: Engine Locked Up!!!!!!!!!!!! Neeed Help!!!!....please



Roswell256
05-04-04, 03:41 PM
OK... I just found out today that they said they found the problem... they said the ENGINE WAS LOCKED UP!!!!!!

How does that happen just sitting there?? I drove the car over to work (about 1mi down road) then parked with the nose down hill....then when I came out to start it to go somewhere at noon......NOTHING...it was fried.... THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN..... WTF!!!!!!!!!!! now the caddy dealer closest to me wants between $7k and $8k to fix it.... sooooooo no worth it.... or is it?? Bad strut, bad engine, bad A/C, small dent in side, and thats it... plus I just put on a new waterpump, and the heater supply and return pipes!!!.....

I'm flippin out here.... I really need some advice..... is it worth the money to get it fixed?? Would it be too hard to do it by myself if I have a full blown mechanic shop at my disposal?? Where could I get a new engine if I wanted one??? Will anything else fit in there if I can get one?????

dloch
05-04-04, 04:45 PM
OK... I just found out today that they said they found the problem... they said the ENGINE WAS LOCKED UP!!!!!!

I'm flippin out here.... I really need some advice..... is it worth the money to get it fixed?? Would it be too hard to do it by myself if I have a full blown mechanic shop at my disposal?? Where could I get a new engine if I wanted one??? Will anything else fit in there if I can get one?????I would get the car back to the base and your shop. I would then get it on a lift and remove the right front tire and the splash shields in the right front wheel well. You will see the nut on the end of the crank, I believe it's a 22mm..... Put a socket on the end of an extension and with a breaker bar see if the motor turns over. If it doesn't, remove all the spark plugs and try it again, if you had a bad, and I mean bad head gasket leak you could of hydrauliced a cylinder although I would think you would have known if you had that bad of a head gasket leak. If it still doesn't turn over remove the serpentine belt and try it again

Motor don't just lock up while they sit, unless like I said you had a bad head gasket leak, or the car is under water............

(obviously I didn't read the other posts..........:hmm: )

Roswell256
05-04-04, 05:14 PM
Its going to be towed back here to base. I'm getting it back so that I can work on it myself. I'm priceing new northstars as we speak.... I'm hoping to just rebuild it or maybe its something else. I don't understand how they can say its a whole new engine... they never even told me what specifically was wrong with it.

I'll keep you all updated on what I find
Thanks

dloch
05-04-04, 05:19 PM
Its going to be towed back here to base. I'm getting it back so that I can work on it myself. I'm priceing new northstars as we speak.... I'm hoping to just rebuild it or maybe its something else. I don't understand how they can say its a whole new engine... they never even told me what specifically was wrong with it.

I'll keep you all updated on what I find
Thanks
I would think a new engine would be expensive... Where are you located?? Call Alan at chrfab, he may have an exchange engine. If not he does have parts for N* engines.

I would still try to turn it over with a breaker bar before removing it.

Roswell256
05-04-04, 07:28 PM
Call Alan at chrfab I will

I'm located just south of DC in Northern Virginia.

I found this
EBAY (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2476751098&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)
that gives me hope that there are descent engines out there that will work.

Thank you for your help

BeelzeBob
05-04-04, 10:30 PM
The thing you want to do is to pull the spark plugs and try turning the engine over at the large nut on the harmonic damper as described.


If an injector were to stick open it could have flooded a cylinder with fuel and hydrostatically locked it...if that is the case then you will get a bunch of fuel out one cylinder when you turn it over with the plugs out....this would be good news as the engine is probably OK if this happened...just replace the injector.

eldorado1
05-04-04, 10:49 PM
The thing you want to do is to pull the spark plugs and try turning the engine over at the large nut on the harmonic damper as described.


If an injector were to stick open it could have flooded a cylinder with fuel and hydrostatically locked it...if that is the case then you will get a bunch of fuel out one cylinder when you turn it over with the plugs out....this would be good news as the engine is probably OK if this happened...just replace the injector.
Or else a leaking headgasket that flooded one cylinder... Pulling the plugs would let you know for sure... If it is a fuel injector, it would be a really easy job.

Roswell256
05-05-04, 07:00 AM
You guys all rock....thank you for your help.

Does anyone know if its worth $1oo diagnostic fee to have a second opioned given on it?

or should I just tow it back here and work on it myself??? I'd liike the second opinion myself because if it turns out not to be that....they can tell me exactly what it is.

saves me time I guess..... I want to do the work myself if it isn't too hard. But they said they wouldn't be able to get it in until next week tuesday. I'll just have it towed back here for myself to work on. Maybe a weekend with it in the shop and I won't have to take it for a second opinion. HOPEFULLLY. I love my caddy!!!!

