: Ventilated seats



BooYaKa
09-26-07, 07:44 PM
I have a 2006 sts4 fully loaded with one exception. It doesnt have the Ventilated seating. I guess whoever purchased the car prior to me checked off the option. I have the button on the dash for it and when i remote start the car they turn on with no results. How much do you think it would cost to have it installed? It just really irks me that i dont have this feature and was wondering if anyone has any idea how complicated/expensive the installation would be. Thanks in advance.




BooYaKa

MARKVIII
09-26-07, 07:45 PM
if u have the button for it then you have. maybe they are clogged or the motor is burnt.

Skibanker
09-26-07, 08:54 PM
BooYaa, I would guess that you do have it and it is working. The ventilated seats suck rather than blow so the effect is quite subtle. Turn on your passenger seat vent and stick a Kleenex or small paper napkin up against the seat back. I betcha it sticks!

bigdog9586
09-26-07, 10:29 PM
It sure feels like mine blow as on high I can feel the cold blowing on my back. Sucking just doesn't make sense. When your butt is sitting on the seat the idea is to blow cool air on it and sucking just doesn't do that. In other words I think you are wrong.

dkozloski
09-26-07, 11:02 PM
What the seat heater/cooler does with a remote start depends on ambient temperature. The alogrithym is so off the wall there is no way to predict what happens. Ewill layed it out one day in a post. Maybe he could do it again.

rb92gt
09-27-07, 10:03 AM
When you say you have the button on the dash, do you mean the buttons have two different pictures on them, one at top then one at the bottom? If so, you have ventilated seats. If heated only, then just one picture in the center of each button.

ewill3rd
09-27-07, 10:56 AM
If your control looks like the attachment then you have heated and cooled seats. The fan seat icon is for cooling and the seat icon with the arrowheaded wiggly lines is for the heated feature. Pressing the button multiple times changes the intensity of the heating/cooling with the highest setting being the first button press, and the third press is the lowest setting, 4th is back off again.

The system has a semiconductor device that transfers heat from one side to the other making it "cold" on one side and "hot" on the other.
The polarity of the device (called a TED or thermo-electric device) is changed to heat or cool the side on the airflow side to the seat based on control inputs and sensor values. (also called a Peltier device, look at wikipedia or google it)

On the bottom of the TED unit there is a filter screen or sock depending on the model. The screen covers the air inlet, inside there is a fan that blows air accross the TED, then the air is pushed into ducts that infiltrate the cushions in the seat back and bottom. So the suction is under the seat and the seats are heated and cooled by forced air blowing on the back side of the upholstery and through small perforations in the seat covers.

If I had seen this sooner I could have posted some pics of an XLR seat, I have had 2 of them out recently.

As far as heated/cooled seat operation on remote start, it is indeed complicated.
I'll see if I can find the document that explains it and attach it as well.

Looks like it is non-published information, but here is an excerpt.


The HVAC Control Module takes the following action during a remote start when the CLIMATE CONTROL, REAR WINDOW DEFOG, or SEAT TEMP (Temperature) CONTROL features are activated using the PERSONAL SETTINGS MENU. These selections will appear when REMOTE START is turned ON. These settings can be set independently for each Driver ID.

• When the ambient temp is greater than 32 degrees Fahrenheit, the HVAC Control Module uses the previous set temp and operates in FULL AUTO.


• When the ambient temp is less than 32 degrees Fahrenheit and the inside air temperature sensor reading is equal to or less than 50 degrees Fahrenheit, the HVAC Control Module uses the previous set temp, DEF mode, manual HI fan, Outside Air inlet and Rear Defroster on.


• When the inside air temperature sensor reading is below 54 degrees Fahrenheit, the HVAC Control Module enables the Heated seats ON at HIGH.


• When the inside air temperature sensor reading is above 80 degrees Fahrenheit and the ambient temp is above 70 degrees Fahrenheit, the HVAC Control Module enables Ventilated seats ON at HIGH.


The HVAC display is OFF during remote start. After remote start is cancelled by pressing the Start button, the HVAC Control Module reverts to the previous set temp/mode/blower. If the Heated/Vented Seat is on, it will be carried over to medium setting from the remote start.

BooYaKa
09-27-07, 01:21 PM
Before I bought the car the salesman said it didn't have cooled seats. He also said it didn't have bluetooth but it had navigation. He was wrong about the bt and and had to explain all sts with navi have bt. Yes I do have the button for the vent seats but there's no result. Is it possible the option was checked off when they ordered the car?

