: '03 STS making turbine-like sound for 5-10 secs on cold start. Any ideas?



ktraub
08-27-07, 05:06 PM
My '03 STS starting making a sound like a turbine spinning up under the hood for a few seconds after a cold start. It can just barely be heard from inside the cabin but is clearly audible outside the car. It does not happen again until the engine is cold and doesn't last longer than 5-10 seconds.
Anyone have any ideas what it is?

eldorado1
08-27-07, 05:44 PM
Check the transmission and power steering levels.

AJxtcman
08-27-07, 05:44 PM
My '03 STS starting making a sound like a turbine spinning up under the hood for a few seconds after a cold start. It can just barely be heard from inside the cabin but is clearly audible outside the car. It does not happen again until the engine is cold and doesn't last longer than 5-10 seconds.
Anyone have any ideas what it is?

You have a Kirby under the hood.
And????
Does it bother you?

Ranger
08-27-07, 08:28 PM
A.I.R. pump?

dkozloski
08-27-07, 08:57 PM
Ranger nailed it!

AJxtcman
08-27-07, 09:15 PM
I have a cradle out that has 2 Kirby's on it.

Ranger
08-28-07, 12:49 AM
OK, I'll bite. What's a Kirby?

Zorb750
08-28-07, 12:53 AM
It is a vacuum cleaner.

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinoff1997/images/87.jpg

Very expensive, very high quality. Puts that Dyson thing totally to shame in every way that counts.

AJxtcman
08-28-07, 01:04 PM
It is a vacuum cleaner.

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinoff1997/images/87.jpg

Very expensive, very high quality. Puts that Dyson thing totally to shame in every way that counts.

I have no carpets in my house and I own a Dyson. You could not sell me a Kirby. My Dyson is pretty loud. Hmm it sound a lot like the AIR pumps. Hmmmm. No they are Kirby's for sure. My camera is in my car. I thought it was at home so I could not take a picture of the twin Kirby powered hoover craft AKA cradle. When I go back to work I will get a picture or two.

jadcock
08-28-07, 03:26 PM
WHAT'S A KIRBY? Only one of the best vacuums ever made! I have my mom's 30-year-old Kirby at home. Runs like a hoss. The body is all stainless, and I have it shined up like a mirror. It really is a wonderful piece of engineering.

But yeah, the A.I.R. pump is likely the noise. My '01 STS has a high idle for about 20 seconds after a cold start, and there's a rather unpleasant whirring racket under the hood. After about 20 seconds, the noise goes away and the idle drops to normal. I understand that this is only on CA or MA/NY emission cars. Mine was originally sold (leased) in Ohio, so I don't know.

dkozloski
08-28-07, 04:39 PM
A Kirby is an overpriced POS. Throw a handful of change on the floor and try to pick it up with the Kirby. Everything the vacuum picks up has to go through an impeller turning about 10,000 RPM. Lookout for flying shrapnel. All you have to know about Kirbys is that they are sold door to door in a process that is a veritable training ground for con men. The markup is outrageous.

AJxtcman
08-28-07, 05:28 PM
A Kirby is an overpriced POS. Throw a handful of change on the floor and try to pick it up with the Kirby. Everything the vacuum picks up has to go through an impeller turning about 10,000 RPM. Lookout for flying shrapnel. All you have to know about Kirbys is that they are sold door to door in a process that is a veritable training ground for con men. The markup is outrageous.

I could by 3 or 4 dysons for the price of a kirby.
I had a demo once from my now girl friend. I think that night may have been the start. Anyway I proved that my Vac's worked better than a kirby. First was the house vac. It worked better even on the salt trick. Then after she went over it with the Kirby I got out my large shop Vac It is like the one's at the car wash. you need ear plug. I sucked up even more crap.
Back to the subject.
Most cars have 1 Kirby on the left side. I think only 00 Califonia cars have 2. We have a few with none, but not too many.

jadcock
08-28-07, 06:58 PM
Overpriced or not, if our Bissel lasts 30 years, I'll concede and put the Kirby away for "occasional use". :) But I know it'll still be running 60 years after it was made. The only thing it's needed is a few rubber belts.

