: Buick Riviera vs. Lincoln Mark VIII (vs. Eldorado)



Jesda
10-21-07, 07:34 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-OhVQGdDa2I

-OhVQGdDa2I

ted tcb
10-21-07, 09:45 AM
They really seem to be pushing the Riv.
I'd take the V8, rwd Mk over the Riv anyday ... the Riv looks like a loaf of
French bread ... I don't think the styling has aged well at all.

hueterm
10-21-07, 10:00 AM
Was that like a Buick dealer training video? It had to have been -- or else why wasn't the Eldorado included?

I've only driven an Intech a couple of times, but it seems faster to me than my Riv -- but not as much as the N*.

The styling aspect, I'd agree that the Riv is a little more unique looking, but I'd have to call those a draw. I'd say both cars are "love 'em or hate 'em" as far as the styling goes. (I love them both.)

I've never been in the back seat of a Mark VIII, but the amount of legroom they showed w/the guy in the Riv -- they had to have had the front seat pushed up half way or more. The Riv probably does have more room, but they made it look like it had as much back seat room as my Concours....no way.

My only complaint on the Riv's interior space is the side-to-side knee room. There is a pod that protrudes from the door, plus a wide center console placed right where your knees hit them keeping you from widening your stance. Miss Manners might approve, but she can get in the back seat -- I'd rather have a little more room to move.

The Mark has a more traditional interior/dash/IP, for better or worse. I would have preferred more wood, but at least the slivers on the Riv's dash and shifter area look real. And the Mark's stereo :thepan: the "Concert Sound II" -- what a joke. It's also very difficult to replace the stock H.U. in the Riv due to the dash depth. I added a sub and built in XM to the center console of mine and am living with it.

I have 2 main issues w/the Mark VIII. First is the head room. The ones I've driven all had sunroofs and I brushed the headliner. In the Riv, I've got several inches of headroom -- at least 4 -- albeit without a sunroof. And the other main drawback -- the seal around the rear window puckers and the only way to fix it is to drop $1500 or something on a new rear window.

I think overall, there's not much out there more reliable than a 3800 engine, and I've heard horror stories on the Mark VIII's gremlins (although I shouldn't throw stones considering the other car I own...).

Cool video!

hueterm
10-21-07, 10:07 AM
They really seem to be pushing the Riv.
I'd take the V8, rwd Mk over the Riv anyday ... the Riv looks like a loaf of
French bread ... I don't think the styling has aged well at all.

I don't know that it's as much that it hasn't aged well, it's just as odd now as it was then. The designer had to have had a tadpole fetish or something. The Mark looked very advanced for the time, and looks much more mainstream w/the designs of today.

I would have rather they had channeled the 71/72 boattail when they designed the Riv, but I can't think of anything that looks even close to it from then or now.

Jesda
10-21-07, 10:33 AM
I have no idea where the video is from. What I do know is that the Riviera, Eldorado, and Mark VIII were often compared back in the 90s.

CadillacSTS42005
10-21-07, 11:41 AM
ETC trumps both imho

Blackout
10-21-07, 12:11 PM
ETC trumps both imho
Mark VIII > ETC, Riv. One reason and one reason only: rear wheel drive [/thread]

hueterm
10-21-07, 12:34 PM
ETC trumps both imho

W/O a doubt! (I'm looking into that, by the way...)

I agree w/RWD being better in principle, but I guess I just don't push the handling envelope hard enough to notice the oversteer issues.

On the flip side, the Riv does go like a herd of moose through snow... I'm sure traction control helps RWD tremendously -- but unless you're in a situation w/ground clearance issues, a big FWD car w/TC is almost as good as 4WD.

ted tcb
10-21-07, 01:06 PM
Styling is subjective.
When the Riv came out, I wanted one.
As the years roll by, I much prefer the long hood, short deck approach of the Mk and Eldorado.

hueterm
10-21-07, 01:09 PM
Styling is subjective.
When the Riv came out, I wanted one.
As the years roll by, I much prefer the long hood, short deck approach of the Mk and Eldorado.

Yeah, I never thought about the Riv that way, but the trunk is about the same length as the hood. It's hard to tell if they're coming or going.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-21-07, 01:11 PM
An Eldorado with a good warranty > Mark VIII > Riviera.

I've always been a fan of blocky cars, so I think the Eldorado is the best looking of the three. The Eldorado's interior has the most luxurious/expensive feel to it, and that's another big plus for me. And lastly, the Eldorado, atleast the ETC, is the fastest of the three. The Mark VIII's are nice too, and I like the 95-96 models most, because they combined the better (IMO) first generation exterior and interior design, with a lot of the luxury features of the second generation design. If aftermarket support was a huge concern for me, the Mark VIII would be my first choice...and I'd love to own a piece of the Mark lineage too, but preferably one of the yacht models...The Riviera is nice too, but that design is love/hate...some days I love it, some days I hate it. The Mark VIII's design isn't perfect either...from some angles it looks too much like a Thunderbird...which isn't really a luxury look. And I think a personal luxury car should have a V8 too, and that was never available in the Riviera...as great as the S/C 3800 is...it's still a V-6.

Playdrv4me
10-21-07, 03:31 PM
The Riviera has the best, most well proportioned and flowing body of the two, but that is really about it.

