http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=123863

I like front from regular CTS Better

I'm almost heart broken. The bottom of that bumper looks ricey. :(

Not liking the grill a whole lot?? But that side view shot looks killer!!

the angle it sits looks awesome! back and side shots look great, but i'm with jon on this one: not liking the bottom part of the front grille much

:helpless:
Eh... to each their own
Not liking much of any of it, except the hood.
Rear bumper looks even more ricey.
And what's with all the chrome bling? Fender vent, side window trim, trunk lid? :vomit:
Hope the engine/drive train make up for it.
The Gen I is looking even better IMO.
The wife took one look at and said it looks out of proportion.
Doesn't like all the chrome either.

But - it's not like I was planning on putting down a deposit on one anyway.

Not liking it much but maybe it will grow on me. Did they go to D3 for that front bumper cover?

The headlights actually look too small from that angle

Dissapointed!

Looks like a 4 door m35 or something. I'm not as pumped as I was. I hope that changes.

Hmmmm, interesting. The side view looks hot, the rear view looks hot, the front I'm still meh on.

My god, why do people still write that it will have a NA LS-7 when you can clearly see the bulge for the supercharger. Silly.

But FINALLY some real pics to disect. Thanks!

Keep in mind those photos are from a long ways away and are not the best quality. I didn't really like the regular CTS until I saw one... I don't think the car photos well, but it looks great in person. That being said, WTF the bumper looks out of proportion...

I am going to withhold judgement until I see some higher quality and more detailed pix. I guess should happen in about 1 month.

But, as for what I think at this very moment, it looks quite a bit like the current STS-V in proportions and also in some of the other small details. It looks OK, but I am not floored by the looks.

Looks very clean, interesting that the V badges are on but there is no "supercharged" badge like the STS-V and XLR-V. Like the staggered tire sizes and apparently six pot brakes. Too much chrome, lower front grille is derivative at best, always thought our V grille was quite a stand out original.
But 600 hp would go a long way towards warming me up. Reference to 525 hp hopefully is wrong.

i think i will keep my 07 for a while. just starting the nitrous install anyway.

Something is wrong with the front end photo, it's not formatted right or something because the entire front looks ENTIRELY too narrow to be proportionately correct.

This will definitely have to be one of those see it in person cars. Pics just arent going to do it justice.

I know this will be an uncommon opinion but I'm still glad to hear there will be an automatic version of the CTS-V. As mentioned in the Edmunds article, the CTS-V is, so far, a failure in regards so sales. I like the fact that Cadillac is in the performance game. But they can not and will not stay if nobody is buying the vehicles. The automatic will change this negative trend tremendously...

That's the ONLY reason I switched to an SRT8 was to have an automatic. :lildevil:

Autos are faster in a straight line.

Autos are cool if you only have 1 leg. And even then, I'd still rather operate the clutch pedal with a toilet plunger.

Hmmm....interesting to see what they have done. This seems to be pretty close to what we have been told. Although there are some rear quarter panel treatments that are not shown on these images....I guess we have to wait to see what they actually release in Detroit. I am sure they are looking for feedback prior to releasing the final version. Remember, change is good. Not everyone will like it, but it will grow on you.

Dr. Design
D3

Its funny that I saw the same thing on the corvette forum when the C6 was coming out... it'll end up growing on everyone and the gen1 v will look outdated in a couple years :(

Jay

Its funny that I saw the same thing on the corvette forum when the C6 was coming out... it'll end up growing on everyone and the gen1 v will look outdated in a couple years :(

Jay


This is how it usually works. The people who paid a lot of money for the previous generation are the last to endorse the new one.

I think the new one will be vastly superior to the current V in every conceivable category except maybe weight. I think it looks much better too even if the front end is not too inspired.

The wheels look like the same one's used on the up-coming Pontiac G8, chromed perhaps but still from the common parts bin... I was hoping for something exclusive... We'll have to see what shoes she wears in January...

I like the look from the side and the 3/4 front view... The arse?... Never was a fan of the big booty...

Autos are cool if you only have 1 leg. And even then, I'd still rather operate the clutch pedal with a toilet plunger.

:yeah:

so does that mean 5 lug wheels?

It would appear so Jimmy... How's she gonna haul around all that "lard" with only 5 lugs? ;)

that front bumper covers gonna get a license plate mounted on it... maybe that will take away from the huge front bumper cover?

I can't wait to order one. If they hit production in time for spring delivery though it would be a great surprise. I'm not getting one in the fall (RSA's have poor traction and the "all season" F1's are anything but all season). So it may be spring of '09 for me unless there is some miracle like all season tires that work in winter and still stick, or AWD.

