: Is 5.0 really that bad?



arivera
09-16-07, 10:38 PM
I've been window shopping online and I see some great deals on 87-92 Fleetwood Broughams with the 5.0 L engine. I know I'd rather wait for a great find with a 5.7, but should I totally dismiss the 5.0 totally?

After 5 years of searching, I found a great deal on a 93 Fleetwood in triple black, non vinyl top. It unfortunately came with an L05 instead of the favored LT1, and now I kind-of-sort-of-in-a-way regret not waiting some more to get an LT1 Caddy. I don't want to make the same mistake again.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Art:leghump:

Spock
09-16-07, 11:03 PM
How are they bad? From 86-89, they had the olds 307 which many call bulletproof. Then comes the L05 which I can't find a reason to find to say its bad either.

The only complaint that I can hear is that both engines are "underpowered" for the size of car, but then what can one really except from a land yacht that isn't from the 70's and 60's? They were created at a time where gas prices and environmental reasons made them they way they are. Is your concern one of performance or workmanship?

arivera
09-18-07, 03:36 PM
Workmanship, I guess. I'm not racing or showboating or anything like that. I just want a nice Caddy where I don't feel like I'm exhausting the engine. Know what I mean?

96Fleetwood
09-18-07, 04:30 PM
Did you see this one?

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bar/423454670.html

I have the 5.0 liter in my wagon and my 1992 Fleetwood. Not a powerhouse by any means, but it is a nice reliable motor.

Night Wolf
09-18-07, 04:46 PM
1993 should have a 350 TBI, no LT1 option.

Yes, 2 different 5.0's '86-'90 is Olds 307, '91/'92 is Chevy 305.

Both are very reliable engines, and the biggest complaint is underpowered.... however they do pull the car around perfectly fine, around town there is plenty of power.... just highway passing power, towing/hauling, or trying to accelerate hard going over a ountain etc.... will show you the limits to the engine.

arivera
09-20-07, 02:28 PM
Did you see this one?

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bar/423454670.html



Yeah I checked that one out. I'm looking for the last year of the box Caddies.

I just want a nice one a can maybe fix up a little, and cruise it. No daily driver, no trailer queen. just wanna hit the bars and the clubs and the movies in it.

I'd probably keep my 93 as the daily driver, as I'm putting all of my money into fixing it up to last me.

I just figured there was a mechanical defect with the 5.0's. That's what I though the reason was for all these cars not selling as fast as 5.7's.

Spock
09-21-07, 03:05 PM
In fact doesn't the whole 5.7 have a slew of problems of it's own? Reverse cooling, water pump right above the optispark....OPTISPARK?!

arivera
09-21-07, 05:52 PM
I got an L05 in my 93. I wouldn't know about those problems...

Night Wolf
09-21-07, 08:01 PM
In fact doesn't the whole 5.7 have a slew of problems of it's own? Reverse cooling, water pump right above the optispark....OPTISPARK?!

Thats the LT1, '94-96, NOT the normal Chevy 350 TBI from '90-'93

Night Wolf
09-21-07, 08:03 PM
Yeah I checked that one out. I'm looking for the last year of the box Caddies.

I just want a nice one a can maybe fix up a little, and cruise it. No daily driver, no trailer queen. just wanna hit the bars and the clubs and the movies in it.

I'd probably keep my 93 as the daily driver, as I'm putting all of my money into fixing it up to last me.

I just figured there was a mechanical defect with the 5.0's. That's what I though the reason was for all these cars not selling as fast as 5.7's.

Nope.... 5.7 is more powerful then 5.0.... soooo.... people want it.

If you want a mint car for a lower price, slightly better gas mileage, and same, if not slightly reliability... then the 5.0 is a great alternative to the 5.7

96Fleetwood
09-21-07, 08:29 PM
5.0 is great for daily driving. I have been driving my 5.0 liter TBI wagon for 2 months and now my 5.0 liter TBI Brougham for 4 days... perfect.

arivera
09-22-07, 07:32 PM
I'm on the highway a lot. Am I going to be disappointed by the difference between a 5.0 and my L05?
I guess that's the main question.

