: Rear End blues



JimmyMack
10-19-07, 05:55 AM
Greetings,

From what I can gather from my search of the site archives, there is no solution to the rear end problem (please tell me I'm wrong)? If this is so, why are some of you heavily modding your V's? Are you swapping corvette or some other car's rears? If stock cars are whineing, modded cars must be blowing up unless something is being done. I want to drive around without hearing this racket in my back seat. How much is this going to cost me? I read something about some tuner making a custom rear end, but nothing seems to have come from it.

What are you hot rod guys doing to your rear end?

On another note: Is there a guy by the name of Dustin on this forum? He seems to have been the previous owner of my car.

rand49er
10-19-07, 07:43 AM
Jimmy, are you still on warranty? If so, get it replaced.

Doug Klein had come up with a for-all-practical-purposes-bullet-proof rear end, but market conditions caused him to cease offering it. He also had produced a number of KARS kits which were meant to significantly reduce wheelhop and support the rear end which translated into greater longevity, but these too are no longer offered. BMR has something, but I never got into that and can't offer much info.

With all the cars just now or soon to be coming off warranty, someone will again come up with a "solution" and make some bucks ... it's just a matter of time.

My $0.02.

JimmyMack
10-19-07, 07:47 AM
Thanks for the .02. I'm definitely gonna try to get it replaced. Not much of a solution, though, since the replacement will be the same as the crappy original. Looking forward to you great gearhead minds to come up with something or I will have to sell this vehicle.

CIWS
10-19-07, 07:57 AM
Parker had one made from a different source (Madman) down in the Houston area. Don't know any others were ever produced.

theloanman219
10-19-07, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the .02. I'm definitely gonna try to get it replaced. Not much of a solution, though, since the replacement will be the same as the crappy original. Looking forward to you great gearhead minds to come up with something or I will have to sell this vehicle.

Forgive me for asking but, what year is your car? If it is a 04 or 05 they might replace it with a 06 which is much better from what I understand. I personally have not done any mods except CAGS and CAI. My service advisor did tell me when I asked about the replacement, it will depend on the Vin. Another arguement is that this car is not really a drag car. If you (or the previous owner) take hard launches off line you might have some problems. If your close to being out of warranty, make this your first mission. Find us a usable, inexspensive rear!

Good luck :D
Gene

The Tony Show
10-19-07, 09:06 AM
A limited slip differential whining at certain speeds is not uncommon in performance cars- do a google search for "rear differential whine" with the word Mustang, BMW, Mercedes, Viper, etc, and you'll find tons of results.

The panic about the CTS-Vs rear differential stems mainly from this forum and people blowing it out of proportion. The number of actual FAILED differentials that have blown apart is small compared to the number of CTS-Vs on the road: 12 or 14 reports of total failures out of 14,000 CTS-Vs produced = .001% failure rate.

Enjoy your car, but understand that a quiet rear end is not standard equipment on a high performance car.

lonestranger
10-19-07, 09:21 AM
I doubt those two conditions can be met - It will be either usable or inexpensive - I fear those two goals are at opposite ends of the market spectrum!:D Even GM has found it more expediant to ignore the relatively small number of total failures, and out wait the warrenty issue. I do not abuse in any way, my 05, and it is on it's 3rd diff (two of which are the 06+ design.) It was just a poorly engineered (or cost conscious) design, from the start, that GM intends to "tough" out (remember the Olds 5.7 Diesel??)


Forgive me for asking but, what year is your car? If it is a 04 or 05 they might replace it with a 06 which is much better from what I understand. I personally have not done any mods except CAGS and CAI. My service advisor did tell me when I asked about the replacement, it will depend on the Vin. Another arguement is that this car is not really a drag car. If you (or the previous owner) take hard launches off line you might have some problems. If your close to being out of warranty, make this your first mission. Find us a usable, inexspensive rear!

Good luck :D
Gene

Dean400hp
10-19-07, 09:49 AM
well, Im not sure why this is but I'll tell you my rear end story, when I blew my rear end I was driving the car pretty hard every day, I had it replaced and not knowing I was suppose to drive easy for 200 miles, I went out and beat the crap out of it, down shifting hard, slamming gears, spinning tires from dead stop....for some reason it seams that beating it rite after being replaced has made it indistructable! know matter what I do I cant seem to hurt the rear again! I have lots of mods also, so thinking It would break and I would just bring in agian under warrenty, it just wont break!! I dont recommend this abuse, but for some reason it worked for me.:hide:

Dean

The Tony Show
10-19-07, 09:52 AM
Dean, your rear diff is afraid of you kicking its ass if it breaks, that's all. :D

fredcook
10-19-07, 10:14 AM
I'm still curious as to how many 04/05 diffs go bad compared to 06/07's. I'm also curious as to how many replacement diffs are 04/05 vs. 06/07's.

