: v8 conversion kit on ebay?!?!



texanwitharake
11-24-07, 10:35 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Catera-LS1-LS6-V8-engine-conversion-parts_W0QQitemZ150186091339QQihZ005QQcategoryZ6763 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem was scanning ebay and noticed it thought i would toss it up

todd2fst4u
11-25-07, 02:29 AM
yeah i saw it too. too bad it really doesnt come with anything.
"You will still need to supply many of the major components such as the transmission, engine, wiring harness, engine computer etc"

Warez
11-28-07, 01:54 PM
So did anyone bid on it?

RunningOnEMT
11-28-07, 02:41 PM
"You will still need to supply many of the major components such as the transmission, engine, wiring harness, engine computer etc"

keep in mind that all this stuff will come with any good engine pull out

contact contemporary corvette ...ebay username fparts

elvin315
11-28-07, 07:33 PM
Lingenfelter bought this stock from Opel. It's what remains of the aborted Omega V8 project. The car was very close to full production when GM shut it down due to cooling issues at sustained Autobahn speeds. That would never have been a problem here but since Cadillac had the CTS & STS coming there was no market, in the eyes, for a Catera V8.

If a V8 swap was easy we would all have done it by now. Yes this "kit" lacks the engine & tranny but it does offer a lot of the incidental parts needed to make it all fit into the Catera's small engine bay. You can't go to Pep Boys and buy LS1 motor mounts for a Catera. Those exhaust manifolds are sculpted to clear the chassis and engine components and still flow the exhaust gases efficiently. The drive shaft built to the correct length and balanced. The HD diff to transfer the power to the wheels. These are things you would need and have to fabricate anyway. Why not benefit from the millions Opel spent to engineer them?

It's details like these that will turn your project from a cobbled together shadetree curiousity that will never be quite right into a professionally finished performance car. If I had the money and skills to do it right I'd be in my garage right now. If you can't do the whole 9 yards either then at least snap up the brake and suspension parts which have got to be better than what Cadillac deemed we should have.

Elvin

R-Caddy
11-28-07, 08:26 PM
Ooohh, it's even got AUTO tranny shift assembly. F... that $#!t ! And 3.08 differential- to make it even slower after you put auto tranny in it? I don't think so! GTOs come with 3.46 and Cateras with 3.90 And I'll be going from 4sp auto to... 4sp auto with lower gears?... So I can get beat by a... let's say... 350Z or a WRX? They say: if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself! To me it looks like somebody realized they got the wrong parts and is now trying to get rod of them... Plus, many of those parts (manifolds, water pump, ignition coil, plug wires) are included in the engine/trans combo anyway... Just my opinion...

elvin315
11-28-07, 09:07 PM
... Plus, many of those parts (manifolds, water pump, ignition coil, plug wires) are included in the engine/trans combo anyway... Just my opinion...

What engine/trans combo?

Elvin

MyOpel
11-29-07, 01:20 AM
Ooohh, it's even got AUTO tranny shift assembly. F... that $#!t ! And 3.08 differential- to make it even slower after you put auto tranny in it? I don't think so! GTOs come with 3.46 and Cateras with 3.90 And I'll be going from 4sp auto to... 4sp auto with lower gears?... So I can get beat by a... let's say... 350Z or a WRX? They say: if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself! To me it looks like somebody realized they got the wrong parts and is now trying to get rod of them... Plus, many of those parts (manifolds, water pump, ignition coil, plug wires) are included in the engine/trans combo anyway... Just my opinion...
So I guess the automatic c5 corvette was super slow with 2.73 gears or the 4th gen Camaros (I think they had the same 2.73)! Just because the kit comes with an automatic shifter dose not mean you have to use it. There is also the possibility to change out the rear gears.
Although some of the parts that come in the kit usually come with V8 combos if you look closely youll notice that many of the parts are different.
Sure there may be many cars faster still but it also depends on what motor you buy, if you buy an early ls1 out of an f-body youll only have about 100 more hp, but if you chose to to go with an ls2, ls6, or ls3 youve doubled your hp. There is also a very good performance aftermarket for these motors and its not very costly to achieve over 500 hp anymore.