After all this hype, I'm a little disappointed. I think a modification of the standard grille would look better, such as mesh background with body colored transverse ribs like in the CTS Sport (SEMA) instead of the ugly gray bars. Or possibly blacked out plastic background with the body colored ribs. I think the chrome lip around the mesh in the Edmunds photos makes the grille look aftermarket cheesy. I prefer the proportions of the standard grille better with the upper part being much larger.

Other preferences:
1-Yellow or red calipers
2-Rear diffuser
3-Another inch lower

Now if the car came in at 525 hp, I'd also be a little disappointed after hearing Lutz speak of the power output being "surprisingly high."

Anyway, I still want it as soon as it's released.

These pictures turned down the volume on my enthusiasm..... I hope the real thing looks better. The ground effects kit looks cheap and doesn't flow well and the rear is worse. Something out of a import show..... I will save final judgement till the pics are official....:hmm:

remind anyone of the sts-v?

Seems like Motor Trend hit the nail right on the head about a year ago.
http://images.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2007/112_0707_02z+2009_cadillac_cts_v+front_three_quart er_rendering.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/future/09.cadillac.cts.v.b/09.cadillac.ctsv.f34.500.jpg

nope, they had the V logo in the wrong spot

the 08 CTS has such a distinctive grille, they messed around with it too much

Mine from a month ago was much nicer IMO
http://www.ontariocts.com/images/09v3.jpg

I just got back from my local dealer and they took a deposit for the 09 v... I have first dibs on Black. The fast color.

After all this hype, I'm a little disappointed.

Now if the car came in at 525 hp, I'd also be a little disappointed after hearing Lutz speak of the power output being "surprisingly high."

Anyway, I still want it as soon as it's released.

Agreed. Lutz was saying suck the doors off an M5. Thats a tall order. I saw the new V-10 at the track. It is nice. I think 90K base. If the new "V" is more than 60K, I'll be bummed. Especially if it only has 525HP. Yeah, I said only.

Car Magazine in England insists that it will be LS-7 power and that the hood bulge is to acomodate 4 wheel drive somehow, interesting read.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/secret_new_car.php?sid=1329&page=1

still not thrilled by the DTS looking rear,too flat and just wrong proportions.
I'm not impressed by the distinctive looks of the new V.

Seriously,you really have to look hard(OK,not from the front) to notice it.
The current V's rear quarters panel have more bulge to it and give it its muscular look.
Oh well,let's wait and see...

Autos are cool if you only have 1 leg. And even then, I'd still rather operate the clutch pedal with a toilet plunger.

BWAHAHAHA

Hmmm....interesting to see what they have done. This seems to be pretty close to what we have been told. Although there are some rear quarter panel treatments that are not shown on these images....I guess we have to wait to see what they actually release in Detroit. I am sure they are looking for feedback prior to releasing the final version. Remember, change is good. Not everyone will like it, but it will grow on you.

Dr. Design
D3

Go back to the CTS or STS-V forums. Rather yet, just go away.

D3 - Laughed at by all, respected by none.

Car Magazine in England insists that it will be LS-7 power and that the hood bulge is to acomodate 4 wheel drive somehow, interesting read.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/secret_new_car.php?sid=1329&page=1

Morons. They have no idea what this saloon has under the bonnet.

-Chris

I'm liking the new V. Almost all cars grow on me, so starting with like is a good spot (although a few angles look weird). I didn't like the first CTS pics and now I'm liking it. Disapointed with 525hp. Motor Trend was saying 600 recently. If it's going to stomp the M5 or an AMG it needs more horses, or a very high torque number. The reg. CTS has 300 horses and it's acceleration numbers are pretty disappointing. The 335 (much lighter) beats the CTS to 60 by almost a second.
I'll be looking at the auto to shut up the wife (I don't like our stick anyway), but they need to stay close to the outgoing's price or I'll be out of the game.

Fred, 525-550 hp, 59k. That's my prediction.

Fred, 525-550 hp, 59k. That's my prediction.

My prediction is pretty close:

Horsepower (hp) = 525-535
Torque (ft-lbs) = 480-500
Weight > (greater than) 3850 lbs
Price = $58,000.00 - $60,000.00
Options = 1. moonroof/no moonroof
2. automatic/manual
3. 3-4 color choices (maybe black, grey, white diamond, etc.)

And I hope that it doesn't even get offered in an AWD setup. More weight and more $$$.

small picture....


these are better:) http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac-cts-v.html

I STRONGLY suspect invoice will be $56K or under, regardless of MSRP.

