK
Screw you if your trying to be a ******* to me


if not, what the hell, thats just plain old dumb.

Cadillacboy
12-11-07, 12:12 PM
What's the point of revvin' your engines that high ?

Crown Vic Owner
12-11-07, 12:21 PM
i never normally rev it that high in park


i did it that way to show ranger that the engine actually does not have a 4k rev limiter in park.

Cadillacboy
12-11-07, 01:00 PM
:doh:
I tried once just because I noticed a rattling noise during back up .It didn't go higher than 4K RPM

bighank
12-13-07, 11:57 AM
Screw you if your trying to be a ******* to me


if not, what the hell, thats just plain old dumb.

Why the profane remark. MANY people use brake cleaner on the MAF wires.
Look at other forums. Corvetteforum for instance. NO ONE THERE is wrecking their LS1 with some brake cleaner. To do it right REMOVE the MAF first.

You may be a supporting member but don't need to make insulting and down right crude remarks to someome offering help. ENUF SAID
BIGHANK

Crown Vic Owner
12-13-07, 12:33 PM
i know what brake cleaner does, it eats the hell out of stuff. That coating on those wires will be toast, and it CANT be good running that shit through the intake if it makes it in if you dont remove the MAF.


I will meet all of you halfway and use MAF / Electrical contact cleaner.

I am sorry, i have been dogged on enough on this forum because of BS with my car, so dont take it personally. I was in a really pissy mood as well.

Submariner409
12-13-07, 04:57 PM
Take a look at my second post in the thread "where is my IT sensor?" , click on the pic and scroll in. Now you'll have an idea of what we're dealing with.