96Fleetwood
09-22-07, 07:40 PM
No, you shouldn't be that affected from a L05 to a L03. If it was a LT1 to L03 or L05 to 307.. then that would be a big difference!

Night Wolf
09-23-07, 12:12 AM
either 5.0 will be fine for in town driving, or highway crusing..... its when you ask it to move the large car around fast, tow something or pass truckers going up a mountain, that you'll notice the limitations.

MadCaddie69
11-05-07, 02:59 PM
Which is why I'm swapping mine for an Olds 350. :thumbsup:

My_favorite_Brougham
11-05-07, 10:35 PM
I don't know what yall mean, calling the L05 underpowered. I test-drove a '92 5.0 and it was mighty powerful, moreso than the 4.9 is in my '91 Coupe Deville. It would throw you back in your seat and it's over a 1000 pounds heavier than the my fwd. Maybe there was more low-end torque, as I felt that in my 307 Bro.

Night Wolf
11-06-07, 06:51 AM
I don't know what yall mean, calling the L05 underpowered. I test-drove a '92 5.0 and it was mighty powerful, moreso than the 4.9 is in my '91 Coupe Deville. It would throw you back in your seat and it's over a 1000 pounds heavier than the my fwd. Maybe there was more low-end torque, as I felt that in my 307 Bro.

Something must be wrong with your 4.9...... cause a 4.9 FWD DeVille, especially the '91-'93 (lightest years) should be faster then any '90-'93 5.7 Brougham..... much less a 5.0 Brougham, especially when talking right off the line torque and acceleration... 4.9 has a better torque curve, gearing is about equal, but the car weighs a lot less.

96Fleetwood
11-06-07, 08:29 AM
You sure you are not experiencing the uber sensitive gas pedal on these older Broughams that give you the false illusion of super speed from 0-20?

My_favorite_Brougham
11-06-07, 04:16 PM
Maybe it was just the big car feel; oh, and my 4.9 coupe does have an exhaust leak between the throttle-body and the block. That'll be one of my weekend projects. ;)

And as for an illusion, I'd be happy with that. .....man I miss my Brougham (307) even though it did 0-20 in about 30sec. (and yes I did mean 20...lol) The next will be chevy-powered

SupRNatural
11-30-07, 05:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuKYBb9wPDs

Here's an already :suspense: half dead 5.0 Chevy with no oil, and coolant.:suspense: Make an assumption on the engine.:ill:

IndyBrougham
12-02-07, 07:32 PM
I have the 307 Olds...and it's pretty different than either the TBI 305 or the TBI 5.7. Not that anyone else will notice, but you have to keep your foot pressed in the carpet to get it to go with any urgency - but it does go if you push it.

It is smooth and quiet and reliable though.

Cadillac Giovanni
12-02-07, 10:07 PM
Indeed. I like the 307. It's more powerful than people give it credit for, especially when tuned and cared for properly. Lots of torque helps out.

Chances are if you bought a Cadillac, you weren't looking for a race car anyway.

Wheelman322
01-25-08, 11:50 PM
I've had plenty of LO5 350's and LO3 305's. It's funny because every one feels differant. My current 91 LO5 FWB feels like a rocket, yet my 93 Caprice 9C1 felt lethargic over 65mph. 2 days ago I picked up a 91 LO3 for a friend and it felt strong between 80-100 mph. Even my friend who was following me commented that he had to stomp the pedal on his 05 TL to stay with me. As far as the 350 Broughams ability to keep up with a 91 4.9 Deville...The jurys still out. I had a 91 and it was strong off the line...I think from 30 ^ the Brougham would hang.

arivera
01-29-08, 09:02 PM
My L05 is getting close to 200k, so I'm figuring if I should spend the money to rebuild and light mod, or do away with it and get a low mile LT1. I'm done with my search for a 90-92 fwb 5.0. At least for now...

N0DIH
01-30-08, 07:07 PM
My LT1 just crossed 242K, shooting for the magical quarter million mark coming up in about 2 months.