Guys- Consider it a *blessing* if this car gets a 525hp SC V8 to compete against a 600hp V10. It will literally take 1 hour of modding and a tune ($500 total) to be 'sucking the doors' off of a 100k M5. You have so much more flexibility with an intergrated factory blower, this car is going to be a modders wet dream. The key is that unlike an aftermarket supercharged application, this motor will have internals built to withstand forced induction and high compression. That is the expensive and time consuming part of modding that will not cost any of us a dime out of the showroom.

I am going to get a new car next year. Currently, I have the first production slot at my dealer. The other cars I am considering are they M5 and M6. I have looked at them both, but haven't gone for a test drive. I am waiting until after Jan 20 to go for a test drive. So, based on the above, I have a few questions:

- how soon would some aftermarket stuff be available, expecially given that this a new engine? we had a to wait a year after the 'o4's came out before a cold air intake was functional, much less a supercharger or anything else. when i ordered my V (April 05), the Corsa was available as a line item on the purchase, but was a few months from delivery. the FG2 shocks were available, but i didn't know anything about them at the time. So, will there be a 1-yr lag before anything interesting comes along?
- pulley swap - from what I have been able to gather, a pulley swap is good for about 40-80 hp, with similar torque gains. is it really that easy, and does this exist now?
- tunes - will custom tuning be available right away, or will there be some learning curve to that as well?

From the numbers, it looks to me that the M series is a little low on torque, whereas the V will have plenty. I won't know until I drive the M.

The CTS-V's "cam in block" design will most likely utilize essentially the same tables as the LS6 or LS2, albeit with different values and obviously a MAP sensor for pulling timing under high boost.

Rick at StealthV or any other good LSx dyno tuner will be able to tune this car to run on a smaller pulley as soon as the pulley is available (which you can count on being quick courtesy of the 'Vette guys).

- pulley swap - from what I have been able to gather, a pulley swap is good for about 40-80 hp, with similar torque gains. is it really that easy, and does this exist now?

Yes. OEM superchargers leave boost on the table, usually for NVH reasons.
Often you do not even need an ECU update though it will run better with one.

First mod: powder coating. Lots and lots of powder coating.

First mod: powder coating. Lots and lots of powder coating.

Fuzzy Dice - Biotchux!

-Chris

http://www.ontariocts.com/images/Fixed09.jpg

Fixed up the front a little

http://www.ontariocts.com/images/Fixed09.jpg

Fixed up the front a little
Can you please do the rest of the chrome and the wheels... . Please, please:thumbsup: After reading this thread over again and looking real hard at all the pics. I have to say its growing on me. Still not sure about the rear though and the fog light area. On the positive side the rear tires look huge and the brakes look huge with 6-pot fronts and the wheels do seem to have a deep offset more like BMW yummm:thumbsup:

Thx Jon. The wheels are fine but... the grill, the side 'vent,' the window trim chrome, and the thingie on the back all need to be body color.


Second mod: somebody figures out how to get the amber out of that sealed unit.

If I have a minute I'll do that tomorrow.

For that pic I was just doing what I'd want. Bigger grille, black mesh, fixed up the bumper so there aren't "cheeks". Fixed teh bottom of that bumper too.

First of all, yes the infamous S/C "upper" pulley swap may be dollar-for-dollar the greatest garage mod of all time.

Regarding potential HP gain with a pulley swap, it all depends on the stock pulley and blower. The size of the pulley determines how long of a belt you use and therefore how fast the crank turns your supercharger. When you go with a smaller diameter pulley, the pulley spins faster and turns the blower faster, increasing boost. More boost = more air through the motor = more power. If the chassis is stout like I expect it to be (i.e., minimal supporting mods to get the extra power to the wheels), you can be looking at up to 150rwhp increase. Some things to first consider, however, are the safe operating range of your blower and the agressiveness of your tune.... turning the wick up can cause detonation if fuel delivery can't keep up = risk of blowing your motor. So you have to be careful.

Here are the current unknowns:

1. The size of the upper pulley that GM will use. (larger stock pulley = greater potential for aftermarket gains).

2. The ease of pulley swap (upper pulley typically requires a pulley removal tool, however some manufacturers are designing blowers that mount the upper pulley in the rear so that it is difficult to remove, or else integrating the pulley into the blower housing making it impossible to remove without a blower swap. i don't expect this issue with the new GM motor, but it is nonetheless a concern).

3. The type and efficiency of the blower. (guessing roots style blower that will be good for up to 100-150hp increase with a pulley swap and port job).

4. The size and mod-ability of the lower crank pulley that GM will use. (this one is typically rated in pounds and is more difficult to remove, but can also be changed for significant increases in torque).