In my case, my 05 got a 06/07 replacement.

Florian
10-19-07, 10:15 AM
it just wont break!! I dont recommend this abuse, but for some reason it worked for me.:hide:

Dean

LOL...famous last words....just an FYI....your new rear, when out of warranty, will cost you over 3K. Better start saving your nickles now...


F

Dean400hp
10-19-07, 10:46 AM
crap! I just looked out in the parking lot and saw my rear end sitting 10 feet behind the car...lol
anyone see PINKS all out last night? damn, I want to be on that! I would do a donut off the line and run down the track in reverse , waiving to all the fans..hehe

The Tony Show
10-19-07, 10:49 AM
anyone see PINKS all out last night? damn, I want to be on that!

I watch Pinks almost every night- I love that damn show! I'd love to be on the regular Pinks (not "all out"), and only if I get to race an SRT-8 :sneaky:.

Mystical_Ice
10-19-07, 11:06 AM
The panic about the CTS-Vs rear differential stems mainly from this forum and people blowing it out of proportion. The number of actual FAILED differentials that have blown apart is small compared to the number of CTS-Vs on the road: 12 or 14 reports of total failures out of 14,000 CTS-Vs produced = .001% failure rate.

12 or 14 reports of total rear end failures? I could name 12 or 14 rear end failures off the top of my head... i think a good 15-20% of CTS-V owners on this forum have had differential failures... there are some that are on their 5th or 6th diff :-/

mrwhite
10-19-07, 11:08 AM
I thought I'd post with my experience, my car just turned 33,000 miles and I don't have a hint of rear diff. whine. I'm almost out of factory warranty and have been considering trying to make the diff whine so that I get a replacement. I don't know if I'm an isolated case or not, but like I've said, I haven't had a problem thus far.

fredcook
10-19-07, 11:10 AM
I thought I'd post with my experience, my car just turned 33,000 miles and I don't have a hint of rear diff. whine. I'm almost out of factory warranty and have been considering trying to make the diff whine so that I get a replacement. I don't know if I'm an isolated case or not, but like I've said, I haven't had a problem thus far.

What year model do you have?

Dean400hp
10-19-07, 11:13 AM
your a brave man to put your car on the line, I think if I lost I would jump in my car yelling, it's mine, all mine, you cant have it!!

tweeter81
10-19-07, 11:14 AM
I would be willing to say that if the car is driven within the parameters that it was designed around, the diff probably will not fail. The car is not a drag racer, if you want that, get a foxbody rustang. The car is a true road course killer, even though it weighs damn near 2 tons.

I have a 2004. I had my diff replaced (for whine and grinding on sharp turns while backing up, i.e. coming out of a parking spot) at 14,000 miles. I was fairly hard on the car when I first got it and didn't realize the danger to the diff. I probably launched the car 15-20 times, wheelhopping every time, and badly. The wheelhop is the ultimate contributing factor to the demise of my diff and each and every diff in our cars.

A very simple solution, don't launch hard and induce wheelhop, and you won't break your diff. Our cars can be driven very fast and hard without doing the above. Now if you add a lot more HP, you are taking a chance...

Another example: I have taken my V to the road course 2 times and had an absolute blast both times. The second time was a HPDE (high performance driving education) and I probably did around 70-80 laps on a 2.3 mile road course (Pueblo, CO) throughout the day. On the last 3 laps I was timed, and in the end, my fastest lap time was 1-2 seconds faster than another guy who was renting a fully race-prepped Mazda Miata. Even though those cars are not nearly as powerful as the V, they are known for being a great, light track car. I beat on my V the whole day and never once worried about the diff because I was not launching the car and I was driving it how it should be driven. Sorry about the long post, I just want new owners out there to realize that our diffs are not made of glass and don't just break at the drop of a hat. In the longrun would I like a better diff solution, hell yes. But for now, while I need the warranty, I can live with the rearend situation. :D

mrwhite
10-19-07, 11:27 AM
I have a 2004 model. My warranty is up at the end of May. Thinking about buying the extended warranty just in case.

