: GM now offers Premium Remanufactured 4.6L Northstar



AJxtcman
11-06-07, 03:21 PM
DESCRIPTION:
Effective November 9, GM Parts will provide a remanufactured 4.6L Northstar Premium V8 Engine (RPO-L37/LD8). This engine will provide an viable alternative to repowering your customer's late-model Cadillacs. Available on Powertrain Wholesale Truckload Program.


EFFECTIVE DATE:
Available November 9, 2007


ORDER INPUT:
Order via RAPID.


GENERAL INFORMATION:
Each reman Northstar engine includes all of these brand new components:
Cylinder Block
Crankshaft
Pistons and Piston Rings
Crankshaft Bearings
Camshafts
Oil Pump Assembly
Intake and Exhaust Valves
Timing Chain
All Gaskets and Seals

Also, for customers desiring to rebuild their own Northstar engines, GM Parts offers two short block assemblies.
These short block assemblies include all new:
cylinder block castings
pistons, connecting rods
crankshaft and bearings

Applications:
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/forum/0.gif

Submariner409
11-06-07, 03:38 PM
:bouncy:AJ, You have just made some '90's owners into Happy Campers. Betcha this Forum had a little something to do with the decision.

:mad:Now, where can I get a GM long block for '02 STS L37 ???

Lord Cadillac
11-06-07, 04:45 PM
How much will these engines cost? Any idea?

codewize
11-06-07, 08:27 PM
Yeah that's going to be a score for a lot of people.

Gearheaad43
11-06-07, 08:33 PM
Ummm Do they include timeserts? Higher tension oil rings? better seals?


Are these avail thru GM Parts Direct?

How much do they run AJ?

AJxtcman
11-06-07, 08:58 PM
Timesert suck!
Higher tension rings suck!!
They will be getting prices soon.

Gearheaad43
11-06-07, 09:54 PM
Well, ok Timeserts sucks.. I meant Bigserts.... :-P

Why does higher tension rings suck? They serve to lower oil consumption which we all know the Northstars are famous for.....

The only negative I can think of with higher tension rings are increased wear on the cylinder liners... I'd rather have a little wear in 300,000 miles than having to constantly wonder how much oil my N* is drinking up........

codewize
11-06-07, 10:19 PM
I believe the oil consumption is there for a reason.

And why do Timeserts suck?

Ranger
11-06-07, 10:26 PM
I'd rather have the oil consumption and less ware. I can add oil, can't add ring or cylinder ware. When that happens you're gonna use oil anyway. An added benefit to oil consumption is that you are occasionally fortifying the oil additives between oil changes.

creeker
11-06-07, 10:41 PM
I'd rather have the oil consumption and less ware. I can add oil, can't add ring or cylinder ware. When that happens you're gonna use oil anyway. An added benefit to oil consumption is that you are occasionally fortifying the oil additives between oil changes.

Is there a "low oil" warning feature on the N* engine,or should you check dip stick from time to time?

Ranger
11-06-07, 10:46 PM
Yes, there is a level sensor and you will get a CHECK OIL LEVEL message when it is 2 qts low, just about the time it drops off the end of the dipstick. It will warn you before it lets you hurt it.

creeker
11-06-07, 11:00 PM
Yes, there is a level sensor and you will get a CHECK OIL LEVEL message when it is 2 qts low, just about the time it drops off the end of the dipstick. It will warn you before it lets you hurt it.

Thank you again.

AJxtcman
11-07-07, 07:02 AM
Well, ok Timeserts sucks.. I meant Bigserts.... :-P

Why does higher tension rings suck? They serve to lower oil consumption which we all know the Northstars are famous for.....

The only negative I can think of with higher tension rings are increased wear on the cylinder liners... I'd rather have a little wear in 300,000 miles than having to constantly wonder how much oil my N* is drinking up........

I completed an online ring course a while back. I think they said 80% of the engines drag comes from rings. The new style rings work without problems in most engines.
Example:
4 cylinder car get on the freeway uses 70%+ throttle.

6 cylinder car or van will see less, maybe 50%+.

Now the Northstar. The older people don't like the noise, the slightly younger group don't have the time and are worried about abuse (you could not do this to a car in the 80's). The next group below that in my opinion likes to do it, but the time thing again.

