: The End



Elmer Fudd
12-06-07, 08:35 PM
Well my short experience as a Caddy N* owner has not been good. I bought my first (and now to be only) Caddy about 18 months ago – a 99 Concours. It had 109 K on it. I hesitated, knowing that N* are relatively high maintenance, but the local dealer had all the maintenance records for the car. The previous owner was a dentist, and she was a fanatic for preventive maintenance. There were nine pages of computer records of oil changes (Mobile 1 only), de-carbonizing, filter changes, several anti-freeze changes, etc., etc., etc. All much more frequent than the book called for.

So I bought it, figuring if any N*’s make it to over 200k, this one would. So I traded in my trusty 86 Town Car and bought it.

Within days it developed a slight lifter tick, I saw it was noted on the maintenance records as an intermittent problem of no consequence that was first noted at about 90 k, but it was annoying. It did pretty good for about 1 year, then the expensive fixes started:

Radiator tank cracked…..$$
Ignition switch……$$
Surge tank broke…..$$$
Main Power cable corroded causing failure of the alternator and battery…..$$$$$$$$
Water pump……$$$$
:banghead:

In 18 months I spent way more keeping this car going than 12 years with the Town Car.

Well today it got the death sentence; antifreeze missing and hydrocarbons in the radiator….you all know what that means. So if you think meticulous maintenance with see you through to high miles, (like I did), not so. I have the paperwork to prove it. :crying2:

Going out tomorrow and start looking for a late model Town Car. The Concours was fun to drive, but it is no fun sitting in the shop.

Thank you all for 18 months of answering my dumb questions, Ranger especially…..you guys are first rate in my book.......

Be Safe:)

devilleconcours100
12-06-07, 10:21 PM
I am sorry to hear about your plight. I have a '94 Concours, and have 191k miles on it, with the original Head Gaskets intact. I have spent plenty on repairs and maintenance over the past 4 1/2 years, since I bought it from a retired Doctor with 114k on the clock, but it's never ran hot.

Dave

Crown Vic Owner
12-06-07, 11:23 PM
what is considered hot for these cars HGs?

Like the death sentence or point where there going?


Either way, i guess if you want to, you can part the car, or better yet, try to maybe fix the HGs yourself?

If your getting a newer towncar and want some tips, give me a PM, i know a decent amount about the ford panther platform and im willing to help, i feel sorry for ya.

Ranger
12-07-07, 12:28 AM
Damn Elmer, can't tell you how sorry I am to hear that. I always hate to see someone leave the "family", especially on a sour note. Best of luck to you.

Crown Vic Owner
12-07-07, 01:23 AM
hah, dont feel bad, i think mine blew a HG tonight, smell antifreeze, and the temp was a lil higher than normal

Elmer Fudd
12-07-07, 08:21 AM
Damn Elmer, can't tell you how sorry I am to hear that. I always hate to see someone leave the "family", especially on a sour note. Best of luck to you.

Sour on the engine, not you guys...you been great.

The car was the most fun I have ever had behind the wheel, but I guess lots of fun = lots of $$$, true in most everything huh??

Elmer Fudd
12-07-07, 08:24 AM
hah, dont feel bad, i think mine blew a HG tonight, smell antifreeze, and the temp was a lil higher than normal

I had been smelling anti freeze for a good while, but it may have been th waterpump seeping. I guess it may have been overpressure in the surge tank pushing vapors out the overflow too.

The gasket isn't so bad as to over heat yet. When I told the dealer about the water pump they also did the hydrcarbon test. She is it was just starting to show up. It still runs fine and at the correct temp, but I loose about 2 - 3 cups of coolant every few weeks.

Elmer Fudd
12-07-07, 08:30 AM
what is considered hot for these cars HGs?

Like the death sentence or point where there going?


Either way, i guess if you want to, you can part the car, or better yet, try to maybe fix the HGs yourself?

If your getting a newer towncar and want some tips, give me a PM, i know a decent amount about the ford panther platform and im willing to help, i feel sorry for ya.


Actually if you dont mind i do have a question. We have a 03 Crown Vic at work that we use for co. business. It has about 130 k on it and has been bullet proof. Standard 4.6, no duals. The acceleration is really pretty good (not like a N* but pretty quick). I guess post 98 town cars are the same engine, more or less, however when I read about them in reviews one of the few down sides quoted is accleration. Consumer reports shows it 2 rating points below the CV or GMarquis. I rented one in Arizona 2 years ago and although it rode well, the pickup was pretty pitiful.

