: Consumer Reports rankings



Seattle CTS-V
10-17-07, 02:18 PM
Caddy ranked below average. I bet my CTS-V alone dragged Cadillac down a few notches :)

Page down for the comparison table...

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/Advice/ToyotaIsSlippingConsumerReportsSays.aspx

P-Funk
10-17-07, 05:08 PM
I put no stock in anything Consumer Reports says. Haven't paid attention to them for at least 10 years, and won't for the forseeable future.

SLPR 6.0L
10-17-07, 05:15 PM
I put no stock in anything Consumer Reports says. Haven't paid attention to them for at least 10 years, and won't for the forseeable future.

ditto

rand49er
10-17-07, 05:33 PM
I put no stock in anything Consumer Reports says. Haven't paid attention to them for at least 10 years, and won't for the forseeable future.:yeah: Let 'em all get into their Toyotas and drive into the ocean.

As for Cadillac's repair rates, I bet the V is definitely NOT one of the better vehicles out there. But, you know what? After a couple of difs and a clutch pedal return spring, I think my car is all set now and I don't care what CR says. :p

Keys8541
10-17-07, 05:41 PM
yeah, well... this car isnt a camry, which im sure got high rankings as well as the accord.

fredcook
10-17-07, 10:07 PM
I put no stock in anything Consumer Reports says. Haven't paid attention to them for at least 10 years, and won't for the forseeable future.


Same here... ever since (many years ago) they ranked GM pickups three notches higher in dependability than Chevy trucks. Except for the grill and steering wheel, they're identical... same assembly line, same crew building them... so how can one be any more or less dependable than the other? Whatever...

Back to the thread... Toyota always seems to outrank GM at Consumer Reports. Yet... GM sells twice the units as Toyota.

2004 U.S. Sales
GM = 4,454,386
Toyota = 2,260,296

Hmmm...

rand49er
10-18-07, 09:19 AM
Same here... ever since (many years ago) they ranked GM pickups three notches higher in dependability than Chevy trucks. Except for the grill and steering wheel, they're identical... same assembly line, same crew building them... so how can one be any more or less dependable than the other? Whatever...As a more current example, look at the Toyota Matrix compared to the Pontiac Vibe. Same vehicle except for some sheetmetal, both built on the same assembly line in Canada, YET they rate the Matrix above the Vibe. Unbiased baloney.

Bunch of Naderites. :annoyed:

onebadcad
10-18-07, 12:48 PM
I like this list better: http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=buy&subject=most_depend&story=topDependBrd&referer=advice

The only thing that matters to me is how is my V doing today.

Seattle CTS-V
10-18-07, 01:55 PM
yeah, well... this car isnt a camry, which im sure got high rankings as well as the accord.


I love your avatar. Which one is your daughter? Oh, so wrong...

Luna.
10-19-07, 01:54 AM
I find all this hatred for Consumer Reports rather interesting.

What--do you guys believe that they are manipulating the data or something?? :confused:

What's even more interesting is that some of the people/owners on this forum have complained vehemently about the reliability of this car, yet when Consumer Reports ranks the car below average, they are full of it?? :suspect:

rand49er
10-19-07, 07:32 AM
I find all this hatred for Consumer Reports rather interesting.

What--do you guys believe that they are manipulating the data or something?? :confused:

What's even more interesting is that some of the people/owners on this forum have complained vehemently about the reliability of this car, yet when Consumer Reports ranks the car below average, they are full of it?? :suspect:A certain amount of the statements here are certainly sprinkled with emotion and subjectivity. But, I believe to my core that CR has an agenda.

As far as "manipulating the data" goes, look at the Matrix/Vibe ratings.

darkman
10-19-07, 08:06 AM
A certain amount of the statements here are certainly sprinkled with emotion and subjectivity. But, I believe to my core that CR has an agenda.

As far as "manipulating the data" goes, look at the Matrix/Vibe ratings.

I looked at the Matirx and Vibe ratings, which are the same car and CR gives them identical ratings. Did I miss something?

CIWS
10-19-07, 08:07 AM
As a more current example, look at the Toyota Matrix compared to the Pontiac Vibe. Same vehicle except for some sheetmetal, both built on the same assembly line in Canada, YET they rate the Matrix above the Vibe. Unbiased baloney.

