test drove a blk/blk 02 STS today with 63K miles

Car was at an independent dealer lot near me

very clean...HID headlights and factory XM radio( which I didn't know was an option)...manufactured 04/02...so I guess it would have all the latest and greatest updates, including the Mag Ride

a couple of issues though....across the screen in the dash it read
"check brake pads"
"check vehicle security system"

are these big issues?

The dealer said they had just done brakes on the car and that it needed a sensor for the brake warning issues ..and that they would be replacing that

he said he didn't know about the "check security system warning"

other than that car looked very clean...ran and drove well..he is asking $12,995....thought I would offer $12,000


thoughts?



Warren

Run the DTC's and you'll find out what is causing the check security system warning.

nope
doesnt mean its a magride at all
vin is needed
and checking under the trunk spare tire cover for F55
oh and CODES for you problems would help....

Id hold out for a 2003, 12000 isnt all that cheap.

January '02 was the break point for MagneRide. Anything with a VIN sequence date after that should have been laid down with F55. There are a few threads concerning just this earlier last summer. The security warning will come and go depending on battery voltage and how the car was last locked. Figure on 1 a month. Go to www.kbb.com (http://www.kbb.com) and enter the best guess you have for vehicle condition and pull trade, private, retail sales. That should put you in the ballpark. Dealer-wise, 12k is in the ballpark for retail excellent. In any event, make sure the brake pad warning is taken care of.

BTW, 04/02 was near the end of run for the year builds. 03's were being stamped out in the end of June '02.

Assuming that the brakes really HAVE been changed, the sensor "kit" is no big deal. It's just a wire with a plug on each end. $25 at Rockauto if I recall correctly.

nope
doesnt mean its a magride at all
vin is needed
and checking under the trunk spare tire cover for F55
oh and CODES for you problems would help....



I looked under the spare tire cover...to see if there was water...not sure where to look for the Mag ride stamp

here is the VIN 1g6ky54932u270782 of the car


Warren

I looked under the spare tire cover...to see if there was water...not sure where to look for the Mag ride stamp

here is the VIN 1g6ky54932u270782 of the car


Warren

"F55" will be an RPO code grouped in with all the others if it's a Magnaride car, it is literally a STICKER located ON the tire cover itself when you lift it up.

The spare tire cover will have 3 or 4 stickers on it. One will have a slew of 3-character codes in 3 or 4 rows. Those are the RPO (regular production option) codes and may be read by downloading the RPO code list from the top of one of these forums. F55 is MagneRide.

The bottom of the sticker will have a 3 number/2 or 3 letter code like "U379 BC/CC" or some such..that's the paint number and process (color)-(BaseBoat/ClearCoat)

The last 6 digits of your VIN are quite a bit later in the production sequence than my late '02 F55 car, so the one you're looking at is a F55 suspension also.

thats a magride
its after the break point
12k is pretty good
i paid 16,500 for my 03 fully optioned minus W tires and Nav with 45K

Car went in-service in PA in 2002 as a leased vehicle. 5/11/05 at 35,018 miles it was reported at auction in MI and then went to OH, reported at auction again in OH 7/27/05 with 36,660 miles. Since then it has been titled and registered in Northfield, OH.

cool...and what difference will the magride make versues a non equipped one

what differences will i notice versus the same year model with that feature?


Warren

the thing will handle like a friggen pace car
no more active struts
magnetic fluid controls them
they read the road 100X faster than the older struts
do a search i posted ALOT of info on this

Warren,
This is too funny!!!

We both signed up on this site at about the same time, looking for a 2002-2003 Seville STS to buy next year.

Next thing we know, were both looking for a 2002-2003 Seville STS now! :D

I'm so tempted, I'm having a hard time waiting for next year...lol

turrne, The MagneRide system was introduced in mid '02 on the Seville in order to groom the sensing rates , then it also went into Corvette. It is now also used in some Ferrari and Lamborghini models. It consists of struts and shocks filled with a synthetic fluid with suspended ferrous (iron) particles. The fluid density is electrically controlled by sensors which change the fluid to a jelly-like substance and back to fluid instantly. The result is, when the stability and suspension control systems sense "aggressive" driving conditions the suspension hardens and the car, even at 4,000 lbs, flattens out and becomes much "stiffer".

ahhh...I think I understand

funny thing I was thinking it rode a little softer than the 2001 4.0 Aurora that I have now..however I have had new rear shocks and front structs put on it


Interesting thing about the Seville I noticed yesterday...there was an open space near the sunroof buttons...I thought it looked a little strange
maybe a place to put sunglasses?

but after looking at some pictures of other STS's this was the space where the homelink transmitter buttons are supposed to be

It was completely open space

really I don't case as I have a couple of extra garage door openers I can use...and perhaps thats anothet subtraction in the price

but anyway I it was funny


so if this thing has magride and no active struts like the older ones....what does that mean for maintenance and repair issues?( if needed)


Warren

:stirpot: It does have active suspension, struts and all, moreso than CVRSS.......no real maintenance, but scary replacement costs.

last time i checked the magride struts are actually CHEAPER than the CVRSS, not by much but still though...

