: Lose Car over 50 over limit



Caddyshack100
10-06-07, 09:05 PM
A warning to anyone wanting to come to Ontario, including our American cousins, have an eye, if you are caught going more than 50kph (27mph) over the speed limit, you will lose your licence for seven days and have your car impounded for the same period, and pay up to $10,000 in fines. Ouch... the cops have been told not to give anybody a break, and they can even put it down as racing or dangerous driving, George Orwell anyone. Remember Speed does not kill. Stopping suddenly does.

CadillacSTS42005
10-07-07, 07:31 PM
woah
thats total bull
thanks for the heads up

racebyu
11-01-07, 09:19 PM
Everyone better stay off the gas and that 50km limit as they are pulling cars in and $$$ like crazy.
Speed does not kill, unsafe lane changes, tailgating, running red lights and in general being an ass does!




-What happens when you cannot drive your Vette in the winter?
-You buy a Cadillac with a Vette motor in it for a winter ride!

lukky4u
11-01-07, 11:59 PM
man that is so harsh!

Jon
11-02-07, 09:34 PM
Everyone better stay off the gas and that 50km limit as they are pulling cars in and $$$ like crazy.
Speed does not kill, unsafe lane changes, tailgating, running red lights and in general being an ass does!




-What happens when you cannot drive your Vette in the winter?
-You buy a Cadillac with a Vette motor in it for a winter ride!
Oh hell no, I'm not driving my V in the winter.

Did ya get my PM by any chance? :)

racebyu
11-02-07, 09:59 PM
Ya thanks for the Pm, I will email you back.
Sorry to say mine is a winter driver, or fall and early spring, part summer if more then 4 seats are needed.
It can actually hold a little more then my Vette.

mgscustomtune
02-18-08, 01:22 PM
Yes that new law does suck is anyone running a radar jammer and if so what you all using l am looking to get one.

eyekandyboats.inc
02-23-08, 10:53 AM
i was doing 160 on the hi way.
and the cop pulled me over.
He said "You know you really shouldn't be doing this" and then walked back to his cruiser and drove off
thats it just those words

Caddyshack100
02-24-08, 02:21 PM
He must of been going off shift or had another more important call, (or call of nature), You are sooo lucky, give that cop a box of Timbits next time you see him, and another thing, ever notice that beside every cop sitting on the side of the road, there are two or three towtrucks just hovering.

mgscustomtune
03-18-08, 11:09 PM
I was pulling my D Max and trailer with the Mobile Dyno Inside on the 401 around Windsor whem l was pulled over at 145klm the way he told me to get over l thought o crap. Then he walked back to the truck asked me to open the trailer. I did he saw the dyno inside and said o thats what a dyno is. About 30 sec went by he looked at me and said cool have a nice day and drove off. Maybe he was looking for a free pull lol

Murphyg
04-11-08, 11:22 PM
There is a good reason behind that new law.
Orwellian doesnt even come into the picture. No one is attempting to take away your cars (books). No one is attempting to control your thoughts or practices. There is no attempt at controlling the aspects of individual freedoms.

It is all about safety towards the general public.
Some may believe it may be harsh.
But there is a much larger reality behind the decision in passing that law.

It has to do with the true reality and harshness of the unnecessary deaths that have become a regular fixture on the roads here.
Not necessarily to curb highway speeds.
But to attempt to stop the continually rising rate of unnecessary deaths because of hazardous speeds on other roads.

It got to the point that too too many were dying because of (blatantly obvious) excessive speeds and total disregard of safe driving on all the provinces "roads".

Street racing was/had become a serious problem. Until that law was passed.....one would hear in the news most every day about another death because of someone racing.
It was almost an everyday thing.
Passengers in back of taxi killed when hit by driver doing 120 in 70 zone ! Racing suspected !
Couple killed making turn in intersection by (suspected) racer running red light. Believed to be doing 150 in 60 zone !

And it goes on and on.....It was an every day thing. Every day someone was dying because of irresponsible racing all over the city.

It wasnt until I read this thread, did I realize that no longer are the daily headlines again and again reporting deaths because of street racing etc......
Obviously it has made a difference. And I see that as a good thing.

To think that taking someones car away for doing 100 in a 50 zone is harsh....thats baffling ???
The fact that anyone would want to do 100 in a 50 zone is what is really harsh !!!!!

For those that say that speed doesnt kill. Should check your facts. It may not always kill the one that is doing the speeding.
But more often than not. When it does kill. It kills someone that is minding there own business. May it be a passenger in the speeding vehicle.....or your mother on her way home from shopping.

The reason that law was passed was because there were too too many deaths occurring on our streets.

BTW: Those in PA and NY should know. Our top highway speed limits here, are higher than there anyways. So when going our limits, you are probably at the max that would be allowed for yous, before getting nervous of a ticket. And you believe its wrong to want to go even faster than that and not be penalized even harder !!!!
Thats harsh.....and....total bull.... I believe were the comments.......Will mention as well seein as Im almost there anyways.
There were actually 2 incidents last year, that I recall, regarding Americans speeding on our roads that killed people.
One involved a women going over 50 than our limit hitting a car on the shoulder with its hazard lights on.
She hit it so hard that she killed the man in the car waiting for assistance. As well as killing her own father in the passenger side of her car.
The other one was a couple of teens that came up here and took out another vehicle while racing in the city streets. Death again etc......But lo and behold the ones racing/speeding survived.........

Innocents were dying every day here. And since that law was passed the headlines have changed. The unnecessary deaths have decreased exponentially.
If passing a law that 50 over the limit will result in charges related to racing. And that law alters the number of deaths of Mothers, Fathers, and or there children......Which it has clearly done...
Where is the negative in that ?????????????????????????????????

I dont see anything harsh about that. And certainally not Orwillian.
Getting your car taken away for a week and possibly being fined very very large for doing 50 over sucks.
But killing someone because of being reckless and inconsiderate towards the rest of society. Because of thinking that the rules of society dont pertain to you......I call that a waste of skin and water and something that is not needed.
Why dont we just scrap that law. And if you drive over the limits. If racing and being irresponsible and kill some one. Then we put a bullet in your brain ???????????

Actually couldnt do that. Anyone know why ???
Cause THAT would be Orwellian.

The less families and lives being destroyed the better.
And if taking a car away for going over 50 prevents at least one child or parent from dying. Then Im for It.

Jon
04-12-08, 07:39 PM
It has to do with the true reality and harshness of the unnecessary deaths that have become a regular fixture on the roads here.
Not necessarily to curb highway speeds.
But to attempt to stop the continually rising rate of unnecessary deaths because of hazardous speeds on other roads.

It got to the point that too too many were dying because of (blatantly obvious) excessive speeds and total disregard of safe driving on all the provinces "roads".

Street racing was/had become a serious problem. Until that law was passed.....one would hear in the news most every day about another death because of someone racing.
It was almost an everyday thing.
Passengers in back of taxi killed when hit by driver doing 120 in 70 zone ! Racing suspected !
Couple killed making turn in intersection by (suspected) racer running red light. Believed to be doing 150 in 60 zone !


That's a load of crap. Excessive speeds themselves don't cause accidents. It's stupid people who are unattentive that result in devestating accidents.

Your 2 examples are both cases where people turned IN FRONT OF SPEEDING CARS. If you're stupid enough to turn in front of 2 speeding cars you deserve to be killed. Accidents like these happen ALL the time. Only the ones that involve suspected street racing make the news because it's good for the media.

Speed is only a small part of the problem. It's people not being able to obey the right of way, and feeling the need to cut out in traffic in front of other oncoming cars. For some reason they feel these other cars should slow down for them to make a left turn. Everytime I'm going straight and some idiot makes a turn in front of me causing me to slam on my brakes I tell myself, "one day they're gonna get killed doing this." And they do. Well deserved too.

"Couple killed making turn in intersection by (suspected) racer running red light. Believed to be doing 150 in 60 zone !"

Happened 5 minutes from my house. You're worse than the media. Do you know ANYTHING about this story?

80 zone, not 60. The "150km/h" was quoted by witnesses who wanted to play cop. Accident report ended up showing it was about 115km/h or so. I drive by this area a couple times a week. It is a STRAIGHT road. Couple was making a left turn. 2 oncoming cars. There's no way they didn't see them. They were just stupid.

Oh wait, here's the best part. The driver that turned in front of the 2 "racing" cars was DRUNK OFF HIS ASS. OVER 2 times the legal limit. Why didn't you put that in your post? Is it because you support drunk driving or you just simply didn't know the facts?



To think that taking someones car away for doing 100 in a 50 zone is harsh....thats baffling ???
The fact that anyone would want to do 100 in a 50 zone is what is really harsh !!!!!

