I was on my way to deliver the Seville to it's new owner tonight, and halfway there the thing sprung a leak on me near the right side of the radiator. I had to leave at the Haines City Shell station and Im going to have to have it towed to either the dealer or a radiator shop tomorrow morning. Im not sure if a pressure hose busted or if the radiator itself is shot.

A couple of hours before I powerwashed the car and I may have done something when I was going across the front of the car.

Anyway, anyone ever had this happen on a Seville, and what's the cost to have the radiator replaced at the stealership?

The only shops around there are a Chevrolet store called Lott-Mather, a place called Snyder's and Ed Morse Cadillac 16 miles away.

Im half tempted to just drive the car to Ed Morse tomorrow morning. Can I do this without hurting it? The "Check Coolant" message had not appeared in the DIC yet when I left it, Im imagining by morning all the coolant will be gone though so Im thinking of having it towed. The shell station I left it at also has their own tow service. Frieken Seville's and coolant, it's a never ending saga of new ways to have a coolant related failure.

EDIT: Well I stand corrected, Jesda told me there was an Ed Morse around there but I cant find it anywhere. So I think the Chevy dealer would be the next bet. Or a radiator shop if I can find one open.

Im guessing $700 at Ed Morse?

What year Seville?

Hopefully it's just a hose. If you try to drive it, just top it off before you go and of course, keep a close eye on it. I would only go for a short distance. The engine will be cold in the morning anyway.

Im seriously tempted to do it to save the tow cost and keep peoples hands off my car. Lott-Mather Chevrolet opens at 730AM and its 9.9 miles down the road. There is no Cadillac dealer close enough to drive to. Its a 1998.

The only thing that was a little scary was I could see steam coming from the engine compartment. I know its coolant hitting hot engine compartment parts but its always a disconcerting thing to see white stuff billowing from your motor. Seville was just truckin right along though.

It's probably just the hose. Problem is that the hose is special order. When mine went, I had to go to orielly's, which has a warehouse close to me, so I picked it up that day.

The only thing that was a little scary was I could see steam coming from the engine compartment. I know its coolant hitting hot engine compartment parts but its always a disconcerting thing to see white stuff billowing from your motor. Seville was just truckin right along though.
The car was just mad, it did not want a new owner...LOL :D

Hopefully just the hose, let us know what happens.

If you have the luxury of time to check prices I would do it. I did the radiator in my 90 CDV, it was $300 at Autozone, but the guy where I get my oil changed (who was also the one who spotted the leak) told me about a local radiator shop who hooked me up for $199 for a Modine. That was just for the radiator - I did the install. If you do it be prepared for transmission cooling lines and possibly oil cooling lines on the other side - I found those on the CDV.

Also, on the STS, whether you do it or have it done, double check that the top radiator hose is routed correctly through the black plastic cowl on the radiator support when the repair is complete. Before I got mine somebody had been monkeying with it and the hose was outside the cowl. And guess where it ends up... right up against the water pump belt. I had a wear spot the width of the belt about halfway through the hose wall. I had maybe 100 - 200 miles left when I spotted it.

Thanks Chubbyranger. Yes I noticed that routing under the shroud was completely flimsy.

Well, the car is supposed to be on its way to the Chevy Dealership now, so we will see how bad the damage is. The clock starts at 85.00 for the tow.

In the possible though not likely category, I spoke to mtflight a few days ago and he had the same problem. Turned out one of the fan bearings was wearing, causing play in the shaft. Believe it or not, the play became bad enough to allow blade contact with the radiator, slow enough so that he never heard it. Over time it wore through caused a leak.

Okay, Im not quite sure I get this, but apparently the water pump is the fault. They are going to replace the WP the Thermostat and something else. Since Im selling the car I wonder if they can just do the WP. Im just not sure I understand how the WP can cause coolant to be all over the radiator like that.

The total is 392.00.

I checked my voicemail late last night (phone was off all day) and I think Ian called regarding this. Is that what you wanted Ian? I couldn't hear much...my phone has terrible reception and it was all staticky.

Yea that was it. I was just going to ask you whether a Chevy dealership would be ok with me dropping a Caddy off to them in an emergency since their sign said "GM Service and Parts".

Oh yeah, most places would just as long as it's not too complicated or anything involving the Northstar.

When did you call? I had my phone on "airplane mode" all night (no signal) and I got your voicemail, but didn't see what time you called at.

DIY
save alot of $$$

This is starting to sound like a fishing expedition. You said the leak was on the right side. The water pump is on the left side and rarely will it spring a leak like that. The shaft seal will eventually wear and start to seep a bit. That will eventually get worse till you smell and see a leak. Your description would never lead me to suspect the water pump on a Northstar.