You must force Combustion chamber pressure behind the ring to force them out against the cylinder wall. This also forces carbon bind the rings. Good clean oil and WOT will cut down on oil consumption.


I believe the oil consumption is there for a reason.

And why do Timeserts suck?

TimeSerts are not part of the block they just make the bolt bigger!:banghead:
They is truly what they do. So if you have a NEW casting why would you want to ruin it with TimeSerts. TimeSerts are a Bandaids.


I'd rather have the oil consumption and less ware. I can add oil, can't add ring or cylinder ware. When that happens you're gonna use oil anyway. An added benefit to oil consumption is that you are occasionally fortifying the oil additives between oil changes.
:D I am with you on this.

Submariner409
11-07-07, 02:22 PM
Gearhead43, I believe GM will be using all new blocks due to the cast-in liners. Timeserts or equivalent wouldn't allow GM to issue much of a warranty.

Low-tension rings do not, by design, make a N* or any other engine an "oil burner", and N*'s aren't famous for oil burning. A few in here are, and the forum is concentrated, so it appears that the percentage is much higher than actual. (How many N* cars do you see on the highway, leaving a plume of oil smoke ???) The official GM stand on oil consumption is now 1 qt./2,000 miles, up from 1 qt./1,000 miles a year ago. There's a thread in here somewhere, recently, about just that.

(We use low tension compression rings and 3-piece oil control rings in our custom boat engines, and an Olds 455 generally turns 2,600 to 3,400 rpm all day, while a GM 454 turns up to 4,350 all day, both with negligible oil consumption.)

Playdrv4me
11-07-07, 04:26 PM
So am I to understand these new reman motors are supposed to be a better alternative to timeserting your current motor? And are they supposed to not suffer the same failure in the future?

And again, WHAT'S THE COST?

Submariner409
11-07-07, 05:29 PM
Well, you could always go online to gmpartsdirect or gmotors and ask. Try Lindsay Cadillac. If you bought a long block, what would you put it in ??? The Jeep ??? Heck, even if the long block was $3500 a non-mechanic would still have to have it installed. Not a cheap, easy fix.

Mark C
11-10-07, 11:49 AM
Don't know if this is the right place, but there is an ad on craigslist for some (9) N* fitted long blocks for sale for 3K. Probably a good deal for someone local (assuming its not a scam). Not my ad and I don't know anything about the person selling them. He doesn't say what year they are.

http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/pts/474057057.html

RippyPartsDept
11-10-07, 12:52 PM
How much will these engines cost? Any idea?

dealer cost is $4895 plus a $400 core deposit
(no msrp which is customary for parts like this)

OUCH, but pretty much in line with other gm engines

we mark up only a little, and there's other dealers who buy truckloads at a time and get discounts so they will be able to sell for cheaper

we sometimes buy from newsome (in sc) or nesmith (in ga) for stuff like that cuz they will sell for less than dealer cost and deliver next day as well

however... i could be wrong on all this as well

RippyPartsDept
11-10-07, 01:39 PM
also... the part number is in the system, but it isn't showing any stock available ... so apparently you can order them, but i'm not sure when they'll actually become available to ship... you'd expect it to be soon though

AJxtcman
11-10-07, 01:48 PM
also... the part number is in the system, but it isn't showing any stock available ... so apparently you can order them, but i'm not sure when they'll actually become available to ship... you'd expect it to be soon though

Can you list the price for all 4 part #?

RippyPartsDept
11-10-07, 01:59 PM
Long Blocks: (no stock available? ... yet)
89060476 $4895 + $400 Core (4895 is dealer cost!)
89060477 $4895 + $400 Core (4895 is dealer cost!)

Short Block: (stock is available!)
89060519 $4,071.43 list price (no core apparently)
89018105 $4,371.43 list price (also no core)

Gearheaad43
11-11-07, 08:25 AM
So one part number is VIN "Y" And the other is VIN "9"?

Which Part No. is which?

clarkz71
11-11-07, 08:50 AM
AJ already posted that info.


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/forum/0.gif

JN in CA
11-11-07, 04:26 PM
Does anyone know what the warranty is on these engines?

For that matter, what is the timeframe to get one?

