: Northstar Dyno Registry



AJxtcman
11-24-07, 03:00 PM
Information we all will want
Car info
YEAR
MODEL
ENGINE: C 250HP, Y 275HP, 9 300HP
MODIFICATIONS: CAMS CAI EXHAUST CONVERTER ect.
PCM & ELECTRONICS: MEMCAL PCM PROGRAM MAF ect.

Dyno info
DATE
TEMP
MANUFACTURER & MODEL
FACILITY (optional)

Readings
Max Horse Power
Max Torque

Horse Power @ 2000
Torque @ 2000

Horse Power @ 3000
Torque @3000

Horse Power @ 4000
Torque @ 4000

Horse Power @ 5000
Torque @ 5000

Horse Power @ 6000
Torque @ 6000

AJxtcman
11-24-07, 03:11 PM
First time on the dyno - all new to me. The way I understand it is the hp and torque readings were at the wheels.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5044/scan0002qm3.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0002qm3.jpg)

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9819/scan0001ga2.th.jpg (http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0001ga2.jpg)

MJJ
2002
DTS
300hp VIN 9
Stock other than a k&n air filter and A.J.'s tune

10/01/2007
temp??
Dyno = Mustang MD-1100-SE
Midwest hybrid in Mad town

Top Speed: 154

0 - 60: 6.28
(twice in 3rd - got better times when not in drive...)

1/4 mile: 14.53211 @ 93.80144 mph

wieght entered was 4000lbs.

I'll scan the hp/torque sheets soon. it was like 222/214 torque/hp.

I will try to repost the sheets

AJxtcman
11-24-07, 04:20 PM
GM Media Files, SAE Certified dyno sheets

2007 Northstar 300HP VIN 9
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/9-1.jpg


2007 Northstar 275HP VIN Y
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/Y-1.jpg

AJxtcman
01-03-08, 11:24 PM
I am trying to figure out the file/software.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/gizmo.jpg

AJxtcman
01-03-08, 11:27 PM
I am trying to figure out the file/software.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/gizmo.jpg

I will get back to this, but it looks like it is high @ 4000.

AJxtcman
01-10-08, 12:32 AM
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/codewize.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/codewize2.jpg

I forgot this one

Look at the HP difference at 34 MPH from mine and stock

75 hp:duck:

CadillacSTS42005
01-10-08, 01:46 PM
check with Hitmoney
i know he dynoed his after the corsa
theres a vid of it somewhere

CadillacSTS42005
01-10-08, 01:47 PM
ha found it!
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/75675-so-i-put-my-sled-dyno.html

AJxtcman
01-10-08, 03:26 PM
It wasn't a really good dyno weather day, but what the hell... I was bored and I found a shop close to my house with a Dynojet Dyno.

The temp and humidity today did not make for a perfect dyno day and they told me that as they spent a half an hour trying to get a good tach hook up to the dyno. They don't get many N* there I imagine. I think they were trying to talk me out of it. LOL

Anyway, mods to my N* are a Volant air box and Corsa exhaust.

Max HP at the wheels was on the first run, 233.88
Max TQ at the wheels was also on the first run, 232.34

I wasn't real happy with these numbers, but the people at the shop and some from surrounding shops all came to see the "DeVille" on the Dyno.
They all were astonished at how it sounded. One guy said he has heard modded Corvettes on the Dyno that didn't sound half that good. :)

They also told me they were respectable numbers, and that for a "DeVille" they were outstanding. They said it would probably pull 10%-15% better on a cooler less humid day.

I was really hoping to get near 300 at the wheels... but that looks out of reach for now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/hitmoney/Caddy/scan0001.jpg



Thanks :D

AMGoff
01-10-08, 03:32 PM
Is it just me... or does that SAE Certified GM Media file that AJ posted show that a 300 horse Northstar isn't all that more powerful than a 275 horse one... well gee-golly.. I like graphs, especially when they seem to back up things I've said in the past.

dwight.j.carter
01-10-08, 04:38 PM
There isn't much difference except in features and the 275 northstar has a better torque curve.

AJxtcman
01-10-08, 07:12 PM
Is it just me... or does that SAE Certified GM Media file that AJ posted show that a 300 horse Northstar isn't all that more powerful than a 275 horse one... well gee-golly.. I like graphs, especially when they seem to back up things I've said in the past.


There isn't much difference except in features and the 275 northstar has a better torque curve.

The VIN Y 275hp has more torque and lower RPM (up to 5000) Horse Power. The 300hp has 3.71 gears. The Pontiac Bonneville has the 275hp with the 3.71 gears. The Caddy's use 3.11 gears with the 275hp. Hmmm More torque and you swap the gears to the 3.71 and you will get great performance. Hmmmmm I did that and I can tell you that I have one happy camper:bouncy:

AMGoff
01-10-08, 07:34 PM
The VIN Y 275hp has more torque and lower RPM (up to 5000) Horse Power. The 300hp has 3.71 gears. The Pontiac Bonneville has the 275hp with the 3.71 gears. The Caddy's use 3.11 gears with the 275hp. Hmmm More torque and you swap the gears to the 3.71 and you will get great performance. Hmmmmm I did that and I can tell you that I have one happy camper:bouncy:

I'd have to probably guess that the VIN Y 275 Northstar + 3.71 gears would make for the best possible setup. I just might have to go find a V8 Bonnie to take out for a spin just to see what it's like. I only found that sheet interesting because some try to make it seem as if the VIN Y is some lazy, slow slouch compared to the VIN 9 - something I've never really been able to fully understand.

AJxtcman
01-10-08, 07:42 PM
I'd have to probably guess that the VIN Y 275 Northstar + 3.71 gears would make for the best possible setup. I just might have to go find a V8 Bonnie to take out for a spin just to see what it's like. I only found that sheet interesting because some try to make it seem as if the VIN Y is some lazy, slow slouch compared to the VIN 9 - something I've never really been able to fully understand.

BTW this is only for 00+ cars. The 99 and prior car the 300hp was a stronger engine than the 275hp

dwight.j.carter
01-10-08, 08:22 PM
So since I have an STS what I should do is change my cams and I would get the same great performance ?

CadillacSTS42005
01-10-08, 11:58 PM
Is it just me... or does that SAE Certified GM Media file that AJ posted show that a 300 horse Northstar isn't all that more powerful than a 275 horse one... well gee-golly.. I like graphs, especially when they seem to back up things I've said in the past.

can you read a graph?
i clearly see a Vin 9 rated higher than a Vin Y...

CadillacSTS42005
01-11-08, 12:00 AM
a Bonni GXP with 371 and 275 hp actually clocks in at about the same 1/4 as a 98+ STS considering the Bonni weighs less that doesnt really boost my confidence in it more either
and in top end the STS will slaughter the Y powered Bonni

AMGoff
01-11-08, 12:44 AM
can you read a graph?
i clearly see a Vin 9 rated higher than a Vin Y...

I can read a graph, can you... how about basic english? How bout we take another gander at what I said:

Is it just me... or does that SAE Certified GM Media file that AJ posted show that a 300 horse Northstar isn't all that more powerful than a 275 horse one... well gee-golly.. I like graphs, especially when they seem to back up things I've said in the past.

Reading and comprehending are usually good, especially before you fire off one of your little quips.

CadillacSTS42005
01-11-08, 12:46 AM
lol
no one ever said it was a 1 million hp monster
it was claimed to be a 25 hp improvement
and it is roughly about 20 give or take a few
you make it sound like it holds less power

and quips rofl i like that

CadillacSTS42005
01-11-08, 12:55 AM
yup def works

BlackCaddy87
01-11-08, 12:38 PM
how much horsepower does the 4t80 take away from the northstar

CadillacSTS42005
01-11-08, 12:48 PM
i think its about 1/4

BlackCaddy87
01-11-08, 01:02 PM
If thats true then my 95 Y northstar has 306.25 hp and 335 torque on the motor

codewize
01-11-08, 06:26 PM
I think it's closer to 30% maybe just over 30%. We've seen VIN 9 dynoed at 215 - 220 HP and that a 300HP engine so it's at least 28%

AJxtcman
01-11-08, 07:41 PM
Can we get a POOL going on My car and Highline Cady's car

My car
Bone stock 99 Deville engine
MOD's: 355 Ferrari muffler, 3.71 gears, PCM
I am taking three PCM's


Stock Caddy PCM (300 hp)

Stock 108 MPH PCM (275 hp)

Tuned Caddy PCM

LS1 PCM



Highline Cady's car
Stock Engine
MOD's: Volant CAI, Tuned PCM, Corsa Exhaust, 3.71 gears
I am taking several PCM's


Stock 03 DHS (275 hp) THIS IS A MUST

A tuned PCM that is currently in the car THIS IS A MUST

A non OBD II 2000 DTS (300 hp) PCM (leaded gas)

A stock Taiwan PCM (300 hp)

A Stock German PCM (300 hp)


I guess I need a poll on which ones to run on Highline Cady's. We get 3 runs each. I will buy one more for Highline Cady.

