: Cadillac CTS vs. MERCEDES E350 looks more accurate than C class. Don't you think?



JBsZ06
08-20-07, 08:25 PM
2007 MERCEDES-BENZ E350 4MATIC
AS-TESTED PRICE: $63,855
DRIVETRAIN: 3.5-liter V6; awd, five-speed automatic
OUTPUT: 268 hp @ 6000 rpm, 258 lb-ft @ 2400-5000 rpm
CURB WEIGHT: 3955 lb
FUEL ECONOMY (EPA/AW): 20/21.3 mpg
OPTIONS: Premium package II including DVD navigation, satellite radio, heated front seats, power rear window sunshade, hands-free communication system, Keyless Go, bi-xenon headlamps with active curve illumination, headlamp washing system ($4,290); black/cognac brown leather ($1,540); panoramic sunroof ($1,000); pewter paint ($700); wood/leather steering wheel ($540); electronic trunk closer ($520); voice control ($500); rear side window blinds ($340); split-folding rear seats ($310); burl walnut ($290)




OUR TAKE: This car’s interior is truly beautiful. The cognac-colored leather looks and feels great, especially with the soft pleats in it. The interior lighting is particularly cool, while the panoramic sunroof just adds to the car’s already pleasant ambience. Even the simple black headliner fabric feels rather special.

The back seat is nice and roomy—there are clever cutouts in the front seatbacks that add a bunch of knee room. In fact, the whole cabin seems to belong to a bigger car.

The car can feel sluggish off the line, forcing one to bury the throttle to get up to speed quickly, but it never loses its composure. And with the optional 18-inch wheels and aggressive Continental rubber, ride quality suffers somewhat over rough surfaces, but for the most part the E drives as smoothly as any on the road.

This car is about due for a refresh, however, and we’re a bit surprised M-B isn’t rolling out a new one at Frankfurt. It’s not that the E-Class needs to be replaced outright, but the new C and S just feel more modern.

One thing we’d like to see in a refresh: simplified radio/navigation controls. Mercedes’ interiors can get a bit overwhelming with all the small buttons scattered about. Then again, if simplifying the controls means stuffing a COMAND system in it, we’ll pass.

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Interior room is about the same? Weight? HP? AWD? everything except price.

CTS Seems to be the better vehicle... What do U think?

96Fleetwood
08-20-07, 08:49 PM
The E350 competes with the V6 and V8 STS.

I still think the C-Class is a good comparison for the CTS. You even have the new C63 coming out to compete with the CTS-V.

avatards
08-20-07, 10:09 PM
The E-klasse is actually smaller than the 2008 CTS in every dimension including wheelbase, although by a few millimeters mostly.

Caddy Man
08-21-07, 12:15 AM
96 fleetwood is right. The 5 series and the E class are compared to the STS. Both the 5 series and the E class offer a V8 as does the STS. Until Cadillac brings in a smaller/cheaper priced car...the CTS IS THE ENTRY LEVEL CAR from Cadillac. This issue was also touched upon in the Automobile Magazine issue in which they tested the C350, 330i, and the new CTS.

AznPrydeRegalRyde
08-21-07, 01:15 AM
Oh god, not this again.....

Without question, the 03-07 CTS is in the 3-series/C-class category. Why? Because thats what it was always compared to. The 03-07 CTS is allready the same size as the E60 5-series. Both are about 190" long and 71" wide. The only ad Ive seen so far that someone here posted showed the 08 CTS in pic with the 335i and the c350.

I still don't understand how anyone thinks the CTS has moved up in category.

MikeB066
08-21-07, 02:01 AM
Darn Cadillac, darn them to heck for trying to break out of the media categorizations about what should compete with what. The CTS offers internal space like a BMW 5-series, performance close to a top line BMW-3 series, and a huge value compared to its genuine competitors. America makes everything bigger, better, and cheaper, let's simply take that as a granted. Is that a bad thing? Some people seem to think so (especially Car & Driver, which I am sincerely convinced is being supplied with a constant supply of cocaine and hookers that results in their constant fawning on anything BMW) except that when you run the numbers and consider reality, a car with the same interior space at half the price, even if it has a slightly tacky interior is a steal compared to the idea of over-paying for what comes down to "perceived" luxury. I am not saying that the E350 interior is better than the CTS, I am just pointing out that IMHO the E350 interior certainly is not worth the additional $30,000 into German coffers just because their PR firms hype better than what GM can currently field.

If anyone thinks spending the extra $30,000 is a quality investment as opposed to simply refitting the interior as a good idea, I have to ask, "Really!?!" See here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtVnqZCndo to provide some perspective. Really!?! Not that I am endorsing Michael Vick or anything he does, just pointing out the obvious stupidity of the proposition, really. ;)

JBsZ06
08-21-07, 07:46 AM
especially Car & Driver, which I am sincerely convinced is being supplied with a constant supply of cocaine and hookers that results in their constant fawning on anything BMW)

Thanks for the laughs and I tend to agree..

As far as the CTS Vs. the mercedes E350 comparision...I tend to see these two as competitors and not the smaller C class.

I recently priced the two and with discounts the E350 AWD and the CTS AWD seem to me as competitors...except the CTS seems to be the better vehicle.

I like the E350 but don't see it as the better vehicle even though it can cost a few thousand more with current discounts from the dealer network to move them before the new model arrives.

avatards
08-21-07, 12:14 PM
Oh god, not this again.....

Without question, the 03-07 CTS is in the 3-series/C-class category. Why? Because thats what it was always compared to. The 03-07 CTS is allready the same size as the E60 5-series. Both are about 190" long and 71" wide. The only ad Ive seen so far that someone here posted showed the 08 CTS in pic with the 335i and the c350.