AJxtcman
11-11-07, 08:28 PM
This is a reman engine statement. It looks to be the same across the board.
36-month/100,000-mile warranty, these engines are
the perfect solution for high-mileage, low-wear vehicles
needing a replacement engine.

bcs296
11-12-07, 12:49 AM
LOL, most cars that are in need of a new N* are not even worth $5k.

JN in CA
11-12-07, 02:27 AM
Sure, there are some cars that aren't worth replacing the engine. However, as he said, there are also some super high mileage, yet otherwise super clean, cars that are very cost effective to replace the engine instead of a new car.

My complaint is the price vs. the warranty. There are remanufacturers selling long block N* for at least $1000 less than this, also with a 3 year warranty. Paying extra just for OEM is always a tough sell. What is the point of paying extra for OEM instead of rebuilt if I am not going to get a better warranty?

AJxtcman
11-12-07, 07:34 AM
Example: You have a 99 STS. The head gaskets had been changed and timeserts installed at 50K. now you have 90K on your car and it is a certified car. You get a new short block.

Example: You have a 99 STS and your head gaskets fail at 75K. This could be out of warranty. Time serts won't hold 80+% of the time. They pull the heads to find that the cams are worn also. New Engine or you could install just the exhaust cams for a minimum cost of $2300 and all 4 cams for about $4600.
Cam and lifters -----$2300
Timeserts ----------$ 150
Headgaskets------- $ 175
oil manifold -------- $ 135
Rear Main seal ------ $ 50
Timing cover Gasket--$30
Water pump cover--- $40
W- Pump Cover GSK --$9
Thermostat Gasket ---$4
Cross Over Gaskets --$20
Cross Over Gaskets --$19
Flywheel Bolts --------$6
Sealer---------------$40
Cam Seal -----------$14
Oil Filter Adp Seals----$5
Plastic Plugs---------$30
Dex -Cool----------- $50
Oil ------------------$35
Oil Filter ------------ $5

total Parts----------$3120

Timesert Labors ----$ 500
Head Gasket Labor -$1500
Total Labor --------$2000

Grand total $5000 to $5500 :thehand:add another $2300 for the other 2 cams and lifters

After this the chances of Head gasket failure is very high.
If you have a Timersert pull free in a year or two. Most dealers will say they can not repair it after Timeserts have been installed. Now it is junk.

Submariner409
11-12-07, 11:28 AM
Again..........If GM is now offering certified reman engines, they would have to be using new blocks and maybe also bare heads. GM knows that the '90's series of N*'s had a significant headgasket failure rate, so they changed a few mechanicals, including head bolt size and lengths, in the post-'01 runs.

As AJ says, timeserts or some equivalents work, but they are a patch for a design flaw. I doubt that GM would make the same mistake twice....maybe.

Sometime in the next week or so one of our resident techs will answer the new block question.

AJ, do the new engines have roller cam followers or the older flat tappet type ???

I just went back to post #1.It states that the blocks are new. End of HG question.

dwight.j.carter
11-12-07, 05:23 PM
However what if you get the motor apart and it actually is a failed head gasket ? If that is the case you would not need to time cert correct ?
And what I mean by that is what if no bolts pulled through the gasket failed ?

TexasCadillac
11-13-07, 11:18 AM
Here is the email I got when I asked about the northstar engines..........New, or remanufactured engine, long block, I am sorry the part number you requested has been discontinued and is no longer available from GM. You will have to find an aftermarket source for this part.

Here are your part numbers you requested.

89018105 service partial engine, requires to order front engine cover 12576050, and front crankshaft seal 1647311.

You can go to http://www.gmpartsdirect.com on our home page you will have to enter your part number into the SEARCH space provided on our homepage. You will then have to add this number to your shopping cart and click check out to see total charges with shipping and handling delivered to your door.

If you have a question regarding this email please include all contents of this email, including the original email you sent, so we can keep track of the conversation. Please keep in mind gmpartsdirect.com cannot be held responsible for incorrect part numbers. Please feel free to validate the accuracy with your local dealer. As a note, special order and electrical parts are non-returnable so please verify your part numbers are correct.

Email response hours are from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm est, Mon to Fri. Orders and emails after 3 pm Friday est. will not be processed until Monday.