I think my '01 has one A.I.R. pump, and it has two valves...one on each exhaust manifold. I don't recall if it has the CA emissions. I've looked up all the RPO codes on it before, but I just don't recall on that one.

AJxtcman
08-28-07, 07:52 PM
I have pictures.
Oh no not those pictures. I will be right back.:thehand:

Ranger
08-28-07, 08:14 PM
I have yet to hear the A.I.R. pump on my '03 or my daughters '02.

Since this has turned into a vacuum cleaner thread. My daughter just threw away a still working Electrolux that my mother used when I was a kid.

jadcock
08-28-07, 08:42 PM
I have yet to hear the A.I.R. pump on my '03 or my daughters '02.

Do they go into a "high idle" for 20-30 seconds on a cold start?

AJxtcman
08-28-07, 08:42 PM
I have yet to hear the A.I.R. pump on my '03 or my daughters '02.

Since this has turned into a vacuum cleaner thread. My daughter just threw away a still working Electrolux that my mother used when I was a kid.


Not good
34813

34814
Vac motor GM uses

Mountie
08-28-07, 09:37 PM
I have a '93 STS...... O.K.,..... what is an A.I R. pump and where is it? With so many widgits on my North* I probably handled it & didn't know what it was.

As for vacuums, a Kirby is still a bag-filter vacuum.

The ONLY good clean vacuum is a RAINBOW. No bag filter..... the dust is cycled into water, and the exhaust is perfect clean air. Just dump out the water when done. There is no loss in suction & AIRFLOW when in use. 10 times the vacuum / suction... it pulls out the carpet dust from the padding, & not just the surface stuff.

And, now about the A.I.R. pump please?

Ranger
08-28-07, 09:37 PM
Do they go into a "high idle" for 20-30 seconds on a cold start?
I think so. Never had any cold start problems like low idle and stalling. Idle seems to be a little higher than normal on a cold start as I would expect.


Not good
What's not good? Not hearing it?

AJxtcman
08-29-07, 05:46 AM
I think so. Never had any cold start problems like low idle and stalling. Idle seems to be a little higher than normal on a cold start as I would expect.


What's not good? Not hearing it?
Discarding the Electrolux


I have a '93 STS...... O.K.,..... what is an A.I R. pump and where is it? With so many widgits on my North* I probably handled it & didn't know what it was.

As for vacuums, a Kirby is still a bag-filter vacuum.

The ONLY good clean vacuum is a RAINBOW. No bag filter..... the dust is cycled into water, and the exhaust is perfect clean air. Just dump out the water when done. There is no loss in suction & AIRFLOW when in use. 10 times the vacuum / suction... it pulls out the carpet dust from the padding, & not just the surface stuff.

And, now about the A.I.R. pump please?

AIR pumps are on 00+

jadcock
08-29-07, 07:56 AM
I think so. Never had any cold start problems like low idle and stalling. Idle seems to be a little higher than normal on a cold start as I would expect.

The idle is pronounced on mine. When I start it "cold", it'll idle at about 1200 RPM for about 20 seconds. Then it'll immediately fall to about 800 RPM (normal idle) after the set time duration. Whenever I start it in the morning, I use that "high idle" time to fasten my seat belt, mess with the HVAC, open the sunroof, do whatever I'm going to do, and then after the 20 seconds are up and the idle falls, that's when I back out of the garage.

My '97 was different (besides not having an A.I.R. pump). Whenever you would cold start it, it'd idle at over 1000 RPM for a few seconds, but it'd quickly fall back down to normal, even when cold.

I understand the 2000+ engines are LEV (Low Emission Vehicle) certified. I'm sure this A.I.R. pump and idle regime are part of that. As I understand, the idle is high initially to put a relatively high amount of fuel into the exhaust when cold and the A.I.R. pump runs to inject oxygen into the exhaust and "light" that catalytic converter quickly, to get it heated up as quickly as possible.