5. Supporting mods (primarily fuel delivery, wheel hop, etc.)


************

To top everything off, installing an aftermarket twin-screw style blower on these cars should be relatively straightforward and result in MASSIVE hp gains, since the internals will already be built for forced induction. A $3k blower and $1.5k worth of supporting mods + tune could net you 200-300rwhp increases easy. If you compare that to the cost of the car, it is a minimal investment for M5 killer performance gains.

first mod; better insurance company

Pulley for sure. I used to have fun doing easy mods on SC 3800s. Down to about a 3.4" pulley the factory calibration worked great for the ECU, though the traction control could not do much anymore. You are so right about the built up internals on a boosted engine.

I like the blacked out mesh but leaving the chrome accents all around. Might even look good with black racing wheels.

:tisk: Now thats not very nice. As we certainly appreciate your brilliant remarks as it would be great if you actually had a valid reason to make such remarks in regards to D3. Nevertheless our support will continue. While we continue to devlop products for your fellow Cadillac owners, we will be sure to provide you with numerous opportunities to actually experience D3 first hand rather than trendy vendor bashing.
Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3

BWAHAHAHA



Go back to the CTS or STS-V forums. Rather yet, just go away.

D3 - Laughed at by all, respected by none.



Morons. They have no idea what this saloon has under the bonnet.

-Chris

Very good points!!
Its our understanding that GM is using the new Gen6 blower produced by Eaton. Although this blower is VERY efficient, they (GM) should have left a little bit on the table. The question is how do you unlock it. As we have seen with the 4.4 SC motor, GM left a lot to be desired in the intercooling system. Furthermore there will be a great deal of hurdles to jump as the engineers are fully aware of what the gearheads will do to these cars once they get their hands on them. But as always, its just a matter of time before they all figure it out.

The Supercharger Pulley will be the same as the non-serviceable pulley that is offered with the 4.4 Northstar motor. This means you will have to machine off the bolt and use a new fastener for the new pulley. Quite a lot of work considering what you would have to do. Not to mention, if you mess up you have to purchase a complete new blower as it will only have (1) main part number with a ton of non-serviceable supporting part numbers.

Just food for thought....

Dr. Design
D3


First of all, yes the infamous S/C "upper" pulley swap may be dollar-for-dollar the greatest garage mod of all time.

Regarding potential HP gain with a pulley swap, it all depends on the stock pulley and blower. The size of the pulley determines how long of a belt you use and therefore how fast the crank turns your supercharger. When you go with a smaller diameter pulley, the pulley spins faster and turns the blower faster, increasing boost. More boost = more air through the motor = more power. If the chassis is stout like I expect it to be (i.e., minimal supporting mods to get the extra power to the wheels), you can be looking at up to 150rwhp increase. Some things to first consider, however, are the safe operating range of your blower and the agressiveness of your tune.... turning the wick up can cause detonation if fuel delivery can't keep up = risk of blowing your motor. So you have to be careful.

Here are the current unknowns:

1. The size of the upper pulley that GM will use. (larger stock pulley = greater potential for aftermarket gains).

2. The ease of pulley swap (upper pulley typically requires a pulley removal tool, however some manufacturers are designing blowers that mount the upper pulley in the rear so that it is difficult to remove, or else integrating the pulley into the blower housing making it impossible to remove without a blower swap. i don't expect this issue with the new GM motor, but it is nonetheless a concern).

3. The type and efficiency of the blower. (guessing roots style blower that will be good for up to 100-150hp increase with a pulley swap and port job).

4. The size and mod-ability of the lower crank pulley that GM will use. (this one is typically rated in pounds and is more difficult to remove, but can also be changed for significant increases in torque).

5. Supporting mods (primarily fuel delivery, wheel hop, etc.)


************

To top everything off, installing an aftermarket twin-screw style blower on these cars should be relatively straightforward and result in MASSIVE hp gains, since the internals will already be built for forced induction. A $3k blower and $1.5k worth of supporting mods + tune could net you 200-300rwhp increases easy. If you compare that to the cost of the car, it is a minimal investment for M5 killer performance gains.

Just wait till the twin screw Kenne Bells and Whipples come out to replace that heaton. I like the looks aside from the mustang FR500 wheels.

Those aren't FORD wheels... They're off the New Pontiac G8... Common wheels from the giant GM parts bin...

Those aren't FORD wheels... They're off the New Pontiac G8... Common wheels from the giant GM parts bin...
Close, but that's it.

Not the same wheel.

You've got a keener eye than me if you can spot the difference... Chromed maybe...

Those aren't FORD wheels... They're off the New Pontiac G8... Common wheels from the giant GM parts bin...

Really? All I am saying is they are a little too similar.