I think Tweeter81 has hit it right on the dot. ^^^ I don't abuse my vehicle, yeah I get on the throttle on freeway on-ramps and stuff like that, but I don't launch very hard in my car at all.

The Tony Show
10-19-07, 11:30 AM
12 or 14 reports of total rear end failures? I could name 12 or 14 rear end failures off the top of my head... i think a good 15-20% of CTS-V owners on this forum have had differential failures... there are some that are on their 5th or 6th diff :-/

This comment is exactly what I mean about hype. "Failure" is defined in the dictionary as:

A cessation of proper functioning or performance: a power failure.

90% of people with replacement diffs (especially those on their 3rd or 4th) had noise complaints, not failures. As I already said once, do a Google search for "rear diff whine" and insert the name of any performance car after it (Mustang, Corvette, BMW, etc) and you'll find a ton of results. Noisy diffs are common in high performance cars.

There have been a some instances of outright failure, but that's to be expected with anything man-made, and not a high enough amount to cause alarm.

atdeneve
10-19-07, 11:31 AM
A limited slip differential whining at certain speeds is not uncommon in performance cars- do a google search for "rear differential whine" with the word Mustang, BMW, Mercedes, Viper, etc, and you'll find tons of results.

The panic about the CTS-Vs rear differential stems mainly from this forum and people blowing it out of proportion. The number of actual FAILED differentials that have blown apart is small compared to the number of CTS-Vs on the road: 12 or 14 reports of total failures out of 14,000 CTS-Vs produced = .001% failure rate.

Enjoy your car, but understand that a quiet rear end is not standard equipment on a high performance car.

Tony, please, give me a break. The base CTS and the SRX are both equally notorious for their whining differentials, as well. Ask any service tech (I'm sure this won't be too out of the way for ya) and, if they don't bullshit you, they will readily concede to that fact - but you already knew this.

You also probably already know that they happen to use the same differential that the V employs. You also probably already know that even the torque ratings provided by the very manufacturer of our wonderful diff, Getrag, indicated that it would not suffice at stock power levels - so how dealers could even begin to approach a justification of warranty denials based on modifications is beyond me - it was set up to fail right off the production floor.

I would implore you to consider, just for a second, that the differentials on our Vs are just plain crap. Plain and simple, just not acceptable. It is what it is. Please don't try to defend this one. Please. I beg of you.

And by labelling consumer outcry as irrational panic and hysteria blown out of proportion, in effect, you're downplaying the fact that these diffs should never have passed on into production. Yes things - especially on the internet - can and will be blown out of proportion, however, it still does not do away with the fact that these diffs are indeed weak sauce. Hell, how many GM engineers and testers involved in the design and development of the V shake their heads in utter disapproval and shame when it comes to the topic of the diff?

Moreover, I wouldn't say that there's a panic, so much as there are many V owners that feel that they have been done wrong by the dealers and/or Cadillac. A bad design is one thing and is more often than not forgiveable, if they are approached and provided a solution for, as opposed to being brushed under the rug in hopes that it will go away (in about 4 years, give or take). I don't know, but it seems to me that this certainly warrants an outcry by those that are being insidiously turned away and ignored. That's fcuked up, if you ask me. But, hey, I guess ya didn't...

atdeneve
10-19-07, 11:39 AM
12 or 14 reports of total rear end failures? I could name 12 or 14 rear end failures off the top of my head... i think a good 15-20% of CTS-V owners on this forum have had differential failures... there are some that are on their 5th or 6th diff :-/

When he says failures, he's talking about total outright failure. You're talking about what many would consider to be unacceptable characteristics of the V's differential - binding, shuddering, and/or whining (in many cases very loud, as in able-to-hear-it-over-turned-up-stereo loud).

The Tony Show
10-19-07, 11:40 AM
It's cool man- I don't take it as an insult.

I've stated many times on these boards that the rear could have been beefier on the V series. I know all about the whining on the SRX and CTS, which is usually caused by damage due to low fluid levels after leaky pinion seals cause fluid loss. I'm aware of the specs on the Getrag and all that, but it still doesn't change the fact that well over 90% of rear differential replacements are for noise, not outright failure. I had one grinding during sharp turns, and the cause was my vent hole puking the fluid out the top, which caused the clutch packs to grind and damage themselves- my fault for not getting the leak fixed sooner.

