: Northstar CranKshaft Position (CKP) sensor replacement



AJxtcman
08-29-07, 06:31 AM
....

AJxtcman
08-29-07, 06:31 AM
Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement 2000 to 2005
Removal Procedure
Caution: To avoid any vehicle damage, serious personal injury or death when major components are removed from the vehicle and the vehicle is supported by a hoist, support the vehicle with jack stands at the opposite end from which the components are being removed and strap the vehicle to the hoist.


Raise and support the vehicle.
Remove the crankshaft sensor electrical connector. For specific CKP sensor identification, refer to CKP, EOL, EOP comploc - 2000 K .
Remove the crankshaft retaining bolt.
Remove the crankshaft sensor.


Installation Procedure
Important: Inspect the crankshaft sensor o-ring for wear or damage. If a problem is found, replace the o-ring.

Lubricate the crankshaft sensor o-ring with clean engine oil.

Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.

Important: Be sure to fully seat the CKP sensor into the engine block. Failure to fully seat the CKP sensor may cause a CKP sensor DTC to set.

Install the crankshaft sensor and the retaining bolt.

Tighten

Tighten the retaining bolt between 8-11Nm (70-100 lb in).


Install the crankshaft sensor electrical connector.
Caution: To avoid any vehicle damage, serious personal injury or death when major components are removed from the vehicle and the vehicle is supported by a hoist, support the vehicle with jack stands at the opposite end from which the components are being removed and strap the vehicle to the hoist.

Lower the vehicle.
Operate the engine and inspect crankshaft sensor for engine oil leaks.
Perform the CKP System Variation Learn Procedure .

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AJxtcman
08-29-07, 06:50 AM
That is the way GM says to do it. Now this is my way.

Raise the car on the hoist
Remove the Front Air Deflector
Remove the bolt retaining the brake line bracket to the front of the cradle
Remove the front engine mount lower bolt.
Remove both of the front cradle bolts.
Un-clip the harness from the oil filter housing
Reach up to and un-clip the reddish connector locks on each connector. I use a hook shaped pick tool.
Un-clip both connectors from the crank sensors and move them to the side.
Use a 1/4 drive 10mm flex socket and a long extension and remove the retaining bolts.
Pull out both sensors.
Slide in the new crank sensors.
Bolt them in place
Reconnect the connectors and install the locks.
Re-clip the harness in place
Reinstall the cradle bolts and the motor mount nut.
Reinstall the brake line retainer bolt
Reinstall the front air deflector
Allow the engine to warm up to operating temp.
Relearn Crank Variance

AJxtcman
08-29-07, 06:53 AM
If you do not have a hoist and you are using ramps and if you have small arms you may be able to reach up and un-clip the sensors, But I would say to take it to the dealer because you need to have the Crank Variance relearned any way

AJxtcman
08-29-07, 06:56 AM
Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn
Caution: Before performing the Crankshaft Position System Variation Learning Procedure always set the vehicle parking brake and block the drive wheels in order to prevent personal injury. Release the throttle immediately when the engine starts to decelerate in order to eliminate over revving the engine. Once the learn procedure is completed, the control module will return engine control to the operator and the engine will respond to the throttle position.


Set the parking brake.
Block the drive wheels.
Ensure the hood is closed.
With the scan tool, monitor for DTCs. If a DTC is set, refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List/Type before proceeding.
Start the engine and allow engine coolant temperature to reach at least 70C (158F).
Turn OFF the ignition.
Select and enable the crankshaft position variation learn procedure with the scan tool.
Start the vehicle.
Apply and hold the service brake pedal firmly.
Ensure the transaxle is in park.
Increase accelerator pedal position until the fuel cutoff is reached at 5150 RPM. Immediately release the accelerator pedal after fuel cutoff is reached.
The crankshaft position system variation compensating values are learned when the RPM decreases back to idle. If the procedure terminates.

Observe DTC status for DTC P1336.
If the scan tool indicates that DTC P1336 ran and passed, the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure is complete. If the scan tool indicates DTC P1336 failed or not ran, check for other DTCs. If no DTCs other than P1336 are set, repeat the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure as necessary.

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AJxtcman
08-29-07, 06:59 AM
FIGURE CKP B, CKP A, Engine Oil Pressure Switch, and Engine Oil Level Switch(c)

34821

(1) CKP Sensor B
(2) CKP Sensor A
(3) Engine Oil Pressure Switch
(4) Engine Oil Level Switch

Submariner409
08-29-07, 07:51 AM
:confused: AJ......What would happen if you replaced the sensors but did not perform the variance relearn ???