From your post is seems like you think that going with a 4speed auto and the 3.08 rear the v8 will perform equal or worse then our current configuration.
Let these stats sink in:

--------1996 impala ss--------Catera sport
weight----4220lb-------------3900
engine-----260hp -------------200hp
trans----4 speed auto-----4 speed auto
diff-------3.07----------------3.90
--------14.9-----------------15.9

so with only 60 more hp and more weight the impala is a second faster.
With this kit and an auto 300hp ls1 your probably get low 14s. do a cam and ez get into the 13s :)

Warez
11-29-07, 09:33 AM
Ooohh, it's even got AUTO tranny shift assembly. F... that $#!t ! And 3.08 differential- to make it even slower after you put auto tranny in it? I don't think so! GTOs come with 3.46 and Cateras with 3.90 And I'll be going from 4sp auto to... 4sp auto with lower gears?... So I can get beat by a... let's say... 350Z or a WRX? They say: if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself! To me it looks like somebody realized they got the wrong parts and is now trying to get rod of them... Plus, many of those parts (manifolds, water pump, ignition coil, plug wires) are included in the engine/trans combo anyway... Just my opinion...

The 3.08 differential ratio was intended for steady cruising on the Autobahn at 200-250 km/h (120-160 mph). This car was also going to use the 4L60E (3.06, 1.63, 1.00, 0.70) instead of the 4L30E (2.40, 1.47, 1.00, 0.72) which has different gearing; also keep in mind that the LS1 produces no less than twice the torque of the 3.0L V6, so the gearing is not required like on our cars.

No production V8 manifolds will work on our car, so these are necessary as are many of the other parts that you think are the same.

R-Caddy
12-03-07, 02:16 PM
And I guess that's why never let V8 Catera into production, bevause it woud have still been too slow to compete with BMW and others. Keep in mind that the driveshaft was made to fit a 5-SPEED, lenghtwise. The ^-speed that comes with Camaros, Trans Ams, GTOs and Corvettes is probably different. So you would end up getting the driveshaft to later find out it was wrong length.
Any LS1/transmission combo (eBay for exampe) includes computer, exhaust manifolds, water pump etc., so a lot of that stuff is unnecessary. Well, radiator and other parts wooud come handy, but plug wires...?
And how come the manifolds don't work on a CAR? I thought they fit the engine... :hmm: Since engine bay would be empty and would the new tranny is fitted, I don't see how they wouldn't fit. By the way, GTO is only 2" wider, so... cut and paste... lol:histeric:
Low 14's... :thepan: why even put an LS1 in it then... My friends 350Z runs better than that... Stock LS1 GTO runs high 13's with 100lb extra weight... Who is going to put an LS1 in Catera and make it a daily driver? NOT ME!!! that's for sure... :stirpot:

GunmetalCatera
12-04-07, 02:19 PM
I still think it'd be cool to create a V8 Catera. Awesome sleeper if you ask me.

MyOpel
12-05-07, 11:59 AM
And I guess that's why never let V8 Catera into production, bevause it woud have still been too slow to compete with BMW and others.
That is not why they did not put it into production, what BMWs are you comparing it with?

Keep in mind that the driveshaft was made to fit a 5-SPEED, lenghtwise. The ^-speed that comes with Camaros, Trans Ams, GTOs and Corvettes is probably different. So you would end up getting the driveshaft to later find out it was wrong length.
LSX motors never came with a 5speed, the Omega V8 was supposed to get the 4L60E automatic 4 speed which is the same length as the T-56 6-spped manual trans. (driveshaft comes with the kit)

Any LS1/transmission combo (eBay for exampe) includes computer, exhaust manifolds, water pump etc., so a lot of that stuff is unnecessary. Well, radiator and other parts wooud come handy, but plug wires...?
Youre going to have to replace the plug wires some day, the water pump, ac pump, power steering pump that come in the kit are all different.

