: What has happened to Infiniti ?



Sandy
08-26-07, 12:52 AM
When I am in "Mixed Company" {Domestic and Import People} and the talk turns to cars, especially the luxury imports, the talk used to be about BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti and Lexus. I always wondered why Jaguar was (almost) always strangley omitted. ('Ya ever notice that?)
But more recently, I've taken note that Infiniti has now been mysteriously sent to sit in the corner & face the wall. It's now BMW, Mercedes, Audi & Lexus. But..... was Infiniti a "bad Boy" or has it been lousey advertising or or or WHAT?
Another wierd one. The Volvo S80 is catagorized as a luxury car. Heck, it's got the goods & the features and the price is around $60,000 fully loaded...so, why don't the "armchair experts" consider the S80 in the above grouping?
Anyone got any ideas on Infiniti ? S80 ? Jaguar ?

Night Wolf
08-26-07, 01:00 AM
awww Sandy has been following the W140 threads :)

Honestly, I don't know... not as well known I guess? when I think of luxury imports Infiniti and Jaguar are last on my list of what I remember... not cause of the product or anything, but you just hear about the others alot more.

Playdrv4me
08-26-07, 01:08 AM
Jesda is an expert on this... but the bottom line is Infiniti made a mis-step with marketing from DAY ONE. We were just talking about this earlier tonight. Let's turn the clock back to 1990, at a time when Infiniti and Lexus were babies, and no one gave a left nut about either company.

Both their halo cars, the Q45 and the LS400 were as close technologically as they would ever be. Engine power in the Q45 in fact was up near the 300 mark, and the Q was EASILY the faster car PERIOD. Interiors? Take your pick. Both cars had their interpretation of luxury, and both were probably right in their own way. Overall quality was slightly higher in the Lexus, but it was also more sterile (as always) so it was still a toss-up.

So what was left? Well, Marketing. While Infiniti was busy airing aloof commercials full of flying gaggles of geese and strange metaphors, Lexus was busy advertising... the CARS. Champagne bottles, marbles and all... Lexus was getting the very public's attention that had no f-ing clue what to think of Infiniti's strange attempts to do so.

After that, it was one mistake after another. In the mid 90's, Infiniti AGAIN lost substantial ground with the small following of PERFORMANCE-minded enthusiasts it had ALREADY garnered through word-of-mouth; and changed it's flagship to more directly compete with the LS. The result? A Slower, cushier and less desirable car all around. Infiniti had finally managed to alienate the last group that was still buying the Q45, and began to play a disappointing game of "catch-up" that would become the staple of the Q45's existence. The rest of the lineup at this point was nothing more than poorly rehashed versions of Nissan products that themselves were losing market-share dramatically through the 90s. The only ray of light in this entire arsenal was the Nissan Primera based G20, which was quickly gaining ground as a small, powerful and fun little car.

Unfortunately, Infiniti's advertising only got WORSE over time. They would heavily advertise a vehicle for a very short time, and then abandon it altogether, allowing many VIABLE products... i.e. the FIRST M45 (do you even remember it?), the QX4, the first gen G20 to languish, and eventually die. This combined with the fact that even though it had many revisions over time, the Q45 became an absolute laughing stock over everything from its eventual egg-shaped design, to its strange interior layout, made for a very poor outlook for Infiniti entering the early 2000's. After all, if you couldn't get your FLAGSHIP vehicle straight, what hope was there for the rest of your portfolio?

They are FINALLY starting to turn things around... marketing has improved somewhat, the vehicles are getting better (the G35 is a bread-and-butter seller and the G37 is a force to be recokned with, even for BMW's 335i), and quality is on the way up. But I think it will be ALONG time before we see Infiniti return to the mind of the consumer as a PREMIUM luxury brand, and not just Nissan's Acura.

Jaguar is something of a mystery. I dont for a minute believe that Jaguar ISN'T viewed still as a prime luxury contender, but I believe that alot of people still operate under the pretense that Jag is still somehow crippled by the poor reliability that obviously has changed drastically over the past several years. I dont think the issue is that Jaguar isnt considered a competitor, so much as people just dont seem to want to deal with it at all.

The S80 for the longest time was no more impressive than the Acura RL. It finally got a V8 after all these years so we'll see if it starts to pick up some ground.

Lord Cadillac
08-26-07, 01:15 AM
Acura used to be in there as well.. No more... Lincoln and Cadillac were in there years ago. :p

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-26-07, 01:39 AM
Ian, you should write books on this sort of thing.

Jesda
08-26-07, 02:18 AM
I'd like to correct Ian. Performance made a huge comeback at Infiniti but quality is on the way down.

dkozloski
08-26-07, 02:48 AM
They have a non-existant dealer network. The nearest dealer to me is about 2200 miles away. Advertising is nonexistant or unmemorable at best. The Infiniti powered IRL cars were lead sleds. Losers all the way. Jaguar is coasting along on reputation which is spotty. Anybody mentions Jaguar and big leaks and temperamental are words that spring to mind. On the other hand I was working in my yard this afternoon and I heard this weird noise coming down the road. Here came a great big shiny old Continental convertible making noises like it was going to fall apart in front of me but it looked neat. I looked over at my new V8 AWD STS and said to myself, "What a Cadillac doesn't have it doesn't need".

Playdrv4me
08-26-07, 03:43 AM
I'd like to correct Ian. Performance made a huge comeback at Infiniti but quality is on the way down.

Well, I guess I should have elaborated. What I meant was perceived quality. I sat in the G37 when I picked up my Rangie at Atlantic Infiniti, and I have to tell you, the fit and finish and feel of the interior was far ahead of the very first '03 G's despite being the exact same chassis. In other words, the dashboard didnt feel like it was going to fall off. It was for all intents and purposes, better than the Q45.

As far as overall quality, the Renault connection won't help anything.

96Fleetwood
08-26-07, 08:18 AM
Infiniti has turned into the poor man's BMW. Their current line up has beautiful machines full of amazing gadgets backed by powerful motors and even AWD in some.... hence, the poor mans BMW.

Every article I read compares the G/M to the 3/5 BMW counterparts and they sure come close! Infiniti struggled to compete with the big boys but could never establish a presence like Lexus despite coming to America only a few years after.

I don't think those crash test ratings that showed the G35 as one of the worst helps either.

As for Volvo and Jaguar... they are nice vehicles as well. My sister drives a S60R, an amazing machine.. but those two automakers have their loyal following that love those cars for what they are. A S80 is not going to make anyone oohhh or ahhhh unless you are an avid Volvo fanatic.

thebigjimsho
08-26-07, 02:31 PM
I really think that having a top of the line, technology laden, true LUXURY car is needed. I don't think the Q45 has been anywhere near that for a decade.