Skibanker
09-27-07, 02:04 PM
Instead of all this guesswork (Bigdog "thinks" I'm wrong), just go out to your car with a Kleenex, turn on the ventilation and stick the Kleenex to the seat back (like I have done). You will see that it sticks like glue, which means that the blowers suck. (And by the way, the Earth is round and a feather and cannon ball fall at the same rate when in a vacuum.) (I hate when I see smart a__ responses on here and here I am doing it. Be nice, Skibanker!)

ewill3rd
09-27-07, 02:17 PM
You know what? Disregard what I said before.
I didn't realize it but this system is not like the TED system I talked about before.

These seats are "heated and vented", not the heated and cooled seat description I gave before.

The heat works with traditional seat heater element pads installed below the leather covers.
The vent works as skibanker described. The blower kicks on to pull air through the seat covers to cool the seat down.
Strange but true.
Read this attachment for more detailed info.

I guess I am used to the heated/cooled option on the XLR and similarly equipped cars.

Sorry if I generated any confusion, I didn't realize there was a difference here.

MARKVIII
09-27-07, 03:41 PM
why would GM make both systems in two differant cars? one would think the STS would have the same system as the XLR?!?!

jvizzy22
09-27-07, 03:51 PM
yes they are basically fans the pull the hot air, cause mostly by your butt, away from the seat, too cool the seat using a cooling device would be a ridiculous process and very expensive, and somethin that could do that wouldn't even fit under the seat, basically the "sucking" feature is perfect for a nice cool seat without getting crazy, sorry booyaka, and btw, if you sit on your seat with light shorts on and push the feature on you should 100% be able to feel the coolness on you, the cleanex thing might work also, but if you really cant feel it when you sit on it and pay attention it is either broken or you need to get your nerves checked at the doctors because it is easily noticeable

ewill3rd
09-27-07, 06:36 PM
XLR uses a different setup.
Here is a document that talks about the TED devices I was speaking of earlier.
Much more complicated system. I think they use this in DTS and Escalade also.

Honestly I hadn't heard of this "vented" seat system.

BooYaKa
09-27-07, 08:10 PM
Thanks everyone for your help. That kleenex trick worked! It stuck to the seat. So I drove right to the dealer which thankfully is a mile from my house and its being serviced. Got stuck with a POS mazda rental though. But I'm very happy because I was looking into paying to have the feature installed. I'm boggled as to why the dealer would tell me that it didn't have the feature when it was broken on both seats.....but eh its under warranty. Thanks again everyone.

Curious George
09-28-07, 12:56 AM
Strange as it may seem, the vented seats in my STS do indeed SUCK. Might Cadillac adopt pre-crash technology and instantly boost the suck to really high values in the milliseconds before a frontal crash? Airbags might become obsolete.


And apropos of absolutely nuthin', I found an interesting tidbit about our alternators in Wikipedia. Back in the '90s the alternators in electronics-laden Sevilles and DeVilles were water cooled to help them cope with the heavy loads. The water cooling was dropped to avoid leak-induced problems and was replaced by an electronic governor that prevents alternator overheating. Wouldn't it have been cheaper to adapt the police-grade alternator from the Caprice patrol car and maybe duct some cool air to it?

ewill3rd
09-28-07, 09:34 AM
XLR uses a liquid cooled generator.
Most of the others are air cooled.
They have a couple of fans built into them for cooling.
We don't see modern generators fail nearly as often as older cars... pre 2000-ish.
I can barely recall the last time I had to replace one actually.

Lifer
09-28-07, 11:31 AM
why would GM make both systems in two differant cars? one would think the STS would have the same system as the XLR?!?!

