: Swapping Engine To A Non-Northstar



Pookie E
08-21-07, 03:57 PM
Hello, I would like to know if it is possible to swap a non-Northstar GM engine into a 1997 DeVille, with some modifications. Also, any suggestions on an engine would be helpful.

Thank You

CASTOR TROY
08-21-07, 06:13 PM
blasphemer!!! my your bones turn to ash! may u have boils that puss!

AJxtcman
08-21-07, 06:33 PM
It would be no problem.
I think a 5.3L would be easy.
A 3.8L S/C would work
A 4.0L would work
A Ecotec would work. You may want a S/C version
4.9L will work.
If you would like to change the trans you could do a lot more.
Wait the 5.3L will have to have the trans switched to a 4T65E
You can pull it out of an 08 impala SS

fubar569
08-21-07, 08:40 PM
It would be no problem.
I think a 5.3L would be easy.
A 3.8L S/C would work
A 4.0L would work
A Ecotec would work. You may want a S/C version
4.9L will work.
If you would like to change the trans you could do a lot more.
Wait the 5.3L will have to have the trans switched to a 4T65E
You can pull it out of an 08 impala SS

i'd rather back the 5.3L with the 4T80-E that we have now...those 65's are complete GARBAGE!

AJxtcman
08-21-07, 08:51 PM
i'd rather back the 5.3L with the 4T80-E that we have now...those 65's are complete GARBAGE!

I don't think it will fit. I think the engine and trans collide on the right side. The 4T80E is too big around at the final drive area.

AJxtcman
08-21-07, 08:54 PM
I think the Ecotec is the best choice. You would have to drive like I drive. On the gas or on the brake.

fubar569
08-21-07, 09:29 PM
I don't think it will fit. I think the engine and trans collide on the right side. The 4T80E is too big around at the final drive area.

the 5.3 is LS based...shouldn't it be smaller than a N*?

if i had to have the 65...blech...i'd gut the car, hack it up, and straight mount a ZZ572 before i went through trying to make a 65 live up to any punishment...

Pookie E
08-21-07, 09:48 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

Basically, I need the car as a daily driver since I am transferring to a university in January. I would like keep the original transmission (if possible). Also, I would like to know if the wiring harness is plug and play, and the ECU. I would like to keep the splicing to a minimum.

Sorry For Asking So Many Questions, Your Help Is Very Much Appreciated.

BTW the 5.3L if off a suburban right?

fubar569
08-21-07, 11:02 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

Basically, I need the car as a daily driver since I am transferring to a university in January. I would like keep the original transmission (if possible). Also, I would like to know if the wiring harness is plug and play, and the ECU. I would like to keep the splicing to a minimum.

Sorry For Asking So Many Questions, Your Help Is Very Much Appreciated.

BTW the 5.3L if off a suburban right?

aj and i are just BS'ing the possibilities back & forth...

your best option is to keep the stock N* - if you must, have custom pistons made, get a set of eagle rods, re-ring the motor, and slap it with about 150-175hp worth of squirt juice. Built Transmission is a must...

or just 50-100hp is a safe and proven performance booster. wydopnthrtl??? has sprayed his mostly stock Eldo to 13.9 with 100hp and no other changes (but minor airbox stuff i believe)

the 5.3 we are talking about however comes out of the W chassis cars...grand prix, monte carlo SS, and impala SS - it's a 5.3L LS1 based motor with DOD...303hp from the factory...

keep in mind getting 300hp in a northstar is as easy as buying the right one...330 is not a stretch, and that's an easy 430 with a bottle shot...

i'd keep the car as is...

MYSELF - i have a 1997 Deville as well...with a hacked stock airbox, no cat, custom dual 2.5" catback, no traction control...i have ran a best of 14.76 @ 95 or 96mph with it...

a torque converter, LSD should make the car base 14's...100 shot base 13's...

i have a ported intake waiting and will have an 80mm TB shortly...

she scoots...

AJxtcman
08-21-07, 11:05 PM
aj and i are just BS'ing the possibilities back & forth...

your best option is to keep the stock N* - if you must, have custom pistons made, get a set of eagle rods, re-ring the motor, and slap it with about 150-175hp worth of squirt juice. Built Transmission is a must...

or just 50-100hp is a safe and proven performance booster. wydopnthrtl??? has sprayed his mostly stock Eldo to 13.9 with 100hp and no other changes (but minor airbox stuff i believe)

the 5.3 we are talking about however comes out of the W chassis cars...grand prix, monte carlo SS, and impala SS - it's a 5.3L LS1 based motor with DOD...303hp from the factory...

keep in mind getting 300hp in a northstar is as easy as buying the right one...330 is not a stretch, and that's an easy 430 with a bottle shot...

i'd keep the car as is...

I bet all said and finnished 10K to make it right. No SES or service messages. Yes 10K.

Pookie E
08-22-07, 12:20 AM
Oh, I think you guys misunderstood me.