Look at Lexus' LS460L. If I was looking at an uber-sedan to cheuffeur people around in, THAT would be the car. And having a hybrid edition? Genius. But Mercedes, BMW and Audi all have over the top large, luxury sedans.

IMO, the Jaguar XJ is too small and old fashioned, the Volvo S80 is not even near that class, and Cadillac and Lincoln have a lot of work to do to get there. I don't even think they're really looking to go there.

Sandy
08-26-07, 03:56 PM
okay, now from me....

I guess none of you realize that Infiniti dropped the Q45 at the end of the 2006 model run. after selling just 366 units. The 2006 sported 20" rims/tires and 4-wheel steering, both new-for-2006. I WILL now confess that I had placed an order for one ! There were NO options, for 2006. I wanted the ONLY new color for 2006, a medium tone greyish-blue, with Ivory interior. My dealer could not produce the car, as dealers NEVER had the opportunity to ORDER! 366 were shipped here, arriving at the West Coast port(s) for across country distribution. My closest dealer (14 miles away) recieved 1 unit, a dark grey with light grey interior.
I got my D/P back. I was very sad. I really wanted it. I do love that car. Why? I dunno...style, looks, sorta a "Hey, Look At Me" & "WHAT'S THAT" kinda car, that stands out in a sea of M-B, BMW & Lexi. A sad ending to a really neat car, with IRS, 20" tires/Rims, 4 wheel steering, and alot of luxury.

Re: Volvo S80. Car has features the M-B, BMW & Lexi (also Infiniti & Jag) can only dream of.
A person looking at the others, and is not a "Status Junkie" and gets a GOOD salesman/woman and they
show & demo the car....Will sell the car over the others.
My accountant had a BMW 5 Series (2003) and prayed for the day his lease was over, 'cause he had so many problems with that car. Out of lease, he bought a S80. Now with 55,300 miles, he has yet to have problem #1.
The kids love it, as the rear seat center armrest has a built in 'Fridge to keep their drinks cold. and each can play their own games on the twin headrest mounted DVDs with wireless headphones. My CPA loves the power from the V-8 and the Pop Up Navi. His wife likes the voice activated phone. He is SOLD !!
But, people do NOT shop Volvo - so, who's the loser, there...

In my area, Jags sell very well, so I was kinda referring to across the USA, as a whole.

CVP33
08-26-07, 04:07 PM
When the Q45 first came out, I loved the pictures. It was one of those rare times where a car really caught my attention. Kinda like the first time I saw the V. The Q had those gattling gun headlights, rear camera, great interior layout, etc., etc. Then I saw one in person and I couldn't have been more underwhelmed. The car has absolutely no presence. It frankly doesn't look like a luxury car.
Then the M45 came out and it only got worse. If not for the G35 coupe (not the god awful sedan) I wouldn't have even paid attention to Infiniti for the last 5 years. The new M45 is an improvement but for Audi, BMW and Mercedes money. Frankly I'd rather have one of the German makes. The G37 coupe looks incredible and even moreso in person. The next Q? Wow, I don't know if they can catch up to Lexus. And Acura? Don't even get me started. I don't think they're even trying.

AMGoff
08-26-07, 04:25 PM
It's really hard for me to say... mainly because I don't like imports. Most of them are as overpriced as they are overrated, especially Mercedes (sorry Chad). I remember my father-in-law used to swear by Mercedes, mainly because he had an old 240D for years and years, those cars were easy to work on and ran forever. A few years back he bought himself an E-Class, what a piece of junk! That thing spent more time in the shop than it did on the road. After like a year or so with the E-Class he decided he wanted "perfection" so he bought himself an S-Class - WRONG-O! Honestly, in the two years he kept that car it was in the shop something like 18 times. Every time they would pull up in the Envoy we knew he wasn't going to be in a good mood! Do you know what he's driving now? A DTS. He's sworn off German cars completely. But for some none of that matters, it's just the "panache" of the emblem, despite what JD Power's been saying about them for the last decade.

Anyway... BMW's are nice but they took years to be viewed as a top-notch luxury car. Remember when they were known as little, basic, drivers cars? Audi's - don't get it, gussied up VWs for sometimes twice the price. The Asian contenders... well, they don't do much for me either. Lexus' may be rock solid dependable but they are so BORING... they might know how to build a car but they've yet to learn how to build a car with a soul. If I'm spending 60-large on a car why on earth would I want it to look absolutely generic looking. Acura's a even worse... there isn't a single model that looks distinctive and most of them are an obvious Honda with a different badge on them. Then there's Infinity... the only thing worse than a boring looking car is an ugly looking car, then again they're all Nissan's, which are, IMO the ugliest of all the Japanese manufacturers. Like someone said before, they lack both market presence and competent advertising. They should have had a home run on that FX as it really is a sexy looking crossover but they never played it up.

I really wish Mazda had went though with their planned Amati luxury division back in the 90s. They are the only one who have figured out the "soul" part of the equation. If they had done so they would certainly be giving BMW a run for their money these days.

And Jaguar - beautiful cars. Even in their dark day of the 80s they were still producing gorgeous cars. My neighbor has an '85 XJ6, british racing green with a tan interior, absolutely stunning. I always tell him if he ever gets rid of it to tell me so I can purchase my first ever foreign car. A lot of people say that Jag's gone down hill since Ford bought them. Yes and No. Their product quality has improved drastically thanks to Ford, yet they suffer the same problem as Infinity, inadequate advertising. Unfortunately they've recently release pics of the production XF... horrible. There's nothing about it that says "Jag." Maybe that's what they need, but this new design language will either make or finally break them.

So yeah... that ramble should just about cover it...

Playdrv4me
08-26-07, 05:13 PM
Anyone familiar with Mercedes knows that any E from 1996 on (w210) and any post 2000 S klasse is utter junk in the reliability department when compared with the cars of before. The only other Ford related problem I see w/jaguar is that some of their heaviest hitters (S type and X type) could barely be differentiated from the Ford roducts they were based on! In many ways the Lincoln LS was and is to this day a better buy than the s type based on it. The x type was nothing more than a rehash of an OLD mondeo platform.

JAG is improving with the latest models, but i guess it wont matter when ford sells them out :nono:

thebigjimsho
08-26-07, 06:15 PM
okay, now from me....