My bone of contention is that this board has singlehandedly created mass hysteria in the Internet car community about CTS-V rear diffs exploding left and right, and it's a complete exaggeration. Is the part underrated for the application? Probably. Do they leak and damage themselves? Sure. Can proper owner attention to their $50k investment prevent it? Absolutely. Top off the fluid and get the seal replaced if it's leaking and don't wheelhop the car and you'll be just fine.

The cases of outright failure are unfortunate, but I still contend that they are no more prevalent than any other RWD performance car.

mrwhite
10-19-07, 12:16 PM
I totally agree with Tony. When I started looking at CTS-V's and doing the research, the forums really put me off from buying my car. I decided to take the chance anyways, and haven't had any problems. We should also check ourselves, because IMHO the word failure is thrown around way too much. I'm an engineer and usually when we discuss failure it's usually when a component can no longer perform its function safely.

atdeneve
10-19-07, 12:28 PM
Right, but I'm not talkin about total outright failure. I'm talkin about the poor design of the diff. Yes, other LSD cars will whine, too. But it is overly extreme in the V. Unacceptable. The wheelhop does aggravate the situation, however, that is not a valid defense. It's just another element of poor design. Yes, other IRS cars will wheelhop, as well. But, again, it is overly extreme in the V. Unacceptable.

The aggrandized notion that there are Vs dropping their diffs left and right is just that. An aggrandizement. If I see a bunch of chickens runnin around with their heads partially severed, squawkin some nonsense, I may stare at them a while for a bit of amusement, but at the end of the day, it's just that - a bunch chickens squawkin nonsense. Nothin' more. If any idiot believes that there are indeed an inordinate amount of Vs exploding there differentials all over the roads, and all the while Cadillac has managed to turn a blind eye while escaping the attention of the National Institute of Highway Safety, then I'm pretty sure that they're probably gonna join in on them chickens squawkin that nonsense. And well, like I said. Just a bunch a headless chickens (or near headless chickens for the sake of argument, cuz they're squawkin nonsense, don't ya know?). Right? S'not important.

However, I don't even think that's the case. I mean, most of the regulars on this site say shit in jest, in regards to the differential - just jokin around. For example, someone posts lookin to do some intensive mods or, perhaps, he already has and he's postin the results. Then we get the "Oh shit, son, you got a trailer figured into that equation, cus you're gonna need it after your rear takes a shit." People fcuk around like that with the understanding that we're in the company of those who know. And, yea, it may lead to some stray ear thinkin' that the situation is a bit more dire. But, all in all, no one's takin' it literally. Yes, there are some misperceptions. But again, that's not the issue. The issue of overly audible differentials is not an exaggeration. It is a reality. That's the issue. Well, at least, that's the issue that concerns me. And the OP as well. And I'm sure there are others. Not whether or not them near-headless chickens be squawkin some bull ish or otherwise.

Anyways, I know what you're sayin, you know what I'm sayin. Blah, blah, blah. Same wavelength and all that. Just didn't want the real issues on the differential to somehow be de-emphasized, ya know? Bleh. Blah. Blooh. Bluhg. I love the V.

The Tony Show
10-19-07, 12:33 PM
Bleh. Blah. Blooh. Bluhg. I love the V.

Greatest ending to a post ever. :lol:

CTSV_Rob
10-19-07, 12:34 PM
I have about 9K on my '07 V and I don't baby the car. I have made a couple of Mod's to it and the rear end is not complaining.

I had that irritating Fluid puking problem but took it to the dealer and the problem is gone now. I have also replaced the fluid with a AmsOil Severe Duty fluid. Not sure if this helps but they are a great company so I figured it wouldn't hurt.

Noise free, the transmission makes more noise then the rear.

I am toying with some major mod's. I was lucky enough to meet with Lynn (The engineer for the CTS-VR) and I talked with him a little about the mods to the VR rear. The good news is they use the stock case but much of the internals and Half shaft flanges are different. They have cool mod's which is supposed to improve traction and reliability of the rear. When I have more info on this I will post.

The VR has also went to solid bushings on the rear but I will not do this. I will install the new KARS III Cradle to reduce the wheelhop however (thanks doug).