Bunch of Naderites. :annoyed:


That's because the workers who put the toyota badges on the car get longer lunch and smoke breaks. This has been shown to significantly contribute to better worker production.



;)



J.D. Power ranks Cadillac #3 over a 3 year period, and Lexus and Buick number one. I find it kinda "funny" they both agree Buick is ranking high, but differ sooo greatly on Cadillac. :cookoo:

fredcook
10-19-07, 08:13 AM
I find all this hatred for Consumer Reports rather interesting.

What--do you guys believe that they are manipulating the data or something?? :confused:

What's even more interesting is that some of the people/owners on this forum have complained vehemently about the reliability of this car, yet when Consumer Reports ranks the car below average, they are full of it?? :suspect:

Not hatred, just against incomplete data. CR reports what consumers say. Not sure about others, but I don't limit this feeling to Consumer Reports. Unless said consumer has experience with ALL products, I don't think their opinion is necessarily useful (complete).

For example (JUST an example)... Let's say CR says "8 out of 10 Honda owners would only choose another Honda". Well, that sounds great, and certainly sounds like Honda is hands down the #1 car. But what is the likelihood of those 10 having owned all makes of cars? Next to nil. Three of them may have only owned Yugos prior to the Honda. Another two had a 1979 Pinto as their last car. The rest may have never owned anything but a Honda. Get my point?

Like I said earlier... Many years ago, CR reported that GM trucks were more dependable than Chevy trucks (again, based on consumer input). I find that hard to believe since they are identical trucks, except for grills and decals.

So to address your comment, I guess the distrust for CR isn't really toward CR, it's toward the consumers that participate (provide data) in their polls.

darkman
10-19-07, 08:34 AM
Not hatred, just against incomplete data. CR reports what consumers say. Not sure about others, but I don't limit this feeling to Consumer Reports. Unless said consumer has experience with ALL products, I don't think their opinion is necessarily useful (complete).

For example (JUST an example)... Let's say CR says "8 out of 10 Honda owners would only choose another Honda". Well, that sounds great, and certainly sounds like Honda is hands down the #1 car. But what is the likelihood of those 10 having owned all makes of cars? Next to nil. Three of them may have only owned Yugos prior to the Honda. Another two had a 1979 Pinto as their last car. The rest may have never owned anything but a Honda. Get my point?

Like I said earlier... Many years ago, CR reported that GM trucks were more dependable than Chevy trucks (again, based on consumer input). I find that hard to believe since they are identical trucks, except for grills and decals.

So to address your comment, I guess the distrust for CR isn't really toward CR, it's toward the consumers that participate (provide data) in their polls.

I agree the problem often lies in the data, not with the data collector. Tire Rack tire ratings, for example, suffer from the same infirmity - unfiltered or incomplete consumer input. You can have some consumers reporting very low mileage on the same tire that other consumers report high mileage. There are just too many variables, such as driving style and wheel alignment, to give equal weight to both reports.

CIWS
10-19-07, 08:41 AM
Tire Rack tire ratings, for example, suffer from the same infirmity - unfiltered or incomplete consumer input.

"These tires are great ! They hold the road like glue and are much better than my last set of tires that only lasted 15,000 miles. Wet traction is excellent and I definately recommend them to anyone"

Car Make - Toyota Prius

Mileage driven on tires - 200

:histeric:

fredcook
10-19-07, 08:48 AM
"These tires are great ! They hold the road like glue and are much better than my last set of tires that only lasted 15,000 miles. Wet traction is excellent and I definately recommend them to anyone"

Car Make - Toyota Prius

Mileage driven on tires - 200

:histeric:

... and the last tires they had were studded snow tires being driven in Arizona...

P-Funk
10-19-07, 11:12 AM
I find all this hatred for Consumer Reports rather interesting.

What--do you guys believe that they are manipulating the data or something?? :confused:

What's even more interesting is that some of the people/owners on this forum have complained vehemently about the reliability of this car, yet when Consumer Reports ranks the car below average, they are full of it?? :suspect:

My dislike (or more accurately lack of respect) for Consumer Reports has nothing to do with this report. Back when I actually looked at their rankings as having some sort of significance, my experiences never seemed to jive with what they reported.
But as an example of why I still don't pay attention to them, they admit that they've been automatically giving a recommendation for Toyota's without having any data. Also, there's no reason for me to believe that they haven't manipulated/ignored other data before or currently.