The L03's and L05's are decent for reliability, not real power houses, mainly because of the small cams and high swirl heads that were very restrictive to air flow. Do some port work or axle the heads for some Fast Burns or Vortecs and you have an engine that will REALLY wake up. Look at the Gen III V8's (LS1 style V8), they make silly amounts of power with a very small cam. 350 hp net with a cam in the 200 degree range with 0.500 lift. The LT1 was 300 hp with 204 degrees duration and 0.450 lift. The LT4 only made 345 hp with 206-210 duration and 0.500ish lift... The LS1 beat that... Not bad, not bad at all....

The L05 with a Vortec head and 92-97 Z28/Vette/TA LT1 cam should easily be able to make 300 net hp... EASY. As long as you have good dual exhaust and good intake like the Edelbrock performer and a well tuned EFI or well tune carbie.

Expect 250hp with a L03 with the same combo...

Faded Crest
04-14-08, 08:39 PM
Nothing wrong with the 307 or the 305. If I found a clean Brougham, that certainly would NOT stand in the way... In fact my own '91 has the 5.0 and I'm just fine with it. Broughams were luxury liners. More power is great, but it wouldn't be the deal breaker for me! Have had plenty of 307 Broughams over the years, and they are TANKS! They use almost no oil and they are incredibly reliable.

kentuckygent
08-27-08, 01:04 PM
I just bought a 87 Brougham with the 307 and was really unimpressed with the power but it was something I could live with. I finally got around to putting plugs in it yesterday and what a difference that made. The old girl now has a little pep in her step, as many have said this is a reliable engine with a proven track record.

N0DIH
08-30-08, 06:40 PM
Look at it this way, a 305 or 307, is still an upgrade path to a visually identical 350, 383, 400 or 403 (depending on brand) or even 425 or 455 with minor visual discrepancies (for 307 cars).

For me, one of these days if I get one, I will probably go with a 455 or 482 Olds and keep it looking stock yet, be a torque monster....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-31-08, 01:48 AM
482 Olds?

N0DIH
08-31-08, 01:57 AM
Non stock, 455 block with stroker crank and bored block.... Was at the track last night and watched a few run (they guys I was there with) and they were running mid- to low 10's working on dialing them in. Nothing like seeing a G-Body wagon screaming straight as an arrow at those speeds.... Or a 71 442/W30, and a 71 with 72 grills/taillights.... All were cooking...

somename
09-11-08, 09:21 AM
I know very few people who have had anything to complain about a Olds "Rocket V-8" don't forget the 90 is the last one of those. Just a conversation topic.

You want underpowered get a 4.1. At least the 307 has the torque to move a 4200 pound car from a dead stop, the 249 has a 3.42:1 final drive ratio, takes off like a rocket when you take your foot off the brake, but it needs that just to get started. And has no power, absolutely none around 60. Step on the gas and it slows down, almost.

I forget weather the 307 came with 3.08 or 2.73 rear gears. Both are far favorable for highway driving, and can cruise all day at 70-80.

N0DIH
09-11-08, 10:44 AM
Like I said ages ago, best low buck mod to a 307 powered Cad is grab a 4100 3.42 axle... Or get one from a high alt car, 3.73....

They are all 7.5", but who cars, they will take a lot of punishment honestly. Don't use slicks and don't tow heavy and it will live a long time. If it spins when you punch (hahahahahahaha) it, then let it, don't let it hook....

The 307 is a tough engine, good ring seal, lasts a long time with no issues. Only issues I ever knew of, intakes would leak and new gaskets needed from time to time and EGR stack tubes under carb would carbon up and cause pinging issues because EGR flow was so diminished. Fix that and it runs great again.

Ahh one of these days I wanna get me a light car like a Olds Starfire and drop a built 307 in.... Do it up right. A 350 Olds is still a better foundation to start with, but 307's have a small 3.8L Buick sized bore, so airflow is lacking, good rod length, good stroke, just smallish bore is its main characteristic that is dooming it from making good hp.