I guess none of you realize that Infiniti dropped the Q45 at the end of the 2006 model run. after selling just 366 units. The 2006 sported 20" rims/tires and 4-wheel steering, both new-for-2006. I WILL now confess that I had placed an order for one ! There were NO options, for 2006. I wanted the ONLY new color for 2006, a medium tone greyish-blue, with Ivory interior. My dealer could not produce the car, as dealers NEVER had the opportunity to ORDER! 366 were shipped here, arriving at the West Coast port(s) for across country distribution. My closest dealer (14 miles away) recieved 1 unit, a dark grey with light grey interior.
I got my D/P back. I was very sad. I really wanted it. I do love that car. Why? I dunno...style, looks, sorta a "Hey, Look At Me" & "WHAT'S THAT" kinda car, that stands out in a sea of M-B, BMW & Lexi. A sad ending to a really neat car, with IRS, 20" tires/Rims, 4 wheel steering, and alot of luxury.

Re: Volvo S80. Car has features the M-B, BMW & Lexi (also Infiniti & Jag) can only dream of.
A person looking at the others, and is not a "Status Junkie" and gets a GOOD salesman/woman and they
show & demo the car....Will sell the car over the others.
My accountant had a BMW 5 Series (2003) and prayed for the day his lease was over, 'cause he had so many problems with that car. Out of lease, he bought a S80. Now with 55,300 miles, he has yet to have problem #1.
The kids love it, as the rear seat center armrest has a built in 'Fridge to keep their drinks cold. and each can play their own games on the twin headrest mounted DVDs with wireless headphones. My CPA loves the power from the V-8 and the Pop Up Navi. His wife likes the voice activated phone. He is SOLD !!
But, people do NOT shop Volvo - so, who's the loser, there...

In my area, Jags sell very well, so I was kinda referring to across the USA, as a whole.I knew that Infiniti was dropping it's Q45, but it was such a non-story, I couldn't remember if it had happened yet.

The S80 is just not a great luxury car as is perceived by 90% of the buying public who perceive what they feel a luxury car should be. The Volvo doesn't have the driver involvement. That would be OK if it were a comfortable drive. It may be nice but it is not luxury comfortable. The features are nice but it's lost without an identity in an ever increasing market.

96Fleetwood
08-26-07, 08:17 PM
Wow, I thought the Q45 was an afterthought way before 2006..

I never liked Volvo until I drove my sister's S60R. The suspension and AWD in that car are amazing. Volvo has its own following and has actually grown for the better with Ford.

I can never like Jaguar. The 1998 XJ8 I had was very bland and underpowered. I love the styling of the R series, but I just can't justify spending that kind of money when I could have a AMG or M tuned vehicle with better resale value.

ted tcb
08-26-07, 08:55 PM
The two names I hear mentioned the most with business associates are BMW and Lexus.
One for driving experience, the other for durability and fit/finish.
Funny, Acura is never mentioned, nor Infiniti.

I do remember that people were turned off by the original Q45's absence of a grill, and a very austere interior, lacking in the warmth of wood.
By comparison, the LS400 was opulent.
I also recall a change of powertrain displacement in the Q45 in the mid nineties, which lowered horsepower. The car magazines took real jabs
at that. Too bad, I test drove a new Q45 in 1993, and it was the probably the nicest, most solid car I had driven at that point in life.
I never felt the word got out to the masses on a fine car.

Playdrv4me
08-26-07, 10:36 PM
The two names I hear mentioned the most with business associates are BMW and Lexus.
One for driving experience, the other for durability and fit/finish.
Funny, Acura is never mentioned, nor Infiniti.

I do remember that people were turned off by the original Q45's absence of a grill, and a very austere interior, lacking in the warmth of wood.
By comparison, the LS400 was opulent.
I also recall a change of powertrain displacement in the Q45 in the mid nineties, which lowered horsepower. The car magazines took real jabs
at that. Too bad, I test drove a new Q45 in 1993, and it was the probably the nicest, most solid car I had driven at that point in life.
I never felt the word got out to the masses on a fine car.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up.

Playdrv4me
08-26-07, 10:39 PM
Wow, I thought the Q45 was an afterthought way before 2006..

I never liked Volvo until I drove my sister's S60R. The suspension and AWD in that car are amazing. Volvo has its own following and has actually grown for the better with Ford.

I can never like Jaguar. The 1998 XJ8 I had was very bland and underpowered. I love the styling of the R series, but I just can't justify spending that kind of money when I could have a AMG or M tuned vehicle with better resale value.

Yea, I agree with all your points. I also thought the S60R and the 850 T5R that came long before it were the only cars in Volvo's recent history that aside from their safety following, really put them on the map at all.

The only R Jag I might consider scooping up once the resale finally goes completely in the toilet, is the 2003 S Type R. Those are already down in the 17-22k range. Unfortunately Ford really shot themselves in the foot with the LS though. Had the LS received an "SVT" variant with the same motor, I think it would have sold very well.

Not sure what you mean about us "not knowing" that the Q was dropped in 2006, I thought that was pretty commmon knowledge and my earlier post eluded to the fact that the Q45 just wasnt selling at all anymore. Its too bad you couldnt get your hands on one though, but maybe its for the best, you dont really strike me as an Infiniti guy.

Sandy
08-26-07, 11:30 PM
Yes, I always kinda sorta liked the Q
But the restyle a couple years ago (not sure of the year -
but it was the year it got to look like the final edition of '06 -)
that it really won me over. ALOT of people look at at, and
you can tell they admire it & have NO CLUE what it is.
(I like that - "that" being diffferent then the masses).

So, I didn't get it. :crybaby: It woulda been nice.

I always wanted a "different" kind of "fancy" car.
When they all drove Caddies, I bought a bunch of
Imperials. (1972 / 1974 / 1976 / 1982.) When
21 and all the guys were in 'Stangs & Camaros & Firebirds....
I bought a Buick Skylark Gran Sport 455, and showed them
what fast really was ! :thumbsup:

That is what the Infiniti Q was....the OTHER less traveled road.
My dealer said that it was possible that NONE were ever made in
that new-for-2006 color, other than paint chips in the book, with 366 built
to come here (USA) perhaps they never bothered to add that color.
It would have repalced my Town Car, daily driver. The Sixty Special
is in storage.

Playdrv4me
08-26-07, 11:44 PM
That is what the Infiniti Q was....the OTHER less traveled road.
My dealer said that it was possible that NONE were ever made in
that new-for-2006 color, other than paint chips in the book, with 366 built
to come here (USA) perhaps they never bothered to add that color.
It would have repalced my Town Car, daily driver. The Sixty Special
is in storage.

Man, that guy waiting to buy your Town Car is just never gonna have his day is he Sandy?!

