: PS2s vs F1s



crankedupforit
11-23-07, 01:19 PM
I'm kinda on the fence for replacing my F1s with something else. For all you guys out there on PS2s, if the F1s weren't so expensive and lasted longer, would you still make the change? I'll be running FG2s and the GMPD sway bars this spring (waiting to install). You hear alot about how the CTS V suspension was designed for F1s and the thinner sidewalls on the PS2s will fold up under the V's weight. Yet the Audi RS4 and other cars use them and they are at least the same weight as the V or heavier. The only real bitch I have about the F1s is that they have a poor ride quality. The PS2s are supposed to ride very nice. Other than that, they are the stickiest tires I ever owned. I'm wondering when I upgrade the suspension and install new F1s, the thing will ride like a chuck wagon. So if the F1s were the same price as PS2s, would you still switch?

50 4Ever
11-23-07, 01:38 PM
Yes I would still switch to PS2's even if the F1's were cheaper. The main reason is to get away from the runflats. I run PS2's on the Corvette and the V, great tires.

According to Tirerack dot com the max load for each tire are the same at 1565 pounds per tire. Also I can tell you that the PS2's are sticker than the F1's because they are made of two different compounds; the sidewalls are made of a hard compound and the tread is a softer compound. On the road track the PS2's don't hookup quite as soon as the F1's but when they do hookup they corner better than the F1's. Also when the F1's I had on the Corvette would heat up to more than 37 PSI I would get off the track because the F1's weree no good above 37 PSI.

I don't know where you heard this nonsense about the weight of the V will cause the tire to fold up. Because of the softer sidewall (non-runflat) the tire will have a tendency to roll a bit more so just don't run them at low pressure.

:thumbsup:

lunarx
11-23-07, 01:46 PM
I'm with you on this.
I am very impressed with the F1 EMT.
Before driving on F1 I always dismissed Goodyear products as over priced and/or over hyped.
I still think that applies to the rest of their product line.
(Except maybe for the new Response Edge, which I wanted to try on my Odyssey)
The F1 however, is the real deal.

To awnser your question if I could get them for a good price I would definetly continue using them.

In fact that is what I did.
I scored a brand new pair and a very lightly used pair7/32 (new is 9/32) on ebay.

I never got to use either, as I did not keep that V long enough to wear out it's F1.

The V I have now has suspension mods for 275's all around.
It rolls on 275-35-19 PS2.

I wish the F1 EMT came in my size, as I prefer to have Run Flats vs keeping a spare in the trunk.

To get the PS2 to handle good, they need more air pressure (than F1).
Once you do that, they don't seem to ride any smoother than the F1.

Also, I can't say the PS2 is super quiet, but I have never experienced a quiet tire.
BTW - I never considered F1 or PS2 as loud either.
I feel they are very similar in that regard.

PS2 is hugely better in the wet though.
There is no contest there.

If you need a pair of F1 (cheap), I still have the 7/32 pair left.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3226&sort=1&cat=23&page=1

You can have 1st dibs on it before I create a seperate listing for it in the classifieds.



I can confirm what 50 said, since I tracked on PS2 for a year in my WRX & roll on PS2 now in my current V and I did 2 sessions (not events) on my previous V w/ F1's.

PS2 comes in as they heat up.
When they are cold during normal street driving, they are not at their full potential.
It makes them feel squirmy when you 1st get on them.
Running more cold pressure helps with that.

Alternatively, the F1 grip is right there for you sooner when street driving.
F1 pressures must be watched when driving hard.
Like a real track tire (with stiff sidewalls) they loose performance when pressures reach the high 30's.
You have to pressurize, according to your max hot pressures, to keep them at their optimum.
They definetly hold up well on track as I did not notice any significant wear after my 2 sessions.

crankedupforit
11-23-07, 01:54 PM
Thanks 50
I know you track your V so your advice to appreciated. There were some comments on the forum about the PS2s being a bit soft and squirmy, however that may be a feeling you get when coming from F1s which are incredibly hard. What pressures do you run? I actually have set PS2s on my A4 Avant, however that car does not not have enough oomph to really push the tires to the limit like the V does (it weighs the same though). I'm beginning to think that the EMTs were selected for the V to eliminate the spare and keep the weight of the car down, and also perhaps to follow in the footsteps of the corvette. Most F1 appliations are for cars that cannot provide a spare like the vette and the ford GT.