Thank you for choosing www.GmPartsDirect.com
When replying to emails please include all previous email correspondences.

AJxtcman
11-13-07, 01:28 PM
DESCRIPTION:
Effective November 9, GM Parts will provide a remanufactured 4.6L Northstar Premium V8 Engine (RPO-L37/LD8). This engine will provide an viable alternative to repowering your customer's late-model Cadillacs. Available on Powertrain Wholesale Truckload Program.


EFFECTIVE DATE:
Available November 9, 2007


ORDER INPUT:
Order via RAPID.


GENERAL INFORMATION:
Each reman Northstar engine includes all of these brand new components:
Cylinder Block
Crankshaft
Pistons and Piston Rings
Crankshaft Bearings
Camshafts
Oil Pump Assembly
Intake and Exhaust Valves
Timing Chain
All Gaskets and Seals

Also, for customers desiring to rebuild their own Northstar engines, GM Parts offers two short block assemblies.
These short block assemblies include all new:
cylinder block castings
pistons, connecting rods
crankshaft and bearings

Applications:
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/forum/0.gif


Here is the email I got when I asked about the northstar engines..........New, or remanufactured engine, long block, I am sorry the part number you requested has been discontinued and is no longer available from GM. You will have to find an aftermarket source for this part.

Here are your part numbers you requested.

89018105 service partial engine, requires to order front engine cover 12576050, and front crankshaft seal 1647311.

You can go to http://www.gmpartsdirect.com on our home page you will have to enter your part number into the SEARCH space provided on our homepage. You will then have to add this number to your shopping cart and click check out to see total charges with shipping and handling delivered to your door.

If you have a question regarding this email please include all contents of this email, including the original email you sent, so we can keep track of the conversation. Please keep in mind gmpartsdirect.com cannot be held responsible for incorrect part numbers. Please feel free to validate the accuracy with your local dealer. As a note, special order and electrical parts are non-returnable so please verify your part numbers are correct.

Email response hours are from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm est, Mon to Fri. Orders and emails after 3 pm Friday est. will not be processed until Monday.

Thank you for choosing www.GmPartsDirect.com
When replying to emails please include all previous email correspondences.

As you can see the two complete engine that are now avalible have only been avalible for 4 days!:rant2:

It may take another month for a dealership to get the cost for the two reman engine's.

We get part all the time with no pricing. It make closing the RO difficult.

RippyPartsDept
11-13-07, 03:18 PM
Long Blocks: (no stock available? ... yet)
89060476 $4895 + $400 Core (4895 is dealer cost!)
89060477 $4895 + $400 Core (4895 is dealer cost!)

Short Block: (stock is available!)
89060519 $4,071.43 list price (no core apparently)
89018105 $4,371.43 list price (also no core)

and to clarify, as I said earlier (above in bold now)
there's no stock available (yet)
this number is new (as AJ said it will take some time for it to become available for purchase)

keep your ears to the ground and your eyes peeled
the northstars are coming!

dwight.j.carter
11-13-07, 05:12 PM
So basically all they did is lowered the cost of the motor new ?

blb
11-13-07, 08:03 PM
If it's not Timeserted, who would want it? You're just buying the same chance of failure that the factory motors are known for. If it is Timeserted, then why isn't GM doing this from the factory? If they did, there would be a lot less need for the remanufactured 4.6's.

blb
11-13-07, 08:16 PM
GM knows that the '90's series of N*'s had a significant headgasket failure rate, so they changed a few mechanicals, including head bolt size and lengths, in the post-'01 runs.





Wow, this board has come a long way over the years. If someone said that a few years ago, it would have been followed by eight pages of people exclaiming that the Northstar was the best, most powerful, most reliable engine ever built and that they didn't believe that Northstars had an abnormally high rate of headgasket failures. And then BB would chime in that since he was a GM design engineer on the engine, there couldn't possibly any flaws in the design or materials. Glad to see the progress and the facing of facts.

Submariner409
11-13-07, 09:11 PM
blb...............You missed the keyword in the ^^ posts : NEW blocks..... i.e. the new bolt thread and size specs, as well as new casting QC specs, so no need for a timesert patch job. Timeserts, like the original Helicoil, are a patch....they're advertised to fix damaged threads, not as a new assembly product.

