: Excessive F1 EMT Tire Wear - Reference Thread



Jpjr
11-03-07, 02:23 PM
I'm going to summarize some valuable findings on tire wear from a number of threads so that someone else with similar issues will have all the information they need.

-The stock Goodyear run-flat F1 EMT's that come with our car suck. They don't grip particularly well (IMO), they cost $471.99 each retail ($400 online), and they wear excessively bad. Mine were completely bald after 7000 miles. I daily drive the car, never raced.

-If you lease a V (confirmed by GMAC), you need to return the car with the exact same tires and plenty of tread. This means you are guaranteed to replace these tires at least once under a 2 yr. lease, and probably twice under a 3 yr. lease unless you are comfortable driving bald tires.

-Total replacement costs if you do not know anyone and get no breaks at the tire shop would be approxamately $2500 if you include alignment. That is $2k tires, balancing, disposal, labor, tax, and alignment.

-The agressive factory alignment kills these tires. Outer shoulders on my fronts were gone very quickly.

-Paying for a tow is much cheaper than using run-flats. I am extremely unhappy with the tires and would never use them again had this not been a lease.

-Cadillac issed a letter (not TSB) regarding tire wear on the V's. It was basically a disclaimer that the car was made for performance and you can expect the tires to last half as long as conventional tires, or less. The tone of the letter was total BS, you could just tell it was just one less thing they wanted to warranty. (Chitty post-sale dealer service is something the American companies still excel at and is a big reason why people without brand loyalty go German or Japanese).

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So.....

-I first filed a complaint with Cadillac, but was 99% certain that they weren't going to do anything for me except offer me a $75 oil change. Based on advice I received on this forum, I instead took the car to a certified Goodyear dealer before taking it to Cadillac.

-The Goodyear dealer put up some natural skepticism, but did call Goodyear after my prodding and got back to me the next day, offerring to replace 2 of the tires at an 80% discount.

-I did not rock the boat. That is $1000 worth of tires. I took the offer and ended up paying $1430 out the door for new tires and alignment. I got a less agressive alignment that is better suited for daily driving since there was so much shoulder wear due to the factory toe.

-I made a deal with the Goodyear dealer to come in ever 3000 miles to have the wheels rotated and tires inspected. This way, the dealer can analyze the rubber and file a claim right away if the tires are wearing excessively. I expect this to pay off in spades a year from now...

So that's my story. Given the circumstances I think it was the best outcome possible and would advise something similar to anyone else having the same problem.

Some of you may find pleasure in a statement like "This is a performance car, those are performance tires, you got what you deserve." In response to that, I would say I've been driving perofrmance cars with performance tires for years and have never had tires go at 7k, except when a) tracking the car, or b) running $200 drag radials in the back. These tires are wearing at a cost of 35 cents or so a mile all-in, which is completely ridiculous. Give me a set of PS2's and a can of fix-a-flat foam (which is standard for the M5) and I will be fine.

Thanks

Robby2006
11-03-07, 04:30 PM
I got 26k out of my tires. (Hard Driving, stock alignment and no burnouts and rotate at 5k)


Soft tire + Heavy Car = low wear milage

onebadcad
11-03-07, 08:56 PM
7,000 miles is 2K more than I got from my stock runcraps, I agree with you that 'they are weaker than Circus Lemonade'...

CIWS
11-04-07, 08:42 AM
"Easy" Fix -

#1. Pull the F1 run flats off the car after you get it and stick a set of whatever you want on the car to drive it. Then put them back on before you turn in the car

or

#2. Buy and extra set of wheels and tires and swap them out occasionally with the F1s. The GM accessory wheels and a set of tires would run about the cost of 1 set of F1 run flats from the dealership.

or

#3. Have the dealership put RSA run flats on the car vs the F1s. They last much longer and are not as expensive to replace.


The Saga of the F1 Supercar EMTs is well documented in this forum, and others for that matter. I knew before I purchased the car what the deal was with them because I did a little reading beforehand. I learned from a previous car how tires can be a "hidden" cost on the car, so it became one of the first things I check on when considering another vehicle. What size does the car take and how much will they cost me. If the only thing a purchaser of a new car considers is the monthly car payment, that's asking for a nasty suprise in possible maintenance and upkeep costs. Especially on a performance vehicle.

RobWilson
11-04-07, 02:52 PM
If the tires only lasted 7,000 miles, then I would say there is a problem. That being said, I agree that F1 EMTs suck. I bought my '03 Corvette new and ditched the F1 EMTs after 5k miles. They still had plenty of miles left on them, but I hated how they rode and performed. I replaced them with BFG gForce KDW in stock sizes and loved them.

My V already had new Michelin All-Season (non runflats) tires when I bought it. I've put 1100 miles on the car since I bought it and the jury is still out on the tires I have. I have an extra set of stock rims and may put winter tires on the extra rims and put some Michelin PS2's on, in place of the all-seasons.