Roswell256
05-05-04, 09:14 AM
I talked to the place that told me it was locked up and they said that they put a breaker bar on the harmonic dampener and it woulndn't turn...... They didn't diagnose it any further to see what it was. I'll check for beeing hydrostatically locked when I get it back here.

P.S. I was getting a "Rick Fuel System" error code before it "locked up" ... could that have been the precurser to a bad fuel injector??

BeelzeBob
05-05-04, 11:47 AM
I talked to the place that told me it was locked up and they said that they put a breaker bar on the harmonic dampener and it woulndn't turn...... They didn't diagnose it any further to see what it was. I'll check for beeing hydrostatically locked when I get it back here.

P.S. I was getting a "Rick Fuel System" error code before it "locked up" ... could that have been the precurser to a bad fuel injector??



YES.

eldorado1
05-05-04, 01:04 PM
Dun dun dun... the plot thickens.

Roswell256
05-05-04, 01:34 PM
Dun dun dun... the plot thickens.LOL.... I hope it turns out a happy ending.:worship::worship: (closest thing to praying I could find)

OK...just unloaded the car off of the tow truck... it will have to wait until I can get off of work to look at it. If it is in deed a bad fuel injector and the engine is fine, I'm going after my $80 bucks :brutal:as well as towing fees :bouncer:to get it from there to here... as I would have been able to drive it had they fixed it. I'll keep you all posted on whats up.

BeelzeBob
05-05-04, 01:47 PM
Realize that from everything that has been explained you are likely to get a shower of gas out of the spark plug port when you remove the plugs and try to turn it over....disconnect the 12 volts to the coil pack and /or route the spark plug wires away from the spark plug ports. All that gas spewing out and loose spark plug wires arcing to nowhere could spell trouble.....keep a fire extenguisher handy.

Roswell256
05-05-04, 01:49 PM
I was just planning on turning the engine by hand once I had removed all of the plugs. Should I just remove them one by one? and try to start it? Also if I do turn it by hand....it turns clock wise right?

BeelzeBob
05-05-04, 01:59 PM
Remove ALL of them before you try turning it over. I would remove all of them and turn the engine by hand to be safe. Put some rags over the spark plug ports to catch the fuel if you do hit the starter with the plugs out. I suspect when you pull the plugs you will find a "wet" one and recognize the problem. If this is it and an injector is all it needs then also make positively sure to change the oil as it will likely have a LOT of fuel in it.

Roswell256
05-05-04, 08:23 PM
OK...... I have GOOD NEWS

First thing I tried this afternoon was to pull the plugs. Then I took a breaker bar and tried to turn it....NOTHING. OK... so then I realized...the belt was still on

So the second thing I did was remove the belt.... BINGO.. engine turned like butter.

With the plugs out I rolled it over with the ignition.... turned beautifully....

I then proceded to put the plugs back in and try to roll it over with the starter.... worked for just a sec then started to click like nothing was happening...

So I took the breaker bar to the harmonic balancer... it turned but with more resistance... as expected.

I then proceded to take the 4 recessed bolts out of the top... and tried to lift the intake..... well it doesn't come up very far... so I went around taking off as much stuff as I could find.... still no luck...that darn throttle body on the right side is just NOT letting it go.

I'll have to play some more and I've brought the manuals back so I can read through them... but this is what I found out.... I'm thinking its the starter is fried. Which is fine. A LOT BETTER THEN A NEW ENGINE. I'm going to go back and see if they will reinburse my diagnostic fee as well as TOWING...

THANK YOU SOO MUCH EVERYONE..... I WISH I COULD SEND MONEY...but I dont have any to send.

-Roswell-


Oh one more thing... when I pulled the hose off for the air intake and I looked at the choke thing.... there was brown sludge on it.... I take it this should be cleaned?

dloch
05-05-04, 10:48 PM
Now your getting somewhere......... :)

Make sure yo check all your battery cables. How old is is the battery? Did you run it down while you were trying to start before?

Next you will have to find out what is locking up the motor when the belt is on.

Be patient you get it all figured out and save some money in the process..... well you will save what you were going to put toward a new motor.

Roswell256
05-06-04, 07:36 AM
I think its the A/C compressor holding the belt. I trued to turn it with my hand and it wouldn't move. Unless maybe I can move it with my hand.

I want to take out and bench test that starter. But I can't find how to get the intake manifold off far enough to get to it.

Also I think your right about the battery. When I had a bunch of the parts off of the engine... I turned the key to roll up the windows and when I'd hit the switch. .... the cousel would blink and fade and flash then come back up. I figure my battery must be dying or going bad. Its pretty old, neither would suprise me.

dloch
05-06-04, 09:39 AM
When you tried to remove the intake have you released the fuel lines? You need a tool that you can get at most auto parts stores to release the clips. Before doing that I would either charge the battery or replace it and try spinning the motor with the starter. If that goes well figure out whats up with the air conditioning compressor. The bearing may have locked up on it. The motor will still start and run with the belt off though.