Guess what #'s we come up with:stirpot:

Highline Cady
01-11-08, 09:40 PM
Looking forward to tomorrow, we'll run three of these on the dyno, see what the numbers say. I'm going to stop at the trucker weight scale later tonite to see what she actually weighs also. AJ or myself will post results, I'm sure by tomorrow nite. Later, gentlemen.

codewize
01-11-08, 10:02 PM
Oooohhh I can't wait for this. Weather permitting I'm going to put my 3rd PCM in this week.

MM STS
01-11-08, 11:21 PM
Oooohhh I can't wait for this. Weather permitting I'm going to put my 3rd PCM in this week. 3rd how many does your car take?

codewize
01-12-08, 03:51 AM
Well, because my car is cool I can stack PCM's to get even more HP from the N*. See by doing this we can trick the car into reading invalid code that appears to be valid. Makes room for more adjustability.


3rd how many does your car take?

AJxtcman
01-12-08, 07:16 AM
The little yellow Turd weighed in at 2710 lbs:cool:

AJxtcman
01-12-08, 05:06 PM
Saturday is appointment only:lies:

Give me a few days to cool off.

I drove about 70 miles one way for NOTHING:mad:

codewize
01-12-08, 08:58 PM
Dude I had the same feeling but at least I got to put the car on the dyno.

AJxtcman
01-12-08, 09:37 PM
Highline Cady passed up a free Packer game ticket today for this. :rant2:

MM STS
01-12-08, 09:48 PM
Saturday is appointment only:lies:

Give me a few days to cool off.

I drove about 70 miles one way for NOTHING:mad:

I feel for you. I know excited you all were to get it done. :crying2: Someday we'll get there. I have not heard anyone upset with the tune so that's a plus. One of these days I'll be at a point again to do what I said. I'd like to have been done with the upgrade ages ago myself. Now works giving me grief about light duty so I am still on hold here. Sorry Highline missed the Packers game. Glad he is a trooper to the cause. :thumbsup:

AJxtcman
01-14-08, 07:49 PM
I have a new dyno time with a new guy. He is a porsche guy and a friend of the guy that gave me the blower:D
In two week. :crying2: but it is $200 for 8 runs on two cars. 4 each.

codewize
01-14-08, 11:29 PM
Wow. Well good luck. If there's something we can do to get my car back on, as I told you, I'll go back down in the spring.


I have a new dyno time with a new guy. He is a porsche guy and a friend of the guy that gave me the blower:D
In two week. :crying2: but it is $200 for 8 runs on two cars. 4 each.

Highline Cady
01-15-08, 02:38 AM
Still pissed that the dyno dude never showed, but at least I can get back to the forum with out flaming this **** to much. We'll get to a dyno yet.

GizmoQ
01-15-08, 03:23 AM
AJ, I know my dyno numbers are disappointing but did you ever get around to reviewing the data? No matter which way I read it, looks like run 2 was the best at 222.1 FWHP and 259.3 torque. The guy at the dyno said my aftermarket air intake screwed everything up and recommended I do a MAF relearn with the stock intake. He also said that after reviewing the Air-Fuel ratios stock vs. ram-air that there was definitely some HP to be gained there but it would require modding the ram-air to relocate the sensor and adding a freeflow exhaust, 20 more FWHP possibly. Something about running too lean with the ramair.

GizmoQ
01-15-08, 04:28 AM
Oops, I read it wrong (figures). The HP at the wheels from the raw data says 223.47HP and the torque at the wheels was 1322.603 lbft (258.2ftlb at the flywheel).

Now that I look at it, I'm closer to HitMoney than I thought I would be. Beat his torque numbers and as soon as I do the exhaust should beat his power numbers, too. This could get interesting ;)

AJxtcman
01-15-08, 08:31 AM
Oops, I read it wrong (figures). The HP at the wheels from the raw data says 223.47HP and the torque at the wheels was 1322.603 lbft (258.2ftlb at the flywheel).

Now that I look at it, I'm closer to HitMoney than I thought I would be. Beat his torque numbers and as soon as I do the exhaust should beat his power numbers, too. This could get interesting ;)

Your numbers look good. I need to play in the program some to figure out more of it.
I keep saying the Max # is not everything. Increasing torque at low RPMs is better on the street

Highline Cady
01-15-08, 11:12 AM
:yeah:

GizmoQ
01-15-08, 06:39 PM
Your numbers look good. I need to play in the program some to figure out more of it.
I keep saying the Max # is not everything. Increasing torque at low RPMs is better on the street

Unfortunately, we couldn't run low RPMs. The first try was in 3 and it kept downshifting, the second try was in 2 and torque management screwed with us on the low end, so we eventually settled on recording 3500-5500RPM - that way the tech could "take a running start" at the dyno before it started pulling. I agree max # is not everything and you can tell from the chart the torque curve is pretty shallow by the time it starts recording, so I was impressed.

Maybe this Spring you can send me a stock PCM so we can put this to bed. By the end of May I'll be changing out the intake and exhaust, so we have a deadline.

AlBundy
01-15-08, 08:44 PM
I gotta keep up. I didn't know you went to the dyno. Kool.

CadillacSTS42005
01-15-08, 09:15 PM
IMHO your loosing more hp than you could ever gain with your intake Giz
even the intake on MY ETC is stock bar the K&N filter i put in it when i take her to the track
put'r back to stock bro

codewize
01-16-08, 12:05 AM
But has anyone touched my HP / Torque numbers? I had a bad run and I'm still the one with the best numbers here.

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-08, 12:31 AM
shall i bring up my ETC?
lol
juz kidding code you know i luv ya bro

codewize
01-16-08, 09:55 AM
LOL Hey I did put down 235 on a crappy run. That's better that what I'm seeing from others :)

BlackCaddy87
01-16-08, 12:11 PM
245 hp and 268 torque at the wheels...think you can touch that:tisk:

AJxtcman
01-16-08, 12:36 PM
245 hp and 268 torque at the wheels...think you can touch that:tisk:

No problem

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-08, 12:46 PM
rofl
AJ spits on you black lol

AJxtcman
01-16-08, 12:52 PM
rofl
AJ spits on you black lol

:shhh:

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-08, 12:58 PM
pwnd....

BlackCaddy87
01-16-08, 01:44 PM
you don't count

AJxtcman
01-16-08, 02:37 PM
you don't count

WHY?
You don't have a an OBD II car:thehand:

BlackCaddy87
01-16-08, 02:53 PM
Fine you win...even though mine is a REAL Cadillac!!!

BlackCaddy87
01-16-08, 03:05 PM
You should be able to come up with a mean program for my car then since its an obd1...its tax time and I'm getting plenty back this year so lets go for it. Maybe get 75 shot of nitrous JUST for the track because they have 100 octane...not really supposed to use nitrous with a chip unless you have the fuel to go along with it. I would bring back some interesting timeslips!!!

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-08, 04:40 PM
or dont waste his very valuable time and contact westers since they have been doing it for a LONG time...
seeing how he doesnt count and all lol

just kidding
:shhh:

BlackCaddy87
01-16-08, 05:16 PM
yeah yeah...we're all on the same team here. We all get the same looks at the races "You're racing THAT" "Man that Caddy's fast".

I am pretty interested in this whole suspension thing. Thats what makes our cars so bad off the line is the weight transfer. The guy with that srt-4 places some kind of rubber thing in between each slot of the rear springs to reduce pretty much ALL of his weight transfer. The guy is pulling 1.7-1.8 60 ft times which is very impressive for a fwd with so much power. I've even seen videos of fwd drag cars that have a wheelie bar on back just to keep the back end up. I'm not really sure where he gets the little rubber things but I'm sure it would be a very cheap and effective mod...maybe a ruff ride to the track.

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-08, 05:29 PM
wouldnt matter
you still have very flimsy air shocks
they will compress when the weight is thrown back
best way for our cars to stop the weight transfer is to go to gas shocks
or find a way to keep the compressor running at ALL times

AJxtcman
01-16-08, 05:41 PM
Hey AJ , Lyndon Westor says he's been sending you Emails with no responses from you. He seems to think that its a server problem. Anyway, he says the software is ready and you need to get in touch with him. Im kinda anxious to see what happens in the next week or so.

Thanks
Steve (AKA mazda1949)


The cat may be out of the bag.

I got an email for a posting in this thread that I do not see:shhh:


wha???
AJ your not making sence again lol


I know what he's talking about!!!!! He He !!! But I aint tellin till he tells me I can.


I hate for mister X to get 100 phone calls today from one or two people. I would rather mister X work on more of my projects.


lol no new posters posts are shown immediately
and as for the mister X thing i got no clue what that means


AJ how about Emailing me. Im sorry I mentioned names. I did it before I thought. Im not going to say anything without you telling me I can. I know how hard you've been working on this and you deserve all the praise. I've been reading your post for a long time but have never posted myself.
I tried to PM you instead of posting but the forums said I had to post at least 20 times before I'd have the privilege to PM anyone. I've not been a member long either. Email is ( wssears@charter.net )

mazda1949

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


or dont waste his very valuable time and contact westers since they have been doing it for a LONG time...
seeing how he doesnt count and all lol

just kidding
:shhh:

Why would you call Wester's?


