: Rear Main Seal



NoMaBeach
09-21-07, 08:57 PM
Took my 03 DTS in for a window regulator under warranty. Dealer found leaky rear main seal. They replaced the seal, I drove 10 miles and it failed. Waited a week for this to be repaired under warranty. Drove 50 miles and the seal failed. Anyone else experience these replacement seals?!?!?! When I say failed, I mean a quart of oil every 5 minutes. Input please!

AJxtcman
09-21-07, 09:00 PM
Took my 03 DTS in for a window regulator under warranty. Dealer found leaky rear main seal. They replaced the seal, I drove 10 miles and it failed. Waited a week for this to be repaired under warranty. Drove 50 miles and the seal failed. Anyone else experience these replacement seals?!?!?! When I say failed, I mean a quart of oil every 5 minutes. Input please!

I know what happened.:histeric:
Hummmmmmmm:hmm:
I need your VIN to make sure.

NoMaBeach
09-22-07, 02:11 PM
1G6KF57973U276460

thanks!

AJxtcman
09-22-07, 04:50 PM
The paper work has not cycles through.
On your Paper work from the initial repair can you look for a code. It will start with a J. Example J1190 or a J1120.
I can point you to the correct article.

clarkz71
09-22-07, 05:11 PM
AJ, what do you suspect as the cause of his problem?

NoMaBeach
09-22-07, 08:05 PM
J# 1 11cvz04
This Work?

AJxtcman
09-22-07, 08:14 PM
J# 1 11cvz04
This Work?

What is it that the repair order states that was done?
Yes I know you said rear main, but it can be done more than one way.

NoMaBeach
09-22-07, 08:26 PM
What is it that the repair order states that was done?
Yes I know you said rear main, but it can be done more than one way.

see scan here, this is the first work order. Ill post the 2nd below.
http://nomabeach.com/caddyorder.jpg

NoMaBeach
09-22-07, 08:37 PM
here is the 2nd work order.
http://nomabeach.com/caddyorder2.jpg

AJxtcman
09-22-07, 10:15 PM
see scan here, this is the first work order. Ill post the 2nd below.
http://nomabeach.com/caddyorder.jpg

This is what I was looking for.
The part was a manifold.
The Description is the case halves.

Now you have a problem.
GM came out with a liquid sealer a few years back called TRIBOND. This stuff is great and will seal anything including the rear main seal oil drain back.
I had performed several case halve reseal with the sealer before I realised I needed to clean out on passage that was not listed in the TSB. I have never had a failure. I just got lucky!
I did not want to tell you that this was a possibility if they never resealed the case halves.

Please look at this thread. I posted a picture of the hole that must be cleaned out.
I am not sure where it is for you but I think it is the 3rd from the last posting.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/117232-case-halves-reseal-fwd-rtv-sealant-new-post.html

NoMaBeach
09-23-07, 01:46 AM
Thank you so much for all of your help. I will pass this on to my dealer. Can I send you a bottle of wine for your help?
-Ryan

nomabeach at yahoo . com

NoMaBeach
09-23-07, 03:51 PM
The images are not loading on the link. I know it worked last night. But I failed to print them out. Can you fix that post? thanks

AJxtcman
09-23-07, 05:01 PM
The images are not loading on the link. I know it worked last night. But I failed to print them out. Can you fix that post? thanks

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/117232-case-halves-reseal-fwd-rtv-sealant.html#post1225830

dhm37
09-26-07, 05:52 PM
AJxtcman,
I have a 97 on an engine stand at home now doing overhaul. Just how was the oil getting past the rear main seal. I have just put in the "new style" rear seal and joined case halves using RTV gasket material (Loctite 5920 high temp stuff) and went all way to seal. If the RTV is filling the groove and circular "pots" with enough height to insure no voids when halves are mated, can oil leak by the rear seal? The drawings were great, but not clear at the point of where the gasket groove met up with the seal.

dhm37
09-26-07, 06:30 PM
AJxtchmn,
Ah, with some more reding, it seems that the rear seal is not leaking (after the dealer fix), but that the leak is probably coming from poor sealing on the oil manifold and/or at narrow points at the half-case junction. That would seem to make sense, expecially where the oil is under pressure. Thanks for the inclusion of the Bulletin.

NoMaBeach
09-26-07, 09:21 PM
Got my car back today. Dealer found RTV in the oil drain back hole. They opened the hole back up and replaced the rear main. I had the Service Manager drive it 100 miles before returning the car to me. So far, so good. Only time will tell if this was the main issue. Thanks so much for all the help. The dealer used this message board to fix my car.

clarkz71
09-27-07, 05:02 AM
Damn, AJ was right again, :2thumbs:

AJxtcman
09-27-07, 07:21 AM
Got my car back today. Dealer found RTV in the oil drain back hole. They opened the hole back up and replaced the rear main. I had the Service Manager drive it 100 miles before returning the car to me. So far, so good. Only time will tell if this was the main issue. Thanks so much for all the help. The dealer used this message board to fix my car.

