: NAV DVD Disc Update!



dkozloski
09-14-07, 12:46 AM
I laid out $199 for a NAV update disc I was supposed to get for free and I'll just be damned if there isn't road map data for Alaska. It's now on two DVD discs and says ver.4.00 on it. That's the good news. The bad news is that there is no index for Alaska addresses. You can't input addresses or anything else through the keypad. The only way you can input a destination is to scroll the map data to the place you want to go and set a waypoint with your finger. If you've never been there and don't know the way you're SOL. There's no index region to set for Alaska. I'll give them a call in the morning and see if there's some secret but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Lifer
09-14-07, 11:11 AM
Bitch, Bitch, Bitch. Are you never satisfied?

jgrade
09-14-07, 11:11 AM
Yeah, but can you input longitude and latitude? Is this just about the most worthless feature ever? Good luck on getting AK data. Any chance it is part of another disc set like Canada. I know that would incredibly stupid, but hey.... I once tried to purchase tickets for a fund raiser and have them sent to New Mexico. The operator would not compete the order because he said the tickets could not be shipped out of the country (USA)! No amount of arguing would convince him that NM was part of the 50 states.

dkozloski
09-14-07, 11:59 AM
Yeah, but can you input longitude and latitude? Is this just about the most worthless feature ever? Good luck on getting AK data. Any chance it is part of another disc set like Canada. I know that would incredibly stupid, but hey.... I once tried to purchase tickets for a fund raiser and have them sent to New Mexico. The operator would not compete the order because he said the tickets could not be shipped out of the country (USA)! No amount of arguing would convince him that NM was part of the 50 states.
It's now a two disk set. The same road map data is on both discs and includes Alaska. The POI data and indexes are for East and West states and Canada. There is no Alaska region and it isn't included on either disk. To input a destination you have to select a region. As you type your destination into the keypad the Nav completes your selection from the choices in the index for the region. It ain't there for Alaska. The GPS found my house okay and I can input a destination in Iowa but I can't input a destination in the next town. I have to scroll the map to where I want to go then push the destination icon. It's better than it was. Thank the Lord for small favors.

BooYaKa
09-14-07, 03:10 PM
whats the need for two discs? just curious as to why the change

Bee iLL
09-14-07, 03:50 PM
Probably more POI's and Road Map data. My Pionner aftermarket navigation went the same way, from 1 to 2 discs, though that was in like 2000....

dkozloski
09-14-07, 04:32 PM
The same road map data is on both disks. The indexes and POI data are different between the two with some overlap.

Skibanker
09-14-07, 05:48 PM
OK. I'm confused. Why would there be two disks if the basic road info is the same? You have to look at the first, read the POIs, eject the first and insert the second to see if there's any extra POI's? I'm missing something here. Or is one disk the POI for Eastern states and the other for POI Western states?

dkozloski
09-14-07, 06:52 PM
OK. I'm confused. Why would there be two disks if the basic road info is the same? You have to look at the first, read the POIs, eject the first and insert the second to see if there's any extra POI's? I'm missing something here. Or is one disk the POI for Eastern states and the other for POI Western states?
One disk is East. The other disk is West with some overlaps in the middle.

BooYaKa
09-14-07, 10:24 PM
do you think that would make it alot more detailed? i have version 2.00 would it be worth if for the upgrade?

captblue
09-14-07, 11:18 PM
I just got version 4 in the mail. Up to now I was using version 1. It seems to me that v.4 has a logic problem. v1 has no problem with guidance where I live in Georgia, as soon as I installed v.4 it now does everything poorly. As an example; even though it knows what roads I am on and shows all area roads correctly it now says guidance is not provided in this area or something like that. I can be 2 miles from my home and input my address and it takes me on a 9 to 10 mile journey. When all I have to do is make two turns on just one road and be in my driveway! Also, if I don't follow the guidance v.1 would continuously recalculate another route now v.4 just gives up and keeps telling me to make a u turn and only follows the wrong route. Also I selected two restaraunts that have been here for 10 years or more and the stupid thing took me to a wooded area and said "you have arrived at your destination" It's woods, there has never been anything there!
Those are but a few problems I have noticed. I put v.1 back in the car and it works great. Anyone else having problems with v.4. I'm thinking about sending mine back to the mfgr. I was hoping that the jump from v.1 to v.4 and all the updated info would be great but it was a huge step backwards.