Sandy
08-27-07, 10:01 AM
IF I was going to order a new 2007 Luxury Car, this would be it.

2008 Volvo S80 V8 AWD
TOTAL(MSRP) $64,452
BASE PRICE
$49,210
Styling
$625
Exterior

White Pearl

$625

Zubra 8x18" Alloy Wheels w/ 245/40/R18 Performance Tires

N/C
Interior

Sport Seats, Anthracite Black Perforated Leather Seating Surfaces

N/C
Options
$11,950
Climate Package

$875
Heated Front Seats
High-Pressure Headlamp Cleaning
Rainsensor Windshield Wipers
Heated Windshield Washer Nozzles
Heated Rear Seats
Sport Package

$2,495
Zubra 8x18" Alloy Wheels w/ 245/40/R18 Performance Tires
Perforated Leather Seating Surfaces
Speed Sensitive Steering
Four-C Chassis w/Three Settings
Active Bi-Xenon Gas Discharge Headlamps
Dynaudio Package

$1,650
Sirius Satellite Radio
Premium Sound System-12 Dynaudio Spkrs, 5 x 130W Amp, Dolby Pro-Logic II
Rear Seat Headphone Jacks and Audio Controls
Blind Spot Information System (BLIS)

$695
Adaptive Cruise Control with Collision Warning and Brake Support

$1,495
Park Assist, Front & Rear

$495
Volvo Navigation System with HDD, DVD Map Date & Remote Control

$2,120
Volvo Dual-Screen Rear Seat Entertainment System

$1,800
Classic Wood Steering Wheel

$325
Accessories
$1,922
Parking Assistance Camera

$716
Sill Moldings, illuminated

$456
Volvo Hands-free with Bluetooth

$388
iPodŽ/USB Music Interface

$361
Features
Horsepower 311 @ 5,950 RPM; Torque 325 ft./lbs. @ 3,950 RPM
V8, 4.4-liter engine
6-Speed Geartronic Automatic Transmission
All Wheel Drive with Instant Traction
Dynamic Stability Traction Control (DSTC)
Whiplash Protection Seating System (WHIPS)
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
Side Impact Protection System (SIPS) with Dual Chamber Airbags
Personal Car Communicator (PCC) with Keyless Drive, Two-Way Car Communicator and Heartbeat Sensor
Soft Leather Seating Surfaces
Power Glass Sunroof
Pyrotechnical Pretensioners, All Seats
Leather Seating Surfaces
Dual-Zone Electronic Climate Control (ECC)
AUX-Input and In-dash 6-CD Changer with MP3 Capability
17" Meissa Alloy Wheels
Genuine Classic Wood Inlays
Power Driver (with memory) and Passenger Seat
Power Glass Sunroof
Warranty
4 Years or 50,000 miles, whichever occurs first
Roadside Assistance
Volvo On Call Roadside Assistance 4 Years
DESTINATION FE$
745

Playdrv4me
08-27-07, 10:06 AM
I would need to get that car for 55k out the door TTL and all to even BEGIN to consider it. I'm sorry theres just no way Im paying 65 large for a VOLVO!

thebigjimsho
08-27-07, 11:14 AM
IF I was going to order a new 2007 Luxury Car, this would be it.

2008 Volvo S80 V8 AWD
TOTAL(MSRP) $64,452
BASE PRICE
$49,210
Styling
$625
Exterior

White Pearl

$625

Zubra 8x18" Alloy Wheels w/ 245/40/R18 Performance Tires

N/C
Interior

Sport Seats, Anthracite Black Perforated Leather Seating Surfaces

N/C
Options
$11,950
Climate Package

$875
Heated Front Seats
High-Pressure Headlamp Cleaning
Rainsensor Windshield Wipers
Heated Windshield Washer Nozzles
Heated Rear Seats
Sport Package

$2,495
Zubra 8x18" Alloy Wheels w/ 245/40/R18 Performance Tires
Perforated Leather Seating Surfaces
Speed Sensitive Steering
Four-C Chassis w/Three Settings
Active Bi-Xenon Gas Discharge Headlamps
Dynaudio Package

$1,650
Sirius Satellite Radio
Premium Sound System-12 Dynaudio Spkrs, 5 x 130W Amp, Dolby Pro-Logic II
Rear Seat Headphone Jacks and Audio Controls
Blind Spot Information System (BLIS)

$695
Adaptive Cruise Control with Collision Warning and Brake Support

$1,495
Park Assist, Front & Rear

$495
Volvo Navigation System with HDD, DVD Map Date & Remote Control

$2,120
Volvo Dual-Screen Rear Seat Entertainment System

$1,800
Classic Wood Steering Wheel

$325
Accessories
$1,922
Parking Assistance Camera

$716
Sill Moldings, illuminated

$456
Volvo Hands-free with Bluetooth

$388
iPodŽ/USB Music Interface

$361
Features
Horsepower 311 @ 5,950 RPM; Torque 325 ft./lbs. @ 3,950 RPM
V8, 4.4-liter engine
6-Speed Geartronic Automatic Transmission
All Wheel Drive with Instant Traction
Dynamic Stability Traction Control (DSTC)
Whiplash Protection Seating System (WHIPS)
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
Side Impact Protection System (SIPS) with Dual Chamber Airbags
Personal Car Communicator (PCC) with Keyless Drive, Two-Way Car Communicator and Heartbeat Sensor
Soft Leather Seating Surfaces
Power Glass Sunroof
Pyrotechnical Pretensioners, All Seats
Leather Seating Surfaces
Dual-Zone Electronic Climate Control (ECC)
AUX-Input and In-dash 6-CD Changer with MP3 Capability
17" Meissa Alloy Wheels
Genuine Classic Wood Inlays
Power Driver (with memory) and Passenger Seat
Power Glass Sunroof
Warranty
4 Years or 50,000 miles, whichever occurs first
Roadside Assistance
Volvo On Call Roadside Assistance 4 Years
DESTINATION FE$
745Sorry, but if it doesn't have adequate rear seat space, it ain't happenin'! It's too small and stuck not knowing what it wants to be, all out sporty or all out luxury. It does neither well enough...

AMGoff
08-27-07, 12:30 PM
I do like Volvos... but I'll never think of them as a luxury car. They're a family car... albeit an affluent family car, one who prioritizes both comfort and safety. The V8 S80 is as big a ripoff as it is unnecessary. The only Volvo that needs a V8 is the XC90... it's the size of a luxury car and provides extra utility, again great for families, but then we're back in the $55-60K range. The sweet spot in the Volvo line is the V6 S80... which can be had nicely appointed for $40K.. especially when compared to the S60, which starts at $33K, is a smidge smaller and comes with a coarse 5 cylinder. Still, even at $40K one can pick up a "lesser" car that shouts luxury more than a Volvo. I'm not saying they're not nice and that I don't like... I'm just saying if you have that kind of dough and are in the market for a luxomobile a Volvo just doesn't fit the bill.

