Hi guys,

Has anyone figured out a reliable launch technique that will minimize wheel hop and still get a good short time?

I was going to head up to New England Dragway and try my luck against my buddy's GTO and an ex-girlfriend's built 5.0 GT convertible, and I don't want to grenade my diff by getting bad wheel hop on the launch. I've got the upgraded TSB bushings, but nothing else, so my car hops like crazy on launch and if I shift hard.

I did a search on a few different terms and couldn't find anything meaty about launch techniques. I've seen a few discussions by people wondering how in the world GM's test drivers got a 4.6 0-60, and that's sorta what I'm wondering - has anyone figured it out? I ran a 13.35 @ 107mph when my '99 C5 was bone stock, and 13.0 @ 110mph with a CAI and B&M shifter, so I'm a decent enough driver, but I'd like to learn how to drive the V from everyone else before I even get there if possible. :-)

Specifically I'd be interested in hearing from the guys who run their stock cars fast:

1) What rpm are you launching at?
2) how are you letting the clutch out? (I know you can't side step it but how long are you riding it out?)
3) what shift points are you using in each gear?

I'm pretty methodical once I get there, so I'll figure out my own shift points eventually since I try every 100rpm in every gear until I get the best time possible, but a starting point would be great!

Any advice from you guys running low 13s around 109mph?? :-)

-B

BTW - I have Corsa exhaust, 255/40 BFG KDW2s, and nothing else.

I'd be interested in the same info, but looks like the local test n tune night is gonna be rained out tonight :(

The CTS-V is very at home in the twisties and on road courses. It is not a drag racer. You must accept this. You will be much happier.

13.27 on F1 EMT's and bone stock is my best time and I consistently run in the within a tenth of that time. I'm on the road and don't have my time slips with me, but I do know my 60' times were terrible. My technique as of now came from learning how to launch a FWD car at the strip. Basically I just stage at 2k and apply smooth and deliberate gas in time with the clutch release on the launch and don't get any wheel hop.

I've just recently switched to PS2's and haven't had a chance to take it to the track yet. I did go out to a side road to see how differently the tires were from the EMT's. The first launch was at 3k releasing the clutch quickly and the tires pretty much went up in smoke. The second launch was at 2k releasing the clutch quickly and the car took off with no wheel hop. I know that the track (or at least hope) will have much more traction at the line which I'm sure will cause wheel hop, but the PS2's seemed to be better with a little heat applied where the F1's didn't matter.

Shifting technique...never lift my right foot and shift at the redline! :D

Keep us posted on any improvements you're able to discover and I'll be sure to do the same. And like JimmyH said, this car is a hoot on the twisties!

Get out your wallet man. Just curious as to why you'd want to take a 53k world class sports sedan with a 5 link road course rear susupension and the stickiest dry tires on the planet and try to figure out the best way to launch it like a bottle rocket. It's a lot better at toping out at 163 and pulling over a "g" coming out of a late apex turn. If your in to the street race and drag scene it's all good bro, I just think you spent about 30k more than you had to when a modded F body would probably give you what you want at a lot cheaper price. How many BMW M5s E55AMGs and Audi S4s do you see at the strip? The V was made to compete against and eat these cars. But, if you want to seriously drag race the car, get ready to change it into something it was not meant to be. If you want to go occassionally to the strip and have some fun, that's all good as well, just don't expect drag racing that to be the Vs strong point. Just keep that in mind.
My .02cents.

Don't listen to these guys, drag racing the V is a lot of fun. Of course, the last time I went to NED I came home in a flat bed truck. Check out my videos here. http://home.comcast.net/~dansctsv/

I launch at about 3 grand and just ease the clutch out. I also air the tires down to around 18 psi. The drag radials really improved traction but thats what casue me to break a half shaft.

Good luck, let us know how you do.

Contact Forum Member Gene/stkshkr, as he has the fastest 1/4 mile time and knows how to launch.

Exactly what Dan said.

