: Will the REAL Dexcool Please Stand Up?



jh225
08-25-07, 12:53 PM
Another thread got me thinking about what a GM (Cadd/Chev) tech recently told me when I asked him about what kind of water they use to refill radiators. (Tap water, not distilled)

Anyways, he said that current use Dexcool was just plain old regular Ethylene Glycol with a dye in it and the only reason for the dye and continuation of the Dexcool product was for legal reasons.

Well, I just went into my garage, and looked at both a gallon of Prestone Extended Life REGULAR antifreeze and a gallon of Prestone Extended Life Dexcool antifreeze both of which are approved by GM.............

Guess what? They are IDENTICAL

That's right, they both have the exact ingredients, exact same mixtures of the ingredients, etc.

What a crock!

AJxtcman
08-25-07, 01:17 PM
Another thread got me thinking about what a GM (Cadd/Chev) tech recently told me when I asked him about what kind of water they use to refill radiators. (Tap water, not distilled)

Anyways, he said that current use Dexcool was just plain old regular Ethylene Glycol with a dye in it and the only reason for the dye and continuation of the Dexcool product was for legal reasons.

Well, I just went into my garage, and looked at both a gallon of Prestone Extended Life REGULAR antifreeze and a gallon of Prestone Extended Life Dexcool antifreeze both of which are approved by GM.............

Guess what? They are IDENTICAL

That's right, they both have the exact ingredients, exact same mixtures of the ingredients, etc.

What a crock!

Boy I think I said that before.
All they did to make Coolant last longer was removed the SAND.
It is not a new potion, but more like leaded vs unleaded.
The sand eats up water pumps.

jh225
08-25-07, 01:34 PM
Yup, so in reality, mixing the new dexcool stuff with the old is really the same as mixing the old dexcool with regular AF.

Either way, they will both be in your engine as there is no way to get all of the old stuff out with a normal drain (hose off, let drain) There will always be some residual. One MIGHT get it all out with a serious flushing, but I am willing to bet that very few people flush long or well enough to get it out.

I just did mine with a regular draining to replace a hose. I think I am going to redo it and give it a serious flush.

AJxtcman
08-25-07, 02:44 PM
Yup, so in reality, mixing the new dexcool stuff with the old is really the same as mixing the old dexcool with regular AF.

Either way, they will both be in your engine as there is no way to get all of the old stuff out with a normal drain (hose off, let drain) There will always be some residual. One MIGHT get it all out with a serious flushing, but I am willing to bet that very few people flush long or well enough to get it out.

I just did mine with a regular draining to replace a hose. I think I am going to redo it and give it a serious flush.

The old Coolant used by all manufacturer had sand in it. Dex-Cool does not. Most long life coolants or all long life coolant do not. I know it is call silicate free, but silicate is close to sand and GM has called it "basically sand".
If you put old green coolant in the cooling system it is like adding sand and then you will need to flush it every year. This is because the sand will settle out --- precipitate

Ranger
08-25-07, 08:00 PM
It also takes it's toll on water pump seals.

Submariner409
08-25-07, 08:33 PM
:bigroll: Think back a few years, all you engine builders and ASE techs......Remember your questions when the antifreeze jugs began sticking the phrase "low silicate formula" in the back panel list of why you should buy THIS coolant ?? Somewhere, somehow the blenders of ethylene glycols came to the realization that the silicates, used as a binder and flow enhancer in viscous fluids, were really an abrasive. Fast forward to the DexCool breed. A logical chemical progression of applied chemistry. For reference, QUICK, how many oil service designators (SF, SG, SL....) have we gone through in the last ....8 years ???

jadcock
08-27-07, 08:28 AM
Anyways, he said that current use Dexcool was just plain old regular Ethylene Glycol with a dye in it and the only reason for the dye and continuation of the Dexcool product was for legal reasons.

First, he's a technician. In a dealership. He fixes cars, and I'm sure he's wonderful at it. But he's not an engineer, nor is he a lawyer. He's speaking out of turn (and NOT out of first-hand knowledge) when he says that.


Well, I just went into my garage, and looked at both a gallon of Prestone Extended Life REGULAR antifreeze and a gallon of Prestone Extended Life Dexcool antifreeze both of which are approved by GM.............

