: Love the new 08 but why upgrade to Northstar



dwight.j.carter
09-05-07, 05:19 PM
In looking at the direct injected v6 with 300 hp what is the point of upgrading to a northstar one when the difference is only 20 hp or did they do some upgrading to the standard Northstar ? I was at my dealer today and direct injected one is very nice in my opinion and with a few mods you could get it as fast or faster than the northstar. I would only get one with Northstar if it was a V-Series don't you guys think ?

MARKVIII
09-05-07, 05:33 PM
V8 is smoother and generally a better ride..just my opinion

dkozloski
09-05-07, 06:00 PM
The V6 sounds harsh and raspy at WOT. The Northstar sings a V8 song for you and the torque band is much broader. Overall performance is still in the Northstar camp.

MARKVIII
09-05-07, 07:18 PM
i always tried to drive V8 engine cars whenever they were offered. i find that the whole experiance (idle/air conditioning/acceleration etc) where better. i might not have any proof to back up that statement but i always felt that.

VA Maddog
09-05-07, 10:10 PM
Once you have a Northstar you will really come to appreciate it. It is a great engine and very economical for a V-8. I agree with the other comments; the Northstar would be smoother with a more even torque curve and a much richer V8 sound.

I have also read in the most recent Motor Trend that Cadillac is investigating a potential engine defect with the new V6 that may not be correctable, although there were not a lot of details as to the nature of the problem.

z06bigbird
09-06-07, 12:38 AM
Once you have a Northstar you will really come to appreciate it. It is a great engine and very economical for a V-8. I agree with the other comments; the Northstar would be smoother with a more even torque curve and a much richer V8 sound.

I have also read in the most recent Motor Trend that Cadillac is investigating a potential engine defect with the new V6 that may not be correctable, although there were not a lot of details as to the nature of the problem.

Dealer told me today that 3.6 will always have somewhat of a fluttering and rough running first time in am. There is a free computer re-program, but some of that specific problem will continue. Life is tough. I guess this is the result of all that technology. Not a bad engine, but v8s are smoother running. Something to do with physics of engine design--4 cyl being roughest, 6 being somwhat smoother. Again design of v8 makes for mathematically perfect engine operation.

dwight.j.carter
09-06-07, 01:13 AM
I think they need to make a direct injected Northstar then she would be even meaner !
I love my Northstar and I have one of the originals the FWD Seville got it all started.

997tt
09-06-07, 08:31 PM
Once you get a V8 the only other option is a W12 Bentley...

That said, I'm sure the next V8 version that goes into a cady will be between the Germans powerband. 360(550i)-382hp(E550) and if they go crazy, maybe 400hp. That said, I'm ready to bet it will be around 5.5L TOO.

Jesda
09-08-07, 03:20 AM
Northstar is effectively dead.

dkozloski
09-08-07, 03:45 AM
Northstar is effectively dead.
It seems to me I heard the same kind of statement about the small block Chevy about thirty years ago.

Caroutisine
09-08-07, 05:06 AM
This same question (I6 or V8) is also asked on Grand Cherokee forums. One conclusion I would have to agree with is that if you get the V8, you'll probably never think that you should have gotten the V6. If you get the V6, you may at some point think that you should have opted for the V8.

In 2005 the V6 STS was not available with all of the options as a V8, so that helped my decision. That's not the case in the current STS model year so this makes the choice a little more complicated. But I have owned both I6 and V8 Grand Cherkoees, and at least on that vehicle the V8 is well worth the extra $$$ IMHO.

Now I only wish I would have gotten AWD on my STS...:banghead:

cmicasa
09-09-07, 11:46 AM
It seems to me I heard the same kind of statement about the small block Chevy about thirty years ago.

He's right tho... the NORTHSTAR as we kno is DONE. The ULTRA V8 is coming out in about 2009-10. The Power rating for the DI INJECTED V8 will be about 370HP in base form and up to 600HP naturally aspirated. Expect displacement for the base engine to be about 4.8L.

I also heard from my dealer that the 3.6L DI will somehow INSTANTLY come out at this time with 330HP as the current one is DETUNED due to the EXACT reason why this guy started this thread... the only 320HP current Northstar.

A Directed Injected engine normally gains about 15%-20% in power and efficiency. The 3.6L without DI is at 275HP in the Lambdas... with DI it should be at about 328-330HP

dkozloski
09-09-07, 02:00 PM
He's right tho... the NORTHSTAR as we kno is DONE. The ULTRA V8 is coming out in about 2009-10. The Power rating for the DI INJECTED V8 will be about 370HP in base form and up to 600HP naturally aspirated. Expect displacement for the base engine to be about 4.8L.

I also heard from my dealer that the 3.6L DI will somehow INSTANTLY come out at this time with 330HP as the current one is DETUNED due to the EXACT reason why this guy started this thread... the only 320HP current Northstar.

A Directed Injected engine normally gains about 15%-20% in power and efficiency. The 3.6L without DI is at 275HP in the Lambdas... with DI it should be at about 328-330HP
He's delusional.

Curious George
09-09-07, 07:17 PM
Northstar is effectively dead.

:banghead: I've heard/read rumors that the Northstar is at the end of its road. The rumor mongers claim that it's too expensive to manufacture. Too bad. It may be 15 years old, but it's still near state-of-the-art. And it's not at the end of its technological development potential. Adding VVT in 2004 boosted its output to 320 hp from 275. Were it equipped with gasoline direct injection, its output would likely rise to 385+ hp. With a modest improvement in fuel economy to boot. (The 3.6-liter GDI engine pumps out [304/3.6=] 84.4 hp per liter. Scaled up to the Northstar's 4.6 liters, that comes to [4.6 x 84.4=] 388 hp.) An STS so equipped would certainly be able to get out of its own way.