Hey B-
Gene (stkshkr) is the man around here when it comes to talking about drag racing the V. Just read the forum. Ask him what he spent to have all that fun 11 seconds at a time. No disrepect Gene, just that you did what it takes to change the car into what it is today. A guy with a stock V is headed for trouble if he wants to have serious drag racer fun with the car. It's fine to admire stkshkrs V as long as you remember he spent the time and money to do it right.

What he said is very true, my car is totally different from a stocker. It's just about bullet proof for drag racing as long as I don't go crazy. You probably would not care for it as your daily driver, but I love it. Different strokes for different folks. Be happy with the car for what it is, a great American muscle car that can hang with the Euros in the twisties.

I don't drag launch to often, but have reduced wheel hop, especially during shifts, by trying different traction control settings (of the 3 I found). However, there's more spin when I do this... along with some occasional (hairy) fishtailing at 50+.

I reduced wheel hop and gained more more shift traction (and control) when I replaced the original F1's with Nitto's NT555R (mfg quote: "a D.O.T. approved competition drag radial").

In either case, however, I do not have any ET's to determine if any time was shaved. Just less wheel hop.

Simple.

Launch in second gear, 5,500 rpm, side-step the clutch, keep the throttle down when shifting.

For stock setup only.

Simple.

Launch in second gear, 5,500 rpm, side-step the clutch, keep the throttle down when shifting.

For stock setup only.

How often have you done that?

Gene,
How soon are you going to be testing your new rear-end at the track, as I think 11.6-11.7 is in reach with no power upgrades.
Good luck and keep us updated.

Been to the track but it's to hot to get good times. I did discover that even though I can do high RPM clutch dumps, without real slicks there's no traction. So I'm back to 2000-3000 RPM launches. My 60's have dropped .2 to consistant 1.70's. When it cools off it'll do better. BTW my real goal is consistancy and I'm getting that now after finally figuring out shock settings, tire pressure and launch RPM.

i take it to about 3k and let out easy on the clutch but kinda fast. i was in the 2.0-2.2 60ft times. running constant 9.07 in the 1/8. thats with my big ass in the car. all 267 Lbs of me. hmmmm I feel fat now. ok since im depressed now im gonna go eat something.
(Runs away crying with snickers in hand.)

Thanks for the advice guys. Sounds like there isn't any holy grail - that sounds like the same way I launched my Cobra and C5 for the most part.

For those who mentioned that it's not a drag car, I know that - I'm not "turning it into a drag car" or anything. I've had the car for a couple months now and have my G-meter's high mark at 1.0 & .96 just from the commute to work (since I haven't been to Louden yet) and I've had it to 160mph on Rt. 2 against a yellow Gallardo, so I know it's a road racing car and has a high top speed.

I generally know what my car is capable of top-speed-wise and handling wise, I just also want to know what I can do from a light. I haven't had much opportunity to just cruise and look for trouble in it, but I would say I run about the same number of cars from a light as from a roll. Unfortunately most of my highway time, where the V shines, is spent stuck in crappy Boston traffic. The few times when I've been out cruising around, I'm always trying to time yellow lights to get a run against someone with some iron, and sooner or later I'm going to come against something that tests the V. Almost had a run with a modded WRX last night actually but they turned off before we got to go... (No idea what he had under the hood - he might have DESTROYED me for all I know)

Anyway, sounds like I just need to work on my clutch-vs-throttle timing, just like every OTHER car out there, to get a good launch. I had a couple 1.85s with the C5, but that had the transaxle in the back which was nice for holding the rear tires down, and that car didn't have to worry about wheelhop so if I spun a bit it would just hook up a bit down the track. I have a feeling if I get any spin with the V it's going to start hopping and I'll have to shut it down to avoid diffy damage. I'll be amazed if I can beat a 2.0 short time in the V - it just feels SO damned heavy, and the traction isn't spectatular even with 255/40s all around. Yeah, I know, short-sidewall tires are going to suck for drag racing, but like I said, I just want to know how to get the best I can out of it, I'm not trying to do anything to make it better at drag racing.