100 in a 50 is stupid. 150 in a 100 zone can be justified. Or here's a better one. There's a highway in Brampton that ends and turns into a normal 2 or 3 lane highway. Cops LOVE to sit at the end of the highway with a line of tow trucks waiting for unsuspecting drivers that aren't aware of the speed limit change. Gee, I wonder if they're all concerned with safety. You'd be absolutely stupid to believe that they were.


For those that say that speed doesnt kill. Should check your facts. It may not always kill the one that is doing the speeding.
But more often than not. When it does kill. It kills someone that is minding there own business. May it be a passenger in the speeding vehicle.....or your mother on her way home from shopping.

The reason that law was passed was because there were too too many deaths occurring on our streets.


I got a better idea. You check yours. The % of car accidents related to speed compared to anything else is VERY small.

And the biggest problem with this law isn't the 50 over part. It's the "stunting" part.

Aggressive lane changes, squealing tires, almost anything can be considered "stunting". This is SOLEY up to the officer's discretion. They can impound your car if you make a lane change and they call it "aggressive".

So let's see... Young teenager, nice car, jealous cop. If I make a lane change that's even questionable, the cop can take my car. It's his word against mine, and even if I'm found innocent in court, my car's already been taken for a week, and I have the impound fines to pay.

Middle aged lady driving a Camry accidentally squeals her tires. Cop won't care, it's an accident. I accidentally do the same thing in my car and I guarantee you I'm in the back of a cruiser watching my car get towed.

That's the problem. No one's arguing 100 in a 50 zone should be ok.

Caddyshack100
04-12-08, 10:45 PM
Speeding is really a red herring and its the easiest for the police to deal with as they have the role of Tax collector. MurphyG, all the points you raised have a great deal of value to them, However rather than looking at the speeding and racing and stunt driving issue, it may be wiser to look at what is causing this? First off, speed limits on our roads are too low, people have been voting with their right foot for decades. That means the 400 series as well as the rural roads, 130 on the main and 100 on the rural would be a good place to start. We also need to recognize that society in general has changed.. The 'Just in Time' system in place has caused more mayhem and rushing than anything else in our recent history, This is what causes the trucks to speed like maniacs to get their loads delivered on time, if not then they do not get paid, pretty good motivation. In Brampton a gravel truck tore through an intersection just sounding his horn, reason, he was trying to make a living, The real reason, Airport road has become a traffic light nightmare, that combined with lower speed limits have turned this fellows life into a nightmare. This was not taking away from those poor people who he hit but as with everything, there are always two sides to everything. Now of course the cops will wait there so they can nab people, this on a 6 lane road with a 60 limit. We also need to have a set standard for Stop signs, and speed limits throughout the province, Drive through Orr lake on hwy 93 and ask yourself why it has a 50 limit, no reason for it, political only, Stop signs have sprouted all over, not for safety sake, just for NIMBY's who do not want people travelling on their arterial roads, not cul de sacs, We have to stop putting schools on main roads, it is not safe for the little ones to be so near a highway, Cookstown and Hillsdale, and on Hwy 88 good examples of where not to put schools, Essa road coming into Barrie, A Timothy Christian School decided to squat and now we are cursed with a 40 limit through there, Ardagh road in Barrie, another silly design, this has now got 4 lanes and a 50 limit rather than the 80 it once had, Madness. We also have to realize that for some strange reason, people have declared war on the car, this in a country that is not made for public transit. Ironically, Toronto has a higher limit on its main streets than everybody else, 60 versus 50. Once we get everything in proper perspective and every community is online then we can look for some solutions.

Jon
04-12-08, 10:50 PM
Speeding is really a red herring and its the easiest for the police to deal with as they have the role of Tax collector. MurphyG, all the points you raised have a great deal of value to them, However rather than looking at the speeding and racing and stunt driving issue, it may be wiser to look at what is causing this? First off, speed limits on our roads are too low, people have been voting with their right foot for decades. That means the 400 series as well as the rural roads, 130 on the main and 100 on the rural would be a good place to start. We also need to recognize that society in general has changed.. The 'Just in Time' system in place has caused more mayhem and rushing than anything else in our recent history, This is what causes the trucks to speed like maniacs to get their loads delivered on time, if not then they do not get paid, pretty good motivation. In Brampton a gravel truck tore through an intersection just sounding his horn, reason, he was trying to make a living, The real reason, Airport road has become a traffic light nightmare, that combined with lower speed limits have turned this fellows life into a nightmare. This was not taking away from those poor people who he hit but as with everything, there are always two sides to everything. Now of course the cops will wait there so they can nab people, this on a 6 lane road with a 60 limit. We also need to have a set standard for Stop signs, and speed limits throughout the province, Drive through Orr lake on hwy 93 and ask yourself why it has a 50 limit, no reason for it, political only, Stop signs have sprouted all over, not for safety sake, just for NIMBY's who do not want people travelling on their arterial roads, not cul de sacs, We have to stop putting schools on main roads, it is not safe for the little ones to be so near a highway, Cookstown and Hillsdale, and on Hwy 88 good examples of where not to put schools, Essa road coming into Barrie, A Timothy Christian School decided to squat and now we are cursed with a 40 limit through there, Ardagh road in Barrie, another silly design, this has now got 4 lanes and a 50 limit rather than the 80 it once had, Madness. We also have to realize that for some strange reason, people have declared war on the car, this in a country that is not made for public transit. Ironically, Toronto has a higher limit on its main streets than everybody else, 60 versus 50. Once we get everything in proper perspective and every community is online then we can look for some solutions.
Again... The people who got hit in that truck accident appear to be completely innocent according to most people. The big dump truck and the girl that got hit were going opposite directions. If the dump truck had a red, so did the girl.

It's a big dump truck... Not easy to stop. How you don't see a big dump truck, and then decide to drive out in front of one is a mystery to me. Would someone step onto a street and walk in front of a moving car? Why do they do that in a car? Don't tell me they can't judge that the dump truck can't stop. How can someone who can't judge the speed/intentions of another vehicle obtain a driver's license?

That's where the problem lies. There are way too many clueless people on the streets.

And the media just loves to blow shit outta proportion. They went on and on about how the girl was a student at York university, blah blah blah. It's not relevant. What she does and who she is has nothing to do with how the accident happened.

Same with the couple that got flattened while making a left turn. Blah blah blah. One daughter left behind. What does that have to do with the cause/fault of the accident? Nothing. But the media uses it to mess with the public to get these stupid laws passed. THEN, they VERY QUIETLY release the info. that the father who was killed was drunk off his ass by over 2x the legal amount.

And then you guys all fall into it screaming street racing this street racing that.

Caddyshack100
04-12-08, 10:59 PM
Jon, its my understanding that the people who were killed, were making a left turn on a green light, the gravel truck drove through a red light with his horn blaring, correct me if I am wrong here.

Jon
04-12-08, 11:06 PM
Jon, its my understanding that the people who were killed, were making a left turn on a green light, the gravel truck drove through a red light with his horn blaring, correct me if I am wrong here.
They were facing opposite directions. Dump truck was going straight and the girl in the Civic (I think it was a Civic) was going the opposite direction but making a left turn in front of the dump truck's path.

These directions are probably not accurate, but it's an example:

Dump truck going South.
Civic facing North but making a left turn (so turning to the West.)

Light was probably going from Yellow to Red. Dump truck is freakin big and heavy so it couldn't stop. Girl in Civic decided to "race" the dump truck across the intersection (or just didn't see it, but how could she not hear it?) and got crushed.


Edit: Here


The Brampton sisters died just days apart after being struck by a southbound dump truck while they waited in the intersection to make a left-hand turn, to head west on Mayfield Road.
http://www.mycaledon.ca/news/article/34917

Murphyg
04-15-08, 08:47 PM
That's a load of crap. Excessive speeds themselves don't cause accidents. It's stupid people who are unattentive that result in devestating accidents.

Its not a load of crap. Stupid inattentive people that are speeding create devastating accidents.


Your 2 examples are both cases where people turned IN FRONT OF SPEEDING CARS. If you're stupid enough to turn in front of 2 speeding cars you deserve to be killed. Accidents like these happen ALL the time. Only the ones that involve suspected street racing make the news because it's good for the media.

Im sure you would change your tune if your Mother, Brother, Sister, Father, Any one close to you for that matter; Got hit and killed by someone whom was excessively speeding. Would you and could you truly go through life believing that your Wife, Girlfriend, your infant child (that wasnt driving), "deserved" to be killed ? Do you truly believe that someone killed by another while ignoring the laws that are set for all off society is not responsible ? That the ones that are killed actually deserved it ??????

If Anything In This Thread Is Harsh.....That Is !!!!!