I have used this wonderful forum to fix cars before was a member.

dhm37
09-27-07, 03:13 PM
AJ,
Reread the thread with pics, and understand drainback hole thingie. What I don't understand is the design of the new style seal. My 97 engine had old style, but new part is new style. It seems to need sealant around outside diam of bore, and is then swedged onto crank flange with special tool. Where are the moving surfaces? On the old seal, it was around the flange. Does the cassette style seal have moving surfaces inside of the casette, and the bore surface and crank flange surface are fixed (non-sliding)? Maybe I better use old style and hope it lasts another few years?

AJxtcman
09-27-07, 06:08 PM
AJ,
Reread the thread with pics, and understand drainback hole thingie. What I don't understand is the design of the new style seal. My 97 engine had old style, but new part is new style. It seems to need sealant around outside diam of bore, and is then swedged onto crank flange with special tool. Where are the moving surfaces? On the old seal, it was around the flange. Does the cassette style seal have moving surfaces inside of the casette, and the bore surface and crank flange surface are fixed (non-sliding)? Maybe I better use old style and hope it lasts another few years?

Gm is on the second or third cassette-style crankshaft rear oil seal.

As noted in the in the information.:yup: The original was equipped with a lip-style crankshaft rear oil seal. Then engines built from March 1, 1996 and thru 1999 should use the cassette-style crankshaft rear oil seal. :D

From 3/1/96 to about 1 year ago we never use sealer on it. The sealer tool is new and I feel it is a waste. I never had one leak before and I have no idea why they decided we needed it.

dhm37
09-28-07, 03:09 PM
Well, I opened up one of the new style ("second design") cassette rear main seals. Sure 'nuff, the sliding surfaces are inside the cassette, while the seal is locked to the crank and to the bore. The goop (sealant) that the bulletin calls for is to make sure the cassette outside case is bonded to the bore. The inside diam of the seal is metal which is swedged onto the crank flange, so it is pretty well fixed.

Having the case halves apart (as I have) makes putting the new style seal on pretty simple.

AJxtcman
09-28-07, 05:06 PM
Well, I opened up one of the new style ("second design") cassette rear main seals. Sure 'nuff, the sliding surfaces are inside the cassette, while the seal is locked to the crank and to the bore. The goop (sealant) that the bulletin calls for is to make sure the cassette outside case is bonded to the bore. The inside diam of the seal is metal which is swedged onto the crank flange, so it is pretty well fixed.

Having the case halves apart (as I have) makes putting the new style seal on pretty simple.

We put it in after it is back together. i have not tried to do it the other way.

I looked up the invoice for the sealer tool. It was shipped in 11 of 2006.
I would not put the sealer on it unless I was doing it under warranty or had time to spare.

parts68
09-28-07, 11:39 PM
I put a new seal in the 95 Aurora when I had it out for a tranny change about 18months ago.
I thought the front and rear were leaking but oddly enough it was the PS pump and it ran down
the front and rear seal areas.
Now you have me wondering what rear seal I used
I still have the blue insert tool left. Do the new seals come supplied with an installation tool?

parts68
09-29-07, 12:07 PM
update
I found receipt for seal
1647311
what version is this
I put it in dry with no sealer only what was on the outer part as made.

dhm37
09-30-07, 07:05 PM
The old style ("first design") is 1647308. 7311 must be the new style.

AJxtcman
09-30-07, 08:00 PM
Gm is on the second or third cassette-style crankshaft rear oil seal.

Green = 1st or 2nd

Blue is the current I think

parts68
09-30-07, 08:45 PM
Can you check the part# I listed

AJxtcman
09-30-07, 10:05 PM
12556107 is on my parts list for a piston job. I started out using the green seal and I might not have updated my list. I think the blue seal might be listed below.


Part number 12556107 was superceded by part number 12568025.

tateos
10-18-07, 03:43 PM
I am going to be doing a HG job on a '97 ETC soon. I have had some oil leaks - not sure if I need to do a case half reseal or just the rear main seal and oil pan gaskets. I will see what I find when I get it apart, but I think the rear main is definitely leaking. Do I REALLY need that special Kent Moore tool to install the latest version of the seal - I have found it online for around $350+ which is an awful lot to spend for a one time, 2 minute use. Any thought or ideas are appreciated

parts68
10-18-07, 07:29 PM
If I remember right they gave me an install tool with the seal.
I think I just used it with a block of wood
no leaks so far(fingers crossed) 19 months and counting.

tateos
10-18-07, 08:20 PM
Oh - really? That is amazing. So the installer comes with the rear main bearing seal when purchased from the dealer? Can anyone else conform that? Did you do a case half reseal also? If so, did you change the main bearings? I think I read they must be replaced if the crankcase is separated?

parts68
10-19-07, 06:47 AM
All I know is that I installed a seal,it was over 18 months ago and still doesnt leak and I didnt buy anything
to install it. It must have been uneventful or I would have remembered it(CRS has set in).
I still have this blue ring left over so it must be the install tool provided with the new style seal.
I didnt do a case half seal,this one didnt leak there,and car has 120K.

tateos
10-19-07, 07:36 PM
Thanks for the reply Parts 68 - I will be starting on this project soon, so we'll see what I find once I begin removal and disassembly