Ranger
08-29-07, 10:35 AM
The idle is pronounced on mine. When I start it "cold", it'll idle at about 1200 RPM for about 20 seconds. Then it'll immediately fall to about 800 RPM (normal idle) after the set time duration.
That sounds about right. I'll pay closer attention when I leave for work later.

ktraub
08-29-07, 05:57 PM
OK, this is the weirdest thread I've ever seen.. and I started it with an innocent question, what is the turbine like sound for a few seconds at start-up that recently began in my '03 STS!
Anyway, my '03 STS is a Cali. emissions car sold new in Mass. and does the 1200 rpm idle for 10-20 seconds on cold start.
So, to get back on the real subject, does this mean my A.I.R. pump is about to fail and if/when it does, what happens? Does the whining mean it's going to cease up and shred a belt or what? Are they repairable or do you replace them and what does that cost? Come on guys, please hold the jokes and help me out with some good information, OK, please?

JimHare
08-29-07, 06:39 PM
My Deville has that same sound - cold start, about 10 seconds worth. Done it every day for the last 165K miles...don't think it's too much to worry about.

MN-STS-LOVER
08-29-07, 08:01 PM
I think you are all wrong.....Kirby is a Hall of Fame Center Fielder who played for the MN Twins. The sound you are hearing is what it sounded like when he was chasing down a fly ball in deep center!

Submariner409
08-29-07, 08:16 PM
Cold idle 1200 for a brief period, 800 for a minute or so, then 625 +/-. The "whine" may well be the A.I.R pump(s) lighting the cat. (Electric pump(s), I think....) The suspension compressor will fart for 4-5 seconds shortly after engine on. I have a CA certified late '02, sold in NY (Staten Island), and it has a slight "whistle" just before idle drop sequence on startup. (No, it ain't the intake plenum/bellows....)

AJxtcman
08-29-07, 08:46 PM
Subject: Service Engine Soon (SES)/Check Engine Light MIL Illuminated, Secondary Air Injection Reaction (AIR) Pump Ingesting Water, DTC P0410 Set (Replace Secondary Air Pump/Inlet Hose Assembly or Filter Kit) #02-06-04-024G - (06/05/2006)



Models:
2000-2003 Cadillac DeVille
2001-2002 Cadillac Eldorado
2001-2004 Cadillac SLS, STS
2001-2003 Oldsmobile Aurora
with 3.5L V6, 4.0L or 4.6L V8 Engine (VINs H, C, Y, 9 -- RPOs LX5, L47, LD8, L37
.
.
.
.
2002
PCM/VCM Powertrain/Vehicle Control Module
New Calibration to correct condition of AIR pump running indefinitely

dkozloski
08-29-07, 10:07 PM
I think you are all wrong.....Kirby is a Hall of Fame Center Fielder who played for the MN Twins. The sound you are hearing is what it sounded like when he was chasing down a fly ball in deep center!
Durward Kirby was the straight man on the Garry Moore show.

hyperboimmv
08-30-07, 07:07 PM
So, I must say, I .. am a fan of Riccar / Simplicity (that and filter queen)... My simplicity works far better than my mother's Kirby, and mine was 1/4 the price.. Mine doesn't destroy linolium when you vacuum over it. Once, when I was a wee child I decided to help mom with the yard work... I took the kirby outside and vacuumed the front deck.... The thing whined and sputtered to a halt... 300 dollars later I wasn't allowed to 'help' for a long time...

JimHare
08-30-07, 09:21 PM
Durward Kirby was the straight man on the Garry Moore show.

Yes, but what about the Kirwood Derby?....

Hint: RJS & B(T)M

Ranger
08-30-07, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by jadcock
The idle is pronounced on mine. When I start it "cold", it'll idle at about 1200 RPM for about 20 seconds. Then it'll immediately fall to about 800 RPM (normal idle) after the set time duration.


That sounds about right. I'll pay closer attention when I leave for work later.