Playdrv4me
08-27-07, 02:33 PM
Yea, I agree, the V6 S80 is just about perfect for the price category it sits in. The V8 will make a nice used buy, but the V6 is so good that it kind of makes the V8 redundant.

96Fleetwood
08-27-07, 02:52 PM
A $64,000 dollar Volvo?!!!

No thanks. I don't really care what options it has, if I am driving a car that expensive, it better have the prestige a car of that price range should. I would take a Infiniti M45 sport, BMW 545i, Cadillac STS V8, or Lexus GS430 before that anyday.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-27-07, 03:44 PM
Volvo (and Saab for that matter) have never had the luxury panache that BMW, Audi, M-B, Jaguar, Infiniti or even Lexus has. They're more on a level with Acura, but they're not as hip as Acura.

Lord Cadillac
08-27-07, 04:50 PM
Infiniti and Acura are both hurting because of the success of Lexus.. For example, the Lexus LS does EXACTLY what it's supposed to do - perfectly. If you want that type of car, you cannot get any better. The Acura RL tried, made a great attempt, and failed. Same goes for the Infiniti Q45 - which I've always liked very much. I haven't sat in an Acura RL lately (because they're small now) but I HAVE sat in an Infiniti Q45 - and while I love the exterior (I know, that's odd), the interior just didn't do anything for me. The quality and feel were subpar compared to that of the Lexus LS...

Lord Cadillac
08-27-07, 05:01 PM
Click here (http://www.automotivemessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=12678). Or be a twerp and don't!

Playdrv4me
08-27-07, 05:05 PM
I think youd be surprised with the fit and finish of the NEW RL but it doesnt matter anyway, why? Because its still a small Front wheel drive (AWD Front) car. Its absolutely gorgeous inside, its got the biggest nav screen on the planet, and EVERY F-ing feature STANDARD... but its still, just a small average getaroundmobile. The LS, bland as it may be, has always had presence... even if stolen from MB and BMW.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-27-07, 05:43 PM
I was looking at my car yesterday (well, maybe Gazing would be a better word :bigroll: ), but I realized that Acura stole the C-pillar and the taillights from my car when they designed the first gen RL.

96Fleetwood
08-27-07, 05:53 PM
Ah.. the new Acura RL. My Dad bought one of the first in Virginia back in late 2004. It was a 2005 model, loaded to the brim as they all are.


http://members.cox.net/shaheenimport/rl6.JPG

He kept it for 5,000 miles/6 months and traded it on a brand new Dodge Charger SRT-8.

Why?

Numerous electrical gremlins. The bluetooth never worked, the voice command on the HVAC and Radio always messed up, and worst of all.. the moonroof would open and close on its own randomly. Acura refused to buy it back and my Dad refused to pay $$$ to sue them.. so he traded it in.

Pretty car though and the SH-AWD & paddle shifters were awesome.

thebigjimsho
08-27-07, 06:09 PM
Ah.. the new Acura RL. My Dad bought one of the first in Virginia back in late 2004. It was a 2005 model, loaded to the brim as they all are.


http://members.cox.net/shaheenimport/rl6.JPG

He kept it for 5,000 miles/6 months and traded it on a brand new Dodge Charger SRT-8.

Why?

Numerous electrical gremlins. The bluetooth never worked, the voice command on the HVAC and Radio always messed up, and worst of all.. the moonroof would open and close on its own randomly. Acura refused to buy it back and my Dad refused to pay $$$ to sue them.. so he traded it in.

Pretty car though and the SH-AWD & paddle shifters were awesome.If they only made it larger...

I still don't understand the logic of making it the same size as the TL. I know they are different and have different purposes, but the TL needs the SH-AWD more than the RL does. If the RL was 10 inches longer, with much of that going to rear seat room, then you'd have a real contender...

Sandy
08-27-07, 07:54 PM
I'm sorry - But, I still love the S80 fully loaded the best. It's something you don't see in every parking lot, it stands out. It's appointed equal or better than any of the aforementioned makes. It is unique.

By the way, just today the US highway & safety authority named the S80 the safest car one can buy. You'll probably hear it tonight on thr news.

I'd be ordering one, now, but I need to cough up $44,000 after selling my '03 Town Car, which mow has 10,000 miles on it, and the back seat was never unwrapped! Still has thre factory plastic on it.
I don't wanna deplete the savings of $44,000. Car VS $$$$ I think the $$$$$ is gonna win out, but I still lust after that car !!

96Fleetwood
08-27-07, 08:48 PM
I just hope the resale value is not as bad as the previous S80.. then again you are probably taking a big hit with the Town Car too.

I just re-read the options that S80 boasts and everything there can be had in a M45 sport for $14,000 less.

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/images/volvo_s80_new_1.jpg

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/images/volvo_s80_new.jpg

http://www.dealersinsight.com/images/infiniti-m45-1.jpg

http://www.car-list.com/newcars/2006/image/2006_infiniti_m45_sport_rear.jpg

The Volvo is nice, and I do like my sister's S60R.. but I would take a slightly used Cadillac STS-V for the kind of money you are about to spend. How come the STS-V or ......

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/auto/images/cadillac-sts-v-1.jpg

Jaguar XJ8 with a MSRP of $63K are not on your list?

http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/aic/jaguar_xjseries_xj8_2008_450x225.jpg


With a MSRP for the S80 at $64K, I fear Volvo is going to make the same mistake that VW did with the Phaeton (a vehicle I do like). They do well in the overseas markets, but can we see them going head to head with the big boys?

Lord Cadillac
08-27-07, 08:51 PM
In regards to the RL, I agree that it's VERY nice - just a little small.. I haven't sat in one, actually.. I wonder how the leather compares to my favorite Lexus semi-analine leather.

Playdrv4me
08-27-07, 09:43 PM
I just hope the resale value is not as bad as the previous S80.. then again you are probably taking a big hit with the Town Car too.

I just re-read the options that S80 boasts and everything there can be had in a M45 sport for $14,000 less.

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/images/volvo_s80_new_1.jpg

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/images/volvo_s80_new.jpg

http://www.dealersinsight.com/images/infiniti-m45-1.jpg

http://www.car-list.com/newcars/2006/image/2006_infiniti_m45_sport_rear.jpg

The Volvo is nice, and I do like my sister's S60R.. but I would take a slightly used Cadillac STS-V for the kind of money you are about to spend. How come the STS-V or ......