N* is not, by a long shot, the only aluminum block/pan unit with cast-in sleeves on the market. However, the N* has a small but persistent reputation for HG problems due to bolt/casting failure. The actual percentage of failures due to bolt pulling may well be insignificant in the big assembly line picture.

Daresay there is an equal or maybe slightly larger group of N* gasket failure owners who have no idea Cadillac Forums even exists, and are content with dealer advice and fixes.

We all know there are people -car owners -Cadillac owners- who don't know where the ON/OFF button on a computer is. So, we're the minority. Face it.

AJxtcman
11-14-07, 07:26 AM
If it's not Timeserted, who would want it? You're just buying the same chance of failure that the factory motors are known for. If it is Timeserted, then why isn't GM doing this from the factory? If they did, there would be a lot less need for the remanufactured 4.6's.

:banghead: I am sure you have not read this before so I will say it again.
:mad2:The TimeSerts used on the Head bolts just make the bolt bigger. It is not part of the block.:mad2: I am not sure how else to explain them. :cookoo:
The TimeSerts used on the head bolts are not the same type that are used in the rest of the applications. I am not sure what they made the 99 and prior block out of, but they changed it for the 00+. If you run the TimeSert drill down the hole and all you get out is powder or non shiny material a TimeSert will never hold!:banghead:

GM knows what the problem is. That is why the re-man engine comes with a NEW BLOCK!:horse:

JN in CA
11-14-07, 02:23 PM
So basically all they did is lowered the cost of the motor new ?

I don't work at a dealership, but I don't think that's right. (I.e.- correct me if I'm wrong.) These are long blocks, not crate engines. I think with GM long blocks and crate engines are not the same thing.

Besides, I think these are the new 2007 block castings, but with the 1996-1999 heads. I don't think that was previously available.

Still a lot more money than buying a N* long block from AGAP.

JN in CA
11-14-07, 02:28 PM
If someone said that a few years ago, it would have been followed by eight pages of people exclaiming that the Northstar was the best, most powerful, most reliable engine ever built and that they didn't believe that Northstars had an abnormally high rate of headgasket failures. And then BB would chime in that since he was a GM design engineer on the engine, there couldn't possibly any flaws in the design or materials. Glad to see the progress and the facing of facts.

Yup. the invincibility of the N* has been overtaken by 14 of real world usage.

Still, even biased, BB provided a huge service. Cadillac knows a lot of it's dealers are crooks. BB was the only one from GM with the nerve to show up here and listen to people, and tell them their dealer was giving them a snow job.

(I've moved on to my 3rd dealer.)

JN in CA
11-14-07, 02:37 PM
If you run the TimeSert drill down the hole and all you get out is powder or non shiny material a TimeSert will never hold!:banghead:

GM knows what the problem is. That is why the re-man engine comes with a NEW BLOCK

Hmmm, you mean the NEW castings, or all N*'s. Because in all the years I've come here, I've never once seen someone say their Timeserts failed.

JimD
11-14-07, 03:12 PM
....The TimeSerts used on the Head bolts just make the bolt bigger.....

Help me understand what you mean by that statement.

My understanding of the process is that the block bolt hole is drilled and tapped to match the diameter and thread pitch of the OD of the Timesert.

And the internal threads of the Timesert are the same thread/pitch as the OEM headbolt.

What part of the process do I have wrong?

Submariner409
11-14-07, 05:11 PM
I think AJ is saying that, unlike the OEM bolt threads in the aluminum block, the damaged bolt hole is drilled out and tapped for an insert which is, in fact, another bolt with a threaded hole in it.Kind of a poor analogy, but you are making the original hole bigger.

It's a patch: Now you have 2 sets of threads to worry about.

Timeserts are a step above the original Helicoil thread replacements, but neither is as good as the original threaded hole.

AJxtcman
11-14-07, 07:46 PM
I don't work at a dealership, but I don't think that's right. (I.e.- correct me if I'm wrong.) These are long blocks, not crate engines. I think with GM long blocks and crate engines are not the same thing.

Besides, I think these are the new 2007 block castings, but with the 1996-1999 heads. I don't think that was previously available.