Please do not call him!
I mean mister X aka Lyndon Wester. This is an LS1 PCM not the Northstar.

I will give some updates on other Northstar PCM work soon. He will need time to figure it out. If he is getting bugged he can't work on it!:rant2:

AJxtcman
01-16-08, 05:43 PM
:thumbsup: Please don't call Wester's I can handle it. Hmm I hope I am one of those authorized Wester's tuner guy's or something. Yeah

BlackCaddy87
01-16-08, 05:44 PM
It's worth a shot, I dont really know what would be the best thing to get though. I guess I have a lot of time to look and figure it out until the track opens back up in Feb.

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-08, 06:54 PM
i was jaggin him still for saying that your not on the same level cuz you dont have a true cadillac... lol

AJxtcman
01-16-08, 09:09 PM
We are dyno testing Northstars with 4t80E transmissions correct. Soooooooo WTF.
My Numbers will be from a Northstar. Hmmmmmmm
Hey My Blower is back together. Can I use that number also?:devilheh:

CadillacSTS42005
01-16-08, 10:42 PM
i call cheater

codewize
01-17-08, 12:43 PM
I think we can. My target is 250.


245 hp and 268 torque at the wheels...think you can touch that:tisk:

codewize
01-17-08, 12:46 PM
you da man.


No problem

GizmoQ
01-17-08, 01:34 PM
I think we can. My target is 250.

That's realistic for ya, I on the other hand, would love to get there, but I know its a long way off for me. And everytime I turn around I'm adding more weight which isn't helping.

BlackCaddy87
01-17-08, 01:42 PM
I got you a blower right here AJ...maybe some nitrous too!!!

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=AB544E3B-5DFF-416D-9CFD-A1AD23CA9564&p=0

AJxtcman
01-17-08, 03:58 PM
I got this for free. I need to select a new pulley.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Fiero/Blower%20Project/Blower3.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Fiero/Blower%20Project/blower2.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Fiero/Blower%20Project/blower1.jpg

BlackCaddy87
01-17-08, 04:05 PM
How much boost do you plan on using?

Submariner409
01-17-08, 05:40 PM
Re: Your free blower. Are we talking our Cadillacs or your Fiero, AJ ?

Looks as if you're getting someone's hopes up...............

AJxtcman
01-17-08, 08:24 PM
Re: Your free blower. Are we talking our Cadillacs or your Fiero, AJ ?

Looks as if you're getting someone's hopes up...............

It came off a Caddy and I am installing it on the Turd aka POS

AJxtcman
01-17-08, 08:28 PM
I am going to watch the auction and drool even though it is not the weekend and the good cars aren't out.
Later

Hlod
01-25-08, 05:45 AM
it sucks . .. . . I buy car with 300hp , most powerfull FWD car . . .. .. . and now, it have only about 225........bastards

BlackCaddy87
01-28-08, 02:15 PM
Has anybody seen the numpers the new impala ss put down?

AJxtcman
02-13-08, 10:11 PM
I may have a problem making it to the dyno on Saturday.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Fiero/HPIM3566.jpg

BlackCaddy87
02-14-08, 01:45 PM
Not a problem...just more fun

We haven't had that much snow over the past 5 years!!!

NHRATA01
02-14-08, 03:19 PM
it sucks . .. . . I buy car with 300hp , most powerfull FWD car . . .. .. . and now, it have only about 225........bastards

It's typical to lose 15-20% of your crank power to the wheels from parasitic loss. If a car puts to the wheels what it is rated at by the manufacturer, then it was (very) underrated.

AJxtcman
03-08-08, 02:46 PM
I made it to the DYNO!!!!!!:D
:nanaparty:


Before my car made a pull the guy told me that his dyno would be about 13% below most other dyno's.

I do not have the results with me. The Tech running the dyno is either going to email them to me or copy them to a disc!
I think the LS1 with WESTERS custom tune made about 221hp and it ran just ok.
I had one program that made 239.9hp and sounded very nice! Much better than the LS1 custom tuned PCM

So that would be 249.7 with the LS1 PCM on a another dyno.

The other max run that I came out with 271 hp
This is a bone stock 1999 275hp VIN Y engine and a 4T80E trans

Bert's DHS made 180hp to 200HP between 4 PCM's
recalculated to 203hp to 226hp.

The 226hp sounds about right along with other people

I will have a bunch to post we did about 20 pulls :D

AJxtcman
03-08-08, 02:52 PM
I made up some parts for the ABS/TCS to run the car on the dyno. They worked! NO LIGHTS OR MESSAGES!!!!!!!! we did not turn off the traction control

fubar569
03-08-08, 11:54 PM
I made it to the DYNO!!!!!!:D
:nanaparty:


Before my car made a pull the guy told me that his dyno would be about 13% below most other dyno's.

I do not have the results with me. The Tech running the dyno is either going to email them to me or copy them to a disc!
I think the LS1 with WESTERS custom tune made about 221hp and it ran just ok.
I had one program that made 239.9hp and sounded very nice! Much better than the LS1 custom tuned PCM

So that would be 249.7 with the LS1 PCM on a another dyno.

The other max run that I came out with 271 hp
This is a bone stock 1999 275hp VIN Y engine and a 4T80E trans

Bert's DHS made 180hp to 200HP between 4 PCM's
recalculated to 203hp to 226hp.

The 226hp sounds about right along with other people

I will have a bunch to post we did about 20 pulls :D

so one of your custom tuned PCM's (NOT THE LS1 PCM) made the most HP correct?

i want to see some dyno sheets for the various PCM's as soon as you can get them up or send them to me if thats easier. fubar569@verizon.net - i can see a possible order in the future after modified intake manifold and 80mm TB go on...

BlackCaddy87
03-09-08, 07:03 AM
I'm really wanting some new shift points...I'm willing to send you my chip from fastchip so you can see what they did to the timing and so on but they didn't touch shift points. My car shifts from first at about 5800 and then drops to about 3300-3400 when it shifts to 2nd, even like 6300 would be great just to get the rpm's up in the next gear. It would also allow me to possibly hold 2nd through the 1/4, right now she shifts at 88.

I'm going to Tulsa tomorrow and running the 1/4 so I'll let you know how she's doing.

Ur7x
03-10-08, 02:17 PM
So that would be 249.7 with the LS1 PCM on a another dyno.

The other max run that I came out with 271 hp
This is a bone stock 1999 275hp VIN Y engine and a 4T80E trans

Bert's DHS made 180hp to 200HP between 4 PCM's
recalculated to 203hp to 226hp.

The 226hp sounds about right along with other people

I will have a bunch to post we did about 20 pulls :D

Looking forward to some details on the 271 pull... That one sounds very interesting. All of the stock base line pulls that I have seen from three buddies of mine put the stock "wheel horse power" baseline of these motors in the range of 234, 238 & 241...

That 271 looks like you have picked up 14% somewhere...

Nice Job.

stbtt
03-11-08, 10:12 AM
Lets see those dyno graphs

codewize
03-11-08, 11:34 AM
Oh please please do tell. I'm thinking this is what I need :)


I made up some parts for the ABS/TCS to run the car on the dyno. They worked! NO LIGHTS OR MESSAGES!!!!!!!! we did not turn off the traction control

eldorado1
03-11-08, 10:59 PM
Lets see those dyno graphs

+1:bouncy:

AJxtcman
03-11-08, 11:10 PM
+1:bouncy:

As soon as I get them. The tech said no one had ever asked for them. I told him to email them to me and I want a viewer version of the software.

msta293412
03-13-08, 09:48 AM
The 271 rwhp sounds incorrect on a stock 275hp Eldo. Even with the tune, that would mean the engine is putting out 350+ hp.......If that were true someone would be rich, cause I and many others would shell out big $ for that program.....But Ill wait for details and graphs and all that good stuff.

fubar569
03-13-08, 10:21 AM
The 271 rwhp sounds incorrect on a stock 275hp Eldo.

they made RWD eldo's with N*? :confused:

lol...just bustin your chops a bit man...im waiting on graphs too...i wanna see how he pulled it off since i still have to finish up an intake and get my core TB bored out...

AJxtcman
03-13-08, 01:38 PM
The 271 rwhp sounds incorrect on a stock 275hp Eldo. Even with the tune, that would mean the engine is putting out 350+ hp.......If that were true someone would be rich, cause I and many others would shell out big $ for that program.....But Ill wait for details and graphs and all that good stuff.

The 4.0L with the LS1 PCM was rated at 320 HP!!!!!
The stock 4.0L was rated at 250hp

Ur7x
03-13-08, 08:49 PM
The 4.0L with the LS1 PCM was rated at 320 HP!!!!!
The stock 4.0L was rated at 250hp


What? Now I'm confused. :bighead: 4.0L :confused: Your above post was for Vin Y and DTS Northstars... Where did the Aurora engine come from?