For those of you that are interested in "heated/cooled" seats (like the DTS, and others), or climate controlled seats (Infinity M45, Lincoln LS, and a very few others) do a Google on Amerigon, seats and see what there is ( a lot). Why did GM decide that the STS was not Amerigon material, I will never know. I had these seats in my 2004 Lincoln LS, and it is the neatest thing I miss. I set the seats on automatic climate control, and depending on the ambient temperature, they either cooled (very well) or they heated (very well). A comfy tusch at all times. Never had to think about it. Always on unless I turned them off. The back sets were normal, heated types, but did not require a seated passenfger to come on like the STS does.
The STS seats do cool, but not very well, and the fan is loud. I haven't tested the heated side yet because its still warm in Texas.
So, if you bought a boudacious STS and thought the seats were the best money could buy, then GM did it again. You are a mark of their excellence. :crying2:

MARKVIII
09-28-07, 12:08 PM
If you look at the STS overall the technology on most systems is one generation behind everything else. the navigation/bluetooth/ipod-aux jack/low V8 horsepower/no balls bose audio/slow as sh!t cd changer/etc. etc.
so i am not surprised that the vented seat are worse then an 8 year old lincoln car that cost 20k less.

dkozloski
09-28-07, 12:34 PM
If you look at the STS overall the technology on most systems is one generation behind everything else. the navigation/bluetooth/ipod-aux jack/low V8 horsepower/no balls bose audio/slow as sh!t cd changer/etc. etc.
so i am not surprised that the vented seat are worse then an 8 year old lincoln car that cost 20k less.
You'll notice the same phenomenon in NASA spacecraft and commercial aircraft where the emphasis is on reliability from proven systems rather than glitz and glamor.

c5 rv
09-28-07, 01:05 PM
This explains why the cooled seats in my Lincoln and in the DTS I had for a loaner this week actually work v. the STS I test drove and wondered "Why is my butt not getting cool?"

Superjim
09-29-07, 04:02 AM
I have a '06 DTS .... LOVE the cooled seats, especially here in Texas.

JIm

bigdog9586
09-29-07, 12:14 PM
Looks like I have to eat my words, you're right and I'm wrong. First mistake I ever made:histeric: I guess there is a good side to all this. Next time I eat Mexican I'll remember to turn on the cooled ?? seat as it should help with unpleasent smells:histeric: Now the big question when it sucks where does it suck to?
===============

Instead of all this guesswork (Bigdog "thinks" I'm wrong), just go out to your car with a Kleenex, turn on the ventilation and stick the Kleenex to the seat back (like I have done). You will see that it sticks like glue, which means that the blowers suck. (And by the way, the Earth is round and a feather and cannon ball fall at the same rate when in a vacuum.) (I hate when I see smart a__ responses on here and here I am doing it. Be nice, Skibanker!)

coati
09-29-07, 12:35 PM
Hmmmmmmm. Very interesting.
I always thought they blowed, but I guess they suck?:bonkers:

rb92gt
09-29-07, 12:37 PM
Blow, suck, all means the same thing:shhh:

Skibanker
09-29-07, 01:43 PM
My guess is that girls in flimsy skirts wouldn't like their skirts billowing (if the seats blew), especially when there's guys like us around. So, they suck.

c5 rv
09-29-07, 10:06 PM
My guess is that girls in flimsy skirts wouldn't like their skirts billowing (if the seats blew), especially when there's guys like us around. So, they suck.

They don't blow that hard. Since the sucking design doesn't require a cooling unit, it's probably a lot cheaper. I'll have to put some summer miles on a STS / CTS with ventilated seats sometime to see if the seats cool well. On both my Lincoln and the DTS loaner, using the highest setting is way too cold. I mainly use the lowest cooling setting.

Lifer
09-29-07, 10:25 PM
On both my Lincoln and the DTS loaner, using the highest setting is way too cold. I mainly use the lowest cooling setting.

The Lincold LS cooling seats makes your gonads so cold you end up having Alaskans instead of normal children... :cool2:

Curious George
10-01-07, 02:11 PM
Blow, suck, all means the same thing:shhh:

I'm reminded of a Playboy cartoon from many years ago: A man is on his back on the bed, a woman bent over is private parts. His eyes are as big as saucers as he screams, "Suck! Suck! 'Blow' is just a figure of speech!"
They don't always mean the same thing.:hide:

z06bigbird
10-01-07, 11:41 PM
I have a 2006 sts4 fully loaded with one exception. It doesnt have the Ventilated seating. I guess whoever purchased the car prior to me checked off the option. I have the button on the dash for it and when i remote start the car they turn on with no results. How much do you think it would cost to have it installed? It just really irks me that i dont have this feature and was wondering if anyone has any idea how complicated/expensive the installation would be. Thanks in advance.




BooYaKa

Responses below seem to indicate a possible maintenance problem. I just happened to notice a mechanic working on the heated/cooled seats of a DHS or DTS. He removed the back of the leather, and the innerds looked like the workings of a space shuttle.

Complicated looking.