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/auto/images/cadillac-sts-v-1.jpg

Jaguar XJ8 with a MSRP of $63K are not on your list?

http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/aic/jaguar_xjseries_xj8_2008_450x225.jpg


With a MSRP for the S80 at $64K, I fear Volvo is going to make the same mistake that VW did with the Phaeton (a vehicle I do like). They do well in the overseas markets, but can we see them going head to head with the big boys?

Man thats amazing, from the rear quarter view the M45 and the S80 have a nearly identical stance and roofline. I will agree the new S80 is a pretty car, but yea, not 64k pretty, especially since a brand new STS-V like you mentioned can be had for 60-ish out the door.

Sandy
08-27-07, 10:28 PM
When I look at the M45, while a nice ride, I see Maxima all over it.
The STS costs more than the Volvo - alot more, fully loaded, and I do
believe that it is smaller. The only Cad I'd buy would be the DTS.

The Jag XJ would have to have zero options to be in the S80 price arena.
I would be torn between thr S80 overLOADED and the DTS, likewise overLOADED. I also looked at (TODAY) and drove a Saab 9.5 AERO.
Nice nice car, great road car, and way more affordable, even with ALL the toys. But, something intangeable was missing. Not sure what, but I think it wasn't as comfortable as my Town Car. Had good power, but it did not posess the combination lock to open my heart & wallet.
I think the Caddy would be White and the Volvo Black.

Jesda
08-27-07, 11:00 PM
The SHAWD system in the RL helps, but its still inferior to a proper RWD sport sedan (BMW 5-series).

AMGoff
08-27-07, 11:33 PM
Honestly... I think the only thing that will come close to the ride of your Town Car (aside from another Town Car) is the DTS and you can get one loaded to the gills for a cool $55K. Or you could go all out and try to get your hands on a DTS-L.. the extra 8 inches of wheelbase would have to serve up one hell of a ride.. plus just image toolin down the highway in one of these...

http://images.motortrend.com/auto_shows/coverage/los_angeles/112_0611_la_show_263z+2007_cadillac+dtsl+driver_si de_view.jpg

http://www.autoblog.com/media/2006/11/x07ca_dt007.jpg

Either way, it's really hard for me to say because if I were in the market for a brand new vehicle I couldn't pass up one of these...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/2008_Buick_Enclave.JPG/800px-2008_Buick_Enclave.JPG

Kadonny
08-28-07, 08:20 AM
I loved the looks of the first Q45. It looked great and it ran like a raped ape. Unfortunately at the time I could never afford a car like that, so I never got a chance to own one.

Now that I can own one, Infinity doesn't have a car that appeals to me, not to mention I promised myself I would never buy a Japanese car.

I don't care what you say about Lexus, when people talk casually there are 3 horses in the luxury race. Benz, BMW, and Caddy. I will say however that Audi and Lexus are on the rise but Infinity, Jag and Volvo are never mentioned

Just my observation.

Sandy
08-28-07, 09:13 AM
The DTS is a beauty. I could not get the extended one, as the all important moonroof is not available on (with) the extended body.
The 3 in the running are S80 / a new Town Car or a DTS.

Problem with the T.C. is that it's 100% identical to my 2003 T.C. that only has 10,000 miles on it. I mean, really, whats the point? I need to go drive a NEW DTS & and a new S80 V8.
Ever go fishing ? Ever talk about that BIG one, that slipped away?
'Ya, that was my 2006 Q45! Damn.:eek::crybaby:

96Fleetwood
08-28-07, 03:42 PM
I agree, go drive the DTS and S80, that is the only way you can truly make up your mind.

I have a feeling you will be back in Cadillac very soon... the Town Car is light years behind the DTS and needs an update badly.. then again it is dying off isn't it?

Night Wolf
08-28-07, 04:16 PM
The DTS is a beauty. I could not get the extended one, as the all important moonroof is not available on (with) the extended body.
The 3 in the running are S80 / a new Town Car or a DTS.

Problem with the T.C. is that it's 100% identical to my 2003 T.C. that only has 10,000 miles on it. I mean, really, whats the point? I need to go drive a NEW DTS & and a new S80 V8.
Ever go fishing ? Ever talk about that BIG one, that slipped away?
'Ya, that was my 2006 Q45! Damn.:eek::crybaby:

It has a tachometer :) Dash/door panels are slightly different...

But, I just realized I've put the same miles on my Town Car in a bit less then 5 months, as you have in 4 years on yours! Heh....

Lord Cadillac
08-28-07, 04:52 PM
The LWB DTS really does look nice!

Sandy
08-28-07, 09:39 PM
2008 Town Car goes into production Jan. 2nd and dies in June, '08. Zero changes for '08. 55% for Livery & 45% for private use. I still like the car & it's ultra smooth ride & heavy feel on the road as well as its many amenties and power close trunk and especially the keypad on the driver's door.

I went to see (price) the Volvo tonite. NEVER have I seen a car with so many toys. I thought I was in "Toys 'R Us" toy store!
I realized that between the car....and the money, I'd rather have the $$$.
It's a very expensive car! The below are DEALER INVOICE pricing. (Yes, I have a friend who sells at a Volvo Store.

$44,544 - 2008 Volvo S80
$00,745 -Destination
$00,752 - Climate Package
$00,598 - Blind Spot Info System
$01,823 - Navagation
$00,426 - Front & Rear Parking Sensors
$01,286 - Adoptive Speed Control + Accidence Avoidence + Auto. Braking
$00,280 - Leather & Wood Trimmed Steering wheel
$01,333 - Chrome 18" Wheels
$00,538 - Pearlescent Ivory
$01,734 - Sport Equipment Group
$00,495 - Personal Car Communicator
$00,716 - Rear Vision Camera Mounted next to Rr. Lic. Plate visable on Navi.
$00,392 - Soft Blue Glow Illuminated Door Entry Sills
$00,334 - Blue Tooth System
$00,311 - I-Pod Interface
$03,049 - Entertainment Center (Sirius Radio/Dynaudio Stereo System with Power Amps, Subwoofers, MP3, 6-Disc In Dash Auto Changer C.D. & twin Rear Seat DVDs in headrests, with wireless headphones)
$00.074 - Trunk Reversable Cargo Mat Vinyl 1 side, & Carpet on the other.
$59,410 - Total Invoice
Their Minimum deal ia 1.5 percent profit of Invoice, so that's
$00,900 - Profit
$60,310 - Total, without 7% N.J. Sales Tax
$04,222 - Sales Tax
$64,532 - What it costs ! :crybaby:

or..... $21,000 more than a new Town Car Huummmmm

AMGoff
08-28-07, 11:06 PM
Did you get a price on the DTS-L? Power sunroofs can be put in pretty cheap these days. You'd still probably come out cheaper and still have all the toys all in a ride that would be as distinctive as it would be menacing, especially in jet-black :yup:

Sandy
08-28-07, 11:17 PM
If the DTS-L is longer than my Towniee (215 inches) it will not fit in the garage. I think that it probably is longer than 215. I know that the Town Car L will not fit.