Also wondering... are all of your numbers "raw" or adjust for the Dyno operators correction factor?

eldorado1
03-13-08, 09:07 PM
The 4.0L with the LS1 PCM was rated at 320 HP!!!!!
The stock 4.0L was rated at 250hp

Yep. The Shelby Series I 4.0L gained 70hp over the Oldsmobile 4.0L because of the LS1 PCM. It had nothing at all to do with the different cams.:thepan:

eldorado1
03-13-08, 09:09 PM
What? Now I'm confused. :bighead: 4.0L :confused: Your above post was for Vin Y and DTS Northstars... Where did the Aurora engine come from?


He's trying to say you can gain 70hp by changing PCMs. What he forgot was the Aurora engine used in the Shelby Series I wasn't a stock 4.0L. The 70hp gain over stock wasn't due to a reflashed PCM. The majority was due to different cams.

AJxtcman
03-13-08, 10:08 PM
He's trying to say you can gain 70hp by changing PCMs. What he forgot was the Aurora engine used in the Shelby Series I wasn't a stock 4.0L. The 70hp gain over stock wasn't due to a reflashed PCM. The majority was due to different cams.

The cams it used were from a VIN 9 Cadillac engine

OK sparky
The 4.0L uses the same cams as a Cadillac 4.6L VIN Y
The Shelby used the Cams from the VIN 9.
The only difference from the Y to the 9 engine is the INTAKE CAMS!!!!!!!!!!!

So simply the install a set of intake cams and a completely different PCM and got 70hp!!
This was not a reflashed Olds/Caddy PCM!!!!!!!

I will get the graphs. I talk to the owner of the shop today. He called and asked if I wanted to do a P0741 on the side. I said No I don't have the time

I dont think the Dyno readings were correct HP, because he told me that most dynos would read 13% higher.

I made 239.9 hp
The 2003 DHS made 200hp

eldorado1
03-14-08, 06:44 PM
The cams it used were from a VIN 9 Cadillac engine

OK sparky
The 4.0L uses the same cams as a Cadillac 4.6L VIN Y
The Shelby used the Cams from the VIN 9.
The only difference from the Y to the 9 engine is the INTAKE CAMS!!!!!!!!!!!

So simply the install a set of intake cams and a completely different PCM and got 70hp!!

Yes, and the cams + free flowing intake + free flowing dual exhaust + PCM = 70hp.

Remember this was an engine swap. Not having to deal with all of the constraints of a Cadillac makes power a lot easier to get. You made 15 more hp than a stock cadillac. How did you do that? ;)

AJxtcman
03-14-08, 06:50 PM
Yes, and the cams + free flowing intake + free flowing dual exhaust + PCM = 70hp.

Remember this was an engine swap. Not having to deal with all of the constraints of a Cadillac makes power a lot easier to get. You made 15 more hp than a stock cadillac. How did you do that? ;)

YOU MUST NOT HAVE READ THAT CORRECTLY!!!!!!

As far as the Shelby it used the stock intake manifold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rant2:

AJxtcman
03-14-08, 07:08 PM
Before my car made a pull the guy told me that his dyno would be about 13% below most other dyno's.



I think the LS1 with WESTERS custom tune made about 221hp and it ran just ok. NOT SMOOTH, a little chunky, too rich.
So if you add 13% that would be 249.7 with the LS1 PCM on a another dyno. "DynoJet"



I had one program on a Northstar PCM that made 239.9hp and sounded very nice! Much better than the LS1 custom tuned PCM. If you add 13% and you get 271 hp on a Northstar PCM. I can only get 1st gear starts for about a week and then they go away. That is why I am not running that PCM. Remember I had this engine over 275 a few weeks ago.:eek:

This is a bone stock 1999 275hp VIN Y engine and a 4T80E trans.

Highline Cady's 2003 DHS made 200hp with his semi stock VIN Y. It has Corsa Exhaust and a Volant CAI.
If you add 13% that would make it 226hp and that sounds about right along with other people

I was busy putting my car back together and Highline Cady was talking to the Tech most of the time. I will ask him to fill everyone in on the number game.

Submariner409
03-14-08, 07:21 PM
If I went to a shop, of whatever kind, and the owner said "Oh, just add 13% to so-and-so to get your figures" I would be really wary of the accuracy. Why can't this particular dyno give standardized figures which are accepted industry-wide. "Well, Joe, here's the pull slip printout, but you can add 13% to get the real FWHP figure." Phooey !

AJxtcman
03-14-08, 07:39 PM
If I went to a shop, of whatever kind, and the owner said "Oh, just add 13% to so-and-so to get your figures" I would be really wary of the accuracy. Why can't this particular dyno give standardized figures which are accepted industry-wide. "Well, Joe, here's the pull slip printout, but you can add 13% to get the real FWHP figure." Phooey !

THIS WAS A VERY HIGH DOLLAR DYNO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REMEMBER POSTED THAT THE DYNO CELL WAS OUT FOR A RECALIBRATION!!!!

THIS DYNO COST TWICE AS MUSH AS A DYNOJET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I worked for a machine shop in WA the owner of the shop was very well known for his race engines. He built a stock 1970 LS6 and dyno'd it. It produced 396hp. The factory rated it at 460hp correct?

Next he dyno'd a 426 Hemi that was built. Roller rockers, pistons, very nice parts. It made 425hp and the customer was irate. :cookoo:

MY POINT IS I MADE 239.9HP AND THAT WOULD BE COMPARIBLE TO 271HP ON A LOW BUDGET DYNO.

Dyno Dynamics - Home (http://www.dyno.com.au/)


I THINK YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT SUB:hmm:

eldorado1
03-14-08, 09:48 PM
YOU MUST NOT HAVE READ THAT CORRECTLY!!!!!!

As far as the Shelby it used the stock intake manifold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rant2:

No, I meant the part that goes from the MAF to the air filter. The cold air induction tube, or whatever you want to call it. The thing in carbon fiber going to the K&N filter here:

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/ac-shelby/99_shelby_series_1_04.jpg

As for the 13% bit, that could have been true if it were a mobile dyno pack, where they take off your drive wheels and bolt the dyno to your car's hubs. The loss of rotational inertia from the spinning wheels would certainly give you a gain.....err....nevermind, you were talking about a loss of 13%.

AJxtcman
03-15-08, 11:22 AM
No, I meant the part that goes from the MAF to the air filter. The cold air induction tube, or whatever you want to call it. The thing in carbon fiber going to the K&N filter here:

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/ac-shelby/99_shelby_series_1_04.jpg

As for the 13% bit, that could have been true if it were a mobile dyno pack, where they take off your drive wheels and bolt the dyno to your car's hubs. The loss of rotational inertia from the spinning wheels would certainly give you a gain.....err....nevermind, you were talking about a loss of 13%.

I know of a location with a dynoJet. I could work a little harder and make some extra cash just to prov my point, but look at my first post.



Information we all will want
Car info
YEAR
MODEL
ENGINE: C 250HP, Y 275HP, 9 300HP
MODIFICATIONS: CAMS CAI EXHAUST CONVERTER ect.
PCM & ELECTRONICS: MEMCAL PCM PROGRAM MAF ect.

Dyno info
DATE
TEMP
MANUFACTURER & MODEL
FACILITY (optional)

Readings
Max Horse Power
Max Torque

Horse Power @ 2000
Torque @ 2000

Horse Power @ 3000
Torque @3000

Horse Power @ 4000
Torque @ 4000

Horse Power @ 5000
Torque @ 5000

Horse Power @ 6000
Torque @ 6000

AJxtcman
03-15-08, 12:22 PM
Hey this is GizmoQ's results. I spent some time with the program. I could not correct the set gear ratio, so the Torque value is NOT correct.

His readings are stated as NO correction

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Gizmo/Gizmo1.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Gizmo/Gizmo2.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Gizmo/Gizmo3.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Gizmo/Gizmo4.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Gizmo/Gizmo6.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Gizmo/Gizmostat.jpg

AJxtcman
03-15-08, 12:51 PM
MJJ ran on a Mustange MD-1100-SE Dyno
MJJ has a 2002 DTS 300hp VIN 9
Max 214HP and 222 Torque

Codewize ran on a DynoJet Correction? (STD 1.03) on a 92 day
Code has a 2001 DTS 300hp VIN 9
1st pull 204HP, 2nd pull 212HP, 3rd pull 235HP

HITMONEY ran on a DynoJet. Correction? (SAE.99) on a 97 day
HITMONEY has a 2002 DTS 300 hp VIN 9
His readout states 1st pull 233HP & 232 Tq 2nd Pull 227HP & 223 Torque
Looking at his chart the lines that are usually Torque Range from 224 to 227
The lines that are usually Horse Power Range from 221 to 226 This would be the correction factor?