They are both panthers, same engine, .....weight that much different?? Rear end??

I could go with a Grand Marquis if there really is a significant difference in pick up. After the Concours.......well.......I don't want to step down that much.....

Dadillac
12-07-07, 08:54 AM
Actually if you dont mind i do have a question. We have a 03 Crown Vic at work that we use for co. business. It has about 130 k on it and has been bullet proof. Standard 4.6, no duals. The acceleration is really pretty good (not like a N* but pretty quick). I guess post 98 town cars are the same engine, more or less, however when I read about them in reviews one of the few down sides quoted is accleration. Consumer reports shows it 2 rating points below the CV or GMarquis. I rented one in Arizona 2 years ago and although it rode well, the pickup was pretty pitiful.

They are both panthers, same engine, .....weight that much different?? Rear end??

I could go with a Grand Marquis if there really is a significant difference in pick up. After the Concours.......well.......I don't want to step down that much.....
Food for thought only:

A woman I know had a '96 Town Car with over 250k miles. It ran beautifully and she loved that car. Someone ran a stop sign and hit it, and totaled it out. She decided to get a 2004 Gran marquis for replacement (it was less than a year old at the time). Within a year, she began hating it, as she was used to the luxury of the Lincoln. She traded it on an '05 Town Car, and lost several thousand $ in the process. But she is happy again. It seems that once you have luxury, it is damn near impossible to do without it. Her story cannot be an isolated incident. More than likely if you opt for the Ford or Mercury, you will probably be back in a Lincoln shortly afterwards.

Don

Elmer Fudd
12-07-07, 09:21 AM
Food for thought only:

A woman I know had a '96 Town Car with over 250k miles. It ran beautifully and she loved that car. Someone ran a stop sign and hit it, and totaled it out. She decided to get a 2004 Gran marquis for replacement (it was less than a year old at the time). Within a year, she began hating it, as she was used to the luxury of the Lincoln. She traded it on an '05 Town Car, and lost several thousand $ in the process. But she is happy again. It seems that once you have luxury, it is damn near impossible to do without it. Her story cannot be an isolated incident. More than likely if you opt for the Ford or Mercury, you will probably be back in a Lincoln shortly afterwards.

Don


Probably True.......;)

Crown Vic Owner
12-07-07, 11:14 AM
Actually if you dont mind i do have a question. We have a 03 Crown Vic at work that we use for co. business. It has about 130 k on it and has been bullet proof. Standard 4.6, no duals. The acceleration is really pretty good (not like a N* but pretty quick). I guess post 98 town cars are the same engine, more or less, however when I read about them in reviews one of the few down sides quoted is accleration. Consumer reports shows it 2 rating points below the CV or GMarquis. I rented one in Arizona 2 years ago and although it rode well, the pickup was pretty pitiful.

They are both panthers, same engine, .....weight that much different?? Rear end??

I could go with a Grand Marquis if there really is a significant difference in pick up. After the Concours.......well.......I don't want to step down that much.....

rear end and i think minor tuning


honestly, grab a vic, grab a tuner, and grab some 3.55s for the rear end.

The CV does not have duals, thats weird, most have duals, at least fleet models.

I dont have a blown HG i think, i think its a 02 sensor making things whacky.


Honestly, id look at a p71 crown vic is luxury aint your thing, if it is, look at a viccy or a grand marq.

Cadillacboy
12-07-07, 12:02 PM
Sorry to hear about your mishappen .That really sucks , you buy a car w/ a good maintenance record and you learn it's a lemon after a while !
Best of lucks for ya

Lord Cadillac
12-07-07, 12:42 PM
The Town Car is probably a good bit heavier with all it's luxuries - and that'll take some of the power away.. As for the Concours, it's a pretty high-tech car. With high mileage, it's going to have more gremlins than your previous Town Car - which was quite a bit less complicated. Even today, the Town Car is not very complex compared to most other luxury cars in it's class.. It makes for a very comfortable and reliable vehicle...

adamh21
12-07-07, 03:46 PM
That was the problem all along, you should buy a cadillac with no dealership records, thats clean and then drive the piss out of it. Look at how many people are out there hot rodding around with their N*s. Its the people who baby them that always seem to have HG problems....