The problem is that the Cadillac dealer in my county closed up, and the one in the next nearest county has avery baaad reputation, and then the next closest ios a trip! Like 22 miles each direction. That's far in New Jersey, where there is so much retail everywhere you look. That's 44 miles round trip for my "free" oil Change. My prior great dealer - where I bought my 60 Special was 5 miles from me. He closed because a developer offered him 6.5 million for his land. He closed that week!!

thebigjimsho
08-28-07, 11:31 PM
It has a tachometer :) Dash/door panels are slightly different...

But, I just realized I've put the same miles on my Town Car in a bit less then 5 months, as you have in 4 years on yours! Heh....Meh...my '04 has 217,000 miles...

Time to get a new one. As for Caddy dealers, you should make the trip up to MA to Olsen. Lincoln dealers? Acton is where it's at. They are the #3 Town Car purchaser behind Hertz and Avis.

AMGoff
08-29-07, 12:48 AM
If the DTS-L is longer than my Towniee (215 inches) it will not fit in the garage. I think that it probably is longer than 215. I know that the Town Car L will not fit.

The problem is that the Cadillac dealer in my county closed up, and the one in the next nearest county has avery baaad reputation, and then the next closest ios a trip! Like 22 miles each direction. That's far in New Jersey, where there is so much retail everywhere you look. That's 44 miles round trip for my "free" oil Change. My prior great dealer - where I bought my 60 Special was 5 miles from me. He closed because a developer offered him 6.5 million for his land. He closed that week!!

Don't know where about in Jersey you are, I'm down south so I'm pretty used to driving 20 miles for everything. I know the two closest ones to me closed up shop.. Winner in Pennsville closed a long time ago and Vally & Bowe in Woodbury not all that long ago. I wouldn't go to Kerbeck even if they gave me a car, RK in Vineland and Novick in Bridgeton are somewhat iffy, and I have no experience at all with Desimone. Winner used to be decent, my grandpop dealt with them for years... then V&B after they closed... I actually didn't even realize that V&B closed until I purchased my Seville.

Sandy
08-29-07, 09:24 AM
The only one of all of those that I ever heard of is Kerbeck, 'cause they are so big and have so many different brands of cars, and sometimes advertise a little, up here.
My former dealer was an in-town, smallish 50 year, 3 generation dealer with a good rep for sales & service. They were Cadillac & Oldsmobile - in the late 1990s they added Buick & Pontiac.

After they sold for that 6.5 Mil and the building was bulldozed, I went to another dealer, but I hate the "HighwayWhores" and that's were I went to. 'Ya know, the GIANT MEGA STORE 7 brands under 1 roof, 1,000 used cars in stock" kinda schtick. So, that was when my 60 Special's power trunk pull down worm screw quit working. They charged me $500 for the new one and installation. I screamed and protested. They lowered the price to $400.
I paid and will never return. So... the next closest non highway people processing house is 22 miles out, and kinda a schlep to get to.
Which is the why of why I bought a Lincoln in 2003. The local Lincoln Dealership has been voted #1 in the country for 7 consecutive years, winning the president's award for 7 years. They treat me like I am God !
Their CSI is at the very top (Customer Satisfaction Index). I am thrilled to go there.

ted tcb
08-29-07, 10:04 AM
Sandy, unless my math fails me, that $44,000 Volvo increases by almost 50% with taxes and options???

That's outrageous ... even charging you for a cargo mat?

AMGoff
08-29-07, 12:58 PM
I went to another dealer, but I hate the "HighwayWhores" and that's were I went to. 'Ya know, the GIANT MEGA STORE 7 brands under 1 roof, 1,000 used cars in stock" kinda schtick. So, that was when my 60 Special's power trunk pull down worm screw quit working. They charged me $500 for the new one and installation. I screamed and protested. They lowered the price to $400.
I paid and will never return..

Kerbeck is the same way.. a mega dealer who would probably sell maytags if they could. Constantly advertise as the largest inventory of new and pre-owned Cadillacs.. meet or beat any price.. yada yada yada... But they are the typical "Don't know ya after the sale" kind of dealer. I've heard so many horror stories about them I can't even imagine how they manage to get new customers.

96Fleetwood
08-30-07, 07:09 PM
Man, you have to love the depreciation!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-Cadillac-DTS-PERFORMANCE-ONLY-4K-MLS-GM-PROGRAM_W0QQitemZ330160388814QQihZ014QQcategoryZ61 46QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/469-SUPERCHARGED-HP-BOSE-SURROUND-SOUND-CALL-TODAY_W0QQitemZ250159030010QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1241 17QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I would take those two over the Volvo anyday.

Playdrv4me
08-31-07, 12:12 AM
You think thats good, Chesrown Cadillac (one of our sponsors) has an 06 STS-V with 9k for 42,988. Which means somewhere out there theres one for 40.

96Fleetwood
08-31-07, 03:51 PM
You think thats good, Chesrown Cadillac (one of our sponsors) has an 06 STS-V with 9k for 42,988. Which means somewhere out there theres one for 40.

Oh, trust me.. I know. There have been some at the auction for as low as $35K

AMGoff
08-31-07, 05:56 PM
Ha! How about this one! (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=218208920&dealer_id=32858214&car_year=2005&model=XLR&num_records=25&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=CAD&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=08098&advanced=y&end_year=2008&doors=&transmission=&max_price=40000&cardist=80)

Playdrv4me
08-31-07, 09:02 PM
Ha! How about this one! (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=218208920&dealer_id=32858214&car_year=2005&model=XLR&num_records=25&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=CAD&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=08098&advanced=y&end_year=2008&doors=&transmission=&max_price=40000&cardist=80)

Those EAG guys specialize in Insurance write-off vehicles, for various reasons. Id be real careful buying anything from them.

However if your patient there are definitely XLRs out there for that kinda money.