GizmoQ ran on a Dynapack Correction Method NONE
GizmoQ has a 96 Eldo 275hp VIN Y
Pull #1 223.5HP Pull #2 216HP Pull #3 220.9HP Pull #4 220.9HP Pull #6 217.1HP

Highline Caddy ran on a Dyno Dynamic note: no ignition hookup/RPM wire
Highline Caddy has a 2003 275hp VIN Y
The best he got I think was 199.8HP

AJxtcman ran on a Dyno Dynamic
AJxtcman has a POS with a 99 275hp VIN Y engine
The best I ran was 239.9HP

AJxtcman
03-15-08, 12:58 PM
MJJ ran on a Mustange MD-1100-SE Dyno
MJJ has a 2002 DTS 300hp VIN 9
Max 214HP and 222 Torque

Codewize ran on a DynoJet Correction? (STD 1.03) on a 92 day
Code has a 2001 DTS 300hp VIN 9
1st pull 204HP, 2nd pull 212HP,


Highline Caddy ran on a Dyno Dynamic note: no ignition hookup/RPM wire
Highline Caddy has a 2003 275hp VIN Y
The best he got I think was 199.8HP

All three had the same program. The VIN Y engine should have more HP up to 5000 RPM's

Ur7x
03-15-08, 11:54 PM
If I went to a shop, of whatever kind, and the owner said "Oh, just add 13% to so-and-so to get your figures" I would be really wary of the accuracy. Why can't this particular dyno give standardized figures which are accepted industry-wide. "Well, Joe, here's the pull slip printout, but you can add 13% to get the real FWHP figure." Phooey !


X2

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this.

Any dyno operator worth his salt would never say... Oh just take my numbers and multiply them by 1.13... I put as much faith in this guy as some selling torque wrenches who says... my torque wrenches are all a little low... just tighten it a quarter turn more after it clicks.

Every dyno operator I have ever met have been major anal about the accuracy of his machine. First off the way a dyno works it would be almost impossible to generate a 13% low number across the board... Did he tell you at which RPM/Wheel Speed to apply the "adjust" number?

It doesn't matter if it was the most expensive dyno on the planet... If it is miscalibrated, the numbers are suspect.

Sadly, because of this "poorly maintained dyno" all of your dyno runs look exactly what you would expect from a stock motor. Those graphs demonstrate nothing. If I were you (AJ) I would ask for my money back. Or ask for a chance to return when his dyno is fixed.
:want:
You got ripped off!

AJxtcman
03-16-08, 11:31 AM
X2

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this.

Any dyno operator worth his salt would never say... Oh just take my numbers and multiply them by 1.13... I put as much faith in this guy as some selling torque wrenches who says... my torque wrenches are all a little low... just tighten it a quarter turn more after it clicks.

Every dyno operator I have ever met have been major anal about the accuracy of his machine. First off the way a dyno works it would be almost impossible to generate a 13% low number across the board... Did he tell you at which RPM/Wheel Speed to apply the "adjust" number?

It doesn't matter if it was the most expensive dyno on the planet... If it is miscalibrated, the numbers are suspect.

Sadly, because of this "poorly maintained dyno" all of your dyno runs look exactly what you would expect from a stock motor. Those graphs demonstrate nothing. If I were you (AJ) I would ask for my money back. Or ask for a chance to return when his dyno is fixed.
:want:
You got ripped off!


THE DYNO WAS SENT OUT FOR RECALIBRATION JUST WEEKS BEFORE!

I FEEL THE NUMBERS ARE CORRECT!

I THINK OTHER MANUFACTURERS JACK THE NUMBERS UP!:want:

I COULD GO TO A DYNOJET AND PROVE IT, FOR WHAT?

AJxtcman
03-16-08, 11:34 AM
I am OK with the 239.9hp that it laid down. It is a stock 275hp engine

Ur7x
03-16-08, 05:34 PM
THE DYNO WAS SENT OUT FOR RECALIBRATION JUST WEEKS BEFORE!

I FEEL THE NUMBERS ARE CORRECT!

I THINK OTHER MANUFACTURERS JACK THE NUMBERS UP!:want:

I COULD GO TO A DYNOJET AND PROVE IT, FOR WHAT?

You're joking right... "FOR WHAT?" Well for starters to prove that your tune program works. Once you prove it your sales will increase by orders of magnitude.

I was sent out for Calibration? OK now the operator is totally BSing you. You calibrate dyno's on site. Sending out a dyno for calibration would be as effective as sending out a piano for tuning... The chance that it would come back accurate would also be zilch.

I was not doubting the claims of your tune, You have a few that swear by it. The point I was trying to make is that if you spend hard earned money on a dyno session and the first thing the operator says is
"I sent my dyno out two weeks ago for calibration and its still off by about 13%" Then that dyno session was USELESS. OK lets be fair it was free it would have been useless. Since you paid money for it... IT WAS WORSE then USELESS.

Go and get your money back and take it to a Dyno that is accurate, one that the operator will stand behind without some BS adjustment number.

AJxtcman
03-16-08, 06:27 PM
You're joking right... "FOR WHAT?" Well for starters to prove that your tune program works. Once you prove it your sales will increase by orders of magnitude.

I was sent out for Calibration? OK now the operator is totally BSing you. You calibrate dyno's on site. Sending out a dyno for calibration would be as effective as sending out a piano for tuning... The chance that it would come back accurate would also be zilch.

I was not doubting the claims of your tune, You have a few that swear by it. The point I was trying to make is that if you spend hard earned money on a dyno session and the first thing the operator says is
"I sent my dyno out two weeks ago for calibration and its still off by about 13%" Then that dyno session was USELESS. OK lets be fair it was free it would have been useless. Since you paid money for it... IT WAS WORSE then USELESS.

Go and get your money back and take it to a Dyno that is accurate, one that the operator will stand behind without some BS adjustment number.

He did not send the whole dyno out!

This was not the LS1 PCM, but a Northstar PCM!

He said that jis numbers would be true numbers! I am sorry if I did not explain that better. He stated that DynoJets are typicly 13% higher. Can you comprehend that?

I need a base line set of numbers! I am installing a Blower on my engine!!!!!!!

All I needed was one clean pull on my LS1 PCM.
The LS1 Program made 221hp

For fun a took along 2 other PCM's. Guess what one of my Northstar PCM's laid down the best number 239.9hp

The reason it is not useless is because I am going back to get numbers again after I install my blower. I will tune it on the dyno also.

This is a PM sent to me from a member!!!!!!!
AJ,

The dynojets usually put down the best numbers. dyno dynamics, mustang and superflow are more accurate. Maha's are awesome. You'll also find a dyno operator can play with altitude and ambient temps and pick up 20-50hp if they play with the numbers even if the dyno is calibrated with the weight.
Sorry I haven't been in touch much.

AJxtcman
03-16-08, 06:39 PM
Information from Wester's website
Just about every car advertisement on TV mentions it, people talking about their cars always seem to have more than the other guy...

But what is horsepower, and what does it mean?

The Definition

The term horsepower was invented by James Watt, who lived way back between 1736 and 1819.

The story goes that Watt was working with strong draft horses carrying coal, and he wanted a way to talk about the power available from one of these horses. Probably wanted to brag to his fellows about how he improved his horses' performance, right ?? He found that, on average, a horse could do 22,000 foot-pounds of work in a minute. For some odd reason, he then multiplied that number by 50% and pegged the measurement of horsepower at 33,000 foot-pounds of work in one minute. It is that strange, arbitrary unit of measure that has made its way down through the centuries and now appears on your car, your lawn mower, your chain saw and even in some cases, even your vacuum cleaner.

What horsepower means is this... In Watt's judgement, one horse at the coal mine can do 33,000 foot-pounds of work every minute (apparently those horses he observed doing 22,000 foot-pounds of work every minute were slackers and got sent out to LePages). A horse exerting one horsepower can raise 330 pounds of coal 100 feet in a minute, or 33 pounds of coal 1000 feet in one minute, or 1,000 pounds 33 feet in one minute, etc. You can make up whatever combination of feet and pounds you like - as long as the product is 33,000 in one minute and you have one horsepower. You can probably imagine that you would not want to load 33,000 pounds of coal in the bucket and ask the horse to move it one foot in a minute because the horse couldn't budge that big a load. You can probably also imagine that you would not want to put one pound of coal in the bucket and ask the horse to run 33,000 feet in one minute, since that translates into 375 miles per hour and most horses can't run that fast. If you have a block and tackle you can easily trade "perceived weight" for distance using an arrangement of pulleys. So you could create a block and tackle system that puts a comfortable amount of weight on the horse at a comfortable speed no matter how much weight is actually in the bucket.

Horsepower can be converted into other units. For example, one horsepower is equivalent to 746 watts or 2,545 BTUs (British Thermal Units) per hour. So if you took a one-horsepower horse and put it on a treadmill, it could operate a generator producing a continuous 746 watts. If you took that 746 watts and ran it through an electric heater, it would produce 2,545 BTUs in an hour (where a BTU is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one pound of water one degree F). One BTU is equal to 1,055 joules, or 252 gram-calories, or 0.252 food Calories. Presumably the horse would burn 641 Calories in one hour doing its work if it were 100% efficient.