AJxtcman
08-29-07, 01:18 PM
DTC P1336 Crankshaft Position (CKP) System Variation Not Learned
Circuit Description
The crankshaft position system variation learning feature is used to calculate reference period errors caused by slight tolerance variations in the crankshaft, and the crankshaft position sensors. The calculated error allows the PCM to accurately compensate for reference period varations. This enhances the ability of the PCM to detect misfire events over a wider range of engine speed and load.

The PCM stores the crankshaft position system variation values after a learn procedure has been performed. DTC 1336 set indicates that the crankshaft position system variation values have not been stored in the PCM and the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure must be performed. The learn procedure is required after the following service procedures have been performed, regardless of whether or not DTC P1336 is set:

PCM replacement.
PCM reprogramming.
Engine replacement.
Crankshaft replacement.
Crankshaft position sensor replacement.
Any engine repair that disturbs crankshaft to crankshaft position sensor relationship.
Conditions for Running the DTC
No CMP sensor, or CKP sensor DTCs set.
The engine coolant temperature is more than 70C (158F).
Conditions for Setting the DTC
The crankshaft position system variation values are not stored in the PCM memory.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
The PCM will illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) the first time the malfunction is detected.
The PCM will store conditions which were present when the DTC set as Freeze Frame/Failure Records data.
Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
The PCM will turn the MIL OFF after the third consecutive trip in which the diagnostic runs and passes.
The history DTC will clear after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles have occurred without a malfunction.
The DTC can be cleared by using the scan tool Clear DTC Information function.

Diagnostic Aids
The crankshaft position system variation compensating values are stored in PCM memory after a learn procedure has been performed. If the actual crankshaft position variation is not within the crankshaft position system variation compensating values stored in the PCM, DTC P0300 may set (refer to Diagnostic Aids for DTC P0300).
__________________

AJxtcman
08-29-07, 01:32 PM
34836
34837

AJxtcman
08-31-07, 02:00 PM
34902

34903

34904

34905

34906

FrankT
10-12-07, 11:22 AM
That is the way GM says to do it. Now this is my way.

Raise the car on the hoist
Remove the Front Air Deflector
Remove the bolt retaining the brake line bracket to the front of the cradle
Remove the front engine mount lower bolt.
Remove both of the front cradle bolts.
Un-clip the harness from the oil filter housing
Reach up to and un-clip the reddish connector locks on each connector. I use a hook shaped pick tool.
Un-clip both connectors from the crank sensors and move them to the side.
Use a 1/4 drive 10mm flex socket and a long extension and remove the retaining bolts.
Pull out both sensors.
Slide in the new crank sensors.
Bolt them in place
Reconnect the connectors and install the locks.
Re-clip the harness in place
Reinstall the cradle bolts and the motor mount nut.
Reinstall the brake line retainer bolt
Reinstall the front air deflector
Allow the engine to warm up to operating temp.
Relearn Crank Variance

Thanks AJxtcman,
I followed your proceedure on an 01 Deville last night worked like charm :yup:
It took me less than 1/2hr.
Frank

Domino1968
10-13-07, 11:20 AM
:confused: AJ......What would happen if you replaced the sensors but did not perform the variance relearn ???

I would like to know the answer to that question as well.

urbanski
10-13-07, 06:20 PM
keep questions out of tech tips
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/55401-do-not-post-questions-here-they.html

FrankT
10-14-07, 09:22 AM
During a learn procedure the PCM/ ECM learns the amount of crankshaft position (CKP) system variation. If a crankshaft variance relearn is not performed, then there is a chance of setting codes.

AJxtcman
10-15-07, 07:48 AM
Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn
Caution: Before performing the Crankshaft Position System Variation Learning Procedure always set the vehicle parking brake and block the drive wheels in order to prevent personal injury. Release the throttle immediately when the engine starts to decelerate in order to eliminate over revving the engine. Once the learn procedure is completed, the control module will return engine control to the operator and the engine will respond to the throttle position.


Set the parking brake.
Block the drive wheels.
Ensure the hood is closed.
With the scan tool, monitor for DTCs. If a DTC is set, refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List/Type before proceeding.
Start the engine and allow engine coolant temperature to reach at least 70C (158F).
Turn OFF the ignition.
Select and enable the crankshaft position variation learn procedure with the scan tool.
Start the vehicle.
Apply and hold the service brake pedal firmly.
Ensure the transaxle is in park.
Increase accelerator pedal position until the fuel cutoff is reached at 5150 RPM. Immediately release the accelerator pedal after fuel cutoff is reached.
The crankshaft position system variation compensating values are learned when the RPM decreases back to idle. If the procedure terminates.