Speed is only a small part of the problem. It's people not being able to obey the right of way, and feeling the need to cut out in traffic in front of other oncoming cars. For some reason they feel these other cars should slow down for them to make a left turn. Everytime I'm going straight and some idiot makes a turn in front of me causing me to slam on my brakes I tell myself, "one day they're gonna get killed doing this." And they do. Well deserved too.

You have a problem with others that dont want to obey traffic laws. IE: Obeying the right of way.
But if you want to disobey the traffic law about speeding then that should be ok :hmm:
Basically everyone should be specifically looking out for you, because you are special and the laws shouldnt refer to you ?


"Couple killed making turn in intersection by (suspected) racer running red light. Believed to be doing 150 in 60 zone !"

Happened 5 minutes from my house. You're worse than the media. Do you know ANYTHING about this story?

Yes I do.
I know that people in one vehicle were killed by someone in another that was racing. Sorry I didnt get the speed limits correct. I was just using as example. I did say "believed". BTW Were you a witness ?
Should also mention. Is a lot more difficult for accident investigators to gauge speed now a days. Antilock brakes reduce skid marks. I remember when they were quite adamant about the speeds. They never used to say that someone was going "about"...
And if you werent a witness where did you get your facts from ? Was it from the media by chance ? Or was it from a friend of a friend that knew some one.........etc.....Please dont try to say that you personally went out of your way to retrieve your own copy of the police report.


80 zone, not 60. The "150km/h" was quoted by witnesses who wanted to play cop. Accident report ended up showing it was about 115km/h or so. I drive by this area a couple times a week. It is a STRAIGHT road. Couple was making a left turn. 2 oncoming cars. There's no way they didn't see them. They were just stupid.

Oh wait, here's the best part. The driver that turned in front of the 2 "racing" cars was DRUNK OFF HIS ASS. OVER 2 times the legal limit. Why didn't you put that in your post? Is it because you support drunk driving or you just simply didn't know the facts?

I was aware the father/husband was impaired. I didnt think he was as much over the limit as you state though. But I guess you got that from the media. I neglected to add that to my post because we are discussing the law introduced to prevent deaths due to negligent racers. The wife wasnt driving. But she is still dead. They were hit by a vehicle that was involved in racing on a public road.
Im guessing, (by the way you are going with this), if any one that was involved in the racing were killed, Then you would have been all over the driver of the other vehicle as being a fault ?
It appears you are are one of those that wants to pick and choose the laws that suit you ? Is that correct ? Screw the rest of society if it doesnt suit your own delusions of grandeurs ?
Only asking is all !
Remember. You said your self. There are a lot of stupid and inattentive people out there. So do you really think it would be right to abolish laws and raise limits for the likes of the few that believe they are so much better drivers than the rest ? Would it be a good idea to let allow the rest of the inattentive idiots operate vehicles in such a way when they aren't even capable of doing it safely now ?

LMFAO !!!!


100 in a 50 is stupid. 150 in a 100 zone can be justified. Or here's a better one. There's a highway in Brampton that ends and turns into a normal 2 or 3 lane highway. Cops LOVE to sit .............................

Im not going to get into the cop thing or the tax thing for that matter. Thats not what this thread is about. A least I didnt see it that way. The law was passed because of excessive racing on our streets. And since the law was passed that has decreased. This summer though......well.... time will tell.
I dont though, see why you have a problem with 100 in a 50 zone. Especially if you have a problem with 150 in a 100 zone ?
Is it because that much speed in a 50 zone could kill someone ?? Is it because the stupid and inattentive pedestrians dont deserve to be killed when they walk into the intersection to cross the road and get hit by a racer.
Which has also happened. Which is another reason as to why the law was passed.
The law was passed because of too many people dying due to the result of "racing" on public roads.

If you want to be pissed off about it. Be pissed off at the irresponsible, self serving, inconsiderate individuals, that believe public roads are there to be used as there own personal play ground. Blame them. Dont blame the numerous greaving familys that have decided that enough is enough and dont want to see anyone else go through the same loss that they have.
I only had a few examples there. One of them the exact facts may have been off. But that doesnt change the reasoning behind why the law was passed. It was getting out of control and thats that.


I got a better idea. You check yours. The % of car accidents related to speed compared to anything else is VERY small.
But what about Deaths ? I didnt think I was talking about accidents per say. I thought I was talking about deaths. The main reason as to the passing of the law


And the biggest problem with this law isn't the 50 over part. It's the "stunting" part.

Aggressive lane changes, squealing tires, almost anything can be considered "stunting". This is SOLEY up to the officer's discretion. They can impound your car if you make a lane change and they call it "aggressive".

So let's see... Young teenager, nice car, jealous cop. If I make a lane change that's even questionable, the cop can take my car. It's his word against mine, and even if I'm found innocent in court, my car's already been taken for a week, and I have the impound fines to pay.

If its obvious its obvious !
Unbelievable. Another freakin kid that thinks cops cant afford nice cars too. Is that what this is all about ? Cops jealous of your car ?
Cops have a problem with kids in nice cars? The Government is against you because of your car ?

I really though you were serious until you said , "Young teenager, nice car, jealous cop......"

You really believe a cop cant afford , or doesn't/hasn't ever owned, a nice car ? That adolescent holier than though attitude has been happening since at least the 50s. Cops dont like kids ! And especially dont like kids in nice cars ! LMAO !!!! Cops were kids too at one time LOL ! And so were machinist, and office workers, and bricklayers, and plumbers. We all just eventually grow up and understand.
Give it a few years. And if you really are as responsible as you believe you are, then come back and answer this thread with wide open adult eyes.


................No one's arguing 100 in a 50 zone should be ok.
Is the reason why the law was passed. Because the excessive speed "And Racing" was becoming a regular past time on "ALL" the roads.

Murphyg
04-15-08, 09:14 PM
............................However rather than looking at the speeding and racing and stunt driving issue, it may be wiser to look at what is causing this? First off, speed limits on our roads are too low, people have been voting with their right foot for decades. ..........

The cause of the law is the attempt to deter "RACING"

That is why the law was passed. I felt that that is what this thread was addressing. Street racing was beginning to be a huge problem.

The speed limits on our roads have nothing to do with that !

Sure, many feel that our speed limits are too low as it is. But when you have those that use them as there own drag strips, they are not helping in the crusade to raise them !

Public roads are not made for people to be "RACING" each other. They are made for people to commute.
If you want to race someone then you go to a drag strip or race track. Sure they arent right down town or in your neighborhood. But they are here and are accessible for anyone that wants to "race/show off" there vehicle.

The progressive continuance of street racing is the reason for the 50 over law.
Like I said earlier. Dont blame the government. Blame the holier than though, do what I want where I want selfish irresponsible individuals that felt our public streets all theres to do what they will.

The facts in my first post may have been off a bit. I used those because they were the freshest in my mind. Im not about to attempt to dig up case after case of what was becoming a regular thing on our roads. But any one that lives here, has been paying attention to, and cares about whats been going on......will know that that is the reason as to why the law was passed.

It wasnt for the sole purpose of slowing down people on the highways.
It was to attempt to put an end to those that felt our streets were there own personal drag strips and race courses.

Blame them and those only !

Jon
04-15-08, 09:18 PM
Its not a load of crap. Stupid inattentive people that are speeding create devastating accidents.

Bullshit. What about stupid ass people who jump on the highway, do 60km/h on the merging lane and cut out in front of a car doing 100 without speeding up?




Im sure you would change your tune if your Mother, Brother, Sister, Father, Any one close to you for that matter; Got hit and killed by someone whom was excessively speeding. Would you and could you truly go through life believing that your Wife, Girlfriend, your infant child (that wasnt driving), "deserved" to be killed ? Do you truly believe that someone killed by another while ignoring the laws that are set for all off society is not responsible ? That the ones that are killed actually deserved it ??????

If Anything In This Thread Is Harsh.....That Is !!!!!


My girlfriend and sister KNOW they can't drive so they DON'T. If you can't fvcking drive, stay the fvck off the roads.

Yes, stupid people who do stupid things are going to get killed sometimes. So what? People die. You're not always going to be lucky and get away with it. If you want to be stupid and turn in front of 2 oncoming cars you're just trying to cheat death. Would YOU do that?






You have a problem with others that dont want to obey traffic laws. IE: Obeying the right of way.
But if you want to disobey the traffic law about speeding then that should be ok :hmm:
Basically everyone should be specifically looking out for you, because you are special and the laws shouldnt refer to you ?


Never said speeding was always "ok". My problem is people like you put the blame SOLELY on the people that were speeding.

Look, if the people who had the right of way weren't speeding, the accident may not have been as bad. Maybe a broken arm or something with no fatalities. However, if the people weren't so braindead to turn in front of oncoming traffic, the accident would not have happened in the first place.