Measuring Horsepower

If you want to know the horsepower of an engine, you hook the engine up to a dynamometer. Horsepower is pure theory--it's an arbitrary number. A dynamometer places a load on the engine and measures the amount of TORQUE that the engine can produce against the load. Some dynamometers measure the acceleration rate of a known mass at a given rate of speed--like a DynoJet. The basic formula used is:

Force (ft/lbs) = MASS (lbs) X ACCELERATION (ft/second)

Since the MASS of the roller is known, and the ACCELERATION rate can be measured with simple sensors, the resultant force exerted on the roller in "ft/lbs" is then calculated from the known values (mass x acceleration) although not physically measured. With in input from the engine such as RPM--we then input the data and make up "horsepower". There are other correction inputs like atmospheric pressure, humidity, etc...but we won't go into that here. The formula most widely accepted becomes:

HP = Torque x RPM / 5252

To further the initial formula-if you can measure the acceleration rate, you can use a product like a G-Tech (www.gtech.com) to accurately calculate HP and Torque, without ever going to a dyno. "G-Tech" data and track times are normally within a fraction of each other, making this tuning/measuring method very accurate.

But let's first talk a bit more about torque, since it's a tangible measurable force, and we'll explain dyno theory a little bit more.

Torque
Imagine that you have a big socket wrench with a 2-foot long handle on it and you it to apply 50 pounds of force to that 2-foot long handle. What you are doing is applying a torque, or turning force, of 100 foot-pounds (50 pounds to a 2 foot long handle) to the bolt. You could get the same 100 foot-pounds of torque by applying one pound of force to the end of a 100 foot handle or 100 pounds of force to a one foot long handle.
Similarly, if you attach a shaft to an engine, the engine can apply torque to the shaft.

A dynamometer measures this torque.

Our MAHA dyno is computer controlled. The computer applies an "eddy current", controlling load to the rollers and actually "holds" the vehicle at a fixed wheel speed, no matter how hard you put your foot into it--the vehicle axle speed is held there. You can vary the output with the amount of engine load applied at that speed by varying throttle angle. The output to the dyno screen is actual, real world, measured force (torque) delivered from the rear tires to the rollers. It's a pretty cool machine--I can load the rollers to simulate pulling a load, or driving down the road, driving up an 8% grade, or just hold the vehicle at one speed (really nice for tuning). I've had a low 10 second 1996 Mustang on it which had been engine dyno'd on a Superflow Engine dyno at over 750 hp on alcohol--tuned with pyrometers instead of airfuel ratios. Although the MAHA software has 500 HP limitations at this point, the MAHA dyno performed flawlessly--holding the Mustang at any speed we chose to maximize the state of tune.


"The computer applies an "eddy current", controlling load to the rollers and actually "holds" the vehicle at a fixed wheel speed, no matter how hard you put your foot into it--the vehicle axle speed is held there".
This is used for tuning cell in the PCM!!!!!


The Australian built Dyno Dynamic dyno can do that also
That is why I am going to tune my car on that Dyno:banghead:

Ur7x
03-16-08, 10:55 PM
He did not send the whole dyno out!

This was not the LS1 PCM, but a Northstar PCM!

He said that jis numbers would be true numbers! I am sorry if I did not explain that better. He stated that DynoJets are typically 13% higher. Can you comprehend that?

I need a base line set of numbers! I am installing a Blower on my engine!!!!!!!

All I needed was one clean pull on my LS1 PCM.
The LS1 Program made 221hp

For fun a took along 2 other PCM's. Guess what one of my Northstar PCM's laid down the best number 239.9hp

The reason it is not useless is because I am going back to get numbers again after I install my blower. I will tune it on the dyno also.

This is a PM sent to me from a member!!!!!!!
AJ,



No, I don't comprehend that.

Honestly, most many of your posts confuse me. Within the same thread or sometimes the same post we change the subject so many times I can't keep up. I know you aren't trying to confuse us, but you are.

You said the the dyno was just sent out, except it wasn't, You said the dyno is 13% low, then you PM me that no its bang on. All dynos measure the change in speed of the roller, except dynojets, which are better because they measure the change in speed of the rollers?
:confused:
Can you comprehend why you are confusing?

We have gone from LS1 tunes, Northstar tunes, Baseline runs, LS1 4.0L motors, stock PCMs, etc. We have a bunch of cars with lots of dyno numbers.. Were they all stock? Were any of them stock?

You could simplify this a ton with some simple posts. A brief description of the car, the tune and then the graph.

Something like
2000 Deville 4.6L Vin 9 Stock PCM Bone stock from air filer to exhaust tips
[graph]

2001 Northstar 4.6L Vin Y Stock PCM Bone stock except for custom headers and dual exhaust in a 86 Fiero
[graph]

Etc.

BTW "Wheel" Dynos, at there core are very simple devices. As you note they measure how fast the rollers accelerate. I have seen dyno numbers fluctuate and a dyno operator can influence the numbers by something as simple as the angle of the straps that tie-down the car. Too tight and this can cost as much as 5HP to loose and you can loose even more in slippage.

Every dyno operator I have ever met is ultra anal about things like this. He knows his machine is bang on and he prides himself in producing "consistent" numbers. They will ensure the engine is at the same temp for each pull, they will ensure the car is tied-down the same, the temp of the shop is constant and some will even attempt to maintain constant humidity. They take this all very serious.

If a dyno operator were to tell me that his gear is 13% lower then a Dynojet across the street I would ask "Is yours right or is his".. As the Dire Strait's song says "One of them must be wrong"

One thing that I do hear at lots of dyno shops. "Don't be disappointed with your results 'wheel' horse power and 'fly-wheel' horse power are VERY different and can be quite different based on the type and age of the tranny and diff." I have often seen "correction" factors to convert "wheel" horse power to power at the crank.

But as a few have noted, I would not do business with any dyno operator who asked me to multiply his results by 1.13.

AJxtcman
03-16-08, 11:41 PM
I made it to the DYNO!!!!!!:D
:nanaparty:


Before my car made a pull the guy told me that his dyno would be about 13% below most other dyno's.

I do not have the results with me. The Tech running the dyno is either going to email them to me or copy them to a disc!
I think the LS1 with WESTERS custom tune made about 221hp and it ran just ok.
I had one program that made 239.9hp and sounded very nice! Much better than the LS1 custom tuned PCM

So that would be 249.7 with the LS1 PCM on a another dyno.

The other max run that I came out with 271 hp
This is a bone stock 1999 275hp VIN Y engine and a 4T80E trans

Bert's DHS made 180hp to 200HP between 4 PCM's
recalculated to 203hp to 226hp.

The 226hp sounds about right along with other people

I will have a bunch to post we did about 20 pulls :D

DID YOU READ THIS?

I said that this Dyno 13% lower than most others meaning a Dynojet.

Strange thing is I have been getting calls about that fact!
The DynoJet will put down the best numbers:thumbsup: Are they acurate?:eek:

Submariner409
03-17-08, 12:04 AM
As Mark Knopfler wrote after ^^ Industrial Disease: "One of them must be wrong".......in It Never Rains...: "But I'd be lyin' if I said I was to blame"....... I'll throw a monkey wrench in here and ask why we have hypothetical engines in hypothetical cars under hypothetical conditions on hypothetical equipment ?

Heck, I could dyno a custom something-or-other and stick it in here to further cloud the problem.

Why don't we keep this to a Cadillac automobile dyno thread: Production cars with (thread title) Northstar engines in real-world situations. No $13,000 blowers, no LS1 off-the-wall-one-of-a-kind tunes, no sand rails, no Northstars in Hummer conversions.

Yes, before and after PCM's, plug changes, TB's, MAF's, stuff you and I can get and do without black magic and hearsay. No "my dyno is different" correctors.

All done on a certified chassis dynamometer.

If you want to advertise a one-off mod, start a "My Northstar in a Jaguar" thread.......

AJ, Is the DynoJet a dash-mounted plugin guessterometer? If it's that sort of toy, then that's what it is: a toy. Garbage in = garbage out.

eldorado1
03-17-08, 12:21 AM
AJ, Is the DynoJet a dash-mounted plugin guessterometer? If it's that sort of toy, then that's what it is: a toy. Garbage in = garbage out.

You're thinking of a "G-tech".

A dynojet is an inertial dynamometer. Accelerate a pair of rollers to measure torque.

AJxtcman
03-17-08, 01:32 AM
As Mark Knopfler wrote after ^^ Industrial Disease: "One of them must be wrong".......in It Never Rains...: "But I'd be lyin' if I said I was to blame"....... I'll throw a monkey wrench in here and ask why we have hypothetical engines in hypothetical cars under hypothetical conditions on hypothetical equipment ?

Heck, I could dyno a custom something-or-other and stick it in here to further cloud the problem.

Why don't we keep this to a Cadillac automobile dyno thread: Production cars with (thread title) Northstar engines in real-world situations. No $13,000 blowers, no LS1 off-the-wall-one-of-a-kind tunes, no sand rails, no Northstars in Hummer conversions.

Yes, before and after PCM's, plug changes, TB's, MAF's, stuff you and I can get and do without black magic and hearsay. No "my dyno is different" correctors.

All done on a certified chassis dynamometer.

If you want to advertise a one-off mod, start a "My Northstar in a Jaguar" thread.......

AJ, Is the DynoJet a dash-mounted plugin guessterometer? If it's that sort of toy, then that's what it is: a toy. Garbage in = garbage out.