I still don't understand how anyone thinks the CTS has moved up in category.

The 03 CTS was a nice effort, but quite lacking. Poor interior, quirky exterior. A nice effort, but unrefined all-around. So the bigger size was kind of a trade off against these deficiencies.

The 08 is much more refined overall. Much better interior, beautiful exterior, imposing stance, more power. There's less justification now to look at its big size as a compensation for deficiencies in other areas. It moved upscale in those areas where it was lacking, and now it CAN be easily compared against equally refined vehicles of the same size.

It's not really there yet, but it has clearly departed from the "compact executives" field. The continued discussion on this issue is a sign that people no longer perceive the CTS as the direct competitor to the compact executives, and rightfully so. It is now somewhere in-between and it is a great value. But I guess it's just a matter of time when Cadillac stuffs the CTS with magnetic ride and other upscale features that will move it closer to where they want it to belong to.

avatards
08-21-07, 12:23 PM
96 fleetwood is right. The 5 series and the E class are compared to the STS. Both the 5 series and the E class offer a V8 as does the STS. Until Cadillac brings in a smaller/cheaper priced car...the CTS IS THE ENTRY LEVEL CAR from Cadillac. This issue was also touched upon in the Automobile Magazine issue in which they tested the C350, 330i, and the new CTS.


Well, the Mini and the 1-series are the entry level models from BMW, and the A3 is entry level for Audi, with the even smallish A1 coming soon. You don't want to stack them up against the CTS on the grounds that they're all "entry-level models". Because size does matter, in the otherwise comparable cars.

And the V8s are going to hell. The northstar pumps out just 20 hp more than the DI, and about the same goes for the BMW 550 vs 535. V8 is no more a prerequisite for a fast and well mannered car. Direct injection and turbo are the vogue. They mean more torque, better mileage and better hp per weight and hp per size.

silver bullet
08-21-07, 06:26 PM
In june 2004 Road &Track magazine compared the CTS ,with the BMW530i, Mercedes E320, Audi A6, Jaguar S-Type, Volvo S80 T6,and Chrysler 300, The CTS came out on top how about that for a new player.:thumbsup:

ChicagoCTS32
08-21-07, 08:38 PM
It's only a matter of time until Cadillac debuts the BLS as a new model in the US as their entry level model and the STS / DTS become one flagship model RWD/AWD. I've been saying it for months... and I'm saying it again. The CTS now competes with the E / 5 / A6. BLS will be C / 3 / A4. STS/DTS will be S / 7 / A8.

Neat :)

AznPrydeRegalRyde
08-22-07, 04:22 PM
I have no problems with the CTS moving up in category. My concern is that the magazines do not uniformly know this, and GM/Cadillac haven't been clear in letting the buying public know this.

Which leads to my next problem. The bls is fwd and very unsportsedan-like. If this is the soon to be 3-series competitor, I certainly hope its only temporary...

avatards
08-22-07, 04:45 PM
Current BLS is a total flop, it is unlikely it will be imported to US. Rumours say the new one will be based off a combination of the kappa (solstice/sky) and zeta (g8/impala) RWD platforms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Alpha_platform

RAB
08-22-07, 08:34 PM
Today I FINALLY got to see, touch and sit in an '08 CTS. Actually there were two of them, and they had just come off the transport truck at the dealership. One was Black Raven on Ebony, and the other was White Diamond on Ebony. Both were CTS4's (AWD); one had the 304 hp SIDI engine, the other had the standard SFI engine.
My immediate impression of the car? In a word.. stunning, both inside and out.
If I was out there shopping for a E Class or a C (which I'm not), or looking to buy a 5 Series or a 3 (again which I'm not), or any other import for that matter, I would immediately be impressed and totally swayed by the look and overall execution of this new Cadillac. It's that good -- and there's nothing else like it on the road at the moment. The German and certain Japanese marques have reason to be a bit nervous over this one.
I can't wait now for my '08 CTS to arrive. FYI: I realised today that the absence of option B20 (wood accent trim on steering wheel & shift knob) totally matters not. The Ebony interior looks terrific just with option B19. The all-leather steering wheel looks really sporty, and feels great.
JB - I suggest you drop all ideas of obtaining a Volvo S80, and get your order in quickly for an '08 CTS. You're going to love this car. And by the way, the P63 polished 18" wheels look great. I'm glad I've ordered them. :thumbsup:
Going back again tomorrow to look at the cars after they've been washed & shined up. Will take a few pics.
Cheers
Rab.

JBsZ06
08-22-07, 08:46 PM
Rab,

I appreciate and respect your opinion. I know you're right and can't wait to see one in person.

Sounds awesome!

JB

Kadonny
08-28-07, 09:26 AM
I can't wait to see a 08 in person. Did GM just start shipping them to the dealers this week or last?

AznPrydeRegalRyde
09-01-07, 12:45 PM
Current BLS is a total flop, it is unlikely it will be imported to US. Rumours say the new one will be based off a combination of the kappa (solstice/sky) and zeta (g8/impala) RWD platforms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Alpha_platformThats great news...
I'm seriously considering cancelling my order of the 08 CTS. It's just too much car for my tastes. The 335i coupe and 135i are giving me the itch.

JBsZ06
09-05-07, 01:19 PM
You can't go wrong with a BMW 335 or 135. Good luck in whatever you decide.

There is no question that the CTS is a larger vehicle than either of the two you mentioned.

If your looking for a small sport coupe the twin turbo BMW is a hell of a car.

Gotta love those twin turbos! still for a intermediate sized sports sedan the CTS with 300hp and AWD is exciting as well.