I was aware the father/husband was impaired. I didnt think he was as much over the limit as you state though. But I guess you got that from the media. I neglected to add that to my post because we are discussing the law introduced to prevent deaths due to negligent racers. The wife wasnt driving. But she is still dead. They were hit by a vehicle that was involved in racing on a public road.
Im guessing, (by the way you are going with this), if any one that was involved in the racing were killed, Then you would have been all over the driver of the other vehicle as being a fault ?
It appears you are are one of those that wants to pick and choose the laws that suit you ? Is that correct ? Screw the rest of society if it doesnt suit your own delusions of grandeurs ?
Only asking is all !
Remember. You said your self. There are a lot of stupid and inattentive people out there. So do you really think it would be right to abolish laws and raise limits for the likes of the few that believe they are so much better drivers than the rest ? Would it be a good idea to let allow the rest of the inattentive idiots operate vehicles in such a way when they aren't even capable of doing it safely now ?

LMFAO !!!!

If you knew the father was impaired why didn't you mention it? I guess you're just like everybody else. Let's hide the fault of the "innocent dad" so the speeders look worse. The wife wasn't driving, but she's still dead. Yes, that is true. She's also just as stupid. Would YOU let someone who's drunk get behind the wheel of a car? Would YOU get into the car with them? If so then I suspect you will stop posting here soon and we'll never hear from you again.

Again. I'm not saying it's solely the drunk driver's fault. They share the responsibility. You don't seem to understand that.

I have no problem with the speed limits. No, I don't support raising them. There are too many idiots out there who can't even manage going 100 on the highway.

I just think Bill 203 is absolute braindead stupid. It violates the whole "innocent before proven guilty."




Im not going to get into the cop thing or the tax thing for that matter. Thats not what this thread is about. A least I didnt see it that way. The law was passed because of excessive racing on our streets. And since the law was passed that has decreased. This summer though......well.... time will tell.
I dont though, see why you have a problem with 100 in a 50 zone. Especially if you have a problem with 150 in a 100 zone ?
Is it because that much speed in a 50 zone could kill someone ?? Is it because the stupid and inattentive pedestrians dont deserve to be killed when they walk into the intersection to cross the road and get hit by a racer.
Which has also happened. Which is another reason as to why the law was passed.
The law was passed because of too many people dying due to the result of "racing" on public roads.


100 in a 50 is stupid because it's 2x the speed limit. 50 zones are usually in city limits where there are things to hit.

150 in a 100 can be completely justified. I used to drive between Waterloo and the GTA at night twice a week. On an empty highway there is absolutely no reason why I can't be going 150.


If you want to be pissed off about it. Be pissed off at the irresponsible, self serving, inconsiderate individuals, that believe public roads are there to be used as there own personal play ground. Blame them. Dont blame the numerous greaving familys that have decided that enough is enough and dont want to see anyone else go through the same loss that they have.
I only had a few examples there. One of them the exact facts may have been off. But that doesnt change the reasoning behind why the law was passed. It was getting out of control and thats that.


You're right. Let's grieve with the families of the drunk drivers. Hey, isn't DUI a criminal offense? Yes, yes it is. What about speeding? Nope. Hmmm, doesn't that tell you anything? DUI is a much worse crime.


But what about Deaths ? I didnt think I was talking about accidents per say. I thought I was talking about deaths. The main reason as to the passing of the law


The main reason this law was passed is because the media blew everything out of proportion and hid the facts about accidents. Now anyone who drives a fast/loud car is immediately a suspect.




If its obvious its obvious !
Unbelievable. Another freakin kid that thinks cops cant afford nice cars too. Is that what this is all about ? Cops jealous of your car ?
Cops have a problem with kids in nice cars? The Government is against you because of your car ?

I really though you were serious until you said , "Young teenager, nice car, jealous cop......"

You really believe a cop cant afford , or doesn't/hasn't ever owned, a nice car ? That adolescent holier than though attitude has been happening since at least the 50s. Cops dont like kids ! And especially dont like kids in nice cars ! LMAO !!!! Cops were kids too at one time LOL ! And so were machinist, and office workers, and bricklayers, and plumbers. We all just eventually grow up and understand.
Give it a few years. And if you really are as responsible as you believe you are, then come back and answer this thread with wide open adult eyes.


Is the reason why the law was passed. Because the excessive speed "And Racing" was becoming a regular past time on "ALL" the roads.


Right. I'm sure all these 25-30 year old cops in my neighbourhood all drive nice cars and aren't jealous of me at all.

Murphyg
04-15-08, 09:59 PM
Jon, its my understanding that the people who were killed, were making a left turn on a green light, the gravel truck drove through a red light with his horn blaring, correct me if I am wrong here.

Was a big article on that whole thing.
Dump Truck drivers that had worked there.
Am sure some would comment that it was the media that reported it. But anyways.....

Anyways.....past drivers telling how they had too....how bad it really is.....standard procedure to be flooring with a full load and hit the horn if the light went yellow. If you dont risk the lives of others by disobeying traffic laws then you dont make as much and or loose your job.

I see know way how doing that and killing someone in the process can be blamed on too low of speed limits.
It comes down to one thing and one thing only. Reckless and careless disrespect for the rules of the road.
If he didnt drive that way he may not make as much money each day. At the extreme worst he may have lost his job.
But are any of those scenarios a good enough excuse to possibly kill another person. (And in his case......"WAS" it a good enough excuse) !

Traffic laws are there for us all for a reason. And not one of us have the right to pick and chose to obey only the ones that we feel relate to us, and ignore the rest.

This thread started about warning U.S resident of the new 50 over law.
A very good thing to do. Am sure many, if not close to all, were not aware of this new law.
A very good heads up.

After a few replies, I thought to explain as to why the law was passed.
It then turned into an argument about whether or not speed kills. Who is responsible for what accident. Etc......
Some arguing most everything that Ive said........Except.....

Except what my original post was attempting to state.

My attempt to explain why such an (extreme by somes standards) law was passed.

Werther or not the reason for the passing of the law is acceptable and justified by all......that is the reason as to why it was passed.

Doesnt appear to be any argument as to my explanation to the reason why.
But sure a hell of a lot of arguments as to what kind of deaths are acceptable for whichever traffic law is ignored. :thepan:

Jon
04-15-08, 10:05 PM
After a few replies, I thought to explain as to why the law was passed.

That is why I have a problem with your arguement. Your justification of this law is from a couple stories where people turned in front of oncoming cars. And in 1 case the guy was really drunk.

Then you completely ignore the fault of the "victims" and blame the whole accident on speeding...

So this law is passed because the public knows half the facts.

Murphyg
04-15-08, 10:15 PM
.................................................. ..

Right. I'm sure all these 25-30 year old cops in my neighbourhood all drive nice cars and aren't jealous of me at all.

I clicked and the first thing I saw was this line. I havent even read the rest of your post yet.

You know maybe your right. Every single 25-30 year old cop in your neighborhood is sooooo sooooo jealous of your car.
There lives are so insignificant that they cant sleep at night because all they can think of is how badly they were you and had a car like yours.

I just dont know what to say :canttalk: That is just sooo freakin hilarious !

Oh! Oh! Oh! I know I know :)
You use Axe Body Spray too right. And not because you think it smells good.
But because you actually believe that what happens in the commercials is true :yup:

I know I said that I didnt know what to say. But it just came to me so had too say it.

Another thing that will happen when you open your eyes and look at the world as an adult. You'll learn not to set yourself up so easy ally.

You really cant get mad at me for that. If your gonna strut around and portray yourself with that kind of an ego. Then your gonna have to expect and be able to shrug off those kind of comebacks.

Seriously. You left yourself wide wide open for that. That was just way too easy.

Murphyg
04-15-08, 10:29 PM
That is why I have a problem with your arguement. Your justification of this law is from a couple stories where people turned in front of oncoming cars. And in 1 case the guy was really drunk.

Then you completely ignore the fault of the "victims" and blame the whole accident on speeding...

So this law is passed because the public knows half the facts.

Are you seriously saying that you were not aware of the progression of the street racing that was occurring :bighead: ?
And I will say it again. "The Law Was Passed Because Of The Progression Of Street Racing" It wasnt because of specifically speeding. It was because of the progression of "Street Racing".
It was more than a couple of stories. More than the media. Common freakin knowledge ! It was becoming a regular thing. What rock have you been living under ?

mgscustomtune
04-15-08, 10:42 PM
The law is nothing more than a cash grab. In our society that is becoming more and more goverment controlled. I think we have more laws than a Comunist Country in Canada. Crack down on crime and drunk drivers not the guy who is running late to get to work to provide for his family or others who just want to open there car up on a clear hwy . Just look at Europe where countries have no speed limit on there super hwy's there death toll is no more. I think the law is bull ****. But if anyone likes to show by example and bring your car to me l can set speedlimiter at 100klm/hr.