Anyway, thanks again for the advice guys - and please keep adding to the thread if you have more insights!

-Bob

Simple.

Launch in second gear, 5,500 rpm, side-step the clutch, keep the throttle down when shifting.

For stock setup only.

Side-step???

Side-step???


you knw move your foot to the left and let the pedal slam back up

you knw move your foot to the left and let the pedal slam back up

Thought so,,,seems kinda hard on the car letting it hit the rev-limiter and slamming it into the next gear

I hope no one tries Scotty's launch and shifting technique. A 5500 clutch dump in 2nd gear is asking for rear damage. Most importantly, changing gears whille remaining at WOT is certain to damage the transmission and when the pieces come through the bellhousing and the floor there's a good possibility of injury

Simple.

Launch in second gear, 5,500 rpm, side-step the clutch, keep the throttle down when shifting.

For stock setup only.


CHA CHINGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

I hope no one tries Scotty's launch and shifting technique. A 5500 clutch dump in 2nd gear is asking for rear damage. Most importantly, changing gears whille remaining at WOT is certain to damage the transmission and when the pieces come through the bellhousing and the floor there's a good possibility of injury

HEY THATS NOT MINE! i would never do that i was just filling him in on what side step was

i kinda tried this the other night (revved up to 5500 in 2nd while stopped - just to see the results) It seems like theres no power tho.....can anyone explain. Like I tried letting my foot off the clutch a little and just felt like I was burning the clutch and not moving.

I Knew It!!!

Simple.

Launch in second gear, 5,500 rpm, side-step the clutch, keep the throttle down when shifting.

For stock setup only.
That's something I would try in a rental car but not one I would have to fix.

BTW, If anyone out there thinks it's a good idea to buy a rental car "cheap" may want to re-consider.

i kinda tried this the other night (revved up to 5500 in 2nd while stopped - just to see the results) It seems like theres no power tho.....can anyone explain. Like I tried letting my foot off the clutch a little and just felt like I was burning the clutch and not moving.

I love the smell of a burning clutch, it smells like.................victory!
(robert duvall apocalypse now)

its as if there was no grab....do i need a new clutch?

its as if there was no grab....do i need a new clutch?
probably just sliping like a mofo
think your ok

Sorry Scotty I meant Darkman.

its as if there was no grab....do i need a new clutch?

You will if you keep trying that stupid launch technique. You should be OK if you don't abuse it anymore.

I've launched in 2nd gear but you have to ride the clutch out. I wouldn't want to try a high rpm clutch dump in 2nd gear from a stand still. Maybe if the car weighed well under 3000 pounds. That is a lot of mass to get moving, say almost 3900 pounds + driver weight...something would give and it wouldn't pretty.

OK, so here's an update. This took me a while to write, and reading over it, it sounds pretty negative. I had alot of fun at the track (mostly because there were absolutely no lines!) but I have to say, I find it very disappointing that the rear suspension was so poorly designed stock...
=========================
I did eventually get to the track this last Wednesday night, and took alot of notes. (old habit - after every run I write down on the slip everything I did on that run so I can compare stuff later)
My best run (both ET and MPH) was a 13.68 at 109.99.

But the real story was the short times. My best 60' time was 2.327. For comparison, that's exact what my brother got in his FWD Hyundai Sonata on one of his runs in the lane next to me! In the C5, completely stock except for a CAI and a B&M short throw, I got a 1.85 short time on worn stock F1 EMTs, so I can *usually* figure out how to launch a car, but I felt like a complete noob with the V.

The stock rear suspension on this car is just badly designed for any kind of quick launch. And for those people who are going to say "well, it's design for road racing, not drag racing", there's absolutely no reason you can do BOTH - you'd have to TRY to screw up a suspension design to get wheel hop this badly! I remember when the IRS Cobras came out everyone was complaining that they didn't launch very well for drag racing (and that's actually why the Cobra went back to solid real axle, which is disappointing) but believe me - the Cobra suspension was NOWHERE NEAR as bad as ours!...