Still a lot more money than buying a N* long block from AGAP.
They are not an 07 block.
First Gen 93 to 99
Second Gen 00 to 03 crank sensors relocated and the deck surface pattern is different. New material used in the block casting.
Third Gen 03 to 05 Same as second, but has different head bolts. 11X2.0mm
Forth Gen 06 to 08 single crank sensor in the valley by the starter
all four Gens will not interchange


Hmmm, you mean the NEW castings, or all N*'s. Because in all the years I've come here, I've never once seen someone say their Timeserts failed.
We see them fail all the time in 99 and prior blocks.
If you dill the hole out and you get powder instead of shiny metal the TimeSert will not hold.


Help me understand what you mean by that statement.

My understanding of the process is that the block bolt hole is drilled and tapped to match the diameter and thread pitch of the OD of the Timesert.

And the internal threads of the Timesert are the same thread/pitch as the OEM headbolt.

What part of the process do I have wrong?

You Drill out the metal and it is powder :rant2:
Ok you drill out the metal in the block and we will say it is good. If the metal was good why did you drill it out?:rant2:
Ok you remove a bolt and a few threads come out with it. You inspect the hole and find no signs of pitting. You drill it out and the metal looks ok. you install the TimeSert. This is not locked into the block BTW. You put locktite on the TimeSert. Wait LockTite eats aluminum. IT IS A FACT! The 99 and Prior block just have crappy aluminum. It is a fact and they fixed it in 00 when the redeigned it. It is part of EVOLUTION!

NycSTS
11-20-07, 01:16 PM
Mucho interesting

greggm333
02-21-08, 06:33 PM
Just wanted to give everyone here a heads up on AGAP engines in texas. I bought a Northstar from them October of 2007, about 4 months ago. Here's what I've dealt with.

1) The first engine they shipped was damaged in shipping since they do not ship their engines in a crate. Had to call multiple times to get them to come pick the engine up. 2 -3 weeks later I finally had another engine that was not damaged, at least not externally....

2) After the engine was put in, the first thing that I noticed was blue smoke, and allot of it from the exhaust. In the first 500 miles I added 4 quarts of oil. There were no oil leaks from the engine.

3) I called and described the problem(not to hard to figure out it's rings, cylinder bore or valve guides), I was told to put diesel engine oil in it and see if that 'fixes' the problem. At this point, I knew I was in the process of getting screwed. I made sure that they knew that I wasn't an idiot and that using a heavier weight oil only covers up the problem. I guess they were hoping that if I didn't see smoke and they could get the oil consumption within an 'acceptable' range, they would be done with me. They also tried to tell me that this is normal until the rings seat and to put 1000 miles on it and see if the problem still exists.

I now have 2500 miles on the engine, using 10w30 and it uses a quart every 500-600 miles and still smokes.

I do want to add at this point that the engine shop that I had put the engine in, who are a good group of guys, said that it's obvious that the engine has internal problems. I bought the engine from AGAP directly and paid them to put the engine in for me.

4) After waiting until I had 1k miles on it they wanted me to put another 1,000 on it. Now they want me to have a leak down test done on it so before they will consider sending me a new engine. Now I can't get them to return a phone call or e-mail and they will not answer the phone. The guy who I've been dealing with is Bernie. I've probably talked to him 50-60 times by now. He has a new excuse each time on why he hasn't called me back when he said that he would.

Right now, I'm being told that a guy named David needs to call the engine shop that will be doing the test before I can take it up there and have it done. This is what I was told over a week ago. He has never called them.

Here's a copy of the last e-mail I received regarding this situation:

"Gregg
We have been extremely busy, and I cannot be waiting around for David to do his part when I need to be doing other things. and neither can I push him around.
This situation really sets me back because it is very time consuming and I have to spend more time selling than in other things, I am sure if you are in sales , you can understand that.
You have made your dissatisfaction with the engine abundantly clear, believe me you have, but as I told you before, the plant needs to document to their satisfaction that the engine has a problem and needs to be replaced, and so far they have nothing other than your word and that is not enough.
The position of the plant towards someone who wants to get an engine replaced without proper documentation, is as stated in the warranty; the engine may be removed and shipped to our plant at the customer's expense, and upon inspection the plant will repair or replace the engine as necessary. The buyer may submit in writing a claim to AGAP for its review and sole determination.
If we do it by the book, this is the way it has to be done and anything beyond that, is just us trying to be nice to you. And this is the reason why, I cannot push anybody around to bow to what you want done. If I do, they'll say, "let him ship it in" and that's it.
Be prudent.
BM"


I'm posting this so that people know what kind of business AGAP runs and to stay away from them.

