: Thinking of going 6 speed in the Fleetwood..



96Fleetwood
08-15-07, 08:12 AM
The SS forum is down, but some of you can give me some input here. My transmission is stock and original. It still shifts great and the fluid looks perfect. My other choice is to go with a CPT level 3. However.....

I don't drive the Fleetwood much and when I do, I wish it had a 6 speed.

There was only one other T56 Fleetwood done, and I have read up on that conversion and asked him questions to learn from his mistakes.

Now that BBHP is gone, are there any other kits for the b/d body cars to convert them to a T56?

I plan on using a Olds Bravada console and modifying my driver's seat to make the center console to work with the shifter placement.

Also, I currently have 3.73 gears. Will I have to upgrade to 4.10s with the T56?

Eventually the Fleetwood will get a 383 and might get some forced induction. A built 4L60e and a built T56 could handle the power... which one is more fun? ;)

Thanks,
Elias

jayoldschool
08-15-07, 11:45 AM
As a few around here know, my main summer driver is my 95 Impala SS, which I converted to the T56 with the BBHP pedal assembly. The current alternative is the "F2B" setup. It is a billet bracket that allows use of the F body pedals in a B or D body. You use the stock F body hydraulics.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/bigbuh/3-3.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/bigbuh/5-1.jpg

You can get by with the 3.73s, but 4.10s (what I have) would be a better choice. However, if you go with one of the 93 T56s, you can get different ratios that will work with your current gears. However, they are rated for lower torque (350 vs. 450, if memory serves correctly).

Here is the 93 trans: 2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/.80/.62

And here is the 94-97: 2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/.74/.50

The B body crossmember needs mods to work in the D body

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/bigbuh/3-2.jpg

If your motor is stock (or bolt-ons), you will be fine with a stock replacement clutch kit. This will include the LT1 disc, an LT4 pressure plate, the throw out bearing, the pilot bearing, and an install tool. If you are doing the 383, consider an upgrade.

If I was doing a Fleet, I would use the Buick Riviera console. They look like they are made for the car when properly fitted (the F2B kit comes with a bracket to move the shifter handle back to the right spot, too):

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/499000-499999/499994_12_full.jpg

Here's Bill's old Fleet:

http://www.uniquekind.net/caddypage/Images/FinalDays07.JPG


Let me know if you have more questions! I am actually heading over to the shop to work on my SS right now. The wiring harness got burned on one of the headers, so I will be splicing for a while...:want:

Jason.

96Fleetwood
08-15-07, 04:11 PM
Thanks for the response! I hope the SS forum comes back to life so I can ask about the F2B kit.

I like the Riviera console, but Bill told me it was tons of fabrication to get it to work.

The Bravada/Envoy/SS consoles are all pretty much plug and play. I was leaning to the Bravada and Envoy consoles because they have wood.

I am going to do some more research and see what it will take to get this done right. I am not worried about cost as much as I am in getting it perfect. :thumbsup:

jayoldschool
08-15-07, 04:53 PM
I like the Riviera console, but Bill told me it was tons of fabrication to get it to work

lol, if you can handle the T56 swap, prepping that Riv console will be easy. The Riv console is wrapped with vinyl, so you just flip it over, take out the staples, peel back the vinyl, then shape the console bottom to fit the floorpan. Then, fold the vinyl back and glue or staple it back down. It will look good. I think the way that it sweeps up to meet the dash makes it look great.

I just put in four hours on the wiring on my SS, and I have to go back tomorrow for more. I miss driving my 6 SSPEED

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/jayoldschool/6sspeed.jpg

Jason.

Red_October_7000
08-15-07, 05:27 PM
I wonder, is there a way to do one of these swaps without a console? I mean, I don't have one of these cars or anything (but I hope to some day), but I honestly hate consoles and I've figgured out I pretty much need a 6-passenger car. I mean with a long-handle shifter like in a truck. One of the reasons the Fleetwoods are atractive to me is the posibility of putting a stickshift in them.