Mark VIII takes the cake mechanically and electronically, ESPECIALLY for 1997 and 98. Xenon Lights, that tremendous JBL Audio system, the Neon tail light arrangement, sweeping dash etc. The only thing the Mark VIII needed was electroluminescent gauges and it truly would have been perfect. But since Cadillac didnt step up to the plate and give the Eldo EL gauges then I suppose Lincoln thought they could forgo them as well.

77CDV
10-21-07, 03:50 PM
The Mark, Riv, and the I30 all belonged to what I call the "melting chocolate" school of design. The current Merc CLS reminds me of them, and not for the better. The Eldo was really the best styled of the three personal luxury coupes, not least because it was highly evocative of the exterior styling of the first gen FWD Eldos.

Playdrv4me
10-21-07, 05:31 PM
Thats very true, the one thing I didnt like about the Mark was the fact that it has no proportion whatsoever, its just a big UFO looking blob. had it been more squared off like the Thunderbird it was based on, it would have stolen more sales from the Eldorado.

Night Wolf
10-21-07, 06:33 PM
I like the Riv, a lot, inside and out. Only thing that really bothers me, is the lack of driver info center and fuel data center... the previous gen Riv was loaded with electric gizmos, then they wanted to strip it down to be a simple luxorious car, what the Riv has always been... but... I like them a lot.

A '95 ETC would be 2nd choice.... Mark VIII... I like, but I am just not fond of the overall exterior design, nor the dash/interior, which is really important to me in a car.

JimmyH
10-21-07, 07:59 PM
my step-dad had the first year MarkVIII. He went through three engines before getting rid of it at 30000 miles. And two transmissions. And three sets of something or other for the air ride suspension. And three sets of front brake rotors. And... well, you get the idea.

The second time he changed the oil, I was there with him. While the car was jacked up, he tried to open the door. It would not. That is some great structural integrity I tell you.

That was the biggest piece of crap car I have seen.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-21-07, 08:10 PM
You can't open the door on a C4 'vette while it's up on a hoist either.

Jesda
10-21-07, 08:38 PM
ETC and ESC get high marks for style, features, and quiet. It really is among the most beautiful and technologically advanced cars of the last 15 years.

But the Mark VIII is an outstanding car to travel a long distance in, especially when the roads get curvy. This summer I put 750 miles on a '93 and fell completely in love with it. 25mpg+, and it carved through the mountains and hills in Oregon with secure handling and supreme comfort for three grown men. 90mph through the bends. :D The chassis is also more balanced than the Eldorado. What the video says about the ride quality is true.

Riviera needs a wood trim kit to feel warm, but I like the shape of the cockpit otherwise. I'm sure the reliability and fuel economy beat both the Mark and Eldo. I've never driven one.

So for me, I'd enjoy an Eldorado, but the Mark VIII is the one I'd keep.

hueterm
10-21-07, 09:38 PM
The Riv is one of the few cars that I like most of the aftermarket wood kits I've seen.

Blackout
10-21-07, 10:32 PM
The Mark VIII is such a nice car but for whatever reason people give it a bad rep. the airbag suspension is a cool setup but when my level ride sensor went out and it jacked the car up and blew the airbags out I just went with a coilover conversion. It was the best $500 I ever spent on the car. I got it with a 1.5" lowering kit and it looked badass! The only problem was it would bottom out on speed bumps. I beat a modded S2000 in my bone stock Mark VIII from a roll and 2 ETC's. Now don't quote me in any way, shape, or form saying that that is the norm but that is just from personal experience. As soon as I got my Mark VIII the first thing I did was give it a tune up and it seemed to make a pretty good difference in the performance of the car. A lot of people don't know how to get the best performance out of the Mark VIII's because they just leave them in drive and you don't get as good of 1/4's out of them. But the Mark VIII (at least the 1st gens) from a 70 mph roll are beasts! I'd put it into 2nd gear and get it up to 70 mph and that thing would take off like a shot! Hell the day I picked it up I beat the FTS from a roll on I-95!

Mark0101
10-22-07, 01:14 PM
Mark VIIIs are good from 70 MPH roll, even the gen II. But My 93 Mark VIII would wipe my 97 Mark VIIIs ass every time. My 93 does have more mods so i guess thats not fair. I will try to get a video of my 93 vs my 97 if I get time.

Mark0101
10-22-07, 06:00 PM
Also I don't, when I drove the 97 ETC, I felt closed in. It didn't have an open feel to it. It also reminded me of my 88 Deville with the box interior.

BTW Every northstar I have test drove, why is the gas pedal so light? It doesn't have any feel to it.

SLPR 6.0L
12-01-07, 12:11 PM
I currently own a 99 pullied Rivi with an DIY opened up stock air boxand 131K miles. This is the best car I ever owned, not one squeek or rattle ever and it is rock solid reliable and plows through snow. It would run neck and neck with the couple chipped MK VIIIs I have driven (95 and 97LSC). I also owned a DOHC 4.6L cobra which has a motor similar to the VIII, and nothing sounds better as far as exhaust note.
Northstar ETC would out do both. As far as interriors I prefer the 99 Rivi, they added real wood accents in 98 or 99, and the round retro gauges aremuch nicer than the ETC or lincoln. The only thing the Mk VIII lacked was gauges as mention earlier. Rivis have more leg room in back and a bigger truck and get 25+ mpg.