Oh, one more thing, it took them over a month to pick up my core after repeated promises that they were going to "take care of it" and I didn't get my core deposit back until this month. If I would not have called them, I would have never received the refund.

If you get a good engine from them and don't have to make a claim on the warranty, you might be ok. I wish I would have never bought from them. I did because their price was lower than others. Remember, you get what you pay for. In hindsight, I would have gladly paid another 1k to not have to deal with this.

Gregg

RippyPartsDept
02-22-08, 05:25 PM
yeah, a used N* with fairly low miles can be found for $500-$1000 usually (at least around here)
you'd probably have been better off with a used engine even if you had to do a re-build

on a side note, one of our techs here got a 95 deville from the owners here because they were going to have it towed away after reposessing it from a customer who never paid their diagnostic charge and never came to get their car (i think it was over a year)

it needs pistons and rings and head gaskets (nothing too big if you can work on it yourself and only pay for parts)

he's a bit tight for cash so he doesn't have the pistons yet, but once he gets it running it will be an almost mint condition 95 deville that he's put less than $1000 into

(thought i'd share a positive story to balance out your bad experience gregg)
take care and i hope it works out with AGAP for you

~chris

chubbyranger
02-23-08, 06:48 PM
Long Blocks: (no stock available? ... yet)
89060476 $4895 + $400 Core (4895 is dealer cost!)
89060477 $4895 + $400 Core (4895 is dealer cost!)

Short Block: (stock is available!)
89060519 $4,071.43 list price (no core apparently)
89018105 $4,371.43 list price (also no core)

I put the 2 short block p/n into GmPartsDirect and got list prices same as above but sale prices of $2964 and $3182! :thumbsup:

Tigman
08-16-08, 07:27 AM
What about the Norms NS300L insert to fix the block? Looks like a better design than the time-sert.

Mark

RippyPartsDept
08-19-08, 04:56 PM
What about the Norms NS300L insert to fix the block? Looks like a better design than the time-sert.

Mark

Never heard of the Norms before. We've been using time-sert since it was an approved GM repair through the SPX people, and now that SPX doesn't sell it anymore we go through time-sert.

... and we've never had one come back (that I know of) with the same problem, and I'm pretty sure it has more to do with the service procedure than the parts used, so Norms could be just as good... got a link?

mtgldr
09-21-08, 10:32 PM
Long Blocks: (no stock available? ... yet)
89060476 $4895 + $400 Core (4895 is dealer cost!)
89060477 $4895 + $400 Core (4895 is dealer cost!)

Short Block: (stock is available!)
89060519 $4,071.43 list price (no core apparently)
89018105 $4,371.43 list price (also no core)


Long Blocks:
89060476 $5643 + $400 Core
89060477 $5643 + $400 Core

Short Block:
89060519 $3190 (no core)
89018105 $3425 (no core)

+ $575 Shipping

Per GM Parts Direct Site 9/21/08

Long block's just a tad more than a new car......

RippyPartsDept
09-22-08, 05:15 PM
Yeah, that's kind of expensive... we haven't sold one yet, but continue to sell the head jobs with time-serts. No come-backs!

I think it has more to do with the technician and his/her ( ;) ) system/method. Others shops in town and out of town have tried to do this job, and rarely get it right because they either don't have the know-how and/or the tools to get the job done correctly so it won't come back.

mtgldr
09-22-08, 05:34 PM
Yeah, that's kind of expensive... we haven't sold one yet, but continue to sell the head jobs with time-serts. No come-backs!

I think it has more to do with the technician and his/her ( ;) ) system/method. Others shops in town and out of town have tried to do this job, and rarely get it right because they either don't have the know-how and/or the tools to get the job done correctly so it won't come back.

A dealer in NE GA gets $5,500 for HG's, that's just HG's.

It's too bad GM doesn't give us a trade-in for our motors :), $2K trade in for my old N* would make buying the new long block viable.