Observe DTC status for DTC P1336.
If the scan tool indicates that DTC P1336 ran and passed, the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure is complete. If the scan tool indicates DTC P1336 failed or not ran, check for other DTCs. If no DTCs other than P1336 are set, repeat the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure as necessary.

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I found this on a NON GM site, but it looks correct.

NOTE: If the Crankshaft Variation Relearn is not accessible through your scan tool (some truck applications 1998 & later), perform the relearn in the following manner:

1. Turn off all of the accessories. With the Air temperature sensor and Coolant temperature within 5 degrees (Centigrade) of each other, start the engine and let it idle in Park or Neutral for two minutes.
2. Accelerate the vehicle to 55 mph at part throttle. Cruise at 55 mph for 8- 10 minutes until the engine reaches operating temperature.
3. Cruise at 55 mph for another 5-6 minutes.
4. Decelerate to 45 mph without using the brakes, and maintain 45 mph for 1 minute.
5. Perform 4 deceleration cycles, without using the brakes, of 25 seconds each where no specific speed is necessary. Returning to 45 mph for 15 seconds in between deceleration cycles.
6. Accelerate to 55 mph and cruise for 2 minutes.
7. Stop the vehicle and idle for 2 minutes with the brake applied and the transmission in Drive.

OccDoc
02-13-10, 11:08 AM
While I' am a new member (I joined about a week ago) and I am definatly not a mechanic, I do have a good mechanical appitude and some decent mechanical skills. For about the last year year my Seville SLS has been stalling for no reason. As soon as I put it in nuteral and turned the key it started right up. So of course I put off taking it to the dealer. Recently it failed to start after stalling and often in the morning. I went to the cadillac forum and read about replacement of the cpk(s). I had a patient tell me why it stalled the way it did and the codes agreed. It sounded fairly simple. Last Friday I saw my last patient at about 11:15 AM So I told my receptionist not to take anymore appointments and went to the auto parts store (O'Rilley's, $102.00 for both sensors, borg warner lifetime warrenty). Took the car home. drove it up on ramps in my insulated heated garage and thought: an hour or so I'll be done.HA. I followed the procedures which I read in the forum. Everything went great...... until I started. I Took off the plastic guard under the facia,
unbolted the lines across the front frame member and lowered them, removed the oil filter and tried to remove the filter adapter. ( I did not remove any frame mount bolts)......... well for the next 30 hours (not straight thru) I struggeled with the adapter. I have many tools and I didn't have to go buy any thing I didnt have, but it was a nightmare. When I would finally find a position where I could get a wrench on a bolt..... It would only turn about an 8th of an inch. Once I finally got the adapter off and could reach the sensor connectors that was another nightmare. Once the connectors were off it was clear sailing. Sensors came out with no problem and after lubing the "O" rings with new engine oil, they went in just as easily. after new "O' rings on the adapter and reassembling everything (which seemed much easier) I put a new filter in and changed the oil with MOBIL 1. I cleaned everything up and with my girlfriend as an audience.......I prayed it would start ( I had to listen to " why don't you just take it to the dealer" for the last 30 hours) I I put the key in, hesitated, then turned it. To my great surprise it started immediatly. Had a friend use use his scanner to teach it what it needed to know. It hasn't stalled or failed to start since. IS IT A JOB FOR A BEGINNER???? I just don't know. I guess if you have a lot of time and patience you can do it. I think if I had to do it again I could do it in a couple of hours since I've learned HOW to do it. The bottom line is this: although it was frustrating at times. I felt a sense of accomplishment when I finished. MY respect and regards to all you mechanics out there. Richard L. Cushing M.D. PS: it took some time to make my hand look presentable again!

Submariner409
02-13-10, 03:11 PM
You're not the first to discover that the CKP's can be a PITA. Thanks for the writeup........

BTW...............:nanaparty::welcomeJimmyH:

OccDoc
02-14-10, 10:01 AM
I just want to say that this site (Forum/owners group) is a great source of knowledge and was very helpful with my recent "PROJECT".
Keep up the good work. I'm sure I'll be visiting and posting on here OFTEN. Thanks for the great Forum.
OccDoc......... rc

HondaCBX6
02-17-10, 04:02 PM
AJ or ANYONE who might have information...

I noticed your postings regarding the Crank Sensor problems of the series 3 Northstar motor. To make a long story short...