Jon
04-15-08, 11:07 PM
I clicked and the first thing I saw was this line. I havent even read the rest of your post yet.

You know maybe your right. Every single 25-30 year old cop in your neighborhood is sooooo sooooo jealous of your car.
There lives are so insignificant that they cant sleep at night because all they can think of is how badly they were you and had a car like yours.

I just dont know what to say :canttalk: That is just sooo freakin hilarious !

Oh! Oh! Oh! I know I know :)
You use Axe Body Spray too right. And not because you think it smells good.
But because you actually believe that what happens in the commercials is true :yup:

I know I said that I didnt know what to say. But it just came to me so had too say it.

Another thing that will happen when you open your eyes and look at the world as an adult. You'll learn not to set yourself up so easy ally.

You really cant get mad at me for that. If your gonna strut around and portray yourself with that kind of an ego. Then your gonna have to expect and be able to shrug off those kind of comebacks.

Seriously. You left yourself wide wide open for that. That was just way too easy.

Seriously, what the hell would you know? How old are you? I'm 22. I KNOW the attention I get from the cops.

Last fall I was sitting at the lights. I'm the first car in the left, cop is the 2nd car in the right lane. Light turns green I'm doing 60 on the dot and the guy beside me (that was in front of the cop) is pulling away. I would guess 75-80. The cop decides to stay behind me. So here's some guy going 20~ over the limit but he decides to stay behind me. Hmmmm.

Jon
04-15-08, 11:08 PM
Are you seriously saying that you were not aware of the progression of the street racing that was occurring :bighead: ?
And I will say it again. "The Law Was Passed Because Of The Progression Of Street Racing" It wasnt because of specifically speeding. It was because of the progression of "Street Racing".
It was more than a couple of stories. More than the media. Common freakin knowledge ! It was becoming a regular thing. What rock have you been living under ?

You're so deluded it's pathetic. If this law is to combat street racing then why the hell can people be charged under it if they're the ONLY CAR ON THE ROAD?!

Murphyg
04-15-08, 11:19 PM
So now Ive read the rest:


Bullshit. What about stupid ass people who jump on the highway, do 60km/h on the merging lane and cut out in front of a car doing 100 without speeding up?

My girlfriend and sister KNOW they can't drive so they DON'T. If you can't fvcking drive, stay the fvck off the roads.

You forgot to add:
If you cant obey the rules of the roads then dont drive. You dont have the right to think your above any one else and the rules dont apply to you.
You admitted yourself that you speed. Which mind you is against the law. But you seem to think its OK for you. But you get upset when someone else breaks the law and doesnt yield what you believe mat be your right of way while your speeding. You get upset with them for driving hazardously against the law. But no one should be upset with you ?
Why is it ok for you to break the law but not others ?
Why should the rules only apply to others and not you


Never said speeding was always "ok". My problem is people like you put the blame SOLELY on the people that were speeding.
I dont know where you got the idea that I blame accidents SOLELY on speeding. I dont know where this people like "me" thing came from.
It was my attempt to explain the reason why this 50 over law was passed.
The law was passed because of the progression of Street Racing. Once again. Im not going to search for every incident that has occurred over the past X amount of years. If you have no clue as to why the law was passed. If you yourself believe its only because of the couple of incidents that were mentioned here. Then you should expand your world a bit more than your neighborhood, and what you perceive to be all the cops that live there that are jealous of you.


If you knew the father was impaired why didn't you mention it? I guess you're just like everybody else. Let's hide the fault of the "innocent dad" so the speeders look worse. The wife wasn't driving, but she's still dead. Yes, that is true. She's also just as stupid. Would YOU let someone who's drunk get behind the wheel of a car? Would YOU get into the car with them? If so then I suspect you will stop posting here soon and we'll never hear from you again.

I already explained why I didnt bring it up. You have made it quite obvious that you dont pay attention to all that one says.
You also appear to be quite a crass and insensitive sociopath. Dead and stupid you called her.
I only say that because it really does appear that you are blaming her and calling her stupid because of others that were breaking the law.
Werther it be her husband that was driving her. Or the individuals that were Racing. As well as some of the other things that you have said. You really do appear to be quit cold and uncaring.

You have made quit a few statements on how you believe that its ok for you to break the laws. But then on how upset you get when others do the same.
Your indifferent views on the deaths of others is also quit disturbing.
Your disregard and continued arguing about statements that have already been explained and clarified is also quite masochistic.

I really cant do this with you anymore

Jon
04-15-08, 11:32 PM
So now Ive read the rest:



You forgot to add:
If you cant obey the rules of the roads then dont drive. You dont have the right to think your above any one else and the rules dont apply to you.
You admitted yourself that you speed. Which mind you is against the law. But you seem to think its OK for you. But you get upset when someone else breaks the law and doesnt yield what you believe mat be your right of way while your speeding. You get upset with them for driving hazardously against the law. But no one should be upset with you ?
Why is it ok for you to break the law but not others ?
Why should the rules only apply to others and not you


I dont know where you got the idea that I blame accidents SOLELY on speeding. I dont know where this people like "me" thing came from.
It was my attempt to explain the reason why this 50 over law was passed.
The law was passed because of the progression of Street Racing. Once again. Im not going to search for every incident that has occurred over the past X amount of years. If you have no clue as to why the law was passed. If you yourself believe its only because of the couple of incidents that were mentioned here. Then you should expand your world a bit more than your neighborhood, and what you perceive to be all the cops that live there that are jealous of you.



I already explained why I didnt bring it up. You have made it quite obvious that you dont pay attention to all that one says.
You also appear to be quite a crass and insensitive sociopath. Dead and stupid you called her.
I only say that because it really does appear that you are blaming her and calling her stupid because of others that were breaking the law.
Werther it be her husband that was driving her. Or the individuals that were Racing. As well as some of the other things that you have said. You really do appear to be quit cold and uncaring.

You have made quit a few statements on how you believe that its ok for you to break the laws. But then on how upset you get when others do the same.
Your indifferent views on the deaths of others is also quit disturbing.
Your disregard and continued arguing about statements that have already been explained and clarified is also quite masochistic.

I really cant do this with you anymore
Good, then leave.

I never said it was ok fine for me to speed. If I speed and I get nailed for speeding, sure, I deserve it. I have told you the 50 over part of Bill 203 is not my main concern. Go back up and read. It's the fact that "stunting" can be defined as almost anything and it is ALL UP TO THE officer that pulls you over.

I follow the flow of traffic on the highway. Is that speeding? Yes it is. Am I disturbing other people? Do people have to take action to avoid me? No. If I turn in front of oncoming cars does that disturb them? Do they have to take action to avoid me? YES.

Yes, you did blame accidents solely on speeding. The fact that you dismissed and hid the fact that Mr. Manchester was completely drunk shows that. You wanted everyone to believe that the accident was because those 2 kids were "street racing."

You can call me uncaring and whatever. Yes, I am cold. Again I ask you, would you get into a car with a drunk driver?

Caddyshack100
04-19-08, 11:12 PM
Whether someone is speeding, stunt driving or Racing, when you strip away all the rhetoric, its about speed. Our society and the Americans have sped themselves up, I do not think its about selfishness, or I own the road and get out of my way because I am more important. In the last 15 years, we have become much more crowded and a lot less tolerant of Traffic Lights, Stop Signs and other political devices to slow us down. For some reason, politicians and planners want us to cram into smaller and smaller spaces so they can provide or so they believe services (read public Transit) and try and force people to not use their cars. THis all effects the way we drive. The law as its stands is seriously flawed, it leaves too much in the hands of the police officer, it goes against every grain of common sense, you are innocent until proven guility, this is not Mexico. I will be 45 this year, when I was young, I had a 69 Dodge Charger, and yes I did race it on the streets, Woodbridge mostly. The cops knew about it, in fact sometimes they would be watching as well. I am not saying that today, we had hotter cars then and some today, this was not an issue, since people have had cars, they have raced each other, all of a sudden its a problem. While its politically correct to attack, speeders, stunter, racers. I believe that politicians and police need to address much more important issues. Ontario has not got its priorities straight when it comes to traffic control, all levels of government go out of their way to harrass the motorist. Taxes at the pump, no new highways, toll roads, losing your licence if you drink and boat. Forcing people to buy auto insurance thus causing the high insurance levels today. All this plays a part. Jon is right on the money when he says as a young man he is given more 'attention' Young people today are screwed when you compare what I went through, now they can not buy cars without the help of mom and dad, or pay through the nose for Facility insurance. Jon you are 22, what do you pay for insurance, 400 month if you are lucky, and I bet the company you insure through does not care if you a good driver or not, they have you by the balls until 25 and they will milk you until then.

Murphyg
04-23-08, 11:30 PM
I myself did not pass the law.
I was only making an attempt to explain the reasoning behind the governments decision.