JimmyMack
10-19-07, 01:37 PM
First of all, my V is a 2004 with 34K miles. I don't drag it or abuse it. It's not my style. It will remain stock as long as I keep it. I admit, it's been tough for me to get a true and clear understanding on the seriousness of this problem and maybe my expectations were out of order. But Cadillac marketed this car as a worthy competitor to luxury sport sedans like the Jaguar S-type R and M3 (M3 not a sedan, I know) and I gotta say that only the engine matches up to these two. If I had to rate this vehicle by it's engine alone, it would get 5 stars. Its a nice motor, but so what. A $50K should be a work of art, not a piece of work. Although I've never driven an M3, I driven a couple of Jaguar R's (S-type and XJR) and there were only small hints of driveline noise in these vehicles. Once more, if there were this kind of racket I'm hearing coming out of a Jag, there would be an immediate dealer reaction. Not to mention Mercedes!
I truly hope this is blown out of proportion and my next rear end is trouble free. Excessive noise might as well be a complete failure as far as I'm concerned. I'm not trying to impress every boy racer at every stoplight. I don't need to mount and brag about my "kills". I just need a sedan that can give me quiet and fairly reliable power and I really need an American manufacturer to step up to the plate and start making sophisticated sports cars. I know we invented the muscle car, but we need to progress beyond that. Everyone else has.

heavymetals
10-19-07, 01:50 PM
This thread is redundant and flogging a dead horse.

Don't do clutch dumps and burnouts and the probability of a rear end "failure" are greatly diminished.

IMHO

SuperVeee
10-19-07, 01:50 PM
The V rear will leak and eventually fail if you launch it hard with wheel hop- that much is given. If you put a big truck rear in the V and launch hard with wheel hop it will die also. If you want to drag the car the rear needs to be locked down tight then it will live much longer. Rear movement kills-

I know this to be true having owned many different cars with IRS and sometimes putting 3 times the stock HP through a stock rear. Of course I had to lock the rear down and use harder bushings etc on these cars. No wheel hop will keep your IRS happy and will keep most of the bitching down from people on the forum.

I guess people who buy the V think that it's a capable drag the car but it's not in stock form. It's a road racer and a good one at that. I think this is where people create more problems for themselves trying to use the unmodified car for something it was not meant for.

JimmyMack
10-19-07, 01:55 PM
I guess people who buy the V think that it's a capable drag the car but it's not in stock form. It's a road racer and a good one at that. I think this is where people create more problems for themselves trying to use the unmodified car for something it was not meant for.


This is comforting to hear. I hope it is true, or else it's off to the imports for me. I can deal with the rest of the foibles of this car, but the driveline music has got to go.

BTW, I'm not totally opposed to drivetrain noise. Anyone fortunate enough to vigorously test-drive a Porsche 911 will be rewarded with a symphony of axle/shifter/engine noise that cause you to immediately choose the stereo delete option on your order form. Worlds away from this elephant/banshee noise coming from my V.

SuperVeee
10-19-07, 02:53 PM
Speaking of 911 I love mine and in the 80s I was younger and dumber dragged it for a short time until that killed my wallet. That was my 4th IRS car and I learned that the ring and pinion will explode and the CV's will blow if you do not do something with the wheel hop. Same Same for the V no different.

Yeah the 911 makes all kinds of great mechanical sounds that are better than listening to the stereo. If you are really into those sounds try a 914 with a 911 motor - the 2 timing chains are inches from your back and sing all day long!

My guess is about half of the people who don't know better about the V's LSD rear whine end up on this forum and bitch about how the rear sucks. That low whine tells you that you have a performance LSD rear. Unless the whine is really excessive you probably do not have a problem and you need to either enjoy the sound of the LSD or just turn up the stereo and have a nice day.

rand49er
10-19-07, 03:00 PM
Jimmy, which dealer here in the Detroit area are you thinking about going to for a new diff? The reason I ask is that some are better than others, especially on the diff replacement issue.

BTW, a lot of good hashing this around ... this thread is a good read with some good, sober, to-the-issue discussion. IMHO, GM did our '04/'05 diffs on the cheap, but after getting a new, fresh diff just this last June, then installing the maggie in July, I currently have zero diff whine. I have not done any clutch dumps, but have broken loose the tires in first and second during some spirited accelerations (sans wheelhop) just due to the torque ... again no revving it up and side-stepping the clutch ... but, zero whine.

m32V
10-19-07, 03:51 PM
Although I've never driven an M3, I driven a couple of Jaguar R's (S-type and XJR) and there were only small hints of driveline noise in these vehicles.