Short times were the worst I've ever seen for any vehicle *ever*. Like I think my dad's deisel Suburban could launch better than the V. LOL

The interesting thing is that there weren't really any degrees of wheel-hop. Every time it hopped it was violent, all out wheel hop, the kind that makes you back off the gas until it stops. I had wheel hop at the launch, at the 1st-2nd shift, and once even in the 2nd-3rd shift.

Things I tried:
1. Super-easy leave, release clutch with half throttle until clutch is out, then add throttle to WOT. As soon as I got to WOT the rear would break loose and start hopping explosively.
2. Near-Idle launch, clutch out quickly. Didn't wheel hop, but the LS6 seemed to take FOREVER to get up into the meat of the powerband, so that short time was bad too.
3. 5k rpm, release clutch slowly and keep same amount of throttle until the clutch is all the way out. This produced my best short times, but the car STILL experienced wheel hop, it just took longer to start and when the car finally hooked up I was already up in the HP part of the curve.

So still no good consistent launch technique. I'll probably try and DIY something to reduce the wheel hop - maybe a combination of the "washer on the bushing" trick others have mentioned with some sort of strap or bumper to reduce the travel of the suspension where it's hopping...

As for the rest of the run, after the launch, I was pretty surprised at how inconsistent my mph was. I had everything from 94mph when I missed a shift (had just put UUC bushings in Wednesday morning, so wasn't used to it yet) up to the so-close-to-110mph that I had on my last run. 110mph would have been really nice to hit since that's what I had with my C5, but I always seem to miss my goal but a hundredth of a second at the strip. (my C5 ran 13.000, keeping me out of the 12s!)

I'm thinking that heat soak might have a pretty large effect on the car, because one of my 109mph runs was after a 15 minute break (I put the hood up if I even have a 1 minute break) and the other one was the last run where I literally picked up my slip at the booth after one run and drove right back to the line with no sitting in line at all, so the car was always moving and cooling off.

The car never ran hot (oil temp stuck at 217 degrees, water at 199 degrees) but you could really feel the heat coming out of the engine compartment, and I smelled some anti-freeze when it felt the hottest, so I think I'm going to take it in to get checked for a leak. I have to think a good cold air intake, in the air stream behind the grill, will make the trap speeds a bit more consistent and get me into the 110s.

One thing that was cool about the V even though it meant I was going slower was that this car really seems to light up the rear tires on shifts. I think my '85 5.0 GT was the last car I had chirp 4th at New Englad Dragway, but I actually spun 3rd and chirped 4th every run in the V, and actually got a little bit sideways going into 4th on one run, which surprised the hell out of me! I don't know whether to attribute that to the new UUC shifter I had put in, the stock clutch, or maybe it's just that the car is so heavy and the tires are small by comparison. (I have 255/40 BFG KDW2s)

BTW - weighed the car and it was even heavier than I thought. I think it was 4154lbs with me in it and a quarter tank of gas. Ouch.

Anyway, I now understand the frustration people have with the wheel hop. I have to admit when I kept reading about it, I was like "well, there's probably a way to launch to avoid the wheel hop - it couldn't possibly be THAT bad if you know how to drive it!"
Yeah, ok, you guys were right - it sucks. :-)
The suspension design is just flat out broken and needs to be fixed. I've always had decent luck finding low-buck fixes for stuff (having access to a welder helps) so if I ever get the time, maybe I'll play around with trying to fix it. Probably not though - honestly I don't drag race that much, and while I'd love to say I got into the 12s and 110s, the fact is the car is still fast as hell from a roll and corners pretty decently for how big it is!

Next step will be to take it to New Hampshire International Speedway in the spring. I got a 1:26 in the dual chicane configuration setup with the Vette, and I'd love to see how close the V can get to that. :-)

-B