My theory, give your car a good workout, on a daily...or if you like stoplight to stoplight basis.

SephSTS
12-07-07, 05:45 PM
Thanks the N* engine I'm staying well away from Cadillacs. It's more trouble then it's worth and I didn't much of a thrill from driving it.

And from being to a Cadillac Dealer service shop and seeing how many people were having problems, I think I'll stay well away. Parting this car may come if it doesn't start when we put in a new battery.

Crown Vic Owner
12-07-07, 09:19 PM
meh, change the headgaskets. Id personally rather have a ford DOHC motor at times, but the northstar is stronger than the ford mod motors with exception to the headgaket issues and the case seals.

Lord Cadillac
12-08-07, 12:45 AM
Thanks the N* engine I'm staying well away from Cadillacs. It's more trouble then it's worth and I didn't much of a thrill from driving it.

And from being to a Cadillac Dealer service shop and seeing how many people were having problems, I think I'll stay well away. Parting this car may come if it doesn't start when we put in a new battery.
I've had several Northstar Caddys with no problems. They're excellent engines. You can go to ANY service shop and find a bunch of people having problems... That's the only reason people go there. Did that slip your mind?

Crown Vic Owner
12-08-07, 02:13 AM
honestly, i say keep the damn thing, and make it a few months long project to go ahead and change some HGs.

I mean, its a bitch to do, but a fun project none the less.

The almighty lord, the thing is, the northstars DO have WAY more HG issues than most motors, thats a given, so i understand where he is coming from.

Id be a little ticked if this happened too.

Elmer Fudd
12-08-07, 08:11 AM
I've had several Northstar Caddys with no problems. They're excellent engines. You can go to ANY service shop and find a bunch of people having problems... That's the only reason people go there. Did that slip your mind?

You point is perfectly correct. Similarly, befor buying ANY car, if you visit a forum like tis one, you will think they are the biggest pieces of s**t there is. People go to shops with problems, people come here with problems....same thing.

The difference is, the first car I bought with my first job as a 79 Cutlass (V8). Eventually ran that engine to 1/4 million miles. At about 100 K the headgastket blew. This would have been about 1985. It cost about $280 and took a couple hours in the dealship to fix.

But did it run like a N*, of course not.....you get what you pay for. Howver IMHO, the cost of N* repairs exceeeds the "fun factor".

Now that is just me.

Looking at a 02 Park Ave today, talk about no fun......LOL !!!

Elmer Fudd
12-08-07, 08:15 AM
[QUOTE=Crown Vic Owner;1320968]honestly, i say keep the damn thing, and make it a few months long project to go ahead and change some HGs.

I mean, its a bitch to do, but a fun project none the less.

QUOTE]


That is Waaaaay above my level........

Tried a 06 Grand Marquis .......mid range power disappointed. Didn't seem like it wanted to shift when it should. Ride was mushy.

Tried a 03 LTC Cartier, much better, but worth the $$ ? They are discontinuing them and dealers want top $$$.

May trie another year Grand M today, or even, dare I say it????, A CV....

Zorb750
12-08-07, 01:50 PM
...
Looking at a 02 Park Ave today, talk about no fun......LOL !!!

Get yourself a Park Avenue Ultra, put a smaller pulley on the supercharger, and start hanging around with Grand Prix GTP guys for modding ideas. It's the same powertrain.

Elmer Fudd
12-08-07, 08:53 PM
Well settled on an 05 Grand Marquis LS. Silver with charcoal leather inside. Runs much better than the 06 I test drove....dunno how that should be.

Low speed acceleration is great, as good as the Caddy was. Higher speed pickup can't match the N*L, but it is adequate at least.

Anyway it was a great deal, 33k on it, and the dealer (Toyota) gives a 7 year 100 K powertrain warrenty...sweeeeeet

hehe......so even if this 4.6 blows a head gastket....its covered....

You guys take care.......you have been a blast and a GREAT resource

Crown Vic Owner
12-09-07, 05:30 AM
4.6s never blow HGs


trans are the weak points in those engines

Cadillacboy
12-10-07, 06:09 PM
perhaps so are the air suspension system for them lol