Oh well, that's why Co's reman them.

RippyPartsDept
09-23-08, 09:28 AM
We don't charge nearly that much. Usually around $2,800 if nothing else major is needed.

mtgldr
09-23-08, 09:36 AM
We don't charge nearly that much. Usually around $2,800 if nothing else major is needed.

Well if it turns out I need HG's looks like I'll be going to NC. They said 35 hours labor plus @ $1,900 in parts. They may not want to do them so they price it so high, Thanks.

ryannel2003
09-23-08, 09:51 AM
Before I bought my 2000 STS, the headgaskets were done at Trent Cadillac in New Bern, NC and I believe the cost came out to $3000 along with repairing a few odds and ends. I've been down to Wilmington and looked at Rippy's facilities, and they are extremely impressive.

Villanous
09-23-08, 11:39 AM
Never heard of the Norms before. We've been using time-sert since it was an approved GM repair through the SPX people, and now that SPX doesn't sell it anymore we go through time-sert.

... and we've never had one come back (that I know of) with the same problem, and I'm pretty sure it has more to do with the service procedure than the parts used, so Norms could be just as good... got a link?


Havent found an actual webpage but if you check ebay and search for NS300L you will come up with the item description, little Q&A FAQ about them and the creator. I am sure you could contact the guy directly and go from there.

tateos
09-23-08, 04:53 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NORTHSTAR-ENGINE-NS300L-HEAD-BOLT-THREAD-INSERT-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c39Q3a1 Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2e c0Q2em14QQhashZitem150296660450QQitemZ150296660450

RippyPartsDept
09-24-08, 09:24 AM
Thanks tateos & Villanous I actually found them back in august with a quick bit of googling.

This is who we use: http://www.timesert.com/html/gm.html
Back when GM was sanctioning the repair this tool kit and replacement inserts and dowel pins could have been obtained from SPX (the gm special tool source), but now we have to buy direct.

ryannel2003, I appreciate the kind appraisal of our facilities. Out of curiosity do you remember what about us made that impression on you?

ryannel2003
09-24-08, 03:22 PM
Cleanliness. You dealership was so extremely clean and neat; the dealership was polite and friendly. My mom wanted an Escalade ESV and we looked at one, but they are extremely expensive so we settled on a Denali XL instead.

RippyPartsDept
09-25-08, 09:24 AM
Cool, if you're ever around again, come stop by the parts department and say hello.

patterson
06-13-09, 06:45 PM
I would welcome any opinions on the following:

I have a 1995 Eldorado in good condition with 142K miles and a blown HG. Should I have a machine shop drill and tap the block, dust the heads etc. for half the cost of a crate motor? Or, do I have too many miles and other major components may start to fail soon turning this car into a money pit?

When it's not overheating this car is great fun. It's fast, it's beautiful, and it's luxurious. But with my blown HG, I can only drive for about 30 mins before she starts to overheat. I am keeping the car but I don't know what to do next.

Ranger
06-13-09, 09:09 PM
Don't just tap the block. You have to insert it with Timeserts http://www.timesert.com, Norms inserts (I think he is on Ebay) or best option Jake's stud kit http://www.northstarperformance.com

83CADMAN
06-22-09, 08:29 PM
Ya whats the cost???
Seams to me if you have to go to the trouble of droping the cradle and removing the engine just to fix something that may not last. A new, better and warranted engine!!! Thats just a no brainer.

tateos
06-23-09, 02:13 PM
I would welcome any opinions on the following:

I have a 1995 Eldorado in good condition with 142K miles and a blown HG. Should I have a machine shop drill and tap the block, dust the heads etc. for half the cost of a crate motor? Or, do I have too many miles and other major components may start to fail soon turning this car into a money pit?

When it's not overheating this car is great fun. It's fast, it's beautiful, and it's luxurious. But with my blown HG, I can only drive for about 30 mins before she starts to overheat. I am keeping the car but I don't know what to do next.

Really depends on how much you like the car, the overall condition of the rest of the car, and how much longer you want to keep driving it. You definitely could repair the engine and then a short time later have problems, maybe expensive problems, with the AC, suspension, trans, or electrical system. I don't think this a black or white decision, or a financial decison - it is really a personal decision, like all car related decisions.