Guess what? They are IDENTICAL

That's right, they both have the exact ingredients, exact same mixtures of the ingredients, etc.

This is very different from your first passage. He said that Dexcool was "plain old regular ethylene glycol with a dye". The jug of "Prestone Extended Life REGULAR antifreeze" you have in the trash is not "plain old regular ethylene glycol".

I would also encourage you to contact Prestone and examine the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for both coolants. The "ingredients" they list on the bottle is NOT an all-inclusive list. They're going to put on there what they want you to see, and they're going to leave off any proprietary information that you can't see. That's not regulated. Concluding that two coolant formulations are identical because of the consumer-level ingredient list on the jug is really mis-leading yourself (seriously).

That generic Prestone jug is supposed to fill a Honda, a Ford, a GM, a Toyota, a Mercedes, a Chrysler, etc. Would you put Chrysler-specific coolant in your Cadillac? I hope not. Chrysler uses a Hybrid Organic Acid Technology coolant, often called HOAT. It's got some silicates in it. As does Honda's fluid. Dexcool is a true Organic Acid Technology coolant (OAT). They are different. That generic Prestone is supposed to service ALL types of cooling systems. Sorry, not buying it. What's acceptable to all is ideal for none. There IS a difference between that generic Prestone bottle and the Prestone Dexcool bottle. It's just not shown in the ingredients list.

dkozloski
08-27-07, 11:22 AM
First, he's a technician. In a dealership. He fixes cars, and I'm sure he's wonderful at it. But he's not an engineer, nor is he a lawyer. He's speaking out of turn (and NOT out of first-hand knowledge) when he says that.



This is very different from your first passage. He said that Dexcool was "plain old regular ethylene glycol with a dye". The jug of "Prestone Extended Life REGULAR antifreeze" you have in the trash is not "plain old regular ethylene glycol".

I would also encourage you to contact Prestone and examine the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for both coolants. The "ingredients" they list on the bottle is NOT an all-inclusive list. They're going to put on there what they want you to see, and they're going to leave off any proprietary information that you can't see. That's not regulated. Concluding that two coolant formulations are identical because of the consumer-level ingredient list on the jug is really mis-leading yourself (seriously).

That generic Prestone jug is supposed to fill a Honda, a Ford, a GM, a Toyota, a Mercedes, a Chrysler, etc. Would you put Chrysler-specific coolant in your Cadillac? I hope not. Chrysler uses a Hybrid Organic Acid Technology coolant, often called HOAT. It's got some silicates in it. As does Honda's fluid. Dexcool is a true Organic Acid Technology coolant (OAT). They are different. That generic Prestone is supposed to service ALL types of cooling systems. Sorry, not buying it. What's acceptable to all is ideal for none. There IS a difference between that generic Prestone bottle and the Prestone Dexcool bottle. It's just not shown in the ingredients list.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Just follow the advice that Bbob gave us all years ago and you can't go wrong. What he said then still applies. If the car has green antifreeze in it keep using it. If it has DexCool keep using it. If the DexCool is changed to green keep using green. Stay away from the universal mixes if you have DexCool.

jh225
08-27-07, 09:11 PM
Stay away from the universal mixes if you have DexCool.

So you are saying that the Prestone "Dexcool" should not be used?

What then, strictly GM brand Dexcool?

If you are saying that, I call BS, sorry.

dkozloski
08-28-07, 12:44 AM
Use Dexcool and not universal fitsall replacements. There should be a GM spec listed on the container. There is also some argument as to whether the product should actually be tested by GM and not just claim to meet the spec.

Ranger
08-28-07, 01:02 AM
I suspect if it says "DexCool" it is OK. I doubt they could use that name without the Generals blessing.

dkozloski
08-28-07, 11:23 AM
I suspect if it says "DexCool" it is OK. I doubt they could use that name without the Generals blessing.
There have been so many bulletins and releases by the General it's hard to keep track anymore. GM has made statements that products claiming they meet GM specs may not have been tested by them and may not perform as required. There have also been some lawsuits involving unauthorized use of the "Dex-Cool" logo. Maybe someone can produce a current list of GM tested and approved products. The newest I've seen is a couple of years old. For years the only tried and true product was supplied by Texaco but I don't know how that was affected by the Chevron/Texaco merger. I have seen several warnings about the so-called "universal" products.

urbanski
08-28-07, 12:27 PM
For reference, QUICK, how many oil service designators (SF, SG, SL....) have we gone through in the last ....8 years ???