AMGoff
09-01-07, 01:00 AM
It was merely an example of the ridiculous depreciation that plagues Cadillac... here's another... (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=227080855&dealer_id=568092&car_year=2004&model=XLR&num_records=25&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&engine=&keywordsrep=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=CAD&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&isDWSI=false&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=08098&advanced=y&end_year=2008&doors=&transmission=&max_price=40000&cardist=762)

Night Wolf
09-01-07, 01:43 AM
Sadly, most American cars suffer from that. While the imports, especially Japaneese cars (Atleast the trio) remain with high resale value.

PERSONALLY I like cars with low resale value, that means I can buy one hell of a car for cheap, which is how I buy my cars.

I paid $3,500 for my '96 Lincoln Town Car, fully loaded, with 93k miles.

A family member bought a '01 Toyota Camry, basic model (not even cruise control) with 60k for $8,900.

I could never see paying such a high amount for such a basic car..... it just dosn't make sense in my mind.

Playdrv4me
09-01-07, 02:17 AM
few brands are immune to it. A W12 phaeton cn be had for mid to high 20k's now and that was a 100k car new in 2004.

AznPrydeRegalRyde
09-01-07, 12:32 PM
few brands are immune to it. A W12 phaeton cn be had for mid to high 20k's now and that was a 100k car new in 2004.That car had some of the worst resale in recent history. Sales were crap, too. If you are looking for a rare super luxurious car that doesn't cost too much, the Phaeton is the one to get!

I've only seen 1 phaeton ever.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-01-07, 12:44 PM
Yeah, but what a beautifiul car they were, gorgeous inside and out. When those were new, they were my favorite car in that class. Even the A8 took second chair to it!

AznPrydeRegalRyde
09-01-07, 12:56 PM
Yeah, but what a beautifiul car they were, gorgeous inside and out. When those were new, they were my favorite car in that class. Even the A8 took second chair to it!Also the probable reason why they didn't sell well. Hard to sell such an expensive VW when most of the delearships were not trained to fix them. And you got a Huge VW badge in place of 4 interlocked Audi rings. Yea, they were something special. I've never actually sat in one, or driven one. But every review has said they were a spectacular car that never crossed peoples' minds.

Heres an 04 with a b-i-n of $24k. V8, awd, fully loaded, 80k miles. Not a bad price for a car that cost 3-4 times as much just 3 years ago.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Phaeton-ONE-OWNER-2004-VOLKSWAGEN-PHAETON-W8-NAVIGATION-HTD-AIR-SEATS-81K_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ147119QQihZ017QQite mZ270158832072QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-01-07, 01:14 PM
I could see myself getting into one of those.....

Night Wolf
09-01-07, 04:11 PM
I like them alot too.... though I don't like the interior color of that particular version.

Sandy
09-01-07, 08:29 PM
I have seen a total of 6 on the road, since into.
I also took one out for a demo ride. Perfection is the word that comes to mind. I can tell you to whom they really appealed to, as I watched who bought them. They appealed to people who:

1) Have a lot of money - I mean >> ALOT !!
2) Want to keep a low profile and not advertise the fact in #1 above.
3) Would NEVER drive a Benz, A8, Caddy, Lincoln, a Lexi, or any Infiniti.
4) Would dirve and trade in a Volvo, a Buick, or a Chrysler.
5) Will keep the car at the very least 8 years, probably longer
6) Are at the VERY least, age 57.
7) Are definately NOT trendy
8) Belong to a conservative Republican Country Club.
9) Vacation off Cape Cod at a 2nd home.
10 Paid Cash by wire from their acct. to the dealer's account.
About $ 100,000
and
then can tell their friends, "Oh, Yes, we DID get a new car, but....
it's just a Volkswagon.......

JimHare
09-02-07, 01:29 AM
Volvo, at least to me, has to overcome the "tweedy pipe-smoking college professor" and "drndl-garbed, birkenstock-wearing pottery maven" image that they used to have. Growing up, my family had at least half-a-dozen of them in the 60s and 70s - a couple of 122s, a 242, a 264, I had a 1963 P-1800 with a supercharger in college, and my mother put about 16 gazillion miles on the 244 Hatchback wagon they finally traded in last year on an Outback. Back in the 80s, the Mater and Pater used to fly to Sweden every other year or so, pick up a new Volvo at Goteborg, and drive it all over Europe, then ship it home. (This was when they were spending my inheritance.. lol) They would regularly put in excess of 100K on them before trading in.

The 244's odometer stopped working at 350K, and that was about 6 years ago....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-02-07, 01:04 PM
I have seen a total of 6 on the road, since into.
I also took one out for a demo ride. Perfection is the word that comes to mind. I can tell you to whom they really appealed to, as I watched who bought them. They appealed to people who:

1) Have a lot of money - I mean >> ALOT !!
2) Want to keep a low profile and not advertise the fact in #1 above.
3) Would NEVER drive a Benz, A8, Caddy, Lincoln, a Lexi, or any Infiniti.
4) Would dirve and trade in a Volvo, a Buick, or a Chrysler.
5) Will keep the car at the very least 8 years, probably longer
6) Are at the VERY least, age 57.
7) Are definately NOT trendy
8) Belong to a conservative Republican Country Club.
9) Vacation off Cape Cod at a 2nd home.
10 Paid Cash by wire from their acct. to the dealer's account.
About $ 100,000
and
then can tell their friends, "Oh, Yes, we DID get a new car, but....
it's just a Volkswagon.......


Sandy, your knowledge of the automotive business and the buying trends behind it amaze me. :thumbsup:

96Fleetwood
09-02-07, 01:22 PM
My girl and I are planning to buy a Phaeton come spring 2008. We test drove a 2005 V8 with the Tech, Cold, and Comfort packages yesterday and both fell in love. Personally, I would love to find one with the 4 passenger seating, but they are rare in V8 form. Hopefully we can sell her QX4 for some good money and get a nice Phaeton with under 40K miles for under $30K. :thumbsup: Since both of us will be doctors, I figure we should have at least one true luxury car ;) to justify all the hard work we did in the last 10 years.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-02-07, 05:03 PM
Why not a W-12 model Elias?

96Fleetwood
09-02-07, 05:06 PM
Why not a W-12 model Elias?


I figure we will start with a fully loaded V8 Phaeton and then if she likes it we will get a W12 A8L or a V10 S8 later down the road.

For me.. I will be happy with my CTS-V or C6 Vette as a daily driver :D

Sandy
09-03-07, 01:38 AM
"" Sandy, your knowledge of the automotive business and the buying trends behind it amaze me. ""



That happens after spending 30 years in the business.

1-10 years - You learn to spot the B.S.

11-20 Years - You reach a level of correctly identifying the B.S. 87% of the time

21-30 Years - You can identify the color of the B.S.ers underwear. :D