Good luck keep use posted about you results.

Roswell256
05-06-04, 09:42 AM
Can I replace the clutch / clutch bearing with out haveing to discharge the A/C system?

dloch
05-06-04, 09:48 AM
Can I replace the clutch / clutch bearing with out haveing to discharge the A/C system?
I believe that is possible but can't be sure without looking at the service manual. Try calling an air conditioning shop and ask them..... FYI I just bought a new air conditioning compressor..... $ 328.00 reman was about $ 100.00 cheaper, warranty was the same. I find it best to be armed with information going into a situation or project so you know worse case senerio... In any event even if you decide to change the compressor you are still money ahead of an engine change or rebuild not to mention look at all the experience you are getting......:rolleyes:

Dennis

BeelzeBob
05-06-04, 11:05 AM
If you have the correct puller you can remove the AC compressor clutch/hub/bearing and replace it without removing the AC compressor or discharging the AC. If the hub bearing is locked up it would prevent the pulley from turning...but...it it has failed to that point it may have hurt more than just the clutch/hub/bearing assembly. It is fairly easy to remove, however, working thru the right front wheel well, so it is worth a shot before you remove the compressor.

You may have a "dual failure" with the starter and/or battery having been damaged trying to crank when the compressor was locked up. If the engine couldn't turn and the starter was held it could have overheated and damaged windings in the starter armature....so....be understanding that there may be more than one thing to fix here...

dloch
05-06-04, 12:02 PM
Bbob... Good point about the dual failure... Cause and effect

Roswell256
05-06-04, 12:51 PM
I'm going to put it back together and put a smaller belt on to bypass the A/C . Then charge/replace the battery and see if it works. If it does I'll drive it like that. If it doesn't then I'll pull out and bench test and maybe replace the starter.

I talked to the people that did it and asked that we come to a compromise. Sence I shouldn't have had to pay for the towing back as I should have driven it. And the mis-diagnosis, I proposed a discount on the A/C work that I still want them to do. I'm waiting until the owner of the place calls me back and lets me know whats up.

BeelzeBob
05-06-04, 01:05 PM
Don't waste the time with the shorter belt. The engine will run fine with the serpentine belt completely off of the front of the engine. The water pump has it's own belt, remember, so the car won't overheat without the serpentine belt on the front. You won't have power steering, of course , and the battery will not run the car for more than 10-15 minutes without charging but that is more than ample to confirm that the problem is solved and to drive the car to a shop for the AC work.

Roswell256
05-06-04, 01:07 PM
True True...but I was hoping to use the shorter belt to get the car to a useable state so I can save the money for the A/C...

Roswell256
05-07-04, 11:57 PM
How do I post pictures? I kjnow about the URL thing. But where do I uplad them too?

RBraczyk
05-08-04, 12:20 AM
You can still run the belt over the a/c compressor can't you.

Roswell256
05-08-04, 12:25 AM
No the compressor is super locked up..... it won't move

Roswell256
05-08-04, 12:40 AM
Here is what my engine is dealing with after 110k

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1826/password//sort/1/size/medium/cat/500/page/here (http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1829), here (http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1828), here (http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1827) and here (http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1826)
http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1827http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1829/password//sort/1/cat/500
http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1826

BeelzeBob
05-08-04, 02:09 AM
Looks pretty normal I would say....that is why you need to clean those phenolic spacer plates out and the notches that are machined into the cylinder head at each intake port....lots of carbon buildup from 110K....clean it out and move on.

The oil in the valley is likely from the head gasket starting to seep at the front of the engine... I wouldn't worry about it , really, unless it gets much worse. Put a towel in there to soak up the oil when you put it back together....LOL.

Roswell256
05-08-04, 03:54 PM
Ok. I've found out that the Starter is shot. But sence I can't get the fuil system disconnected so that I can get the intake manifold off of there I'm just going to send it to the dealer. they will have all the gaskets and tools they will need to get it all off and back on again. Thank you for the help. I have a much better idea of whats down tehre now.

Oh I also found a rat nest in the well behind the starter. noone home but not sure how they got there. I didn't have the camera when I took the nest out so I didn't get any pics of it.

Koz
05-08-04, 11:54 PM
listen to bobinski he knows his stuff

zonie77
05-09-04, 01:39 PM
I've seen 2 GM compressors that have locked up similar to this. I think if the clutch starts dragging it causes the compressor to turn all the time(slower than if the clutch was locked up granted) and eventually causes the compressor to lock, probably because the oil isn't being moved through the compressor enough.