42..

AJxtcman
09-13-07, 07:40 AM
GM Document ID# 690675
2003 Cadillac DeVille

Cooling System Description and Operation

Coolant
The engine coolant is a solution made up of a 50/50 mixture of DEX-COOL and clean drinkable water. The coolant solution carries excess heat away from the engine to the radiator, where the heat is dissipated to the atmosphere.

GM Document ID# 519320
2000 Cadillac DeVille

Coolant Description
This vehicle has a newly developed engine coolant. GM Goodwrench® DEX-COOL® was developed to last for 240 000 km (150,000 mi) or 5 years, whichever occurs first. Follow the instructions in Draining and Filling Cooling System. Make sure only GM Goodwrench® DEX-COOL® (silicate-free) or Havoline® DEX-COOL® is used when coolant is added or changed.

A 50/50 mixture of DEX-COOL® and water will provide the following protection:

Notice: Pure coolant can be added to raise the boiling point of the coolant, but too much will affect the freezing point. Do not use a solution stronger than 70 percent, as the freeze level rises rapidly after this point. Pure coolant will freeze at -22°C (-8°F).


Give freezing protection down to -37°C (-34°F).
Give boiling protection up to 129°C (260°F).
Protect against rust and corrosion.
Help keep the proper engine temperature.
Let the warning lights and gauges work correctly.

jh225
09-13-07, 08:04 AM
"Clean drinkable water"

Pretty much means household tap water is just fine, huh guys?

Unless of course your house water is just so bad you can't drink it.

Distilled is great if you have it, but obviuosly, tap is also fine.

Patrick7997
09-15-07, 01:31 PM
Some of the Dexcool containers have the GM sybol on them, and say "GM Approved". Use those.

At 50 cents a gallon, why not use distilled water??? Why do you want minerals in your aluminum engine???

AJxtcman
09-15-07, 01:38 PM
Some of the Dexcool containers have the GM sybol on them, and say "GM Approved". Use those.

At 50 cents a gallon, why not use distilled water??? Why do you want minerals in your aluminum engine???

Maybe the calcium will strengthen it.:suspense:
or two dissimilar metals and an acid will give you a little more boost in power.

MM STS
09-17-07, 09:56 PM
Great discussion on coolants. From what I remember distilled water is not something you would want to drink. If this is true maybe water run through a Britta maybe the better compromise. We used distilled water in the batteries and to clean the sample tubes when taking cooling tower water samples. I know most automotive batteries are sealed anymore too. Mike



"Clean drinkable water"

Pretty much means household tap water is just fine, huh guys?

Unless of course your house water is just so bad you can't drink it.

Distilled is great if you have it, but obviuosly, tap is also fine.

Ranger
09-17-07, 11:53 PM
From what I remember distilled water is not something you would want to drink.
Really? I always thought it was safe to drink.

dkozloski
09-18-07, 01:06 AM
When an Irishman accidently encountered distilled water he said, "I don't know what the hell it is, but I can tell you right now it'll never sell".

All the potable water you'll encounter on a ship at sea is distilled water.

Jesda
09-18-07, 05:13 AM
Distilled water is completely safe to drink, but the lack of mineral content means it tastes weird.

Its not something you want to drink. :)

Submariner409
09-18-07, 09:50 AM
:highfive: A nuclear submarine, having almost unlimited power and heat reserves, runs a 10,000 gpd steam-fed still 24/7 to supply fresh water for the engineering plant and crew. That product is as tasteless as toilet paper, but surprisingly it makes great coffee water.......(A diesel boat, on the other hand, used a <100gpd electric still to supply 55 men, 4 - 1680 hp diesels, and 252 1-ton wet cells. Hence the name "pig boat")

dkozloski
09-18-07, 10:23 AM
When I was in a Navy guided missile school I stood security watches in the Polaris school barracks. There were certain areas for the ex diesel boat sailors that you had to hold your breath as you walked by.

gothicaleigh
09-18-07, 10:23 AM
Mixing them can gum up your radiator. They are most definately not the "same thing with coloring added".