Please do not shoot the messenger !

It is an argument that can/and has been going on for years. Actually; since the first week motor vehicles first hit the road.

Governments This ! Police Officers That ! They are all out to get us !!

I agree that we are no where near a Utopian existence. But without the laws that we have selected. Without the Rights that we have decided should apply to all. Without the Governments we have elected to appoint such positions of law and order......
Where then would we be ?

Should add....Side note:

........................ Just look at Europe where countries have no speed limit on there super hwy's there death toll is no more. I think the law is bull ****. ..............................
Those European countries that have highways with no speed limits in designated sections, They are a free for all.
Free for all in the sense that any kind of damage and or loss of life is bestowed upon the driver at fault. No insurance coverage what so ever ! Whom ever the Government appointed Police/Investigators deem to be at fault are the ones whom pay.
And they pay out of there pocket. They Kill someone, then they pay, And they pay very large !!!
If you wish to drive like that then you and solely you are responsible for your actions. It is set for those that "believe" they are talented enough to press those limits. But still set up in such a manner as to exonerate those that wish to exist within the laws of a democratic society to be accepted by all.
If you wish to press the limits. Then you may do so. But you do so amongst others that also wish too. Not amongst innocence that like to believe those around them are also law abiding citizens.

There are places for that in Europe. As well as many places for that in North America. There is a time and a place for excessive speed limits etc........

And it should not be on public roads.

Turning this into an argument about *******s that have a certain job that deals with the public is nonsense.
Ive had more problems with dicks when tryin to order a pizza. And if they had they power Im sure they would have given me a fine. But Im guessing that all they did was spit on my cheese.

We are all human beings. And as is certainally noticeable here. It doesnt take much to set some off and want to retaliate.
Just go with the flow and and maybe take some meds, (if need be), to get out of that paranoia :hide: the paranoia that the government, the cops, the world, is out to get you.


In the last 15 years, we have become much more crowded and a lot less tolerant of Traffic Lights, Stop Signs and other political devices to slow us down. For some reason, politicians and planners want us to cram into smaller and smaller spaces so they can provide or so they believe services (read public Transit) and try and force people to not use their cars. THis all effects the way we drive. .
One must remember, that the reason as to why we congregate in such a clustered way, has nothing to do with the government.
It is not the fault of the government to want us to use public transit.
It is not the government that is forcing us to into residing withing close quarters.
It is not the fault of the government as to where the masses reside.
We have always been intelligent enough to know, that to prosper, we must be along the trade routes.

"That is not something that the government came up with!!!"

That is plain common sense :thepan:

Im sure that many arent pleased with the way North America....(Or the Free World for that matter)......is governed. But to put onus upon the government for just a few, against the rights of us all as a whole...............

Give an inch and take a mile I guess.
Maybe some just need something to Bitch about.
Maybe some are just selfish.
Maybe some believe they are above the rest and feel that certain particular laws are below there status.
Maybe some dont have a clue that the world doesnt revolve around them.
Maybe some dont have a clue that society doesnt function on an individual basis.
Maybe some dont have a clue as to how well they really have it.

Maybe some dont have a clue as to what "IT" is

It is an argument that can/and has been going on for years. Actually... since the first week motor vehicles first hit the road.
I myself did not pass the law.
I was only making an attempt to explain the reasoning behind the governments decision.

Please do not shoot the messenger !

Caddyshack100
04-24-08, 10:59 PM
Well its at that point where we agree to disagree, you are right though about government, I should not have used those terms, rather its the people who make up that government, you are right, this is still N America, and I still would rather live here than anywhere else, I drive everyday from the shores of Georgian Bay to Brampton, 280 km each day, I have seen alot and my drive has become longer and longer, yes its my choice, but none of the changes especially in Brampton are positive ones. Thats all I wish to say.

Murphyg
04-28-08, 08:59 PM
And with the good weather it begins again.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/04/24/5377746-sun.html

97EldoCoupe
05-21-08, 08:50 PM
It's careless speeding that's the issue. And someone explain how this makes sense: I live 5 houses from a school of approx 800 kids. 10 in the morning, when school's in session, I hear a speeding motorbike, I look out the window, a bike flies past my house doing at least 160 km/h, or 100 MPH. toward the school. Guess what?! An OPP cruiser was right behind, doing the same speed. Toward the school, only 5 houses away from me. What gives the cops the rights to endanger kids' lives like that? To me it doesn't matter what the guy on the bike did, the cop had no right to chase him past a school. That's plain rediculous. Cops speed when they shouldn't, and to me this is an example of it. They have all the rights, eh?

I'm running a Cobra radar detector. I forget which model but it has the digital readout and voice alert. It has saved my butt a few times. 3kms ahead of time it'll go off, if a cop is ahead. And I can pass by them with that puppy on, and they can't detect it. I hide it when I see a cruiser, or if I'm driving in town. But out on the highway it has never let me down. I don't believe in rediculously high speeds, but every now and then I get my car up to about 100-110 MPH (160-180km/h). Not for long, and only on open roads with no traffic. But the speed limit is 80km/h on country roads around me, with nothing in sight but two lanes and yellow stripes. Why the heck would you NOT speed? Cops are after the money, not keeping the roads safe.

Explain this one to me. I'm driving 90km/h. All of a sudden I see a cop in my rear view. I drop down to 80, and she (yes a female officer) passes me. So I match her speed with a safe following distance. She does 95 km/h. All of a sudden she slams her brakes and hits the shoulder, hoping that I'll pass her doing a speed her radar detector will pick up. Luckily I hit the brakes right after and dropped below the speed limit, so she couldn't get a reading. If we can't speed, why should they. If we stay behind them and keep up, what's the harm?

Yes, some (the odd one) cops do the public big favours and they help us out. Others, kick you when you're down. They pick on people who can't afford tickets, and are just driving to work so they can feed their kids and family. Pull us over, fine. Tell us we were speeding. Fine. Let us off with a warning. Most people will slow down with a warning alone. Taking our money, our cars, 10 thousand dollar fines? What the hell? This is C-A-N-A-D-A. Our police system is supposed to help people. Instead we have the mafia in uniforms, and our tax dollars are filling their tanks.

I saw one officer in Toronto I think, help a lady change her flat tire. Round of applause to that officer. I'd do the same if I were in uniform. Cops like that, we could use.

97EldoCoupe
05-21-08, 08:53 PM
And another thing. I'm aware of the radar-detector fines if I get caught. I forget exactly what the fines are, I know they're stiff, but not as stiff as losing your car. What happens to it when it gets impounded? We're all driving CADILLACS!!!! Every one of us should have a good radar detector. We're driving better and faster cars than the cops are, why not have a bit of protection so we don't lose our pride-and-joy toys?

Caddyshack100
05-23-08, 06:15 PM
Boy when I wrote this, I did not think it would hit such a nerve and polarize people. Eldo97 for the record, and believe it or not, police no matter what they are doing, can drive as fast as they want, when on patrol. Of course they become mere mortals again when not in uniform. Firetrucks, Ambulances, and Towtrucks are also not required to obey the limits. Just kidding with the tow trucks. Now that this law has been with us for a while, some things have become clear, it has not had the intended effect of slowing people down, now they only do 145 not 150 down the highway, it has made no difference to the safety of the streets, heck truckers drive like lunatics far more than car drivers do. It has really pissed people off, and now when a cop wants to pull someone over if they have gone the 50 plus, now sometimes people will try and get away. If you travel as much as I do on the 400 series, most of the vehicles in the hammer lane are VW TDI's (tuetonic Dumbkof Imports) usually with one light out or one taillight out belching out their black smoke and stink of their exhaust, so much for clean diesels, now these vehicles are usually doing 140 or better, guess they won't be getting 1000 km out of a tank of expensive (yippee) diesel. Jury is still out on this law, maybe the government can be made to see common sense. NOT

Jon
05-25-08, 10:59 PM
http://www.wheels.ca/Columnists/article/248098


Hey look at me! I'm a street racer!
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Just a slight nudge above 150 km/h and Jim Kenzie joins Fantino's Most Wanted List
Jim Kenzie
Special to the Star


May 24, 2008



I am now officially a "street racer."

I went up to Dave & Buster's in Vaughan, near Highways 7 and 400. I confronted the young kids in their slammed Civics and tarted up STis, and said, "Okay, dudes, who's got a pink slip they want to put up? I got a four-year-old diesel-powered automatic transmission Volkswagen Jetta station wagon, and this silver-haired old man is ready to take on any of you. Anyone got the guts?

"That Natalie Wood look-alike can drop the hanky for me; that Christina Aguilera look-alike can drop the hanky for you."

Well, it didn't happen exactly like that.

I was cruising along with the flow of traffic on the 401 at just under 140 km/h. I thought about the recent furor generated by OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino, that anyone doing 50 over the limit is automatically a street racer, and wondered what it would be like to be a Bad Boy.