:tisk: Now thats not very nice. As we certainly appreciate your brilliant remarks as it would be great if you actually had a valid reason to make such remarks in regards to D3. Nevertheless our support will continue. While we continue to devlop products for your fellow Cadillac owners, we will be sure to provide you with numerous opportunities to actually experience D3 first hand rather than trendy vendor bashing.
Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3

Well I thought we had finished this in PM, but since you took the time to post this up. Here ya go.

Ya I guess it's trendy to bash vendors. But wait:

#1 You are no longer a vendor on this forum. You indicated via PM, that it was a misunderstanding with Sal, blah blah blah. Either way there was obviously an issue. This undemines your shaky credibility (see #2)
#2 You guys WAY over promised and under delivered. Again this tanks your credibility.
#3 You had the earth's worst marketing slogan. "Envied by some, Respected by all." Respect is earned, not given. You also hae to actually produce products to be envied.

I'll be honest that I haven't looked at your offerings for a while. Last time I checked basically everything for the CTS-V was 'comming soon'. there are a bunch of vendors that offer the same stuff you do or plan to for the CTS-V, and it's available now. Why should I be excited about your offerings, when thus far you've failed to deliver and have very limited credibility. I'll pass on D3. There just too many others out there, and I have too litle time to spend waitong or hoping on you.

There's my OPINION. I'm done with this conversation. I won't bash or offer my $0.02 on you anymore.

Ho,Ho, Ho!

-Chris

Things were finished. If you look at my post you will notice it was done prior to our communication via PM.

Again there are no issues with Sal. Never really was, just a bunch of misleading theories about what was going on.

Also that marketing slogan was based, not on D3 products, but on the status of Cadillac's vs. their European counterparts.

Thanks,

Dr. Design
D3

Well I thought we had finished this in PM, but since you took the time to post this up. Here ya go.

Ya I guess it's trendy to bash vendors. But wait:

#1 You are no longer a vendor on this forum. You indicated via PM, that it was a misunderstanding with Sal, blah blah blah. Either way there was obviously an issue. This undemines your shaky credibility (see #2)
#2 You guys WAY over promised and under delivered. Again this tanks your credibility.
#3 You had the earth's worst marketing slogan. "Envied by some, Respected by all." Respect is earned, not given. You also hae to actually produce products to be envied.

I'll be honest that I haven't looked at your offerings for a while. Last time I checked basically everything for the CTS-V was 'comming soon'. there are a bunch of vendors that offer the same stuff you do or plan to for the CTS-V, and it's available now. Why should I be excited about your offerings, when thus far you've failed to deliver and have very limited credibility. I'll pass on D3. There just too many others out there, and I have too litle time to spend waitong or hoping on you.

There's my OPINION. I'm done with this conversation. I won't bash or offer my $0.02 on you anymore.

Ho,Ho, Ho!

-Chris

http://www.jon04ctsv.com/images/09vwheel.jpg

gotta admit, those are very close
at a glance, they are the same wheel
good lookin wheel either way

Here is the drawing for the 09 rim. Don't know if I should be showing it to you guys but w/e. :bouncy:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38279&stc=1&d=1198203016

Here is the drawing for the 09 rim. Don't know if I should be showing it to you guys but w/e. :bouncy:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38279&stc=1&d=1198203016
Doesn't show up

Doesn't show up
hmm...ok, here you go.

Similar to the G8, but definately different. I like it.

You guys have a very keen eye and an ability for magnification...;)

They are different at the hub. However, looking from a distance, they appear to be the same wheel... I'd like something unique to the "V"... I guess that's why they make the aftermarket eh?

Thanks for pointing out the differences! ;)

The G8 is the V's little brother so I do not mind the commonality in the wheel appearance. The new V will be the logical upgrade path for a G8 owner wanting to go upscale and up power.

The G8 owners have a great headstart on modifying their car since it is already out in Australia as the Commodore VE. One company has a twin turbo conversion complete and another has already dropped in an LS7. I doubt our upgrades will be so quick in coming except the easy ones like pulley, calibration, intake and exhaust.

Can somebody please blow up the front wheel pic? I'd like to see the front brake caliper .Looks real nice from a distance.:)

If you blow it up, it will just be fuzzy

Actually, the G8 is a bigger car, though not by a lot. And have I missed anyone noting that they've gone back to 5 bolts?

And have I missed anyone noting that they've gone back to 5 bolts?

yep :yup:

We were noting the 5 lugs back when all there were pictures of were the mules with checked masks on them. :)

holy old thread batman

holy old thread batman

:histeric:

holy old thread batman


http://www.ciws.net/smiles/batman.gif