I sold my M3 last week to get my 05 v. The M3 rear end had some light grinding when backing while turning tightly. You could also hear it whine at certain speeds. It never bothered me and was what I expected from a high performance car. The M3 has a great IRS setup and doesn't suffer from wheel hop and is the same unit used in the previous generation M5 (not sure about the new M5). It has been know to handle lots of power without much issue.

My CTS-V is much quieter in general. I have heard very little whining so far and the car has 40k miles on the original dif. The V has a less harsh ride and my guess is that the wheelhop is the price you pay for having this level of ride with this level of performance.

FYI I read in Bimmer magazine that the reason they didn't intitally offer a manual tranny in the new M5 was because it has excessive wheelhop. With the SMG tranny they offer, the computer wont allow enough torque at launch to get wheelhop. Now, because of public outcry, they offer a manual tranny but you can't turn traction control off, because they didn't want to repair diffs.

JimmyMack
10-19-07, 04:44 PM
Randy, They say Massey is the best dealer around here. I'll try him out next month. I'm trading my Magneflow with another member here for the stock exhaust and the transformation will be complete. It's good to hear you have zero whine. Very good.

Mystical_Ice
10-19-07, 04:45 PM
That low whine tells you that you have a performance LSD rear.

negative. my V has no whine whatsoever, so obviously a whine doesn't mean that it's a "performance" product, it means there's something wrong with it.

JimmyMack
10-19-07, 04:55 PM
With the SMG tranny they offer, the computer wont allow enough torque at launch to get wheelhop. Now, because of public outcry, they offer a manual tranny but you can't turn traction control off, because they didn't want to repair diffs.

I almost never turn traction control off. Maybe this will be the answer to having my diff and eating it too :) <sorry>
But seriously, I think BMW's got the right idea. This is a supposed to be a luxury sports sedan, not some all out street racer. Please don't lure us button-down types in with the dual climate controls, heated seats and memory settings, and then nullify it with race car noises... I thought that was what the GTO was for.

STAGEUP
10-19-07, 08:26 PM
well, Im not sure why this is but I'll tell you my rear end story, when I blew my rear end I was driving the car pretty hard every day, I had it replaced and not knowing I was suppose to drive easy for 200 miles, I went out and beat the crap out of it, down shifting hard, slamming gears, spinning tires from dead stop....for some reason it seams that beating it rite after being replaced has made it indistructable! know matter what I do I cant seem to hurt the rear again! I have lots of mods also, so thinking It would break and I would just bring in agian under warrenty, it just wont break!! I dont recommend this abuse, but for some reason it worked for me.:hide:

Dean

From what Im starting to hear, the 06+ is made of a very tough aluminum, as compared to the 04-05 diff aluminum. Thats probably why you havent broke it.

Florian
10-19-07, 08:46 PM
That low whine tells you that you have a performance LSD rear. .\

No, it means your rear is fooked, your pinion bearing is worn or your carrier bearing is failing. My 525HP STS-V doesnt whine...and it has a performance LSD rear.....


F

STAGEUP
10-19-07, 09:20 PM
Yep, whine= screwed up pinion bearing most of the time.

Mystical_Ice
10-20-07, 12:15 AM
lol that IS a good one though

"that whine you hear? that means you have a performance rear!!111oeoneoneoneoneoneone". i wonder how long before the dealerships start telling me that :-/

The Tony Show
10-20-07, 10:52 AM
Yep, whine= screwed up pinion bearing most of the time.

A LOUD whine you can hear over the radio means the pinion is wearing- subtle whine is normal once it's broken in, and not exclusive to the CTS-V.

Here's pages of M3 owners with whine: http://www.m3forum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000546.html

Mustangs:
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_2020118/tm.htm

GTOs:
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3276334

Acura RLs:
http://rl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4628


I can go on and on. A whining differential is pretty common, especially when you're throwing 500lb/ft of torque at it. It does not mean it's in danger of failing. If it's so loud you hear it over the radio then take it and get it replaced, but don't expect it to not come back.

fredcook
10-20-07, 04:03 PM
There have been several comments regarding the fact the V isn't a drag car (which I think I tend to agree with), and that its rear wasn't meant for nailing it from a standstill. But I was thinking about how GM promotes the car. Every V ad I've seen talked only about how it goes from 0-6 in under 5 seconds. Remember the TV ads, the ones they ran during Superbowl where the V launched out of the tunnel? They made it very clear the V was a rocket from a standstill, and indicated little else. Then it dawned on me that the reason I even looked at a V to begin with was because it was touted as a hard accelerating car.