So I nudged the accelerator just a titch, and barely saw 150 on the clock.

Wow! I'm a street racer!

In a Volkswagen. Jetta. Station wagon. Diesel. Automatic.

It was so much fun that a few weeks later I tried it again, this time in a 70-hp three cylinder sub-1.0 L Smart car. Okay, so it does have a Ferrari-style Formula One paddle shifter.

And seconds after I backed off from this lofty speed, an OPP paddy wagon went flying by me – no emergency lights – as if I were painted on the pavement.

C'mon, Julian. Get a grip. You can't even convince your own employees to buy into this nonsense.

And I read recently that a cop from another jurisdiction stopped a cop in a marked cruiser, who was allegedly driving more than 50 km over the limit. So much for that "we're-all-in-this-together" theory.

We build highways that are capable of these speeds. We have cars that are capable of these speeds. There is considerable doubt we have drivers that are capable of these speeds, but until or unless you choose to do something about that, you can't keep trying to be King Canute, driving back the tides, trying to keep us from driving at these speeds.

Ontario drivers are voting with their right feet, every single day.

You are proud of the fact that Ontario has the safest highways in North America. Fair enough. And there's no doubt that we shouldn't ever be satisfied, and seek to be even better.

But this little speed vendetta of yours is a complete and utter waste of time, and of scarce police resources.

According to a recent story in the Toronto Star, as of last weekend 5,000 vehicles had been impounded by your new edict, their owners subject to massive financial penalties that will continue to accrue due to raised insurance premiums.

Has it had any effect whatsoever?

Recently, your minions stated that speed-related fatalities have been reduced by 41 per cent from last year, hinting, if not directly claiming, that the street racer law is responsible for this dramatic decrease.

Just as similar claims made to support photo radar 12 years ago proved spurious, this one stinks of statistical skulduggery too.

First, every car crash is "speed-related" to one degree or another. If nobody is moving, i.e. there is no speed, then there are no crashes – unless a stationary car falls off a bridge.

Second, a change of this magnitude to a "mature" statistic like this clearly cannot be attributed to any single intervention, and surely is an anomaly. If there is any joke about statistics, it's that two points make a straight line, three points make a trend. You barely have two points here.

Third, the police seem to still be catching "street racers" in undiminished numbers, which suggests that this intervention is not in fact slowing down many people; anyone with eyes can see the same thing on any stretch of controlled-access highway in this province.

So even if 41 per cent is a robust number, wouldn't we notice a simultaneous decrease in the number of street-racer arrests, and in average speed on the highways?

Not to mention that this procedure flies in the face of a thousand years of British common law jurisprudence, turning the cop into the judge, jury and executioner. The punishment is meted out with the alleged perpetrator never having a minute in court, let alone his day.

(By the way, if this sort of thing turns your crank, there's a petition on this very issue on the web at: petitiononline.com/civil013/.)

Ontario's good traffic safety record has been there for a long time, far longer than this recent endeavour, far longer than you, Mr. Commissioner, have even been in office, so claiming any credit for it at all is fatuous.

Ironically, these speed racer stats were also quoted in a recent Star report of a Victoria Day holiday tragedy where three young women died going approximately zero km/h, after doing a U-turn on a country road. Two apparently weren't wearing their seatbelts, a disturbing sign, but when you get T-boned by a transport truck, seatbelts aren't likely to help.

Here's my bet as to why Ontario has such good overall safety numbers: most such statistics are based on deaths-per-so-many-vehicle-kilometres travelled. It is well known that controlled-access highways are by far our safest roads, because the opportunities for T-bone or head-on crashes – by far the most dangerous type of car crash – are virtually eliminated.

How ironic, again, that highways are also by far our fastest roads.

And I'm guessing that Ontario has a higher percentage of traffic travelling on highways – 401 et al. – than just about anywhere.

Hence, better overall safety numbers. Just a guess.

Not that I am trying to make light of street racing. Okay, I am, but I am not condoning it. Sure, it is an issue, but statistically it is a very small issue.

And automatically slapping that label on anyone who goes 50 over the artificially low speed limit (20 over what I think should be the real limit) isn't going to help.

If you want to do something intelligent about speed on our highways, try following the lead of other jurisdictions that have done it successfully.

The key? Set a realistic speed limit, one that the driving public will buy into, and enforce it consistently.

Most Ontario highways can easily handle 130 km/h. They do, for hundreds of thousands of cars, every day.

So make that the limit, make sure we all know it, and apply the needed enforcement.

Geez, if they can make it work in France – and they have – why won't it work here? Surely it's worth a try.

Oh yeah, it wouldn't hurt if we could do something about our lane discipline too.

Imagine, roads that are faster, more efficient and safer!

Dare to dream, Julian. Dare to dream.

Wheels' chief auto correspondent Jim Kenzie can be reached at jim@jimkenzie.com

Caddyshack100
05-26-08, 01:42 PM
Great article, Jim is one of my favorite automotive writers and it is for him that I buy the Sat Star for the Wheels section, at least with him, speed is put into perspective and not hysteria, not like his colleague that writes for the same section, Ian Law.

icbones@sympatico.ca
11-14-08, 09:48 AM
The critisism over section 172 of the HTA (Anti-racing law) is going on at several Car, Gun and Motorcycle forums. The vast majority of people see this law as the tax grab that it is. As well, on every forum there is some good little government droid or the vindictive grieving friend/relative of a victim of a car crash that is out on a mission to get even with everybody on the road except themselves.

All though you don't read it in the papers or hear it on the news, Ontario has some of the safest drivers in North America, yes we all see stupid things and we probably all do careless things at some time or other. For the most part drivers in Ontario are safe and courteous. But all we hear in the news is the negative portrayal of drivers as aggressive and dangerous. During the summer months every week in the newspapers the headlines advertise another "Blitz" or "crackdown" or "Zero Tolerance" OPP initiative regarding seatbelts, aggressive driving, speeding, or whatever else they can think of. We all see Cam Wolley and Fantino bleating about what poor drivers we are, while he skips the fact that cops are not subject to the same extreme penalties of our street racing law.

Do bad that news hounds don't mention the number of times drivers help each other out. During power outages when major intersections become four way stop signs, very few incidences occur during these times. One would think that with all the talk of aggressiveness out there, mass hysteria would turn us into homicidal motor maniacs when the traffic lights fail.

Consider the amount of construction that motorists put up with and the crappy condition of many roads in Ontario, I think would should get some praise from Wolley and Fantino every once in a while. I guess praise doesn't rake in the revenue that fines do?

EISKALT
11-16-08, 02:44 PM
this law is silly, at this thought of losing your car whos going to stop, NOt me

So far it's worked!!

KlrOntherd
11-21-08, 03:38 AM
What about the others on the road.
What about the others.
The others that are not racing.
The others that are just driving.
What about the others on the road.
The others that are using the roads as meant to be.
As a way to get from here to there.
As a way to live.
Not to play.
But to live.
What about the others on the highways that are made to handle high speeds.
What about the others that pay taxes for the roads that are to last.
What about the others that realize they are meant to last but just happen to also be able to handle high speed.
What about the others that drive to get from A to B

Who cares about those ?
Who doesnt care about those ?

What about the person breaking the law.
What about the person who thinks the law doesnt matter.
What about the person breaking the law set for our society that felt it was beyond them.
What about the person whom broke the law and now my wife, child, father, mother, and or me is now dead.

Hows about the law doesnt matter anymore.
Hows about you think the law is wrong.
Hows about you disobey the law anyways.
Hows about someone makes you eat a gun and blows your head off ?

Hows about you slow down where every one else is concerned.

Hows about
I will only shoot my gun on the range
And hows about
You will only race on a track.

Fair is fair. Law is law

If not then you can race around me all over the roads. But I can then come into your home and shoot wildly.

It is the law.
If you feel a particular law doesnt work for you within your society. Then you have decided that any law is a free for all.
And that means a free for all on any law for any one.

Please tell me your address and I will come to your home. Your work place. wherever you may be just so that I can do things to put you in jeopardy, and or piss you off , and or ......break laws that you agree with but I think are wrong.

Please let me know where you are sos that I can do what i feel I want to because I dont agree with what anyone else says and or justifies by law. Please tell me sos that I can be like you and run amuk and be-do what I feel is best for me and not give a care about anyone else.

Please tell me where I can find you and your family (mano-mano) sos that I can show you the laws of society that I dont agree with.

Jon
11-21-08, 01:01 PM
What about the others on the road.
What about the others.
The others that are not racing.
The others that are just driving.
What about the others on the road.
The others that are using the roads as meant to be.
As a way to get from here to there.
As a way to live.
Not to play.
But to live.
What about the others on the highways that are made to handle high speeds.
What about the others that pay taxes for the roads that are to last.
What about the others that realize they are meant to last but just happen to also be able to handle high speed.
What about the others that drive to get from A to B

Who cares about those ?
Who doesnt care about those ?