50 4Ever
11-23-07, 03:16 PM
Thanks 50
I know you track your V so your advice to appreciated. There were some comments on the forum about the PS2s being a bit soft and squirmy, however that may be a feeling you get when coming from F1s which are incredibly hard. What pressures do you run? I actually have set PS2s on my A4 Avant, however that car does not not have enough oomph to really push the tires to the limit like the V does (it weighs the same though). I'm beginning to think that the EMTs were selected for the V to eliminate the spare and keep the weight of the car down, and also perhaps to follow in the footsteps of the corvette. Most F1 appliations are for cars that cannot provide a spare like the vette and the ford GT.

When I check my tire pressure I do it in the morning and run 31 psi all around. When I track it I have found out what works best for me is to check the pressure a few minutes before each session and lower the pressure to 32 front and 33 rear. I aim for them to heat up to about 37 all around. So with that pressure to start out with it takes a couple of laps to warm up the tires so I don't push it the first few laps. The first time I had the V on the track it had F1's and I noticed the back end wanting to step out more than usual so I got off the track and the pressures were 40+. A few pounds makes a lot of difference. You get them too low, like I did on the Corvette 4 years ago, and you can scrub off the shoulders. That session I ruined a set of F1's, I lowered the pressure before the session to 30 all around, that was costly.

You're right about the runflat, they were designed at the request of the auto makers. The first ones I saw were on the Corvette when they went to different size tires front & rear. I hear that runflats and tire pressure sensors will be standard on all cars in a few years.

As for the PS2 being more squirmy, I don't notice it.

:thumbsup:

Keys8541
11-23-07, 03:46 PM
Ok, Ive noticed that a lot of you guys go to the track with your V's. I on the other hand use the normal road as my track and just dog the crap out of the car about 3 months total out of the year. which tires should i get if this is my goal. Keep in mind i dont care about how fast they wear out, i will just buy new ones, but i do want badass tires. Im thinking someone is going to tell me about these PS2's, who makes them? and what about those toyos or some other japaneese tire company. Can you tell i know nothing about tires....?

lunarx
11-23-07, 04:45 PM
Ok, Ive noticed that a lot of you guys go to the track with your V's. I on the other hand use the normal road as my track and just dog the crap out of the car about 3 months total out of the year. which tires should i get if this is my goal. Keep in mind i dont care about how fast they wear out, i will just buy new ones, but i do want badass tires. Im thinking someone is going to tell me about these PS2's, who makes them? and what about those toyos or some other japaneese tire company. Can you tell i know nothing about tires....?

For you (and me if they made my size);
Bridgestone RE-01R 245-45-18

alternatively;
Falken Azenis RT-615 255-45-18 (or 255-40-18)

PS2 is to mellow for you, they are more of an all around tire; comfort, quiet, wet, wear etc.
Very good across the board though.

50 4Ever
11-23-07, 06:45 PM
...
Im thinking someone is going to tell me about these PS2's, who makes them? ...

Michelin

CVP33
11-23-07, 11:31 PM
Vredesteins. They're for real. And now for my public flogging by StealthV and BigJim, amongst others.

http://www.srt8oc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2495&d=1195764182
http://www.srt8oc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2493&d=1195764151

lunarx
11-23-07, 11:57 PM
Vredesteins. They're for real. And now for my public flogging by StealthV and BigJim, amongst others.

http://www.srt8oc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2495&d=1195764182
http://www.srt8oc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2493&d=1195764151

Look Cool :cool:

I like that they are asymetrical.

Lot's of sizes available too.
http://www.vredestein.com/Banden_Bandtypes.asp?BandgroepID=1&BandtoepassingID=0&BandtypeID=3&PageID=2&Rimsize=18&UserSessionID=50730097

Do you know what the treadwear rating is?

Their Void Ratio looks kind of high.

Are they really better than RT-615 and RE-01R?

Albertan
11-24-07, 01:23 AM
CVP
What were you doing taking pictures of your tire treads at a quarter to 3 in the morning?

CVP33
11-24-07, 08:29 AM
CVP
What were you doing taking pictures of your tire treads at a quarter to 3 in the morning?

I gotta reset that clock! Believe me it wasn't 2.45am. I laid 370 landscaping bricks from 6:00pm until 9:30pm. I can barely stand upright, let alone stay awake past 11pm.