Then I remembered a car show (TV) I saw recently where they interviewed Cadillac's V product manager (the show centered around the new $100k XLR-V). He stated the primary requirement for a Cadillac to be a V is that it MUST go from 0-60 in under 5 seconds. He didn't say anything about handling, breaking, etc.

Sooo... It would seem that GM should put a rear in the V that can live up to THEIR advertising. Getting to 60 in under 5 will require a hard launch, and will be hard on the rear.

Am I wrong?

AirCav
10-20-07, 04:57 PM
Sooo... It would seem that GM should put a rear in the V that can live up to THEIR advertising. Getting to 60 in under 5 will require a hard launch, and will be hard on the rear.

Am I wrong?No, you're not.

rand49er
10-20-07, 07:22 PM
... Sooo... It would seem that GM should put a rear in the V that can live up to THEIR advertising. Getting to 60 in under 5 will require a hard launch, and will be hard on the rear. ...I've got a Ford Focus as a daily driver. It goes 0-60 in ... well, let's just say, a lot of seconds. Doesn't mean I drive it that way till something gives out. :nono:

Don't get me wrong, the V's diff is definitely a big weak point. I just think it's a bit unreasonable to abuse any car, and hammering 0-60 runs several times a day is abusing it, IMHO.

mcfaddens17
10-20-07, 07:52 PM
First of all, my V is a 2004 with 34K miles. I don't drag it or abuse it. It's not my style. It will remain stock as long as I keep it. I admit, it's been tough for me to get a true and clear understanding on the seriousness of this problem and maybe my expectations were out of order. But Cadillac marketed this car as a worthy competitor to luxury sport sedans like the Jaguar S-type R and M3 (M3 not a sedan, I know) and I gotta say that only the engine matches up to these two. If I had to rate this vehicle by it's engine alone, it would get 5 stars. Its a nice motor, but so what. A $50K should be a work of art, not a piece of work. Although I've never driven an M3, I driven a couple of Jaguar R's (S-type and XJR) and there were only small hints of driveline noise in these vehicles. Once more, if there were this kind of racket I'm hearing coming out of a Jag, there would be an immediate dealer reaction. Not to mention Mercedes!
I truly hope this is blown out of proportion and my next rear end is trouble free. Excessive noise might as well be a complete failure as far as I'm concerned. I'm not trying to impress every boy racer at every stoplight. I don't need to mount and brag about my "kills". I just need a sedan that can give me quiet and fairly reliable power and I really need an American manufacturer to step up to the plate and start making sophisticated sports cars. I know we invented the muscle car, but we need to progress beyond that. Everyone else has.

OMG, Are you actually trying to compare the "V" to a POS Jag? I'll take the "V" each, any and every day, even with a little rear noise. If you want a nice, quite, soft riding old man car, buy a Lexus. I don't think any of us buy these cars for that kind of ride. We buy them for the pure power and because it is the hottest 4 door car on the road. Any very high HP car is going to have mechanical issues, live with it. Be happy and thankful you have the opportunity drive such a car each and every day.

AirCav
10-20-07, 08:55 PM
I've got a Ford Focus as a daily driver.
Let's say that Ford marketed your Focus as a miserly gas sipper that will get a class-leading 35-45 mpg. That level of fuel efficiency is what sold you on the car. In fact, you are willing to pay a premium price for those numbers. Let's say $50,000. After all, you're in it for the environment, baby!

Reality, it turns out, is more like 15 or 20 mpg. If you are skillful.

You learn from an internet tree hugger forum that your Focus is actually capable of those numbers but you will need to make a few small adjustments to do it and it will probably void your new car warranty.