jhelms
09-17-07, 12:28 PM
I just got version 4 in the mail. Up to now I was using version 1. It seems to me that v.4 has a logic problem. v1 has no problem with guidance where I live in Georgia, as soon as I installed v.4 it now does everything poorly. As an example; even though it knows what roads I am on and shows all area roads correctly it now says guidance is not provided in this area or something like that. I can be 2 miles from my home and input my address and it takes me on a 9 to 10 mile journey. When all I have to do is make two turns on just one road and be in my driveway! Also, if I don't follow the guidance v.1 would continuously recalculate another route now v.4 just gives up and keeps telling me to make a u turn and only follows the wrong route. Also I selected two restaraunts that have been here for 10 years or more and the stupid thing took me to a wooded area and said "you have arrived at your destination" It's woods, there has never been anything there!
Those are but a few problems I have noticed. I put v.1 back in the car and it works great. Anyone else having problems with v.4. I'm thinking about sending mine back to the mfgr. I was hoping that the jump from v.1 to v.4 and all the updated info would be great but it was a huge step backwards.



That sucks! Where in GA are you?

captblue
09-17-07, 04:46 PM
Newnan, about 30 south of Atlanta.
Has anyone else had problems with v.4 yet?
Thanks.

BMBSALES
11-28-07, 09:00 PM
Newnan, about 30 south of Atlanta.
Has anyone else had problems with v.4 yet?
Thanks.

mine is on the way, and i'm really hoping yours is an isolated case.

when i called, they said they had problems with disks, and new ones would not be avail until almost x-mas time.

cooncat
11-28-07, 09:19 PM
I just got my new disks in the mail last week. So are you telling me I am going to have problems with it or will mine have the new updates?

Also, have you seen the navigation system in the 2008 CTS? My salesman showed it to me, pretty cool.

sigmajam
11-28-07, 10:27 PM
I just got the card advertising the new disks. I was hoping maybe they had updated the software to fix that horrendous user interface, but I guess no dice. Mine has always worked like Captblue describes - it shows the roads, but tells you no voice guidance will be provided from this point on as soon as you're about a mile from your destination. What really bugs me is that I have a Pocket PC with $100 iGuidance software. It uses the same maps, but provides voice guidance everywhere and is so much easier to use. Now I use the shelf under my Nav screen just to hold my Pocket PC with usable Navigation software.

dkozloski
11-29-07, 12:51 AM
I just got the card advertising the new disks. I was hoping maybe they had updated the software to fix that horrendous user interface, but I guess no dice. Mine has always worked like Captblue describes - it shows the roads, but tells you no voice guidance will be provided from this point on as soon as you're about a mile from your destination. What really bugs me is that I have a Pocket PC with $100 iGuidance software. It uses the same maps, but provides voice guidance everywhere and is so much easier to use. Now I use the shelf under my Nav screen just to hold my Pocket PC with usable Navigation software.
You must really live out in the sticks. Here in Fairbanks, Alaska I get voice guidance clear out to the sewage treatment plant behind the Metro Field industrial area.

AllWheelEric
11-29-07, 02:01 PM
Captblue, it sounds like you're in an area of "limited coverage," where routing is not supported. Perhaps they changed the boundary of detailed coverage and that's why you see this odd behavior.

I think all you guys unhappy with your v4 disks should give them to the owner of a 2005 (we don't get free updates). I'm willing to test the functionality of the New Jersey data for you! The test will take about 2 years.

sigmajam
11-29-07, 07:54 PM
Who do you think defines suburban Atlanta and Cleveland as areas of "limited coverage" but allows you voice prompts to the sewage treatment plant in Fairbanks? I think my Pocket PC and the unit in the STS both use Navteq maps. If it works flawlessly on my $100 Pocket PC software, why can't Cadillac get it right on a $50K car?

dkozloski
11-29-07, 10:51 PM
Cadillac gets their map data from Tele Atlas. They don't respond to requests for information from a common slob.

dkozloski
11-29-07, 10:53 PM
Who do you think defines suburban Atlanta and Cleveland as areas of "limited coverage" but allows you voice prompts to the sewage treatment plant in Fairbanks? I think my Pocket PC and the unit in the STS both use Navteq maps. If it works flawlessly on my $100 Pocket PC software, why can't Cadillac get it right on a $50K car?
For about 1/2 the trip between Fairbanks and Anchorage the NAV shows you driving on the railroad tracks.
FWIW, The DeLorme software I use on my Palm IIIc shows exactly the same errors so there must be a shared database somewhere that the mapmakers are tapping.