Well it sounds like your absolutely right. I got the car home tonight and its STILL leaking, its not making any steam, perhaps because there's dexcool in it I dont know. I managed to get it almost all the way home before the check coolant message showed up on the DIC and I filled it up to get it home the rest of the way. The puddle is definitely coming from the FRONT RIGHT part of the car. And now I can also hear a kind of fast seeping noise when the car is running toward that side.

The problem is now Im 60 miles away from the dealer who did the work, so Im clueless as to what to do.

What WOULD leak over on the right side like that?

Radiator, hose or surge tank, depending on what year it is. Did you pay for a water pump?

Yes I paid 465.00 for a new water pump and thermostat to be installed. And what pisses me off is I ASKED THE service advisor TWICE. I said do you really think it is the WP that is doing this with coolant leaking all over like that? And he of course said Yes. Although now with Chad explaining the SA's true role, Im sure he really didnt have a clue.

Im really, really pissed off right now. I really wanted to have a positive service experience with a GM dealership and I did not mind paying the extra for OEM work and parts.

Yes I paid 465.00 for a new water pump and thermostat to be installed. And what pisses me off is I ASKED THE service advisor TWICE. I said do you really think it is the WP that is doing this with coolant leaking all over like that? And he of course said Yes. Although now with Chad explaining the SA's true role, Im sure he really didnt have a clue.

Im really, really pissed off right now. I really wanted to have a positive service experience with a GM dealership and I did not mind paying the extra for OEM work and parts.

Ouch! Local dealer price around here for the water pump is $250! It's not a very tedious task, and as Ranger said it was leaking on the wrong side for it to be the water pump. I would call them and give them a serious earfull. I only had bad experiences with Chevy dealers guessing on problems and being wrong. I now do everything I can myself.

trust me man
i was actually kicked out of a dealer because i kept bringing my car back for a problem
they told me i must beat the shit out of my car and not to come back and thats what caused the abs and t/c light to randomly come on and not log codes
went to my current dealer and they said its the ignition switch they replaced it and it never came back
you explain how even if i did beat the crap outta my car how did that cause the ignition switch to go

moral of story though the advisor's 9/10 times are ass holes my current one is AWESOME he actually took the time to find out that someone (the original owner) bought a GMPP warranty for my car, and he docs up the info so that anytime i have a problem he claims it under the original owner and i pay 100 bucks out of pocket.

the mech also had to be a complete idiot to not ROAD TEST IT after the repair....

bring the car to me play ill fix it lol

I'd call them and have them foot the bill to tow it back as well as refund what you spent (labor at very minimum since you do have a new pump).

Obviously this SA was clueless. In hind site, you probably should have said no way when he said water pump and demanded a second opinion, knowing that it was impossible.

I'd call them and have them foot the bill to tow it back as well as refund what you spent (labor at very minimum since you do have a new pump).

Obviously this SA was clueless. In hind site, you probably should have said no way when he said water pump and demanded a second opinion, knowing that it was impossible.

No no, Im not quite as familiar as you with Northstars, I wasnt aware the WP was on the drivers side until I saw your message.

No no, Im not quite as familiar as you with Northstars, I wasnt aware the WP was on the drivers side until I saw your message.

Doesn't really matter - you brought that car to them to get a coolant leak fixed. It was their recommendation to replace the water pump to fix the coolant leak. The basic requirement of the contract remains unmet - to stop your car from spewing coolant. I'll bet the RO says something like "Customer says: car leaking coolant." I'm with Ranger - call them back and tell them they didn't do what you asked and they can credit you the labor toward finding the real problem. One downside here is that you went there in a tough spot, you aren't a previous customer and there's not much probablity that they are going to see you again in the future so they can afford to jerk you around. One of the few places I don't find that attitude is most Cadillac dealers - there you tend to be treated better by virtue of the fact that you own one, not where you got it. If they turn into dicks you can always try working your way up to the Service Manager or General
Manager and explain to them that you brought the car to them to get a problem corrected and $465 later you still have the problem. If that doesn't work you can always try the BBB complaint threat but at that point you're starting to lose ground and its time to consider Plan B.

