: Emission ratings.



gothicaleigh
04-27-04, 05:51 PM
What are the emission ratings for the new Cadillac engines?

-Northstar VVT 4.6L V8 320hp

and

-VVT 3.6L V6 255-260hp

I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find them....

gothicaleigh
04-29-04, 01:38 AM
Ba-da-Bump.

I take it no one else can dredge them up either... :(

I did find this in my wanderings about the intera-net though(may be of interest to somebody):

From http://www.cleancarcampaign.org/standards.shtml:

"Aside from hybrid technologies, there are several other advanced fuel-efficient technologies that are being added to conventional vehicles. Examples of these include engines with variable valve timing, engines with displacement on demand, and advanced transmissions such as continuously variable transmissions, and automatic 5 and 6 speeds. These technologies all improve fuel economy of conventional vehicles by up to 8%. They can be found on vehicles including the Cadillac CTS/SRX, the Pontiac Vibe, and the Saturn Vue. They will soon also be available on the upcoming Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego, Ford Freestyle, Chevy Trailblazer EXT, and GMC Envoy XL/XUV."

So they can't be all too awful, right?

...right?

Ralph
04-29-04, 03:23 AM
Ba-da-Bump.

I take it no one else can dredge them up either... :(

I did find this in my wanderings about the intera-net though(may be of interest to somebody):

From http://www.cleancarcampaign.org/standards.shtml:

"Aside from hybrid technologies, there are several other advanced fuel-efficient technologies that are being added to conventional vehicles. Examples of these include engines with variable valve timing, engines with displacement on demand, and advanced transmissions such as continuously variable transmissions, and automatic 5 and 6 speeds. These technologies all improve fuel economy of conventional vehicles by up to 8%. They can be found on vehicles including the Cadillac CTS/SRX, the Pontiac Vibe, and the Saturn Vue. They will soon also be available on the upcoming Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego, Ford Freestyle, Chevy Trailblazer EXT, and GMC Envoy XL/XUV."

So they can't be all too awful, right?

...right?

You must have made a boo boo with the "http..." addy, because it didn't work for me. I got the jist of the article from what you typed, and I think people won't mind these advanced technologies, as long as it doesn't take away power from their internal combustion engines. Of course, it looks like these technologies are combining with existing tech. to make the engines even more efficient, but usually the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks of "electric" is gutless performance.

Ya know, a long time ago I saw a show on PBS? about how with a Model T or "A" if you ran out of gas, you could go into a farmers field and simply stuff some wheat or ? into the "tank" and off you went?! Of course this footage was about 1920 or so! My only guess is that the car somehow broke down the ethyl (?) from the wheat and used it for fuel? Anyone heard of this? I mean if they had simple technology like that then, why is everything so complicated now?!

BeelzeBob
04-29-04, 02:36 PM
What are the emission ratings for the new Cadillac engines?

-Northstar VVT 4.6L V8 320hp

and

-VVT 3.6L V6 255-260hp

I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find them....
What do you mean by "emission ratings"...? This is no simple answer to this the way cars are certified these days....

The RWD Northstar and the V6 in the CTS and SRX are both very clean engines. They are currently certified against the LEV emission standards in effect (Low Emission Vehicle) .

The Federal emission standards are expressed in a "grams per mile" configuration which mean a certain number of grams (mass) of the constituent per mile traveled on the FTP (Federal Test Procedure) or the 23 cycle emission test. The standard is a simple grams per mile regardless of the engine size, vehcile mass or anything else...so....since it takes more energy and thus more fuel to move a heavier luxury car along the FTP it actually has to be CLEANER at the tailpipe in terms of the emission constituent concentration in the exhaust stream so as to not to excede the absolute standard. It is much harder for a heavy luxury car to meet the LEV standard than a light weight economy car....so....both the engines you mention are very very clean in terms of the pollutants they produce. So clean that they manage to meet the LEV requirements even in the heavier vehicles.

Northstar engines have met the LEV standards in all the Cadillacs since 2000 model year and were among the first of the large luxury cars to do this.

The engine technology such as VVT allows the engines to meet the most stringent standards without the use of an external EGR system or AIR system that was required on the 2000 model FWD engines and is still used on the FWD Northstars. This reduces costs and reduces complexity and improves reliablity as there are two less systems on the car to fail....it also ensures that the engine will meet the emission requirements farther into the future if there are less emission components to fail.

slk230mb
04-29-04, 03:51 PM
Ralph, is the colon at the end of the link that is giving you problems, try this one:

http://www.cleancarcampaign.org/standards.shtml

gothicaleigh
04-29-04, 04:47 PM
I just wanted to know if they had managed to refine them to the point of ULEV or SULEV levels yet...

Ralph
04-29-04, 05:17 PM
Ralph, is the colon at the end of the link that is giving you problems, try this one:

http://www.cleancarcampaign.org/standards.shtml

That worked, thanks. :)

BeelzeBob
04-30-04, 04:46 PM
I just wanted to know if they had managed to refine them to the point of ULEV or SULEV levels yet...

It isn't a matter of refinement of the powertrains or the emission system as much as the mass/weight of the car. You will notice that all SULEV vehicles are pretty small, lightweight 4 cylinders...... Read my original posts about the way the emission standards are quantified. To negotiate the 23 cycle, Federal Test Procedure for emission certification the vehicle has to idle, accelerate, cruise and decel to idle 23 times at different prescribed rates and speeds. The amount of fuel expended to do this is directly proportional to the mass of the vehicle...and to some lesser extent the performance potential of the engine/vehicle and the number of cylinders of the engine. The amount of fuel burned creates a certain quantity of pollutants that have to be treated by the catalytic converter to yield a final quantity of pollutants at the tail pipe. This value for pollutants is NOT prorated per the vehicles mass, performanc potential, number of cylinders, etc.... it is an absolute value of pollution constituents....the HC and CO and NOx that the vehicle produced. So....if you want to get into SULEV territory it is going to be with a light weight car and a 4 cylinder engine that takes very little fuel to negotiate the 23 cycle emission test...so that very little absolute pollutants are produced...and the catalytic converter can convert that into an even smaller absolute value of pollutants.

Think of it like this....if all the exhaust from the car were collected in a large balloon or bag....and then the HC, CO and NOx could be separated and weighed, that would represent the actual mass or grams of each constituent produced. That, in effect, is what the emission test equipment does. So, hook a large, luxury car up to that bag next to a small 4 cylinder car and drive them on the same test schedule. It is easy to understand and visualize that the 4 cylinder car will have a much smaller volume of gas in the bag....and correspondingly smaller levels of each of the exhaust constituents to deal with.

If you would prorate the engine out and tailpipe emission levels of a 2005 Northstar for the mass of the vehicle and the number of cylinders it is easily as clean as a SULEV car.....but in reality it makes a greater amount of the material due to the mass and performance potential (displacement and number of cylinders) so it isn't certified to the SULEV requirements. The catalytic converter systems on the Northstars and other large vehicles have to actually be more efficient at converting the HC and CO and NOx to H2O and CO2 and N2 than some of the SULEV cars due to the greater amount of engine out levels for the reasons mentioned....primarily summed up in the explaination that those vehicles simply have to burn more gasoline to make the FTP driving schedule.

gothicaleigh
04-30-04, 05:56 PM
I was just wondering.
Here is a chart of some other vehicles:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccbg/2004pc.htm