I have a 1997 Sedan Deville that has 50k miles that went "pop", with the usual problems; overheating, warped heads, timeserts, blah, blah, blah.
The car has been sitting in my driveway for 5 years, and it looks practically brand new. Rather than sending it to the scrap yard, I was thinking about swapping in a Non-Northstar Gm engine. I was looking for something along the lines of mating the stock transmission to the new engine, with some wiring harness splicing, and a ecu swap or some kind of engine management system. I do not want to build a car that kills mustangs.

fubar569
08-22-07, 12:48 AM
Oh, I think you guys misunderstood me.

I have a 1997 Sedan Deville that has 50k miles that went "pop", with the usual problems; overheating, warped heads, timeserts, blah, blah, blah.
The car has been sitting in my driveway for 5 years, and it looks practically brand new. Rather than sending it to the scrap yard, I was thinking about swapping in a Non-Northstar Gm engine. I was looking for something along the lines of mating the stock transmission to the new engine, with some wiring harness splicing, and a ecu swap or some kind of engine management system. I do not want to build a car that kills mustangs.

the far cheaper route to get it running again is aremanufactured northstar motor...about 3k and no mods needed...

to go non-northstar, you will be creating a huge money-pit...like i did trying to get my 84 C4 corvette together with a Mark IV 427 Big Block...

AJxtcman
08-22-07, 07:32 AM
Oh, I think you guys misunderstood me.

I have a 1997 Sedan Deville that has 50k miles that went "pop", with the usual problems; overheating, warped heads, timeserts, blah, blah, blah.
The car has been sitting in my driveway for 5 years, and it looks practically brand new. Rather than sending it to the scrap yard, I was thinking about swapping in a Non-Northstar Gm engine. I was looking for something along the lines of mating the stock transmission to the new engine, with some wiring harness splicing, and a ecu swap or some kind of engine management system. I do not want to build a car that kills mustangs.

Yes you can install an engine. No it will not be a plug and play. 97 Caddy's use all class II data line. Most other GM cars use Class II and UART. Example: 97 Olds Aruora has UART and Class II.
UART Components

The electronic brake (and traction) control module (EBCM/EBTCM)
The inflatable restraint sensing and diagnostic module (SDM)
The heater and A/C programmer
The heater and A/C control
The powertrain control module (PCM)
The instrument cluster
The cellular telephone module

E&C UART

The radio
The heater and A/C control
The heater and A/C programmer
The compact disc (CD) changer
The cellular telephone module


CLASS II

The powertrain control module (PCM)
The remote function actuator (RFA) module


Class 2 data is transmitted at a higher speed. The messages have a different configuration than UART data. While UART uses a master in order to control serial data line traffic, class 2 uses the peer-to-peer method along with message arbitration in order to manage the data line traffic.

This Olds is how most cars of this age are.
Anything listed as UART will not interface with a Cadillac. This means it will not operate corrctly in your Caddy if the PCM is not a Caddy.
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Example #2: 2002 Oldsmobile Aurora

CLASS II

Dash Integration Module (DIM)
Driver Door Module (DDM)
Driver Information Center (DIC)
Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM)
Inflatable Restraint Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM)
Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC)
Instrument Panel Integration Module (IPM)
Memory Seat Module (MSM) w/A45
Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
Radio
Rear Integration Module (RIM)
Remote Control Door Lock Receiver (RCDLR)
Remote Playback Device - CD Changer w/U1S
Theft Deterrent Control Module
Vehicle Communication Interface Module (VCIM)-Generation F1
Vehicle Interface Unit (VIU)-Generation 2.6


Example #3: 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue 3.5L & 2001 Buick Regal 3.8L

CLASS II

Body Control Module (BCM)
Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM)
HVAC Control Module (w/CJ2)
Inflatable Restraint Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM)
Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC)
Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
Vehicle Interface Unit (VIU), if equipped


The Radio is listed UART, but you would be ok.
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So you need a custom Harness, Exhaust, Differnt trans, Axles, AC line, Heater hoses, Radiator hoses, Engine mounts, Craddle mods to fit the mounts. I think you get the picture.

AJxtcman
08-22-07, 07:50 AM
A new short block assembly, part number 89018105, has been released to service 1995-99 Northstar LD8 and L37 applications.

gmpartsdirect
GM PART # 89018105
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $5,208.66
OUR PRICE: $3,118.96

Say you get it at you house for $4k. Machine your heads $200. Gaskets and Misc items $500. If you need exhaust cams $400 each and 16 lifters will be $750 to $800. Now you are at 6K plus labor I would say no more than 20 hours. $1600 to $2000. That would be $8400+


Used engine $1600 max + 20 hours and $500 in misc parts = $3700 to $4000. If the car is nice you can sell it right away before that engine fails. It seems like every second or third used engine will have bad cams and that is another $1600 just for the exhaust cams Plus labor.