Rob Wilson
'04 Black Raven CTS-V
'03 Spiral Gray Metallic Corvette

Jpjr
11-04-07, 03:25 PM
"Easy" Fix -

#1. Pull the F1 run flats off the car after you get it and stick a set of whatever you want on the car to drive it. Then put them back on before you turn in the car

or

#2. Buy and extra set of wheels and tires and swap them out occasionally with the F1s. The GM accessory wheels and a set of tires would run about the cost of 1 set of F1 run flats from the dealership.

or

#3. Have the dealership put RSA run flats on the car vs the F1s. They last much longer and are not as expensive to replace.


The Saga of the F1 Supercar EMTs is well documented in this forum, and others for that matter. I knew before I purchased the car what the deal was with them because I did a little reading beforehand. I learned from a previous car how tires can be a "hidden" cost on the car, so it became one of the first things I check on when considering another vehicle. What size does the car take and how much will they cost me. If the only thing a purchaser of a new car considers is the monthly car payment, that's asking for a nasty suprise in possible maintenance and upkeep costs. Especially on a performance vehicle.



While you make good general points, lets keep things in perspective for readers. Lets make sure everyone understands that 7000 miles on $500 tires is simply unacceptable no matter what amount of up-front research. This is #1 a warranty issue and not a buyer-beware issue. Your points may be more valid for general performance wear.

There is a market out there for $50k+ performance cars, and the market does not require performance tires every year. My old roomate's 2006 M5 is going on 2 years with stock factory tires. If Cadillac requires a premium on cost-to-own, they are simply not going to compete. Striking a bulk deal with Goodyear to use run-flat tires not fit for every-day use is unfortunately a quality issue, end of day.

Art138
11-04-07, 05:43 PM
Our Cadillac dealer replaced all of my F1s for Free; I had six thousand miles on the car at the time. I believe it depends on the dealer and how much they want your service. They did look at the engine compartment to see if I had modded it; I took off the cold air (K&Ns) and put them back after they replaced the tires......

CIWS
11-04-07, 06:26 PM
While you make good general points, lets keep things in perspective for readers. Lets make sure everyone understands that 7000 miles on $500 tires is simply unacceptable no matter what amount of up-front research. This is #1 a warranty issue and not a buyer-beware issue. Your points may be more valid for general performance wear.

Striking a bulk deal with Goodyear to use run-flat tires not fit for every-day use is unfortunately a quality issue, end of day.

There are some folks who like and continue to run the F1 Supercars on their Vs. (not me) Wear for owners has varied, and some claim to have seen 20K on them, the average seems to be about 10-12. Their high price suffers because they are an EMT performance tire. If you want to see something even scarier go look up the GS-D3 EMT. I had Goodyear swap mine when they had about 4.5K on them for RSAs. They lasted 27K before I swapped them in July and they still had a few thousand miles of tread left before the wear bars. Some owner's cars are garage queens and only see the road a few months or a few thousand miles a year and the wear factor isn't as big a deal for them. Mine is a daily driver and has seen about 18-20K a year. My main reason for ditching the F1s was their poor performance in water / standing water at highway speed.

I have a friend with an RX-8 that has ran three different sticky tire brands and cannot get more than 6K out of them before needing to be replaced. The F1 EMT is not the only quick wear tire out there being fitted that way by the factory. Our best ammo is the exchange of information about what works and what lasts. Sometimes the two go together and sometimes they do not. He is about to buy tire set #4, but this time he's probably going to go with a tire rated for a lot higher wear and deal with less grip for his daily driver.

Up-front research can save anyone from having to deal with the issue if they understand to either tell the dealer to swap the tires for the sale or know what they'll be dealing with if they accept them on the car.

JimmyH
11-05-07, 01:14 PM
I have 11k on my stock F1s. The fronts have alot of tread left, the backs are not yet at the indicators. I am guessing about 30-40% left, but that is just a guess. And I do not baby the car. Nor do I beat on it. I give it a good run a couple times every time I take it out. But most of the time I drive it sensibly.

And I disagree about their stickiness. They are extremely good tires on warm, dry pavement, which is what they were designed for. Cool pavement, or, God forbid, wet pavement, and yes, they are pretty bad.

I hate to say this, but if you were looking for high mileage out of tires, you should not have purchased a high-performance car.

JimmyH
11-05-07, 01:16 PM
I have a friend with an RX-8 that has ran three different sticky tire brands and cannot get more than 6K out of them before needing to be replaced.

Funny how tire longevity varies from owner to owner, and not just on the V. My sister just replaced the oem tires on her 8 at 27000 miles. And believe me, she drives hard. I don't remember the exact tire, but I know they were high performance summer tires (she bought the car when she lived in Phoenix.)

fredcook
11-05-07, 02:01 PM
-If you lease a V (confirmed by GMAC), you need to return the car with the exact same tires and plenty of tread.

They may have said this, but I don't think it will hold much water. Tires are consumable, just like brakes, oil, wipers, etc. As I recall, the law is if you are required to replace a consumable item with a specific brand, it MUST be provided to you for FREE.

As long as the consumables type, grade, etc., meets of exceeds the specs of the original, you can use it.

Do they want the same brand of gas in the tank as well?