No, I wouldn't say the tires are better than the Falken 615's. But on my pig, they were better than F1's, RSA's and Falken 452's. Surprisingly quiet, great bite and no rollover. I was worried about rollover running 275/40's, but no issues. Great tire, but probably not the equal of the 615's.

thebigjimsho
11-24-07, 02:05 PM
Look Cool :cool:

I like that they are asymetrical.

Lot's of sizes available too.
http://www.vredestein.com/Banden_Bandtypes.asp?BandgroepID=1&BandtoepassingID=0&BandtypeID=3&PageID=2&Rimsize=18&UserSessionID=50730097

Do you know what the treadwear rating is?

Their Void Ratio looks kind of high.

Are they really better than RT-615 and RE-01R?They're not asymmetrical. They are indeed symmetrical since they don't make L and R tires. They twist the same goofy way on both sides. I guess they're both asymmetrical and symmetrical. DAMMIT, why do I have to torch my brain on a Saturday???

thebigjimsho
11-24-07, 02:07 PM
I can barely stand upright, let alone stay awake past 11pm.

Kinda like getting raped by a V?

thebigjimsho
11-24-07, 02:28 PM
The only wild card for me is the RE-01R from Bridgestone. That I don't know much about personally.


As for F1 vs PS2, I go with PS2 all day, everyday. The F1 is a great tire and I got pretty decent mileage out of them as well. The F1 has the immediacy of the EMT's stiff sidewall and great grip overall. Add the convenience of a runflat and it's a great package. If you worry about the unknown, just getting these again will be fine.

As for the PS2, it doesn't have the uber-stiff sidewall of the F1. But, while its turn-in is a little softer, the overall grip is greater. And the turn-in is very stable from off center all the way to max grip. That is why I love the PS2 so much. The F1, you just rip and grip the wheel. But that doesn't give you a great feel to where the limit of the tire is. The PS2 is exactly the opposite. You know what the tire, and ultimately the car, is doing all the way to its limits. Add the added comfort of the softer sidewall and the excellent drainage of water and the tire is a winner.

The Falkens were a surprising tire to me. What they give you for the price is a great value. But if you're going to be tracking the V, it may not be the best choice for you. Where the price comes into play is where they do not have the best compounds for track days. They'll get hot and squirrely on you as heat builds up.

crankedupforit
11-24-07, 05:08 PM
The only wild card for me is the RE-01R from Bridgestone. That I don't know much about personally.


As for F1 vs PS2, I go with PS2 all day, everyday. The F1 is a great tire and I got pretty decent mileage out of them as well. The F1 has the immediacy of the EMT's stiff sidewall and great grip overall. Add the convenience of a runflat and it's a great package. If you worry about the unknown, just getting these again will be fine.

As for the PS2, it doesn't have the uber-stiff sidewall of the F1. But, while its turn-in is a little softer, the overall grip is greater. And the turn-in is very stable from off center all the way to max grip. That is why I love the PS2 so much. The F1, you just rip and grip the wheel. But that doesn't give you a great feel to where the limit of the tire is. The PS2 is exactly the opposite. You know what the tire, and ultimately the car, is doing all the way to its limits. Add the added comfort of the softer sidewall and the excellent drainage of water and the tire is a winner.

The Falkens were a surprising tire to me. What they give you for the price is a great value. But if you're going to be tracking the V, it may not be the best choice for you. Where the price comes into play is where they do not have the best compounds for track days. They'll get hot and squirrely on you as heat builds up.

Jim
Do you agree as well that the PS2s take a while to heat up to the stick. When you rip and grip the F1s, what is that exactly? Also what do you guys use an alternative to a spare? Air supply? Sealant? Thanks for the helpful advice!

CVP33
11-24-07, 05:25 PM
Kinda like getting raped by a V?

:helpless: You've hurt my feelings. Wait......wait.......wait, crap I just got over it. I just can't stay mad at you BJ. I mean who could hate a BJ? It's un-American.

thebigjimsho
11-25-07, 10:34 PM
Jim
Do you agree as well that the PS2s take a while to heat up to the stick. When you rip and grip the F1s, what is that exactly? Also what do you guys use an alternative to a spare? Air supply? Sealant? Thanks for the helpful advice!I don't think they take that long to heat up. As for ripping and gripping the F1s, I mean you can just saw at the wheel and the car will turn immediately, like on rails. But as I said before, it doesn't give you a great feel of where the limit will be.

As for a spare, I got a spare stock wheel with F1. Pull out the tub and brace and put the spare in hub side down.