: I'm Back! Caliper Question!



DopeStar 156
09-16-07, 03:18 PM
To make a long story short I haven't had much time to fool around with any of my cars, but I found some today.

I started tackling the frozen brake on my 76 DeVille and turns out the caliper is frozen. I C-Clamped the piston and got nothing and it looks like I'm gonna need a new caliper. For the time being I removed both brake pads so I can at least move the car CAREFULLY in my driveway with three functioning brakes. So being in the market for a caliper I'm looking for a low cost solution to my problem and I have these ideas.......

- Get one from a junkyard
- Get a rebuilt one (Where would I?)
- Buy a new caliper ($$$:crying:$$$)

I wanna go to the junkyard and pull one but is it reccomended? Which method could/should I do to accomplish my goal?

BRICKS
09-16-07, 03:21 PM
id say either hit the junkyard or go with a rebuilt one. only faults on getting one from the junkyard is the reality it might be trash. good luck.

DopeStar 156
09-16-07, 03:31 PM
id say either hit the junkyard or go with a rebuilt one. only faults on getting one from the junkyard is the reality it might be trash. good luck.

True. But if I C-Clamp test one from a junkyard and it compresses shouldn't it be fine? Also what the price for a rebuilt one?

jayoldschool
09-16-07, 04:26 PM
Rebuilt calipers are DIRT cheap at parts places. Think 30 bucks. Take your old one in, and give it back with the box for the new one and you won't have to pay a core charge:D

carnut
09-16-07, 07:58 PM
While I understand you're being a really cheap mechanic, and I'm the first one to the wrecking yard for parts, I would NEVER purchase brake parts there. Chances are its as old as the one being replaced and you'll end up doing it again soon! Buy a rebuilt and if were my car I'd buy two (same age, same chance for failure at 70 MPH!) They sieze primarily from never having the fluid flushed or the rubber brake hose to it flakes off internally restricting fluid flow back to the master cyl. I will never use used brake parts! Most rebuilds come with new pads already installed, called "loaded" calipers. JUST MY OPINION!

Cadillac Giovanni
09-17-07, 01:29 AM
I'm not a fan of any used parts. I've had it bite me in the ass too many times, when just a month or two later, the thing I replaced goes south on me yet again.

I love buying new stuff, even if I have to drop some serious coin. It gives me the peace of mind that whatever I just replaced will last for a long time to come, and I'm that much closer to COMPLETELY restoring my car (haw haw).

Rebuilt calipers certainly aren't expensive, and it's probably the way to go if you need the part and you're pinching pennies.

DopeStar 156
09-17-07, 01:40 AM
I priced a rebuilt one for under $30 at Auto Zone so I'm gonna go for that. Is there a way to sell my siezed one to a reman company rather than just trading it in? Would putting it up on ebay also be an option? No listing fees until Sept 30th........

carnut
09-17-07, 03:03 PM
Boy!! someone cheaper than me!! Buy 2 not one. Replace the flex hose to both at the differential, flush the system. Why would someone purchase a siezed caliper when they're $30.00 new??

deVille33
09-17-07, 08:50 PM
I have gone to the junkyards and found cars with complete replaced brake systems, from the master to all pads and shoes. In these cases I've taken everything. I didn't go for that, but when I go to the yards, I go for the day.

jayoldschool
09-17-07, 08:59 PM
I priced a rebuilt one for under $30 at Auto Zone so I'm gonna go for that. Is there a way to sell my siezed one to a reman company rather than just trading it in? Would putting it up on ebay also be an option? No listing fees until Sept 30th........


LOL... you ARE selling it to a reman company when you "trade it in". What do you think they are going to do with it. If you think you can get more on ebay that what you are going to pay extra for not having a core, go for it. I'll tell you right now, you are going to lose money.

DopeStar 156
09-17-07, 09:10 PM
LOL... you ARE selling it to a reman company when you "trade it in". What do you think they are going to do with it. If you think you can get more on ebay that what you are going to pay extra for not having a core, go for it. I'll tell you right now, you are going to lose money.