2003...Yep, close, but still scary !!!

and would you call scary?

and keep in mind the resale value of this car...lol


by the way i just looked at extended warranty prices to cover this car for 3 years up to 100K total ...35% of the cars value..lol



Warren

Sub, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the fluid viscosity is varied by the amount of current applied, no? I got the impression you are saying it is liquid or jelly with no in between.

Warren,
The MagnaRide struts are cheaper than the old CVRSS struts though I don't know how much. The CVRSS struts where $700-$1000 each as I recall depending on where you got them.

and would you call scary?

and keep in mind the resale value of this car...lol


by the way i just looked at extended warranty prices to cover this car for 3 years up to 100K total ...35% of the cars value..lol



Warren

Be careful too, alot of the cheaper ones will exclude seals and gaskets coverage or throw other loopholes in there.

Wow...$700 to $1,000 each. Do they wear out after 150K miles or are you usually good for the life of the car?

They definitely wear out anywhere between 90 and 150k miles. Gradually youll start getting more of a thud and loss of compliance and just a generally unpleasant and poorer handling ride. Sometimes they go longer, but just plan on having this be replaced at some point.

Another reason why I wanted the SLS when I bought the last car, passive struts. Also glad my DHS has them. That said, Magnaride is very simple. No valves to fail. Should be cheaper and much more reliable.

So the SLS and DHS have ELC but a passive suspension?

That DOES definitely give the SLS one positive for me. I think I had heard that before but forgot about it. Ill have to keep that in mind if I come across a really pretty SLS.

So it would cost over $4,000 to replace the struts on a 2003 Seville STS with Magnaride?

Sub, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the fluid viscosity is varied by the amount of current applied, no? I got the impression you are saying it is liquid or jelly with no in between.

Warren,
The MagnaRide struts are cheaper than the old CVRSS struts though I don't know how much. The CVRSS struts where $700-$1000 each as I recall depending on where you got them.

that is scary...I looked at Rock Auto's pricing on the magride ones...836.00 each or so as I recall...and yes the other ones were more expensive by about 100 each

My question is how long do these generally last?...80..100...120K miles

You can understand me if I say that I would have a real hard time investing $2500 in the suspension on a car that is perhaps worth $5000



Warren

Enjoy it .Scary or not I think it's worth it lol

that is scary...I looked at Rock Auto's pricing on the magride ones...836.00 each or so as I recall...and yes the other ones were more expensive by about 100 each

My question is how long do these generally last?...80..100...120K miles

You can understand me if I say that I would have a real hard time investing $2500 in the suspension on a car that is perhaps worth $5000



Warren

Warren,

I used to have that attitude on these cars too, but the truth is you simply can't look at it like that.

It really comes down to how much you love the car and whether there is anything else out there that would satisfy you in a similar way for such little money. The Northstar headgasket repair is the biggest one of these, the suspension you usually wont get hit with all at the same time, and 02 Northstars arent really known for HG issues, at least we aren't seeing them yet.

The bottom line is, you are buying a 55000.00 car for anywhere between 10 and 25 percent of its original value (depending on what year), HOWEVER those PARTS costs are still the same parts costs of a 55000.00 car. You have to just let it go when you need something fixed because your not going to be able to do EVERYTHING on the car for that same 10-20 percent of the MSRP.

Perhaps the biggest lesson learned here with these cars is to be picky about a used one. Don't buy one that has been molested.

Perhaps the biggest lesson learned here with these cars is to be picky about a used one. Don't buy one that has been molested.

I think there is more than that lesson here

It has been pointed out you can't consdier the value if you enjoy the car...well honestly there are cars out there that I could enjoy a lot more that are about the same repair costs( or less) that would have been in the same ballpark price as the STS was new( but..yes a lot more expensive used) ...the BMW 540 comes to mind
And from what I have seen in the junkyards there must be a lot of people that look at what the repair costs are in ratio to what the value is of what they are fixing

Just for grins last night I looked at extended warranty quotes

all of these are based on the same coverage...same compnay..02 model cars with 60K miles
36 month 100K( total odometer) mileage warranty...whichever comes first from the date or purchase

2002 Cadillac STS $4200.00
2002 BMW 745 $5100.00( I currently own an 00)
2002 BMW 540 $5100.00
2002 Olds Aurora 4.0 $3400.00( I currently own an 01)
2002 Jaguar XJ8 $4300.00 add 800.00 for supercharged models
2002 LS430 $2300.00


some of these numbers I thought were eye openers...the two GM cars warranty costs represent about 35% of their retail value...and that Lexus number is just incredible for their top of the line model which is full of electronics and complexity