And how come the manifolds don't work on a CAR? I thought they fit the engine... Since engine bay would be empty and would the new tranny is fitted, I don't see how they wouldn't fit. By the way, GTO is only 2" wider, so... cut and paste... lol
The manifolds that come in the kit are completely different then any available on production vehicles. Any other manifolds simply will NOT clear the steering box. Although the GTO is a very similar chassis it is not the same, it is as you said 2wider and uses rack and pinion steering so it does not have to clear a steering box.

Low 14's... why even put an LS1 in it then... My friends 350Z runs better than that... Stock LS1 GTO runs high 13's with 100lb extra weight... Who is going to put an LS1 in Catera and make it a daily driver? NOT ME!!! that's for sure...
Low 14s is an example I gave using the lowest powered LS1 (98 camaro 300hp)
Your friends 04 GTOs LS1 has had some factory revisions including the LS6 intake and if you decide to use that motor you will probably be in the high 13s as well.

MyOpel
12-05-07, 12:31 PM
Who is going to put an LS1 in Catera and make it a daily driver? NOT ME!!! that's for sure... :stirpot:
Why not? The majority of our reliability issues are related to the drive train, replacing the drive train will eliminate: leaking valve cover gaskets, timing belt replacements, crappy bosch MAF, Oil cooler problems, TCM, tiny open rear diff... Hell after you fix all the problems that regularly occur with our drive trains the kit and LS1 swap pays for its self.

R-Caddy
12-05-07, 03:55 PM
Guys, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be an @$$hole. I know what you are saying. But let's be honest: you want reliability- get a Corolla! Likely even much cheaper that way. Low 14's would only be seeing M3 taillights from a great distance. I'm not even talking about any V8...
Dropping a V8 into a Catera is a challenge by itself and a lot of customizing needs to be accomplished. There is no straightforward swap. Yes, that kit may make it easier, but you would stil have to make THAT KIT fit. Plus, how many of those kits are there? Like the orange Steinmetz Catera? One of a kind? There was a link somewhere that had the specs of a V8 Catera, and it said 5-speed manual. Well, somebody will have to do it. I just hate to be the one to step up ;]
Thanks for your time to read this crap :D

Warez
12-05-07, 05:06 PM
Guys, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be an @$$hole. I know what you are saying. But let's be honest: you want reliability- get a Corolla!

Actually swapping an LS1 will improve the reliability over the stock V6. No cam-belt changes, constant oil leaks and troublesome Bosch electronics.



Likely even much cheaper that way. Low 14's would only be seeing M3 taillights from a great distance. I'm not even talking about any V8...

The M3 only makes 333hp and weighs 3400-3500 lbs.

A simple cam swap can net 400-450hp for an LS1. A Catera with that kind of power can easily see high 12’s.

I’m planning to build an LS3 based 6.2 L for my conversion using GM Performance Parts CNC ported heads. This engine can easily make 500-550hp.

It would not be very difficult to do the conversion and not see M3 headlights in your rear view mirror.



Dropping a V8 into a Catera is a challenge by itself and a lot of customizing needs to be accomplished. There is no straightforward swap. Yes, that kit may make it easier, but you would stil have to make THAT KIT fit.

The kit removes the need for any fabrication. All that is required essentially is the electrical aspect. There is no need to make anything “fit” with these parts.



Plus, how many of those kits are there? Like the orange Steinmetz Catera? One of a kind? There was a link somewhere that had the specs of a V8 Catera, and it said 5-speed manual.


I have a scan from the GM technical service manual for the LS1 Catera. There was only going to be a 4-speed automatic (4L60E) and indeed no 5-speed manual or auto.