TScottTX
12-03-07, 11:54 AM
I just got version 4 in the mail. Up to now I was using version 1. It seems to me that v.4 has a logic problem. v1 has no problem with guidance where I live in Georgia, as soon as I installed v.4 it now does everything poorly. As an example; even though it knows what roads I am on and shows all area roads correctly it now says guidance is not provided in this area or something like that. I can be 2 miles from my home and input my address and it takes me on a 9 to 10 mile journey. When all I have to do is make two turns on just one road and be in my driveway! Also, if I don't follow the guidance v.1 would continuously recalculate another route now v.4 just gives up and keeps telling me to make a u turn and only follows the wrong route. Also I selected two restaraunts that have been here for 10 years or more and the stupid thing took me to a wooded area and said "you have arrived at your destination" It's woods, there has never been anything there!
Those are but a few problems I have noticed. I put v.1 back in the car and it works great. Anyone else having problems with v.4. I'm thinking about sending mine back to the mfgr. I was hoping that the jump from v.1 to v.4 and all the updated info would be great but it was a huge step backwards.

Big ditto! I just purchased an '08 and compared to my '05 CTS the NAV systems logic is totally inferior. I have the same route recalc U-turn routine that you talk of and the route calculations for simple trips around the Dallas area often come up 20-50% longer than the CTS would calc. Also, the POI icons can clutter the screen so bad you can't see the roads to navigate. Is there not a way to list and choose the POI's while driving as in the CTS rather than showing icons on the map?

dkozloski
12-03-07, 12:08 PM
I find that it doesn't do the same recalc the same way everytime. It appears to have some sort of learning function from previous deviations from the calclated route.

dhemrick
12-03-07, 01:49 PM
I find that it doesn't do the same recalc the same way everytime. It appears to have some sort of learning function from previous deviations from the calclated route.

I have noticed this too. I thought maybe I was imagining it so I'm glad someone else saw this as well.

If I ignore the Nav system's recommendations a few times and my route turns out quicker than the nav calculated, then it starts taking me that route instead from then on.

This is particularly noticeable on highway bypasses around small towns. Although the "business route" thorugh town is shorter by mileage (and presumably if you don't hit traffic quicker as well), there are stoplights, speed traps, traffic, etc which make that route take longer.

Often when I first got the car, it would try to take me through town. Now, it automatically directs me to the bypass.

There must be some kind of weighting factor on each road segment that the nav system uses to figure out how long it will take you to travel that segment. If you take a lot longer or a lot shorter that it's estimate, it does seem to remember and calculate accordingly the next time. I can't find any documentation on this though.

I've ordered my version 4.0 disks, so I'm hoping for an improvement in it's routing decisions.

dkozloski
12-03-07, 03:27 PM
Buried in the preference selections is section where you can select or avoid certain types of roads.

captblue
12-05-07, 02:15 PM
I called the Navdisc center yesterday and they said that they were not aware of any of the problems that I described. They said they would follow up within 72 hours and may send me new disks if they determine that my problems are well founded. I am interested in the discussion about the system actually learning as it goes along, I took the v4 disk out and went back to v1 so maybe I need to put it back in and try again. Any experts with this stuff know for sure if this is really true? Also, I did try changing road settings and the three route thing but it made no difference.

I'll let everyone know what they say in the next couple of days.

Superjim
12-06-07, 07:44 AM
Big ditto!
I have the same route recalc U-turn routine that you talk of and the route calculations for simple trips around the Dallas area often come up 20-50% longer than the CTS would calc.


TScottTX

Just got the 2008 update for my DTS.

It turned off the "USE FREEWAYS and USE TOLLROADS options. :hmm:

After turning them back on... it is a lot better. :burn:

Jim from Texas

AllWheelEric
12-06-07, 11:53 PM
You can report map errors to Cadillac's data vendor. I noticed by reading the copyright notices that they use TeleAtlas data, so I found this link where you can report errors: http://mapinsight.teleatlas.com You can even navigate to the specific part of the map to confirm whether the error has been resolved.

There is an interstate offramp that was built about 12 years ago near my office. The map still shows a partial interchange, where it's always been a full interchange. It makes it hard to show off the voice guidance with the lunch crowd, because the car always tries to direct me to do stupid things. Anyway, I can see this error still exists on the teleatlas web site, so it's not really Cadillac's fault. No carmaker maintains their own map data. There are only a few data vendors, and they even have common sources, such as government data.

BMBSALES
12-09-07, 10:51 PM
coffee houses....NICE poi.

slr001
12-12-07, 05:01 PM
Couple of questions, I am getting ready to buy a used CPO 07 STS.

How do I determine the version of the NAV DVD installed? is it on a start up screen or do I need to find it via the menu somehow?