MidLifeinMI
10-19-07, 11:39 AM
As a more current example, look at the Toyota Matrix compared to the Pontiac Vibe. Same vehicle except for some sheetmetal, both built on the same assembly line in Canada, YET they rate the Matrix above the Vibe. Unbiased baloney.

Bunch of Naderites. :annoyed:

:nono:Need to do a little more research - the Vibe (and Toyota Corolla) are built at NUMMI in Kalifornia; the Matrix is built in Canada. I would believe a difference in ratings in this case. BTW, we've had a Vibe for 5 years & almost 70K miles, and the only (ONLY) trouble we've had is some backlights on radio buttons have burned out. It's a GREAT car.

StuJac
10-19-07, 11:48 AM
I put no stock in anything Consumer Reports says. Haven't paid attention to them for at least 10 years, and won't for the forseeable future.

I absolutely agree with this. I used to subscribe and would only buy after researching on Consumer Reports but have found that the only people who respond to them now are people with complaints. I'm on my 3rd DeVille and have loved every one of them, none more than my current 03. They can take their biased ratings and shove them up their arse.

darkman
10-19-07, 11:53 AM
:nono:Need to do a little more research - the Vibe (and Toyota Corolla) are built at NUMMI in Kalifornia; the Matrix is built in Canada. I would believe a difference in ratings in this case. BTW, we've had a Vibe for 5 years & almost 70K miles, and the only (ONLY) trouble we've had is some backlights on radio buttons have burned out. It's a GREAT car.

I am a CR subscriber and my reading of the CR detailed online ratings is identical for these two cars (both score 66 in a category for which the top score is 86). I am unable to find where CR has rated one over the other.

MidLifeinMI
10-19-07, 12:02 PM
I am a CR subscriber and my reading of the CR detailed online ratings is identical for these two cars (both score 66 in a category for which the top score is 86). I am unable to find where CR has rated one over the other.

I think my comment may have misled you - I was not disputing that the CR rankings were the same; just commenting to the OP that if they were different, it would be understandable due to them being built in different plants. Sorry for the confusion.

rand49er
10-19-07, 12:26 PM
I looked at the Matirx and Vibe ratings, which are the same car and CR gives them identical ratings. Did I miss something?I looked at one issue (2 yrs old) and you're right. However, I DID indeed see this at one point ... I did ... I did ... :banghead: ... you must believe me!

BUT, another thing that bugs me is the way they described the seatbelt on the CTS-V. They found it difficult to use. IMHO, it's one of those what-ever-you-get-used-to things. My seatbelt doesn't bother me in the slightest now that I'm used to it in the car. CR didn't see fit to mention that, however, and used it as something negative to say. My stepson's Honda CR-V has the gear selector on the dashboard. When I first saw it, I thought, "what an odd place to put it" ... I wouldn't be used to that. However, I'm sure it's again one of those what-ever-you-get-used-to things. CR made no mention of the, IMO, odd location. I must confess ignorance here as other vehicles may have the shifter located there, but I'm not aware of it if that's the case.

Yeah, some of this is most certainly venting, but I'm resolute in my opinion about CR having a bias.

darkman
10-19-07, 12:41 PM
I looked at one issue (2 yrs old) and you're right. However, I DID indeed see this at one point ... I did ... I did ... :banghead: ... you must believe me!

BUT, another thing that bugs me is the way they described the seatbelt on the CTS-V. They found it difficult to use. IMHO, it's one of those what-ever-you-get-used-to things. My seatbelt doesn't bother me in the slightest now that I'm used to it in the car. CR didn't see fit to mention that, however, and used it as something negative to say. My stepson's Honda CR-V has the gear selector on the dashboard. When I first saw it, I thought, "what an odd place to put it" ... I wouldn't be used to that. However, I'm sure it's again one of those what-ever-you-get-used-to things. CR made no mention of the, IMO, odd location. I must confess ignorance here as other vehicles may have the shifter located there, but I'm not aware of it if that's the case.

Yeah, some of this is most certainly venting, but I'm resolute in my opinion about CR having a bias.

Thanks for the clarification. Eventhough I subscribe to CR I do not accept, much less defend, everything they say. In fact, I only subscribe to CR to get info on appliances such as washing machines and toasters--not cars.