R-Caddy
12-11-07, 09:02 PM
Actually swapping an LS1 will improve the reliability over the stock V6. No cam-belt changes, constant oil leaks and troublesome Bosch electronics. And LS1 (surprisingly?) also had cooling issues with back cylinders.



The M3 only makes 333hp and weighs 3400-3500 lbs. And runs low 13's

A simple cam swap can net 400-450hp for an LS1. A Catera with that kind of power can easily see high 12s. You're kidding, right? :cookoo:

Im planning to build an LS3 based 6.2 L for my conversion using GM Performance Parts CNC ported heads. This engine can easily make 500-550hp.

It would not be very difficult to do the conversion and not see M3 headlights in your rear view mirror.



The kit removes the need for any fabrication. All that is required essentially is the electrical aspect. There is no need to make anything fit with these parts.



I have a scan from the GM technical service manual for the LS1 Catera. There was only going to be a 4-speed automatic (4L60E) and indeed no 5-speed manual or auto.
Yeah, you can built the hell out of an LS1. Now, you're either going fast or you're not. Obviously, those exhaust manifolds would have to go to be replaced with headers. Catera V8 headers in that kit? Might as well replace everything else to make a stock LS1 feel as at home in order to later work on it (intake, exhaust etc.) Don't get stuck with parts that will eventually have to be upgraded. Aaand... that's going to be a problem...

Kcryan
12-14-07, 09:43 PM
I'm with R, just buy a different car if you want that kinda speed

Warez
12-15-07, 06:44 PM
And LS1 (surprisingly?) also had cooling issues with back cylinders.

You're getting mixed up and are misinformed. Rear cylinder cooling is an issue on the stock V6, not the LS1.

These engines have operated without issue in numerous 24-hour endurance races including Le Mans, 24-hours of Daytona, 12-hours Sebring, 24-hours of Nurburgring and numerous others all quite successfully. There are also people making 1000+ hp with these engines. This would not be possible if the engine had cooling issues


You're kidding, right?

Not at all.

You have just stated that the M3 runs low 13's with 333hp.

That is a power to weight ratio of approximately 10.5 hp / 1 lb.

A catera at 3750 lbs with an LS1 and mild modifications will easily make 450 hp.

That equates to a power to weight ratio of 8.3 hp / 1 lb.

An M3 will stand no chance.

Also keep in mind that the M3's engine is completely maxed out from the factory with no tuning potential left. The only “reasonably” priced power upgrade for an M3 is an $8000 supercharger. Even Borla does not make any claims of power gains for their M3 exhaust, instead only claiming that it is lighter and get rids of the horrid raspy exhaust note.




[COLOR=black]Yeah, you can built the hell out of an LS1. Now, you're either going fast or you're not.

A completely stock LS1 makes 350 hp which will already make the Catera a power to weight ratio of 10.7 hp / 1 lb matching an M3.


Obviously, those exhaust manifolds would have to go to be replaced with headers. Catera V8 headers in that kit?

Headers are not the only performance upgrade one can do to an engine.


Might as well replace everything else to make a stock LS1 feel as at home in order to later work on it (intake, exhaust etc.) Don't get stuck with parts that will eventually have to be upgraded. Aaand... that's going to be a problem...

The mufflers included with the kit are a straight through design exactly like those that you would get from Borla or any performance exhaust company. No need to replace them.

Additionally most of the parts included have no effect on the engines performace; such as the front subframe, engine mounts, much larger brakes, radiator, various brackets, differential, driveshaft, wiring etc.

Warez
12-15-07, 06:50 PM
I'm with R, just buy a different car if you want that kinda speed

Sounds good if one was available at this price.

elvin315
12-15-07, 07:11 PM
Give up. They just don't understand. The Spirit of Hotrodding is dying in the younger generation. It's all bolt-ons, nitros, and E-Proms for lots of them. That or trade up. Old farts like me know that building real horsepower is more satisfying than buying it.

Elvin