New STS come with 2 free updates I thought I read, is that true? Any chance that buying a CPO vehicle I can request those some free updates?

Thanks

dhemrick
12-12-07, 07:11 PM
The version number is printed on the disk itself. Eject the disk from the DVD drive (the top one) and look on the face of it.

The very latest version is 4.0 which came out this fall.

captblue
12-13-07, 09:27 PM
I bought an 05 STS CPO in JUly this year and about 2 months later the new disc showed up on my door step. So I'm thinking you should get the free update as well.

On another note, as I posted earlier, the nav disc center said they would respond to my problems within 72 hrs. It's been alot more than that and still no response. I'll let you all know when I find out something.

Buzz48317
12-15-07, 01:13 PM
I ordered the newest version of the software two weeks ago and am still waiting for it. Status shows that the disc is backordered so who knows when I will get it. :hmm: I would not have even bothered with the new software but I live in a new subdivision and not all of the streets are on the old version, and since the update for this year and next year are free and I only have a 2 year lease, I figure what the hay, keep it as updated as possible.

dhemrick
12-16-07, 10:15 AM
I ordered disks for both our STSs and they came within a week.

If your subdivision is very new, I wouldn't hold my breath hoping that the streets are there. They relocated and renamed an existing road near my workplace and built an entire new freeway extension over a year ago, and they still didn't make it onto the version 4.0 disks which I think came out in August of this year.

Onalaska
12-16-07, 11:44 AM
I updated some map errors on the Tele Atlas website mentioned by Eric in an earlier post. It's easy to do and they invite corrections. I'll bet it will take quite a while for the changes to show up on our nav disk updates though. Here is the e-mail response I got.

"Thank you for your feedback on Tele Atlas map data. We appreciate your willingness to help us keep our data fresh, rich, and accurate. We will investigate your issue as soon as possible and update you again when the Tele Atlas data that we believe resolves your issue is released.

To insure that the quality of our data meets the highest standards, the change you have suggested may take several months to be completed. Tele Atlas makes updates to its database every day and the application providers receive new versions of our product every three months. They will integrate the new data into their products and update their maps, which usually takes from a few weeks to a few months, depending on the application provider. Once we inform you about the change in our database, please contact your application provider to learn when the update for your application will be available.

We encourage you to visit the Tele Atlas website and view our presentation that explains in detail how our database is created and maintained. Tele Atlas employs approximately 2,300 full-time staff and contract cartographers at offices in 20 countries around the world and uses a sophisticated network of professional drivers, mobile mapping vans and more than 50,000 data sources to continually update its maps. We also appreciate conscientious users like you who take the time to tell us where we might need to make a change.

Please continue to help us by entering new issue reports at http://mapinsight.teleatlas.com as you discover them.

Thank you again for your feedback.

Best Regards,

Tele Atlas Map Insight Team"

try2k
12-27-07, 12:58 PM
Just Joined the forum in November '07 (I have a '06 STS-V) and missed this thread. I just went to my dealer to have my Nav software updated. There is a TSB on this and it covers voice recognition update from complaints of the system not recognizing vocal imputs. It seems to have solved a lot of my problems and may already be included in the later models. At the same time I asked for the updated Nav database disc. (I never recieived a postcard, but remembered that this was included, when I was shopping for the car. You are entitled to two (2) updates. The second one is available on the 1 year anniversary of your first upgraded disc. (Set) However, when they typed my STS-V VIN number into the Nav Site, it came up as a Buick Enclave. The dealer had to call the Nav people and have them update their records. After that I was allowed to call and order the updated database. Have not received it as yet, but expect to get it this week. So I was surprised to hear that it was a two disc set now. If you have the problem with themm not recognizing your VIN, I would suggest having the dealer update the Nav peoples records before I would shell out $200 for a new disc.

05STSWOW
12-28-07, 06:22 PM
I have friend that got a Garmin for her VW convertible (suction-cup-to-the-windshield!) and it has weather data, traffic data, movie times, the whole 9. When is Cadillac going to get ahead of the curve feature-wise instead of being the ugly sister with big boobs compared to the competition?

thiamgo
12-30-07, 11:31 AM
I really don't understand all of you spending time on this discussion. I've given up on the navigation and voice command system long ago. The hardware/software combo is junk Cadillac buys from Denso, a Toyota affiliated company. You can find the same trash in Lexus cars. So as for the voice commands system, I just don't use it. And for navigation I stick my pocket pc PDA on the windshield. It doesn't help either that the maps of the STS system are from Tele Atlas with their inferior maps. My PDA uses excellent maps from NavTech. There is hope for the future for persistent Cadillac buyers. The new CTS uses a system shared with Mercedes and BMW. I played with it on an autoshow and it has a much more intuitive feel. Hope they don't use Tele Atlas.

lreddiablo
01-16-08, 06:51 PM
I'm disappointed that the crappy new maps aren't even current! I got these at the end of December. At the begining of the month the Southbay Expressway, 125 extension opened up, not on the disc. You think they would have got the info of new roads! Hey look, I'm driving through those trees!