Deactivate two cylinders, remove the water pump belt, and give the ECM an extremely lean tune. Now inflate your tires to 70psi and remove the passenger seats from the car. These changes ("mods", we'll call them) severely shorten the life of the engine and tires but they are your best bet to obtain the fuel efficiency you dream of. (By the way, these mods and your attempt to duplicate the marketing numbers will be construed as abuse by the same friendly neighborhood Ford dealer that talked you into buying that righteous eco-ride)

Are we still happy?

fredcook
10-22-07, 11:17 AM
Don't get me wrong, the V's diff is definitely a big weak point. I just think it's a bit unreasonable to abuse any car, and hammering 0-60 runs several times a day is abusing it, IMHO.

Oh, I completely agree with you. And I can count on less than two hands the number of times I really pushed hard from a standstill (but have never sidestepped the clutch) in over 36k miles. Yet, my rear had to be replaced due to "significant carrier, housing and ring damage" (techs quote).

But GM does apparently replace the rears... at least the 04/05's. And I think the 06/07 rear they're putting in is more solid. At least it doesn't seem that as many 06/07's are being replaced... but I still plan on extending the warranty...

WheelHop
10-22-07, 11:34 AM
If GM would have engineered the car to handle the power, I think we'd all be happier.. I don't see how they would think the use the same components from a 240hp car for a 400hp car and it hold up.? How long have they been making high performance cars? I mean, the Z06 gets different components from the regular Vette to handle the power..?
It's just lack of wanting to put more costs into the car that they ALREADY charge premium pricing that'll fall flat on it's face in two years.. ??

It's horrible judgment that they're now paying for.. Spend more the 1st time around and save in the long run.. It's just good business ethics!

JimmyMack
10-23-07, 07:51 PM
OMG, Are you actually trying to compare the "V" to a POS Jag? .

You sir, have obviously never driven a Jaguar S-type R. Until you drive one yourself, I don't consider you educated enough to make such a comment. The Jag matches the V hp for hp, lb/ft for lb/ft, curve for curve...and then trumps it when it comes to luxury. I think Automobile did a comparison between the two and said the Jag is for the country club set and the V is for the bad boys. The same, just different characters.



I'll take the "V" each, any and every day, even with a little rear noise...

I'll take the V too... with a little noise, not the marching band in the back seat!


If you want a nice, quite, soft riding old man car, buy a Lexus. I don't think any of us buy these cars for that kind of ride. We buy them for the pure power and because it is the hottest 4 door car on the road. Any very high HP car is going to have mechanical issues, live with it. Be happy and thankful you have the opportunity drive such a car each and every day.

OK, the V is NOT the hottest 4 door car on the road. It's a good value for the money, but if you believe we own the hottest sport sedan on the road, you are either deeply in love (I've been there) or you have low standards. Unfortunately it probably is arguably one of the hottest American sedans on the road, but that's another story. I'm happy and thankful for my life in general, but I won't use that to excuse GM for poor engineering in a $50K car. GM should be happy and thankful I'm giving them my hard earned money and give me a product that works right!

EDIT: My bad. If by "hottest", you mean fastest, then maybe you make a point. It is one of the fastest sedans on the road, but to me that means nothing in itself if the rear end is screaming and cheap looking plastic interior parts, etc..

rand49er
10-23-07, 09:07 PM
Let's say that Ford marketed your Focus as a miserly gas sipper that will get a class-leading 35-45 mpg. That level of fuel efficiency is what sold you on the car. In fact, you are willing to pay a premium price for those numbers. Let's say $50,000. After all, you're in it for the environment, baby!

Reality, it turns out, is more like 15 or 20 mpg. If you are skillful.

You learn from an internet tree hugger forum that your Focus is actually capable of those numbers but you will need to make a few small adjustments to do it and it will probably void your new car warranty.

Deactivate two cylinders, remove the water pump belt, and give the ECM an extremely lean tune. Now inflate your tires to 70psi and remove the passenger seats from the car. These changes ("mods", we'll call them) severely shorten the life of the engine and tires but they are your best bet to obtain the fuel efficiency you dream of. (By the way, these mods and your attempt to duplicate the marketing numbers will be construed as abuse by the same friendly neighborhood Ford dealer that talked you into buying that righteous eco-ride)

Are we still happy?What the hell are you talkin' about? :confused:

For your information, I bought it used and get between 31-34 MPG from each and every tank. AND, I have averaged just a shade under 21 MPG on my V for 37k miles. So, :thehand:.

AirCav
10-23-07, 09:28 PM
For your information, I bought it used and get between 31-34 MPG from each and every tank. AND, I have averaged just a shade under 21 MPG on my V for 37k miles.

Never mind.