Warren

Thought I'd chime in with the official GM prices
Fronts are the same number # 88955399 $977 each !
Rears are cheaper, but not by much:
RH # 22400278 $867
LH # 22400277 $775

not sure why there's a price discrepancy there on the rears

Thought I'd chime in with the official GM prices
Fronts are the same number # 88955399 $977 each !
Rears are cheaper, but not by much:
RH # 22400278 $867
LH # 22400277 $775

not sure why there's a price discrepancy there on the rears


so let me make sure I understand this...by the time you need to replace the suspension..it was at about 98K on my Aurora...you will spend about $4000 to get the "mag ride" back which was one of the big reasons the car was so pleasurable

However at that point..I am citing the 02 I am looking at and judging my driving mileage parameters and what the car is worth today...the car then would be worth between 6000 and 7000 dollars..and if there is anything else wrong you could easlilly spend more on the car than it is worth in fixed condiion

am I understanding that?

do people really drop $4000 in $6500 cars?..or is that a Cadillac thing

I have driven Mercedes cars for several years( a few different models) and it takes years( more than 10 usually) where the repair $$ is any significant amount as compared to the cars value

if that is the case I understand why there are a lot of Cadillacs in the junktyard....I don't think a lot of people would make those investement decisions


Warren

The Magna ride struts should last much longer than the CVRSS struts. Since there are no moving parts, I would expect them to last as long as any other strut.

The Magna ride struts should last much longer than the CVRSS struts. Since there are no moving parts, I would expect them to last as long as any other strut.



well for that repair/replacement price versus the cars most likely future value at the time they need replaced

they should last a minmum of 150K miles( or more) or average driving..ie...the average life of the transmission or engine in the car if it has been maintained


Warren

:sneaky: Old history, Ranger, but I re-read that post and should have said ".......selectively changes from fluid to jelly and back depending on......" or some such.

Still a neat system. Curious the way we wonder about the cost of strut/shock replacement and then duck into another thread about turbos, wheels, TV's, Nav systems and crate engines.
:histeric:

You guys think you got it bad? $4,000 for all four new CVRSS struts?

I can top that.... $4,000 for both rear shocks on my Mercedes S320, and they're not even active.

You guys think you got it bad? $4,000 for all four new CVRSS struts?

I can top that.... $4,000 for both rear shocks on my Mercedes S320, and they're not even active.
Man...just stick with the copper Sedan Deville in your profile. Rear shocks at Auto Zone for $14.99 each with a lifetime warranty. :D

You guys think you got it bad? $4,000 for all four new CVRSS struts?

I can top that.... $4,000 for both rear shocks on my Mercedes S320, and they're not even active.



what?!!...did that include a new transmission?

what year S320 do you have...I used to have a 1992 S class for many years
Those bilsteins on those cars regularly last 250K miles or more before they get bad
And even if you replaced them that sounds about 3 times the price you should have paid for just replacement of the rears...
The S 320 had passive suspension..you had to go up the S500 to get the air leveling ones in the rear


Warren

I didn't know a MB W140 cost that much to replace the shocks to new ones ......No misspell ,right ?

what?!!...did that include a new transmission?

what year S320 do you have...I used to have a 1992 S class for many years
Those bilsteins on those cars regularly last 250K miles or more before they get bad
And even if you replaced them that sounds about 3 times the price you should have paid for just replacement of the rears...
The S 320 had passive suspension..you had to go up the S500 to get the air leveling ones in the rear


Warren

Oh, I've got the auto leveling ones, but they're not air, they're hydraulic. That was the one reason I wanted the S320, so I wouldn't have those, as they were an option on the 320 and 420, but standard on the 500 and 600...guess I should have done more research on that particular car. Oh well though, from what I've heard, even the Hydropneumatic suspension is made to last more than 200k.

Warren,
I found an 03 STS for $12,900 with 95,000 miles, which is like 23K miles yearly. They won't really budge much on the price, and the carfax on it shows it had 3 owners.

I think I'm gonna wait until next year. I bet I could buy the same car next year for the same or less money and less miles.

millage while playing a HUGE factor in weather youll pay how much their asking, usually doesnt affect the price as much now-a-days

well let them sit on the car then

it seems on these cars mileage play a huge factor in what its worth
cars over 80K seem to have a huge disproportionate drop in value

its not like there won't be another that comes along shortly

btw has anyone paid the $2500 to 3000 to have suspension replaced on say a 99 or 00 model year STS?

Its hard for me to get past the ratio of the car repair cost to what the car is worth( fixed)



Warren

ive had to replace one strut on my dads 98
went to a salvage yard for it

ive had to replace one strut on my dads 98
went to a salvage yard for it


That sounds like the way to go....and having noticed that there are several of these cars in the junkyard...thats the way to go



Warren