Continuing the development of this Northstar dream, kindly contemplate with me the prospect of an STS-V powered by a supercharged 4.4-liter GDI Northstar rated at 550 hp. With a modest improvement in fuel economy to boot. (GDI boosted the 3.6-liter V6's output [304 hp/258 hp=] 17.8 percent. Apply this factor to the current STS-V's 469 hp and you get 552 hp. The actual result would be higher since pressurized engines benefit more from GDI than do atmospheric engines. As the young printer's apprentice Mark Twain once wrote, "Jesus H. Christ!"

I submit that this sort of engine development is what Cadillac needs to sell into the technology headwinds blowing in from Japan (Lexus' LS 460h), and Europe (Mercedes' AMG, BMW's M, and Audi's W12). The Corvette folks should also consider such an engine for sales in technology-obsessed Europe. I've read over and over again that Europeans are singularly unimpressed by large push-rod V8s.

Ah, well. I can still dream.

dkozloski
09-09-07, 07:36 PM
:banghead: I've heard/read rumors that the Northstar is at the end of its road. The rumor mongers claim that it's too expensive to manufacture. Too bad. It may be 15 years old, but it's still near state-of-the-art. And it's not at the end of its technological development potential. Adding VVT in 2004 boosted its output to 320 hp from 275. Were it equipped with gasoline direct injection, its output would likely rise to 385+ hp. With a modest improvement in fuel economy to boot. (The 3.6-liter GDI engine pumps out [304/3.6=] 84.4 hp per liter. Scaled up to the Northstar's 4.6 liters, that comes to [4.6 x 84.4=] 388 hp.) An STS so equipped would certainly be able to get out of its own way.

Continuing the development of this Northstar dream, kindly contemplate with me the prospect of an STS-V powered by a supercharged 4.4-liter GDI Northstar rated at 550 hp. With a modest improvement in fuel economy to boot. (GDI boosted the 3.6-liter V6's output [304 hp/258 hp=] 17.8 percent. Apply this factor to the current STS-V's 469 hp and you get 552 hp. The actual result would be higher since pressurized engines benefit more from GDI than do atmospheric engines. As the young printer's apprentice Mark Twain once wrote, "Jesus H. Christ!"

I submit that this sort of engine development is what Cadillac needs to sell into the technology headwinds blowing in from Japan (Lexus' LS 460h), and Europe (Mercedes' AMG, BMW's M, and Audi's W12). The Corvette folks should also consider such an engine for sales in technology-obsessed Europe. I've read over and over again that Europeans are singularly unimpressed by large push-rod V8s.

Ah, well. I can still dream.
A supercharged 550HP+ is doable but normally aspirated it's a dream. These are luxury street cars, not one race wonders.

z06bigbird
09-09-07, 11:32 PM
It seems to me I heard the same kind of statement about the small block Chevy about thirty years ago.

Gonna happen. Just don't know when. 2020?? 2030??

Cadillacon22s
09-16-07, 02:32 PM
A V8 is a must in a Cadillac, I could not have it no other way. The deep tone the low end torque and the power you still have going up hill with the a/c on. V8 all day every day reguardless of the cost or the little hp gain.

Lifer
09-16-07, 06:38 PM
A V8 is a must in a Cadillac, I could not have it no other way. The deep tone the low end torque and the power you still have going up hill with the a/c on. V8 all day every day reguardless of the cost or the little hp gain.

Ah, I heard Ned Jordan now - "Somewhere west of Laramie..." :)

Also see "The Penalty of Leadership" by Theodore MacManus.

In late 1914, Cadillac introduced its first production V-8 in the 1915 models, another milestone. It was not the first V-8 -- Clarence Ader's 1903 Paris-Madrid race car had a V-8 engine -- nor was it the first V-8 in a production car. The French 1910 DeDion took that honor.

But the Cadillac was the first volume production V-8 and was quickly refined into one of the most sophisticated engines in the world... from Richard A. Wright, Detroit News, November 22, 1999, "Joyrides"

Jesda
09-17-07, 10:32 AM
The Northstar is a sweet engine (to drive), but otherwise its a gasket-blowing oil-leaking nightmare waiting to happen. Its a wonderful and advanced but seriously flawed engine. The Northstar can't compare to the Toyota 1JFUDasdZCASD, Ford modular V8, or Nissan VH45.

The small-block Chevy V8s are reliable, cheap to build, economical to operate, and their smaller size make them easy to package into all kinds of vehicles.

Skibanker
09-17-07, 12:03 PM
Agree with Jesda. Had the Northstar in an Oldsmobile Aurora. Sold it when I was told by the dealer that the engine would have to be pulled to fix all the oil leaks. And they weren't just a few drops here and there.

MARKVIII
09-17-07, 01:10 PM
i have owned a northstar engine in three differant cars over the last 12 yrs and never had a ounce of problems. there were some oil leak nightmares and gasket problems in the first 5 yrs of production but these have all been cleared up as revisions to the engine have evolved over the yrs.

dkozloski
09-17-07, 01:17 PM
All engines go through a developement period. Northstar has developed quicker than most. There are stories all the time in the Northstar Forum about 200-300,000 mile cars.