But anyone who says it can't be built needs to watch a 305 Chevy. They can do pretty well, they have a smaller bore. Do the same type things to a 307 as a 305 and you will get similar results. Still if you are going through the trouble of building it up, a 350 Olds is just better economically.

Scraped Knuckles
01-17-09, 05:33 PM
The 305 TBI was rated at 170 Hp the 350 TBI was rated at 190 HP ooh big difference yes the 350 has more torque but if you Hotrods 305 to 350 comparison you would see the really isn't much difference. You could swap in a 383 stroker and the 454 has the same trans bolt patern, it just depends on how much power you need versus how much power you want. The Olds doesn't really have a small block big block set up like Chevy despite people refering to them as that. It's more of a short stroke long stroke deal like Pontiac. But Olds uses a shorter stroke for smaller engines and long stroke for large engines as opposed to Pontiac's small bore large bore. Meaning a 455 Olds will drop right in place of the 307 same engine mounts and all ( just need a bigger rad and dual exhaust). You can even swap heads from big block to small block Olds, though you'll have to machine them so the intake manifold fits or buy the Performer RPM intake Edelbrock makes for using the RPM aluminum big block cylinderheads on a small block Olds.

87allante4.9swap
06-09-09, 05:19 PM
Maybe it was just the big car feel; oh, and my 4.9 coupe does have an exhaust leak between the throttle-body and the block. That'll be one of my weekend projects. ;)

And as for an illusion, I'd be happy with that. .....man I miss my Brougham (307) even though it did 0-20 in about 30sec. (and yes I did mean 20...lol) The next will be chevy-powered

My brother had a beige 86 Brougham with the 307 and this is the truth. Slowest car i've ever been in..... The 4.1 is underpowered for those big Fleetwoods, but at 170hp in my Allante it's quick to break lose.

generaltso64
06-23-10, 11:17 AM
How are they bad? From 86-89, they had the olds 307 which many call bulletproof. Then comes the L05 which I can't find a reason to find to say its bad either.

The only complaint that I can hear is that both engines are "underpowered" for the size of car, but then what can one really except from a land yacht that isn't from the 70's and 60's? They were created at a time where gas prices and environmental reasons made them they way they are. Is your concern one of performance or workmanship?

Well, its not a racecar....usually the people that have power problems have a bad torque converter solenoid. Mine has 170,000 and still going strong. still gets 20mpg too. Sounds good with duals on it as well.

generaltso64
06-23-10, 11:30 AM
you sure you are not experiencing the uber sensitive gas pedal on these older broughams that give you the false illusion of super speed from 0-20?

lmao

longo
06-30-10, 11:20 AM
On my 89 brougham with 307 I upped the timing a couple degrees, put in dual snorkel setup, tweaked the carb a little and put on dual exhaust as well. Pulls better than my 305 caprice ever did and sounds sweet as well. No complaints.

JLanzino
02-09-12, 01:15 PM
I just picked up a 89 Cadillac Brougham d'Elegance with an Olds 307, It Starts & Drives Great!! Most comfortable vehicle I own lol But Pick up wise its slow My 87 Caprice Classic Brougham Picks up faster with the same 307 motor only difference is Caddy has 57000KM & Caprice Has 314000KM. These Caddys Are Heavy Luxury Cars So The 307 takes a bit longer, Caprice is Lighter, & My Caprice & d'Elegange Are the same length same size But The Caddy is Heavier by far lol. I am a Chev Man preder the Chev 350 to a 307 but 350, 305 & 307 all Great GM Motors

78seville455
04-24-12, 12:15 PM
The olds 307/350 were Not bad engines..... Notorious for wearing out or breaking teeth off timing gear as they get up in miles/age. Egr cloggings etc. the major problem with any olds small block is after '75 they switched to light weight blocks, which are weaker. And also Pontiac head castings. Bigger cams.... I.e. towing/ mild street, and bumping the comp ratio will really wake it up. Headers and intake/ carb will def help too. A breathing engine is a happy engine.