I'll most likely trade it in then. How do I go about removing and installing the caliper? WHat are the steps involved. No FSM for the 76.....

jayoldschool
09-17-07, 11:39 PM
I'll most likely trade it in then. How do I go about removing and installing the caliper? WHat are the steps involved. No FSM for the 76.....

Exact same as the 89. Remove two allen bolts, take off caliper. Remove line. Take out sliders, clean, lube, make sure they slide so the caliper doesn't stick. Place new caliper in bracket, torque allen bolts Connect line, bleed.

N0DIH
09-18-07, 10:15 AM
Yup, the 71-76 cars all used the same caliper, the 71-76 cars have a 1.25" thick rotor. The 77-up cars have a 1" thick rotor. The 94-96 9C1 cars got the 71-76 caliper with metric threads and then they put fat pads on ("long life brakes" as it was called for severe service applications like cop car and taxi use). SO, you can use that one (pricey) or a 71-76 caliper. OR if you wanted to sacrifice heat rejection, go with a 77-up rotor and the 77-up calipers (GM did this to lose rotating weight).

You can't fit a 77-up caliper on the 76 with new pads. And the banjo bolt is different, so you need a 77-up banjo too.

I have a 76 Olds FSM if you need anything looked up, as well as a 76 Fisher Body Manual (were Cadillac's Fisher Bodies then??) The chassis is pretty much the same for Cadillac and Olds, so I have all the goodies on the trans, axles, brakes, etc.

DopeStar 156
09-18-07, 08:36 PM
Well, I ordered a remaned caliper through my work and with the core it'll be around $43. Not a bad price, huh?

bicentennialcadillac
09-18-07, 08:48 PM
a 76 Fisher Body Manual (were Cadillac's Fisher Bodies then??)

Yep.

N0DIH
09-18-07, 09:28 PM
When did they switch?

jayoldschool
09-18-07, 09:30 PM
Yup, the 71-76 cars all used the same caliper, the 71-76 cars have a 1.25" thick rotor. The 77-up cars have a 1" thick rotor. The 94-96 9C1 cars got the 71-76 caliper with metric threads and then they put fat pads on ("long life brakes" as it was called for severe service applications like cop car and taxi use). SO, you can use that one (pricey) or a 71-76 caliper. OR if you wanted to sacrifice heat rejection, go with a 77-up rotor and the 77-up calipers (GM did this to lose rotating weight).

You can't fit a 77-up caliper on the 76 with new pads. And the banjo bolt is different, so you need a 77-up banjo too.

I have a 76 Olds FSM if you need anything looked up, as well as a 76 Fisher Body Manual (were Cadillac's Fisher Bodies then??) The chassis is pretty much the same for Cadillac and Olds, so I have all the goodies on the trans, axles, brakes, etc.

The 71-6 rotor does not interchange with 77 up. The spindle and bearings are different.

N0DIH
09-18-07, 11:38 PM
Bill Harper is working on a 1.25" rotor for the B/D cars that has the ABS tone ring, which is required for ABS operation. The Suburban rotor (5x5, C1500) does have different bearings that are larger, but I don't remember on the 71-76 B/C/D cars. IIRC I thought you could use the 71-76 spindle and rotor on a 77-96 car if you wanted. I'll see if I can find Bill to fill in the gaps on what fits what, he knows these suspensions well.

jayoldschool
09-19-07, 08:10 PM
Bill Harper is working on a 1.25" rotor for the B/D cars that has the ABS tone ring, which is required for ABS operation. The Suburban rotor (5x5, C1500) does have different bearings that are larger, but I don't remember on the 71-76 B/C/D cars. IIRC I thought you could use the 71-76 spindle and rotor on a 77-96 car if you wanted. I'll see if I can find Bill to fill in the gaps on what fits what, he knows these suspensions well.

I can speak from experience, and confirmed by Bill, that the early one doesn't work on 77-up. I tried the later rotors for my 71 Pontiac Parisienne (Bonneville) because I was going with a 4.75 bolt pattern. Very obvious as soon as I looked at the rotor in the box when compared to the other one that it wasn't going to work. I would love to put the 1.25 rotors on my 95 Impala SS - those early thick rotors are fantastic! They never warp. I deleted the ABS and don't need the tone ring, so I would consider swapping spindles in from the 71-6 cars to do it...