Just had to fetch the wife's books from the garage and I poked my head under the hood of the STS and took a look at the right side of the radiator for possible leak spots. Along with the upper radiator hose mount I'll bet you have the stupid-a$$ liquid cooled alternator like I do which appears to feed from the right side of the radiator. I'm guessing if its on a 99 it was on a 98. Not sure when they got rid of it but whoever thought that was a good idea... :gun2:
Anyway, there's another possible culprit. And OBTW there was an alternator recall on our cars (98 - 99). Call any Cadillac dealer with the VIN and find out if it was done. Recall information is available at www.nhtsa.gov


Recalls Summary

Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
CADILLAC / SEVILLE 1998-1999

Recall Number: 99V070000
Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. AN ELECTRICAL SHORT CAN DEVELOP IN THE GENERATOR, EVEN WHEN THE ENGINE IS OFF.
Consequence:
THE ELECTRICAL SHORT COULD CAUSE AN ENGINE COMPARTMENT FIRE THAT COULD SPREAD TO THE REST OF THE VEHICLE AND ANYTHING NEAR IT.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE GENERATOR.
Notes:
OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN APRIL 24, 1999. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT CADILLAC AT 1-800-458-8006. ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).

wrong about 98
they DO NOT have a liquid cooled alt
my moms 98 doesnt at least maybe it was added in LATE 98 but i know it was a 99 and 99 ONLY thing due to the hazard.

Wow, are SA getting stupider by the day... GEEZE... Money mongers... I would suspect the side of your radiator is cracked down low. Allowing the majority of the coolant to leak out. (If the crack was up high on the side of the radiator, it would not leak past the crack.)..

I doubt it's the upper hose. Those things last a long time. rarely give out so soon unless it's damaged in some way by a moving component in the engine compartment.

There is a possibility your surge tank could also be cracked.

You can get a new radiator off eBay for about $130 shiipped. If you DIY.. you'll be below the $200 mark for a radiator replacement. Took me 3 days to do it the first time... Now that I''ve done one, I could do the work in one day.

Jason,

I thought that 2000 had the cooling alternators as well...

2000 is the N* redesign
i would assume with that they wouldnt of carried over the water cooled alt
i know my 03, 97, 98, 05 and the 06 V dont have one

and 3 days DAMN man, i usually have them out in about 2 hrs (i have to pull them every so often when im replacing an alt at work, sometimes i just cant get the old alt out without pulling it, other times i just have to pull the fans an put cardboard between the alt and rad)

Damn Gearhead, TWO posts about the cracked expansion tanks (AMGoff's and mine) and I peeled away the plastic shield and some shielding around the expansion tank and guess what.

I DO see what looks to be a crack, or the TOP of a crack on the FRONT side of the plastic expansion tank toward the top, and of course there's coolant around it.

Geezus man, Im not even a mechanic and with proper daylight IF THATS THE Cause, it took me all of FIVE minutes to find without even having seen your suggestion!!! NOW IM PISSED. They didnt even take the TIME to look.

Ill BRB going to take a picture for the gurus to look at.

play
if thats your problem fruck it
go to the u-pull it grab a tank throw it in and dump that STS so you can get YOUR STS
we need to get you modding that thing hahaha

Photos

http://www.q45.org/gallery2/d/3224-1/STS+029s.JPG

http://www.q45.org/gallery2/d/3227-1/STS+030s.JPG

http://www.q45.org/gallery2/d/3232-1/STS+031s.JPG

My guess from the start would've been one of your side tanks ... common problem, if one has cracked, I'd probably replace both in good faith.
Can you fill her up and check for seepage under the crack you've shown?
Out of curiousity, is your buyer getting gunshy over this issue?
Its not your fault ... you've gone to the expense of taking the car in for professional service (sarcasm), but I would think the buyer
would be a little concerned that the car broke down in the process of delivery?

You know the guy (his name is Alex) has been remarkably comfortable during this whole thing. Hes coming today to take his first real look at it and Ive even suggested giving his deposit back a couple of times, he seems to really like the car. I cant blame him, he got it for basically what I paid, and now he just got a brand new GM installed waterpump and thermostat for free. Basically taking me 450.00 under my cost for the car.

I didnt think the expansion tanks were available separately? Well of course except for STS2003's suggestion of pulling them from a wrecked car but F*** if I know how to pull and replace those.

I assume expansion tank is the Surge tank? If so, It should not be as involved as pulling the radiator.


Jason,

Geeze man. Read my post Dude...:duck::histeric: I said FIRST TIME... it took 3 hours cause I was being CAREFUL not to rip other shit up... Now that I know what is involved, I could probably do something like this in an hour/ hour and a half..... LMAO....

missed that part lol
i was gonna say
were you DRUNK when you attempt this?
rofl
play bring the car here to me if you want idk were it is now, i can replace the whole rad for you at cost. Itll be worlds cheaper for me to do it rather than have a dealer replace just the sidetank

i can prob get a rad through my discount for 150 bucks...

LOL we're a little far apart. Im down in Florida.