I bought my '03 from a freinds father who was dying of cancer last summer. It had 10.000 mile on it and was a beautiful car for the money. Anyhow I have had nothing but problems with the car not the least of which was this last problem with these sensors. Cadillac charged me $604 to replace the two sensors. I didn't seem right given I work at a sensor manufacturer and that got me thinking and browsing the internet for some answers. Anyway it seems like you know a thing or two about these sensors, the history, and what cadillac did to correct the problem. I feel as though they should have been replace for free since I see there was a letter to dealers stating as such. I understand it has bee a long time since then but they were never replaced back then because the person I bought the car from had it in storage and was ddying of cancer. Fast forward to this past week when I had the problems and the dealer never mentioned these problems they just charged the heck out of me for a replacement.

Anyway do you have more information besides what is posted here about this? I am almost sure that if Cadillac would have done the job correctly they would have told me about this KNOWN issue and made it right. Now I can not trust them or Cadillac. Can you help me with any further information/.documentation/links that might shed more light on what Cadillac did and for whom?

Thanks in advance.
John
PS did you or do you work for Cadillac?

Submariner409
02-17-10, 08:27 PM
Your post has been answered in your identical question elsewhere.

HondaCBX6
02-17-10, 10:08 PM
Thanks for nothing...

I would have expected somesing better than that?

I am new to this forum. Actually new to forums in general. This was the thread that matched my search hense the question.

With help like this I understand why I dislike forums.
John

**concours**
03-15-10, 06:40 AM
Are upper and lower sensors the same?

HondaCBX6
03-18-10, 09:46 AM
No Although they essentially do the same thing they are shaped differently in order to fit their position.

Submariner409
03-19-10, 05:46 PM
It depends on the year of the engine. For his DeVille Concours, which would be a 1999 or earlier VIN 9 engine, the sensors are the same.

2000+ have different sensors; one black, the other gray, which are a specific one-way fit, as are the electrical connectors. Earlier sensors are the same part number, and you have to be careful to connect the proper plug to the proper sensor.

bradmo
12-04-11, 03:19 PM
Thank you so much, AGAIN!!!
Did it the other day - not bad!
The pictures were especially helpful!!

bwgerho
07-30-13, 06:59 PM
I am replacing the CKP's on my 2000 Eldo. Per above discussion, I removed oil filter, disconnected oil cooler lines, and filter adaptor, now ready to do the connector BUT how do you release the electrical connectors???? I do not want to force the issue and feel there must be an easy way to release the connector. Anyone have some suggestions????

Regards Bruce

Ranger
07-31-13, 09:51 PM
I think there is a tab you simply pry up on if I remember correctly. Looking at the new ones should give you an idea.

bwgerho
08-04-13, 11:58 AM
I replaced both CKP sensors on 2000 ETC. The procedure was much as described above - remove oil filter, if you have an ETC, then disconnect and plug the 2 oil filter cooler lines (if installed) (7/8 open end; corks 3/8 tapered to 1/4), remove oil filter adapter. Examine the new CKP - the electrical connector has the ramp lock so lift the side with the lock (bent and sharpened coat hanger) while prying the connector up with a screwdriver.
The most useful tool for CKP removal is 10 mm 1/4 drive normal length socket with a short extension. The 1/4 drive equipment allowed room for my fat hands and the drive to turn the screws.
I used the ACDelco replacements - did not need the "learn procedure": runs great, no codes, you have to look at the tach to verify the engine is running at idle.
All in all, not a bad job, BUT allow several hours for to complete in your driveway.

danger seeker
09-12-13, 10:13 PM
This thread helped out greatly when I did both sensors tonight on my 2002 deville. I dropped the front of the frame a few inches and was able to get in there with my medium-sized hands. Took me between 2-3 hours taking my time and eating dinner. The lower red tab I used a small flathead to help pull it out. The red tap on top was a bit trickier. I grabbed a screw and put in in my fingers and reached up there and used the head of the screw to help pull the red tab towards the front of the car.

I was having the P0335 code and my car stalled while I was idling. The car also took two or three tries to start every time I tried to start it. Code is now clear, and I haven't done the re-calibration. So far no codes (even though it has only been one night). Car does feel a little more responsive since replacing the sensors

Submariner409
09-13-13, 06:17 PM
FWIW, those CKP's are the ignition and fuel injection timing triggers. If one or both is faulty and sets a Current DIC the PCM defaults timing to a fixed 10 BTDC - the "limp home" default setting. The car would be somewhat sluggish off-idle, fuel mileage would suffer, and the engine might tend to run a little warmer - not hot - warmer.

The CKP Relearn procedure is done by a GM dealer using the Tech-II program/scan electronic tool. Post #5.

the recluse
09-20-13, 01:39 AM
Good lord dude, stop spam posting and hijacking...you joined one day and spam 4 times on the same day...