N0DIH
09-19-07, 11:21 PM
Well then you can do the easy mod, just toss on the late 95-96 9C1/9C6/Limo spindles on the 71 car. They share the same 5/8" ball joint.... I would keep the 71 car with the big 5/8" ball joints, not the pathetic F-Body 9/16" joint the bean counters made the 77-96 cars run....

ShokleyMobile1972
09-20-07, 12:33 AM
Sometimes you get them for less than $30 if you buy both. Also, at Kragen you get $5 off if you order it online and pick it up in the store. The flex hoses are also important. The clog more frequently than the calipers seize.

DopeStar 156
09-22-07, 08:38 PM
I got a rebuilt caliper for an amazing $25 through my work. I'll let everyone know how it works out when I put it in tomorrow......

DopeStar 156
09-23-07, 02:19 PM
Well I put it in and everything seems ok. I forgot to put on this little brass washer that fits between the brake line and the caliper. Will that make any difference?

carnut
09-23-07, 04:26 PM
Thats a crush washer that just keeps the fluid from leaking out!! You should never have extra parts when repairing brakes!!

DopeStar 156
09-23-07, 09:05 PM
Thats a crush washer that just keeps the fluid from leaking out!! You should never have extra parts when repairing brakes!!

I didn't notice it until after I was done. The thing was on the ground in a puddle of brake fluid that formed while I was fighting to get the brake line to thread onto the new caliper. It must've fallen off when I removed the brake line. I had driven it to a few places today and didn't notice and puddles of fluid and it had been parked for a while each time so it seems to be holding brake fluid. I also wanna retract my previous post because I drove my Fleetwood later on noticed that by comparison the pedal in the DeVille has more travel than it did before, and I bled the system, would this washer be the reason why?

carnut
09-23-07, 09:39 PM
Could be? Could be sucking air as it retracts. Also if the caliper slides are not clean and lubed the caliper can be slow to slide causing a low pedal. Are the pads the same left to right? If not, the friction, grip could be different also causing a low pedal.

jayoldschool
09-23-07, 10:12 PM
Dopestar, you are starting to scare me. Seriously. Please, please, fix your brakes, and check out a service manual. Even a Haynes.

N0DIH
09-24-07, 12:17 AM
Been there done that. I got a caliper that didn't get the brass washer years ago from AutoShack, and found out the old ones were stuck to the old calipers. I found out around 70 mph the brakes were running out of fluid.... E-Brake saved my bacon..... Nothing worse trying to stop from 70 mph with only the e-brake.... Downhill.... In St. Louis, US40 at Clarkson Rd/Olive Rd exit going west, if you live there, you probably know the hill...... I learned quick about the brass washer....

DopeStar 156
09-24-07, 01:24 AM
Dopestar, you are starting to scare me. Seriously. Please, please, fix your brakes, and check out a service manual. Even a Haynes.

RE-laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax. I'm putting it on tomorrow and its not like the car gets driven. It's unregistered, the road test consisted of a 30 second trip down the block to my Aunt's and a friend's and the brakes worked well enough to stop the car when needed. It was my first shot at doing this and I missed a step but for a first attempt I'm pretty impressed with how smoothly nearly everything went.........

Washer's going on tomorrow morning. My question is, do I have to remove the caliper to detatch/attach the brake line? When I did it the first time I held the line and spun the caliper which was a pain in the ass. Does the end spin while the line stays in place? Think like attaching a spout or sprinkler to a garden hose via that little collar, or do I have to pull the pins and spin the caliper while drenching my hand in brake fluid again?

N0DIH
09-24-07, 09:45 AM
No removal of caliper is needed, just turn the wheel as needed to access it, then unscrew hollow bolt (Banjo bolt IIRC), put the washer on, and tighten back up to spec. And bleed the brakes again, starting with the farthest caliper first.

It should come off easy this time, the old ones are usually stuck.