Cajonkev
01-19-08, 01:31 PM
I'm disappointed that the crappy new maps aren't even current! I got these at the end of December. At the begining of the month the Southbay Expressway, 125 extension opened up, not on the disc. You think they would have got the info of new roads! Hey look, I'm driving through those trees!

Yes it is a pain to have to wait so long for these to show but keep this in mind.

Work backwards. Last annual release came out in Sept./Oct. (Before the road was opened), Add in distribution, production, compilation time on GM/Denso's end. Then factor in the map datum date from the provider is usually updated monthly so could be a month or so old as well before all of the rest takes place. All on a NAV system designed in 2002.

And since they are not going to update the database until after the road is open...

This is why the industry is moving towards hard drive nav with subscription download service to allow for regular updating straight to the vehicle.

I have a new major road I drive daily that just opened as well that I really wish was on the current map also so empathize with you completely.

At least you are in sunny San Diego enjoying your ride!

Go Bolts!

MARKVIII
01-19-08, 02:16 PM
why did GM use a nav. unit designed in '02 in '05? why is the hardware not upgraded? why are other car's getting much better equippment for a lot less money?

05STSWOW
01-19-08, 04:11 PM
Nearly four years ago I participated in a multi-feature survey focus group if which they provided demos of several future features. Lane Departure Warning and Blind Spot Warning (which we now have) were included. In probably 2000 I participated in a similar focus group related to Voice Recognition/Activation which we have had for a while and still doesn't work.
One very interesting feature was a nav screen that had a polarizing element that enabled to driver to see only Nav and the passenger to view a DVD (on the same screen). Pretty cool, but not practical legal-wise due to the audio distractabilty legal issues, which is why the Nav/DVD functions (stock) as it does.
All I want to be able to do is program destinations on the fly, as I use this function extensively (real estate).

Cajonkev
01-19-08, 04:33 PM
why did GM use a nav. unit designed in '02 in '05? why is the hardware not upgraded? why are other car's getting much better equippment for a lot less money?

A) 05 Model release came out in 2004. Vehicle design and integration starts years in advance to allow design, testing, integration, manufacture, distribution and finally installation. Rome wasn't built in a day. It's not like they went with a DIN mount unit or other universal bus. They attempted to build a very advanced head unit instead of piecing together common components.

B) The same reason no other cars upgrade their hardware. Refreshes happen on four year cycles. Only then do you typically see major changes to body styling and internal components. Costs are also a factor as R&D is rolled into the lifetime of unit production. To start over would not/does not make fiscal sense. Especially when your next re-design is already planning something new in most cases. And since the rumor is the STS as designed today is going away by 2010...

C) Lexus and some Toyota's have the same core unit as we do. Specific screens and programming are based on design and customer (GM) mandate. I have been in other vehicles who's owners think ours is far superior to their nav. Others are happier with theirs. There is a lot of competition out there and this was one of the first DVD based units.

The price of the car is not predicated on the NAV. GM took a shot to build an all-in-one Bose based unit loaded with features. The unit was over-engineered and under performs. They certainly didn't plan it that way and based on what they are doing on the CTS (Whose life cycle is ahead of the STS) they have/are learning and are doing better at least there.

There are many, many criticisms over why GM chooses multiple providers but there are also good reasons why diversity is good as well. In this case, they came up way short.

But for the money, we still drive nice cars with some great features.

Cajonkev
01-19-08, 04:34 PM
Nearly four years ago I participated in a multi-feature survey focus group if which they provided demos of several future features. Lane Departure Warning and Blind Spot Warning (which we now have) were included. In probably 2000 I participated in a similar focus group related to Voice Recognition/Activation which we have had for a while and still doesn't work.
One very interesting feature was a nav screen that had a polarizing element that enabled to driver to see only Nav and the passenger to view a DVD (on the same screen). Pretty cool, but not practical legal-wise due to the audio distractabilty legal issues, which is why the Nav/DVD functions (stock) as it does.
All I want to be able to do is program destinations on the fly, as I use this function extensively (real estate).

I did the HUD group. They have some great stuff out there waiting to roll-out...