Good point
That is why I took a production Caddy with.
As far as my Fiero the stock PCM ran the best.

I went to a State of the art top quality facility and that is why the numbers were not BLOWN UP out of proportion.

I will have the charts to look over soon.

stbtt
03-17-08, 01:39 AM
I can solve this if you just send me a couple pcm's to test in one car "mine" it has plenty of dyno time and is very consistent 243 hp I have offered this several times but nobody will reply:banghead: no money lost on dyno time and no problems with the car on the dyno it performs the same way every time. then we can see what kind of progress you are making

AJxtcman
03-17-08, 09:28 AM
I feel the need to APOLOGISE to anyone reading this.
I should have stopped and let the numbers talk. I will post a full set of stock numbers and then the modified numbers. The stock numbers WILL clear up any confusion I caused. The STOCK numbers are about 13% lower than a dynojet would produce!

Agian I am sorry for the confusion in my attemp to relay the information from the tech running the dyno!

The stock numbers VS modified is what we should be looking at CORRECT?


Thank SUB

Submariner409
03-17-08, 10:44 AM
My mistake on DynaJet vs. G-Tech: Senior moment. (I was still marveling at Tiger Woods' victory....)

Ur7x
03-17-08, 02:30 PM
Agian I am sorry for the confusion in my attemp to relay the information from the tech running the dyno!

The stock numbers VS modified is what we should be looking at CORRECT?


Yes!

That would be cool, as I pointed out... All of those runs fall nicely in terms of what I have seen for stock Vin 9 North* (Except your Fiero) which is about 20-25HP high for a Vin Y... If you fixed the "squashed" stock crossover exhaust pipe (which everyone agrees is a major cork in the bottle) or are running a 5 speed or a smaller lighter auto tranny, then that could explain your number.

Again your initial post was not all that clear. I know that you know exactly what has been done to Codewise's and the other car's you dyno'ed; most of us here do not or have long since forgotten. I thought Codewise was running a "tuned" Northstar PCM... I guess not. So these were all baseline runs... Cool. We all wait, with great anticipation, for the "tuned" runs; as long as you used the same dyno for the before and after runs you will be fine...

As you note, we are all interested in the "delta".

Oh and BTW as to which is more accurate... As above as long as their results are consistent and repeatable that's all that really matters...

BUT Dynojet has been certified for "exclusive" use by NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA and a few others.

AJxtcman
03-17-08, 03:30 PM
Yes!

That would be cool, as I pointed out... All of those runs fall nicely in terms of what I have seen for stock Vin 9 North* (Except your Fiero) which is about 20-25HP high for a Vin Y... If you fixed the "squashed" stock crossover exhaust pipe (which everyone agrees is a major cork in the bottle) or are running a 5 speed or a smaller lighter auto tranny, then that could explain your number.

Again your initial post was not all that clear. I know that you know exactly what has been done to Codewise's and the other car's you dyno'ed; most of us here do not or have long since forgotten. I thought Codewise was running a "tuned" Northstar PCM... I guess not. So these were all baseline runs... Cool. We all wait, with great anticipation, for the "tuned" runs; as long as you used the same dyno for the before and after runs you will be fine...

As you note, we are all interested in the "delta".

Oh and BTW as to which is more accurate... As above as long as their results are consistent and repeatable that's all that really matters...

BUT Dynojet has been certified for "exclusive" use by NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA and a few others.

My Turd is a stock VIN Y engine, a 4T80E trans with a mild shift kit, cone air filter, and my restricted 355 Muffler.

My trans was a core that I put two turbine shaft seals in to correct a P0741. After driving it a while it started to slip. I played around with a shift kit, but the slip would come back after a short time, so I pulled the PCS wire. I am running full line pressure and it does not slip now. I have a trans tore down on the bench to replace it

AJxtcman
03-19-08, 12:31 AM
Yes, and the cams + free flowing intake + free flowing dual exhaust + PCM = 70hp.

Remember this was an engine swap. Not having to deal with all of the constraints of a Cadillac makes power a lot easier to get. You made 15 more hp than a stock cadillac. How did you do that? ;)

DO THE MATH


ryan.hess - O-town, FL - Northstar Vin 9, 80mm TB, dual 2.5" exhaust, 1227730 engine management (THIS IS OLD CRAP) 512hp/516tq flywheel - 4t80e transmission auto (50% power losses)


What did you say? Your Northstar has 512 RWHP?:eek:
The 7730 is older that a lot of memebers here!:stirpot:

Ur7x
03-19-08, 01:46 AM
ryan.hess - O-town, FL - Northstar Vin 9, 80mm TB, dual 2.5" exhaust, 1227730 engine management (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/#) (THIS IS OLD CRAP) 512hp/516tq flywheel - 4t80e transmission auto (50% power losses)

What did you say? Your Northstar has 512 RWHP?:eek:
The 7730 is older that a lot of members here!:stirpot:

AJ could you take a second and translate this post into English.
Posts like these really do not add anything to this tread and only increase the level of confusion.

What the heck are you guys talking about? Is this a piece of a PM...

I do know that a 1227730 is an F-body TPI PCM. Is this a turbo/sc or NOs application?

I think its cool you keep your posts short and easy to read...
But I'll bet that 99% of us have no clue what this post is about.

AJxtcman
03-19-08, 07:45 AM
AJ could you take a second and translate this post into English.
Posts like these really do not add anything to this tread and only increase the level of confusion.

What the heck are you guys talking about? Is this a piece of a PM...

I do know that a 1227730 is an F-body TPI PCM. Is this a turbo/sc or NOs application?

I think its cool you keep your posts short and easy to read...
But I'll bet that 99% of us have no clue what this post is about.

I am under the impression that eldorado1 has a 512hp Northstar. I have never heard of a Turbo or S/C on it.

I thought that eldorado1 and Ryan Hess were the same person, but I never followed up on it.
Now I am thinking you might be a friend of his.

Ryan is using a old POS F body PCM on a Northstar in a Fiero. I feel like it is the Commodore 64 version of PCM's.

I put down 239.9 RWHP on a stock Northstar engine and trans on a Northstar PCM. Ryan said it would never run and make power.


Ryan Hess or Eldorado1 has been a great inspiration on my Northstar tuning and I have told him many times. If it wasn't for him I wouldn't have got so deep into it just to prove him wrong.

Sorry guy's from having to read the mud slinging between Eldorado1 and myself over the last year. I have been at a disadvantage! I did not know that Eldorado1 and Ryan Hess was the same.

AJxtcman
03-19-08, 07:46 AM
BTW Fiero's are JUNK!!!!!!!!!!

I have fun driving it, but I would never buy another for myself. Wait I didn't buy this one to drive. I planned on selling it right away. a year later and I am still driving the POS

AJxtcman
03-19-08, 09:05 AM
AJ could you take a second and translate this post into English.


Hey try this

For your location this should work out great

On your RWD car
Install and correctly wire up a 4 wire heated O2 sensor
After that set your dwell to a minimum of 40 and a max of 45 at idle and 2500 RPMs. You can not use a scan tool this must be done on the green lead near the M/C solenoid
You will need to back your choke valve off 2 to 5 also.

Test drive after :yup: I am going to assume you have a stock prom in it?

eldorado1
03-19-08, 11:36 AM
Ryan is using a old POS F body PCM on a Northstar in a Fiero. I feel like it is the Commodore 64 version of PCM's.

I put down 239.9 RWHP on a stock Northstar engine and trans on a Northstar PCM. Ryan said it would never run and make power.


Ryan Hess or Eldorado1 has been a great inspiration on my Northstar tuning and I have told him many times. If it wasn't for him I wouldn't have got so deep into it just to prove him wrong.

You're welcome :highfive:

I'm not making 500hp, if you read closely that was a joke about the 4t80e.

But I am making 256whp. Which is > 239.9
The commodore 64 wins again! :alchi:
I've done some mods since the 256whp dyno, and I would like to go back to see what it puts down now.

Ur7x
03-19-08, 06:02 PM
Hey try this

For your location this should work out great

On your RWD car
Install and correctly wire up a 4 wire heated O2 sensor
After that set your dwell to a minimum of 40 and a max of 45 at idle and 2500 RPMs. You can not use a scan tool this must be done on the green lead near the M/C solenoid
You will need to back your choke valve off 2 to 5 also.

Test drive after :yup: I am going to assume you have a stock prom in it?

Oh thanks, that helped a ton...

BTW I have no clue who Eldo1 or Ryan Hess is/are. All I was asking if you are going to go off on tangents like that either us the PM system or give the rest of us some background to what the heck you are talking about.

Posts like this one and the previous 5 or 6 do nothing to build a "Dyno Registry" and only confuse and frustrate people like me who are trying to learn something and understand what the heck is going on.

PS my RWD car is running a hand built Olds 355 9.7:1 CR with hand ported heads with W31 sized valves and a street-able Voodoo cam. It is making over 350HP at the crank and 298HP at the wheels If anyone whats the specs for this motor, the cam card and what not is in a binder at home. PM me I'm happy to share.

Submariner409
03-19-08, 07:06 PM
Olds 350 or 455 ???