As for bleeding, I put a box end wrench on the bleeder, stick a hose on the bleeder if I want to keep from being messy (I don't always care), I usually just put a oil drain pan under the caliper. Just don't get the oil on the pads/rotor surface. Have someone pump up the brakes (pump them 3-4x) and then hold the pedal on the floor with the other foot or a 2x4 under the pedal so it doesn't drop too far, then open the bleeder and and then close it before air can get back in. Repeat 20+ times or till you are 100% confident all the air is out of the lines. As you get closer to being done I open the bleeder less and less. DO NOT let the person pumping release the pedal until the bleeder is closed.

jayoldschool
09-24-07, 02:28 PM
lol... I'm relaxed. I just don't want you to kill yourself. Or wreck your Cad;)

Keep us posted...

DopeStar 156
09-24-07, 04:17 PM
No removal of caliper is needed, just turn the wheel as needed to access it, then unscrew hollow bolt (Banjo bolt IIRC), put the washer on, and tighten back up to spec. And bleed the brakes again, starting with the farthest caliper first.

It should come off easy this time, the old ones are usually stuck.

As for bleeding, I put a box end wrench on the bleeder, stick a hose on the bleeder if I want to keep from being messy (I don't always care), I usually just put a oil drain pan under the caliper. Just don't get the oil on the pads/rotor surface. Have someone pump up the brakes (pump them 3-4x) and then hold the pedal on the floor with the other foot or a 2x4 under the pedal so it doesn't drop too far, then open the bleeder and and then close it before air can get back in. Repeat 20+ times or till you are 100% confident all the air is out of the lines. As you get closer to being done I open the bleeder less and less. DO NOT let the person pumping release the pedal until the bleeder is closed.

Ok, this explains why I still have a soft pedal. I was having my assistant pump like 6 times and hold the pedal, and I had the bleeder open until it stopped pissing fluid and I only did it like 10 times. That and I also only bled the passenger front since that's the only place where I disturbed the brakes. Do I have to bleed the driver's front too?

DopeStar 156
09-24-07, 04:18 PM
lol... I'm relaxed. I just don't want you to kill yourself. Or wreck your Cad;)

Keep us posted...

Thanks! :D

N0DIH
09-24-07, 04:40 PM
You only need to do the one you mess with, unless of course you let the master cyl run dry when bleeding, then you need to do all that got uncovered.

I have found to bleed the crap out of it, to a point where the fluid is running fairly clear (the color you put in) to ensure lots of fresh fluid is there. It is easy to break off bleeders, so I don't recommend messing with ones unless you already know you can get them loose. I broke both off the front of my 94 FW.... Had to replace the calipers to get new bleeders, they were pretty bad. But @ $15 each not too bad....

DopeStar 156
09-25-07, 09:42 AM
You only need to do the one you mess with, unless of course you let the master cyl run dry when bleeding, then you need to do all that got uncovered.

Shit.... Well that happened. I did accidentally drain the master cylinder and just refilled it. So I guess I have to bleed both fronts now? If that is the case, do you do them one at a time, or do I need to recruit more people and do both left and right at the same time?

jayoldschool
09-25-07, 06:42 PM
Shit.... Well that happened. I did accidentally drain the master cylinder and just refilled it. So I guess I have to bleed both fronts now? If that is the case, do you do them one at a time, or do I need to recruit more people and do both left and right at the same time?

You do all four wheels, in this order:
- right rear
- left rear
- right front
- left front

You are going to be the brakes guru when you are all done this...:D

Use a glass jar with a tube to go over the bleeder screws. Put some fresh brake fluid in the jar halfway up the tube. Open the bleeder screw, push and HOLD brakes. Watch for bubbles in the jar. Close bleeder. Repeat until no bubbles and NO BLACK brake fluid is coming out. DON'T let that MC go dry (you already know that). Do each wheel. Be amazed how good your brakes feel when you are done.

While you are at this, make sure that you check all the other hardware. Rear shoes/drums/springs/star wheels, etc, and the sliders on the other front caliper (and pads).

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/8066/rear48.jpg

N0DIH
09-25-07, 08:55 PM
As much as I hate bleeding, the results are SOOO rewarding. Knowing the results makes it almost fun. Note that I said almost. I dread bleeding brakes.....