Ill probably just get a local radiator shop to do it around here so this buyer can get on his way or come back and get it later. Rest assured, Lott-Mather Chevrolet WILL hear from me tomorrow however.

Thats a very moist spot. If the crack is small I'd get some JB Weld and send the man on his way.

all depends on how well he wants to treat the buyer
ya JB weld would hold it
heck an egg will too
but its not so much a last forever fix
the guys been pretty reasonable thus far so i would treat him with respect and ask him if JB would be an OKAY repair by him to get him the car

Yea I thought about JB Weld, and Im sure hed be ok with it, but the thing is HOW do I get IN THERE to slather it on. I could barely get my hand in just to take the picture.

I need instructions for how to get at the tank to do that.

or
get the stuff you drop into the rad to fix the problem
if you do wanna put in on the outside of it, youll need to pull the rad fans and the washer fluid bottle
that should give you enough room to work your arms around the area to apply it
if i was in your position ie having no way to replace just te side tanks was selling the car, id JB it.
for my ETC when the problem cropped up, i replaced it will a full alumn rad (cost ME 250) and called it a day.

moral of story though the advisor's 9/10 times are ass holes my current one is AWESOME he actually took the time to find out that someone (the original owner) bought a GMPP warranty for my car, and he docs up the info so that anytime i have a problem he claims it under the original owner and i pay 100 bucks out of pocket.


I try and be one of the advisors that falls under the "other 10%" category, but after reading some of these horror stories on here, I really wanna quit my job!

Yes I paid 465.00 for a new water pump and thermostat to be installed. And what pisses me off is I ASKED THE service advisor TWICE. I said do you really think it is the WP that is doing this with coolant leaking all over like that? And he of course said Yes. Although now with Chad explaining the SA's true role, Im sure he really didnt have a clue.

Im really, really pissed off right now. I really wanted to have a positive service experience with a GM dealership and I did not mind paying the extra for OEM work and parts.


No offence Ian, because I know you had really no other choice in this saga, but that's why you generally don't bring a Cadillac to a Chevy dealer. We just don't like to deal with them, unless it's absolutley necessary, and apparently nobody at that dealer is very familiar with the Northstar. Nothing against that service advisor either, because it's not his job to know Cadillacs...it's his job to know Chevrolets. More than likely, he was just assuming the WP was on the passenger side to seem confident and make the sale..

JB-Weld.. Noooooooooo... Keep that stuff the hell away from the cooling system... When I replaced my Radiator, I broke the hose connection at the top of the surge tank while trying the disconnect the rubber hose from it. ( It had vacuum formed itself around the nipple)... In an attempt to repair the crack in the nipple, I used JB-Weld, let it sit for a day then reattached the hose to the surge tank. After a couple of days driving, I started to faintly smell trace of coolant once again inside and outside the car. I figured one of my hoses needed tightening. Upon inspection, saw the trickle of coolant coming from the top of the surge tank were the hose attached... Ummm, removed the hose, noticed that the hot coolant had softened up the JB-Weld to were it was like a putty, and was not longer holding up.....

Don't use JB Weld to patch up cooling systems.

Even if it will just allow me to get back to the dealership Ill be satisfied. I have JB Weld, but i decided to give some stuff called QuikSteel a try instead, well see how it holds up.

JB-Weld.. Noooooooooo... Keep that stuff the hell away from the cooling system... When I replaced my Radiator, I broke the hose connection at the top of the surge tank while trying the disconnect the rubber hose from it. ( It had vacuum formed itself around the nipple)... In an attempt to repair the crack in the nipple, I used JB-Weld, let it sit for a day then reattached the hose to the surge tank. After a couple of days driving, I started to faintly smell trace of coolant once again inside and outside the car. I figured one of my hoses needed tightening. Upon inspection, saw the trickle of coolant coming from the top of the surge tank were the hose attached... Ummm, removed the hose, noticed that the hot coolant had softened up the JB-Weld to were it was like a putty, and was not longer holding up.....

Don't use JB Weld to patch up cooling systems.

I think you are talking about the purge line nipple. I fixed one on my '97 over two years ago. Still holding. If done properly, it will last forever. JB Weld is good for twice the cooling system temp.

I think you are talking about the purge line nipple. I fixed one on my '97 over two years ago. Still holding. If done properly, it will last forever. JB Weld is good for twice the cooling system temp.

More than that, its nearly 500*.

However, it requires a 15 hour setup time, and for an application where there is water involved, you will need every last bit of that 15 hours.

I let mine set for 24 hrs. before it touched it. I also scuffed it up good with an 80 grit paper before applying the J.B. and built a little dam with putty to keep it from running.