Watched it closer today. 40 seconds @1200, then drops to about 800.

tco43
01-16-08, 01:30 AM
After skimming through all this I think a summary is in order. From what I have read the vacuum cleaner sound is the Secondary Air Pump. It feeds fresh air into the exhaust to help burn the over rich exhaust that occurs early after starting. Once the engine is warming, it is no longer needed and shuts down. Usually only runs 30 seconds or so. If you're looking for it, it's usually underneath, outside the right side frame rail just forward of the right front axle shaft. Hosing runs back and around the engine. It's normal to hear it. The sound doesn't mean it's going bad.

Zorb750
01-16-08, 03:24 AM
After skimming through all this I think a summary is in order. From what I have read the vacuum cleaner sound is the Secondary Air Pump. It feeds fresh air into the exhaust to help burn the over rich exhaust that occurs early after starting. Once the engine is warming, it is no longer needed and shuts down. Usually only runs 30 seconds or so. If you're looking for it, it's usually underneath, outside the right side frame rail just forward of the right front axle shaft. Hosing runs back and around the engine. It's normal to hear it. The sound doesn't mean it's going bad.

Obvious. Don't dig up old threads to say what everyone else has already said, even to summarize. Bumping up old topics that have already been solved is quite annoying.

I can see possibly a summary of a day or two old thread, but not one that's been dead for several months.

Jamie Z
03-09-10, 09:42 PM
Obvious. Don't dig up old threads to say what everyone else has already said, even to summarize. Bumping up old topics that have already been solved is quite annoying.

I can see possibly a summary of a day or two old thread, but not one that's been dead for several months.
FWIW, I'm glad he did summarize. I just bought my car a few weeks ago, and I noticed a vacuum cleaner sound on startup that would go away after a short period, along with a drop in RPM.

Reading this thread, I couldn't figure out whether this was normal or not... now I'm glad to know it is.

Thanks TCO.

Jamie

jcresciSTS
03-10-10, 08:52 AM
LOL I didn't realize it was old until he said not to bring up old posts then I realized REALLY how old this thread is...

FWIW, I know now why they named the video game character Kirby :D

Also, CA car...mine starts up at 1000 rpm, then goes down to about 850 or so after about 40secs, idle is at 650

Pimpium
06-09-10, 04:28 PM
Its a new thread to me & my 1st post. I have a 2002 sls. My car made that sound on cold startup like previously mentioned & it didnt bother me too much. Then one day it made a loud screeching sound, and I havent heard from it sinse. The sound went away but a few days later the service engine soon light came on and is still on.
I guess Id rather hear the sound than see the ses light !!
The code its producing is P0410.
Is this something I can fix myself? Can someone tell me how?? I know very little about this kind of stuff.

STSS
06-09-10, 04:41 PM
You likely need to replace the Secondary Air Injection Pump.... it is located up in the drivers side front fender, in front of the tire... It is a pretty easy DIY fix in my opinion. Rockauto.com shows 2 pumps for your car, one is $110 and the other is $140.... GMPartsDirect.com only shows 1, $115 shipped.

I would first call a dealer to see if you can get the part number for the correct pump. They changed something in the air system at one point to make it less likely to suck in water (which ruins the pump)... I'm pretty sure they just changed the inlet line, but I'm not sure.

You will not hurt the car by driving with that code set, it just won't pass any emissions testing (unless you can get them to sniff your exhaust instead of relying on the SES light and computer)

Pimpium
06-09-10, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it!

Submariner409
06-09-10, 06:41 PM
Yes, the whine is normal, yes the fast idle sequence is normal, and the AIR pump supplies fresh air to the exhaust manifolds in order to light off a cold cat. yes, there is a revised pump and kit which routes the air intake hose up into the engine compartment - the instructions say to cut a hole in the intake duct and clip the new hose in so you can't hear the whine for 10 seconds - I'm not cutting any holes in my intake ducting.

Here it is in the 2000+ bodies...............

tateos
06-10-10, 10:53 PM
I bought an air pump for my 2000 DTS - my father totaled the car recently - before I could install the pump - it is a brand new GM part - AC DELCO 215480. I think it would fit your car - let me know if you are interested - I'm sure I can save you a few bucks.

Richard Moore

rmoore@usdigitalmedia.com

877-992-3766 X516