The pic is a 1971 Olds 455 bored to 461, pump 87 octane, Mondello Ka street heads (plugged), flat hydraulic RV cam (Engle/Mondello 15-100), Quadrajet restricted to 675 cfm, Pertronix, tricks; 423 flywheel HP on a dynabrake. Built it for my boat in 6- '98. Something's wrong with your engine. Look up Joe Mondello's website.

AJxtcman
03-19-08, 07:41 PM
Oh thanks, that helped a ton...

BTW I have no clue who Eldo1 or Ryan Hess is/are. All I was asking if you are going to go off on tangents like that either us the PM system or give the rest of us some background to what the heck you are talking about.

Posts like this one and the previous 5 or 6 do nothing to build a "Dyno Registry" and only confuse and frustrate people like me who are trying to learn something and understand what the heck is going on.

PS my RWD car is running a hand built Olds 355 9.7:1 CR with hand ported heads with W31 sized valves and a street-able Voodoo cam. It is making over 350HP at the crank and 298HP at the wheels If anyone whats the specs for this motor, the cam card and what not is in a binder at home. PM me I'm happy to share.


I have a very special spot in my heart For Old's. I love most of them.
:drool:Very nice. If I come out next year I will look you up. I know some Fiero guy's in that area also.


Olds 350 or 455 ???

The pic is a 1971 Olds 455 bored to 461, pump 87 octane, Mondello Ka street heads (plugged), flat hydraulic RV cam (Engle/Mondello 15-100), Quadrajet restricted to 675 cfm, Pertronix, tricks; 423 flywheel HP on a dynabrake. Built it for my boat in 6- '98. Something's wrong with your engine. Look up Joe Mondello's website.
:drool::drool:

Sub help a brother out and give it to me.:D

Ur7x
03-19-08, 07:43 PM
Its a 30 thou over 350 aka a 355.

Or as I like to call it the forgotten 350.

Most guys who are into Olds motors agree two things
1) Joe Mondello is a great guy BUT
2) After he sold his company it when into the crapper big time You will find very few olds faithful do any business with Joe Mondello... kinda sad really

Submariner409
03-19-08, 09:56 PM
Still a good place to pick up oddball engine brackets and parts. My stuff is mostly from pre-2003.

Ur7x
03-19-08, 11:31 PM
Be very careful.

You might want to check out www.oldspower.com (http://www.oldspower.com) or www.realoldspower.com (http://www.realoldspower.com)

The first group is mostly guys with 1978-88 "G" bodied cutlasses the other is mostly 1964-1972 Cutlass S, 442s W30's and W31's...

Both groups agree shop a mondello AT YOU OWN RISK...

One horror story after another... There are lots of better Olds parts suppliers out there. Dave Smith, BTR, Rocket Racing, etc...

As for restoration parts Year One, the Parts Place, ect...

Mondello as a absolutely LAST resort.

AJxtcman
04-24-08, 09:40 AM
Fiero

This is the LS1 PCM
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Fiero/205.jpg

This is a Stock 1999 VIN 9 PCM
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Fiero/2356.jpg

This is That same 1999 VIN 9 with a LT1 Knock Module. Also #2 run on this PCM
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Fiero/2243.jpg

This is a Modified 1999 VIN Y PCM. It is a 150 MPH VIN Y
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Fiero/2399.jpg

AJxtcman
04-24-08, 09:46 AM
Highline Cady's Car
Remember that NO TACH LEAD WAS CONNECTED!

This is the same program that ran a 13.7 (I think)
It is the one that has been in the car for a year
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Bert/1896.jpg

This is the next PCM. This was the 1st run on this PCM. Each run after on each PCM dropped in HP
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Bert/1979.jpg

This was the first run on the next PCM. I did not get all the runs, but they all dropped down to about 190hp
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Bert/1992.jpg

This was the Stock program. I think
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Bert/1994.jpg

AJxtcman
04-24-08, 09:49 AM
Fiero

This is the LS1 PCM
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Fiero/205.jpg

This is a Stock 1999 VIN 9 PCM
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Fiero/2356.jpg

This is That same 1999 VIN 9 with a LT1 Knock Module. Also #2 run on this PCM
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Fiero/2243.jpg

This is a Modified 1999 VIN Y PCM. It is a 150 MPH VIN Y
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/dyno/Fiero/2399.jpg

The LS1 looks like it is not on the scale correctly. The peak RPM is way off

eldorado1
04-24-08, 06:09 PM
A+ for effort

But your dyno's aren't adding up. Are these all on the same engine? Vin y or Vin 9? Your stock Vin y is showing 340 ft-lb? I'm confused.

For future reference, see if you can get some runs that start at 2500. 4000 and up is great and all, but we're missing a large portion of the picture. Use a PCM override if you need it to stay in one gear.

AJxtcman
04-24-08, 07:19 PM
A+ for effort

But your dyno's aren't adding up. Are these all on the same engine? Vin y or Vin 9? Your stock Vin y is showing 340 ft-lb? I'm confused.

For future reference, see if you can get some runs that start at 2500. 4000 and up is great and all, but we're missing a large portion of the picture. Use a PCM override if you need it to stay in one gear.

That was my point on the last post. They don't add up

Dubya
07-02-08, 09:22 PM
so i know this is old, but Ur7x....its common knowledge that whatever you dyno on a mustang dyno, multiply that by 1.13 and thats approx what you would dyno on a dynojet.

dynojets ALWAYS give higher numbers...do a simple google search about this if you dont believe him.

Ur7x
07-03-08, 03:15 PM
Thanks for the tip Dub... and welcome to 6 months ago...

Yes we had this debate and yes I know that all dynos vary...

That's why I posted, about a year ago, a very easy, clean and dependable way to ELIMINATE any debate about the dyno...

Step one... take a car (Vin 9 or Y) run it on XYZ dyno with the stock PCM
Step two the SAME CAR... run it on the SAME XYZ dyno with the tuned PCM... MAKE NO OTHER CHANGES TO THE CAR between the two runs...

The difference is the power that the PCM makes... Simple, no? and yet in almost 2 years of debate no one has done this... Why?

I can only guess that it is more fun arguing about what is going on then actually documenting and proving it.

BTW
AJ's stock vin 9 run of ~235 is right mid pack of what I have seen these cars on the dyno... The Vin 9 cars are remarkably consistent with dyno numbers ranging from 230-245

Dubya
07-03-08, 03:39 PM
Thanks for the tip Dub... and welcome to 6 months ago...

Yes we had this debate and yes I know that all dynos vary...

That's why I posted, about a year ago, a very easy, clean and dependable way to ELIMINATE any debate about the dyno...

Step one... take a car (Vin 9 or Y) run it on XYZ dyno with the stock PCM
Step two the SAME CAR... run it on the SAME XYZ dyno with the tuned PCM... MAKE NO OTHER CHANGES TO THE CAR between the two runs...

The difference is the power that the PCM makes... Simple, no? and yet in almost 2 years of debate no one has done this... Why?

I can only guess that it is more fun arguing about what is going on then actually documenting and proving it.

BTW
AJ's stock vin 9 run of ~235 is right mid pack of what I have seen these cars on the dyno... The Vin 9 cars are remarkably consistent with dyno numbers ranging from 230-245

3-3 1/2 months ago...but who's counting, right? (besides you)

i just dont want people to read your misinformation on this sticky and take it for fact, and not the incorrect opinion that it was :)

dyno numbers can be made to show any number you want, thats the truth. i picked up 5hp and 4 tq on my dyno about 3 weeks ago by doing.....nothing. i ran, waited 10 minutes and ran again.

sae corrects for things like temp and pressure the best it can. but something as simple as coming back the next day and the car not sitting exactly in the same spot on the drum.

Ur7x
07-03-08, 05:09 PM
3-3 1/2 months ago...but who's counting, right? (besides you)

i just dont want people to read your misinformation on this sticky and take it for fact, and not the incorrect opinion that it was :)

dyno numbers can be made to show any number you want, thats the truth. i picked up 5hp and 4 tq on my dyno about 3 weeks ago by doing.....nothing. i ran, waited 10 minutes and ran again.

sae corrects for things like temp and pressure the best it can. but something as simple as coming back the next day and the car not sitting exactly in the same spot on the drum.

I'm not sure I understand which sticky you are talking about, or which misinformation... but i think we are in agreement here.. And I think I posted that (about 3 1/2 months ago)

Yes you can get variance on a dyno... That's why I suggested the average of 3 run... Yes dynos aren't perfect either... a simple thing like how tightly to tie the car down can cost 5 hp.

I also suspect that is the reason that 16 months later we STILL don't have a "pair" of dyno runs... Any measuring device will have an "error" factor if the error factor of the dyno is +/- 5hp at 300hp and AJ's tune only make 5hp then you won't see any difference.

Of course, the butt dyno data would suggest that AJ's tune is atleast 20-30hp over stock... but we still don't know for sure.

Are you saying that there is no way to prove this dyno and thats why no one has?

AJxtcman
08-14-08, 08:24 PM
This is interesting :hmm:

DD vs DJ (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=966254)