I let mine set for 24 hrs. before it touched it. I also scuffed it up good with an 80 grit paper before applying the J.B. and built a little dam with putty to keep it from running.

YEP! Definitely scuffing up the surface will do WONDERS for the adhesion of those hardener products.

Called that dealership this morning, spoke to my SA, who then had the Service Manager call me back. He of course tried to tell me the Water Pump was on the pass. side of the engine AGAIN and I had to school him on its true location (thanks Ranger). They are having the car towed back to their place, we will see how this goes, though Im sure Im going to get broadsided.

Im trying to go easy on the tone and I almost feel a little bit bad because I could hear the "My God how did we get stuck with a Cadillac" sound of exaspiration in this apparently new service manager's voice.

Should I feel bad for them or cut them some slack since it's a Caddy?

I wouldn't feel bad in the least ... hell, my city (pop. 32,000) doesn't even have a Cadillac dealership, so I've taken my cars
into the Chev dealer for everything from steering shafts to failed ignition cylinders.
What I have found is a certain level of arrogance that I don't find with the small specialty garages. The dealer's service writer
is always right, and discounts my suggestions. I only use them when I absolutely must.

Others more knowledgeable will chime in, but my understanding is every GM dealer has full access to all repair software instructions.
You didn't ask them to rebuild a 4.6L motor .... just a simple coolant leak that half the members here could've fixed in their own garages.
I had a small Lexus specialist change out my t-belt/waterpump recently.
He drove the car before the service, and after the work was done, drove it for at least another 20 minutes, then put it on the
hoist to check his work for leaks and fluid levels. He also showed me the old parts, and called me in during the repair to show me
a $20 coolant tube that he replaced as a precaution, because it showed wear and the labour hours are extensive to get back there.

I think you're at the mercy of the integrity or general apathy of that mechanic's particular work ethic and commitment to his craft.
No, I wouldn't feel bad for Mr. Goodwrench's lack of ability to diagnose and fix a leak on their flagship model.
Why would anyone guess at the location of the WP when they have full access to all diagrams?
They are using your money to fund their lack of interest in finding the problem.

I have to agree with ted tcb
while they're not a caddy dealer, they are a GM dealer, and this kind of screw up is a BIGGIE
i wouldn't take it all out on your service writer, since he was probably being sold up the river by his tech, who wanted that water pump gravy job
however, he did have a hand to play in all of it, so don't go too easy

hope they set you straight

Should I feel bad for them or cut them some slack since it's a Caddy?

If it was a Midas you'd be raising hell.

Should I feel bad for them or cut them some slack since it's a Caddy?

The sign outside says "GM Service," not "Chevrolet Service." If they were willing to take your money and Easter egg the problem they should be willing to make good on it. And sooner or later the tech that changed your water pump had to have figured out it wasn't on the right side of the engine. You'd hope some bells would have gone off somewhere. Just to let it out the door without checking their work was bad enough.

Thanks Chubby,

Well, of course I was right from the beginning, the side tank on the radiator is shot.

I agreed to let bygons be bygons and they found me a radiator for 199.00, of which I split the cost with them 50/50 and of course I wont be paying for the labor or the 65 miles they towed the car back to their place.

They said that in their defense, the WP bearing was shot and it WAS leaking. I told them thats all well and good but I came in with a MAJOR leak not a tiny one caused by a waterpump and I wasnt going to eat the cost of the new part and labor completely.

So a new WP, Thermostat and Radiator basically set me back 485.00. Im seriously thinking about relisting the car for a little more than what I sold it for this last time seeing as how I was breaking even BEFORE I paid for these parts.

what happened to the deal you already had with the man?

He agreed that I could relist it and see what happens. If it doesnt sell I will let him have it, and if not I will refund his deposit basically.

your not the only one now in hot water
apparently my water pump x-over gasket has failed
and GMPP caught on to how my dealer was doctering up repair orders for me so im stuck with it
they want about 550 to fix it, time for me to start looking over the forum to see whats involved and if i can do it

Damn, well you're pretty mechanical, Im sure you can do it.

Autoway Financial also approved my differential repair/replacement on my Navigator but denied my A/C thermo-switch claim :( They said they couldnt feel anything wrong with the air when they drove it.

yuh
ive searched and so far no one has actually DONE one yet on a 2000+ N*
So i started a new thread with as much as i know and hopefully one of our mechs will chime in

GMPP Jason.....nice choice. I would have bought GMPP if I bought a GM car.

lol
you missed the convo Chad lol
the orginal ower bought the GMPP
i was never offered to transfer it so i couldnt use it
however Baierl found it and have been doctoring my repair orders and filing under it.
GMPP found out though so now im stuck having to pay or do my own repairs