What about the person breaking the law.
What about the person who thinks the law doesnt matter.
What about the person breaking the law set for our society that felt it was beyond them.
What about the person whom broke the law and now my wife, child, father, mother, and or me is now dead.

Hows about the law doesnt matter anymore.
Hows about you think the law is wrong.
Hows about you disobey the law anyways.
Hows about someone makes you eat a gun and blows your head off ?

Hows about you slow down where every one else is concerned.

Hows about
I will only shoot my gun on the range
And hows about
You will only race on a track.

Fair is fair. Law is law

If not then you can race around me all over the roads. But I can then come into your home and shoot wildly.

It is the law.
If you feel a particular law doesnt work for you within your society. Then you have decided that any law is a free for all.
And that means a free for all on any law for any one.

Please tell me your address and I will come to your home. Your work place. wherever you may be just so that I can do things to put you in jeopardy, and or piss you off , and or ......break laws that you agree with but I think are wrong.

Please let me know where you are sos that I can do what i feel I want to because I dont agree with what anyone else says and or justifies by law. Please tell me sos that I can be like you and run amuk and be-do what I feel is best for me and not give a care about anyone else.

Please tell me where I can find you and your family (mano-mano) sos that I can show you the laws of society that I dont agree with.

It's sad that so many people don't understand the problem with this law. The problem is NOT the intent. The problem is the implementation.

There is WAY too much power to let the cop suspend and impound your car on the side of the street. A cop can pull me over and say I was stunt driving with absolutely zero proof. So I go to court and I fight it off. So what? The cop gets no punishment, yet I'm out impound fees, and the license suspension goes on my record. Insurance finds out, I'm 22 with a license suspension for "street racing". Who do you think is going to insure me?

I don't even need to be doing anything wrong. If you have been keeping up to date with this law you would have seen that a ridiculous amount of charges were COMPLETELY dropped when they went to court. Some were reduced to a lesser charge, but a lot were COMPLETELY dropped. Yet, all those people still paid impound fees and insurance hikes.

There was one guy who got interviewed. He didn't signal a lane change and was charged for "stunting". HOW IS THAT STREET RACING?! I hate people that don't signal lane changes, but that is NOT street racing. The cops have WAY too much power.

And as for "LAW IS LAW". 100% absolute bullshit. Again, have you been keeping up to date with the events surrounding this law?

Read this: http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1290712


OPP officer cleared of stunt-driving charge
Racism behind allegation, constable says
Posted By GALEN EAGLE, EXAMINER COURT WRITER
Posted 10 days ago


Peterborough County OPP Const. Lloyd Tapp was found not guilty yesterday on charges of stunt driving and careless driving.

The 43-year-old officer had strong words for the fellow officer who made the allegations against him and those that investigated the case.

"Like I have been saying all along, the whole charge was a crock of lies," Tapp said. "The evidence you have heard today in court is a clear indication of the shoddy investigations of the Ontario Provincial Police."

Questioning why charges were laid against him, Tapp said he is a visible minority who has made four claims to the Ontario Human Rights Commission against the OPP since 2005.

"One might ask then, why were charges laid when such a strong prima facie case existed with a lack of evidence to even substantiate a charge?" he said. "What the public has heard today in court, the public should take heed to the type of so-called professional investigations and integrity of investigations by OPP."

Tapp was charged April 8 with driving at least 50 km/h over the speed limit and careless driving on Highway 115 in Cavan Monaghan Township on March 25.

Tapp was one of several Peterborough County OPP officers who agreed to provide security detail at Queen's Park during the release of the provincial budget March 25, court heard.

OPP Const. Brenda Donnelly travelled with Tapp to Toronto in a marked cruiser, she testified. The two left the Peterborough detachment at about 3:37 a. m. and arrived in Toronto for briefing at about 4:45 a. m., she said.

En route to Toronto, Donnelly said Tapp was driving 180 km/h along Highway 115, between 140 to 160 km/h on the 401 and was obeying the speed limit on the Don Valley Parkway.

"We started going fast, excessive speeds," she told court. "The speedometer was pointing in my direction ... it was at the 180 km/h mark. We travelled that speed for quite a ways, most of the 115."

Donnelly said she didn't say anything to Tapp because she had to work with him for the rest of the day. She made a formal police statement six days later, court heard.

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Defence lawyer William MacKenzie questioned why Donnelly didn't stop Tapp if he was driving at such speeds.

"On your evidence, you sat there quietly while a member of the police service broke the law. You failed to uphold your duties as a sworn officer, correct," MacKenzie asked.

"Yes, yes I did," Donnelly replied.

Tapp testified he wasn't paying attention to the speedometer but was going with the flow of traffic. He said he would never drive at such "ridiculous" speeds.

"Personally, it's against my code of ethics to travel at that speed," Tapp testified.

MacKenzie argued Donnelly was a poor witness who didn't take any notes of the incident. Her testimony also diverged from her police statement, court heard. She told police Tapp travelled 180 km/h the entire way to Toronto, MacKenzie noted.

Given the 134 kilometres between the detachment and Queen's Park and the timeline Donnelly provided, MacKenzie said Tapp couldn't have driven more than 50 km/h over the speed limit.

"The mathematics don't lie here," MacKenzie said.

Justice of the peace Douglas Clark ruled the Crown did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.


So... A POLICE OFFICER in the passenger seat, who testifies that her partner was speeding, going 180km/h for MINUTES, cannot get a conviction. YET, some cop on the street can accuse me of stunt driving and take my car on the spot?

"FAIR IS FAIR"?????? "LAW IS LAW"???? Are you a cop?!

EISKALT
11-26-08, 05:33 PM
shoot wildy ?

the very reason you shouldnt be driving either,
some people can drive better, have control over there shooting etc......
there are plenty of slow drivers who are more of a danger then faster ones,

qoute:Please tell me your address and I will come to your home. Your work place. wherever you may be just so that I can do things to put you in jeopardy, and or piss you off , and or ......break laws that you agree with but I think are wrong.

sounds like your already running amuk, or off your meds.

Chadillac182
03-23-09, 02:17 AM
It's careless speeding that's the issue. And someone explain how this makes sense: I live 5 houses from a school of approx 800 kids. 10 in the morning, when school's in session, I hear a speeding motorbike, I look out the window, a bike flies past my house doing at least 160 km/h, or 100 MPH. toward the school. Guess what?! An OPP cruiser was right behind, doing the same speed. Toward the school, only 5 houses away from me. What gives the cops the rights to endanger kids' lives like that? To me it doesn't matter what the guy on the bike did, the cop had no right to chase him past a school. That's plain rediculous. Cops speed when they shouldn't, and to me this is an example of it. They have all the rights, eh?

I'm running a Cobra radar detector. I forget which model but it has the digital readout and voice alert. It has saved my butt a few times. 3kms ahead of time it'll go off, if a cop is ahead. And I can pass by them with that puppy on, and they can't detect it. I hide it when I see a cruiser, or if I'm driving in town. But out on the highway it has never let me down. I don't believe in rediculously high speeds, but every now and then I get my car up to about 100-110 MPH (160-180km/h). Not for long, and only on open roads with no traffic. But the speed limit is 80km/h on country roads around me, with nothing in sight but two lanes and yellow stripes. Why the heck would you NOT speed? Cops are after the money, not keeping the roads safe.

Explain this one to me. I'm driving 90km/h. All of a sudden I see a cop in my rear view. I drop down to 80, and she (yes a female officer) passes me. So I match her speed with a safe following distance. She does 95 km/h. All of a sudden she slams her brakes and hits the shoulder, hoping that I'll pass her doing a speed her radar detector will pick up. Luckily I hit the brakes right after and dropped below the speed limit, so she couldn't get a reading. If we can't speed, why should they. If we stay behind them and keep up, what's the harm?

Yes, some (the odd one) cops do the public big favours and they help us out. Others, kick you when you're down. They pick on people who can't afford tickets, and are just driving to work so they can feed their kids and family. Pull us over, fine. Tell us we were speeding. Fine. Let us off with a warning. Most people will slow down with a warning alone. Taking our money, our cars, 10 thousand dollar fines? What the hell? This is C-A-N-A-D-A. Our police system is supposed to help people. Instead we have the mafia in uniforms, and our tax dollars are filling their tanks.

I saw one officer in Toronto I think, help a lady change her flat tire. Round of applause to that officer. I'd do the same if I were in uniform. Cops like that, we could use.

100% AGREE here!! :werd: I'm a young guy with a few Cadillac's, these cops are only out for cash... And I've seen it first hand.