96Fleetwood
08-15-07, 05:44 PM
You sure can, no console is needed:

Here is a T56 in a LT1 Roadmaster with no console:

http://a523.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/113/l_125e4ce9afd5bc91c418acf33c99e62a.jpg

caddycruiser
08-15-07, 07:30 PM
You know, even as a person who still hasn't mastered the skill of driving a stick (actually, have never done it...), but is SO tired of driving a slushbox around even with well re-done programming (thanks N0DIH), I too keep thinking I want to make mine a stick one day.

Part just for the pure performance improvement, and part also for that shock factor you get when people see your huge Cadillac and then see a 6-speed stick on the floor. Can be a bit much for daily use, but as a fun weekend/show/etc. car, you can't beat it.

Otherwise, just a custom console and center shifter for the automatic it is (hate the column lever, especially because my knee is always hitting it).

96Fleetwood
08-15-07, 07:45 PM
I totally agree, that is why I was thinking of going with the T56.

My 944 S2 and Passat 1.8T were both stick. I also drove the company Freightliner (10 speed manual), and my Dad's 2007 Z06 flawlessly. I really miss rowing gears!

90Brougham350
08-15-07, 09:39 PM
If you've got the time and the money, I think it could really turn out nicely. I encourage you to do this project, the unique-ness of it makes it worth doing alone. It would also make the Fleetwood even that much more fun to drive.

caddycruiser
08-15-07, 10:14 PM
Yeah, for how it's becoming your weekend, etc. fun car, I don't think swapping in a stick is even a question--just do it. A CPT auto is a fantastic choice as well, and if it were going to be more of a daily driver, I'd heartily recommend that.

But as you said, you just can't beat a stick if you're used to it (I'm not, and STILL want one), there's no better choice. It would really complete the package of your Fleetwood's current look and performance, even if it wouldn't be as easy to just jump in and cruise effortlessly anymore.

All depends on how you want to use the car and what you want.

Red_October_7000
08-15-07, 10:51 PM
You sure can, no console is needed:

Here is a T56 in a LT1 Roadmaster with no console:

http://a523.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/113/l_125e4ce9afd5bc91c418acf33c99e62a.jpg

Nice! It looks like, when I eventually do get one of these cars (because I WILL get one, sooner rather than later, hopefully!), that I'd be able to omit that angle bracket the lever is mounted on and have it come straight up, giving the middle pasenger some knee room. I prefer mushroom-head shifters like in large trucks (I learned to drive stick on two vehicles -my ladyfriend's 1988 Toyota MR2 (now mine, she has another) and a 1978 Ford F600 rack body with a 4-speed "rock crusher" (combined with a very low rear end, the result was a truck that screams at 70 but will pull your house down in low without thinking about it.) so I have strange preferences for transmissions -long throw versus short, mushroom-head shifters and hydraulic clutches (the latter being found in the MR2... the Ford has a 200-pound return spring that will stand you up if you're not wearing your safety belt!).

jayoldschool
08-15-07, 10:58 PM
The T56 is great for a daily driver. My mileage is much better than with the 4L60 (even with the 4.10s). 5th is perfect for around town, and 6th on the highway at 75 mph is just under 2000 rpm. The LT1 produces lots of torque, so you don't have to shift much...

96Fleetwood
08-15-07, 10:59 PM
Thanks for all the input. I am definately going to do this. I should be ready to go by next Spring :thumbsup:

Cadillacboy
08-16-07, 11:49 AM
Good luck with your project !

FASSTWOOD
08-17-07, 01:03 AM
Elias, I say go for it. But it would look so much nicer with the riviera console... The big thing that kept me from doing the riv console was having to cut the glove box other that that it wasn't too bad when we did my buddy's car...

I wonder what Bill's old car is doin?

96Fleetwood
08-17-07, 07:35 AM
I talked to Bill at St. Louis and he told me the guy that bought his Fleetwood wrecked it. It is now fixed and the new owner uses it as a daily driver.

I think I might pick up a Riviera or Envoy center console and start molding it from now.

96Fleetwood
08-22-07, 08:43 AM
Well... a buddy and I crunched some numbers yesterday and for almost the same price, I can beef up my LT1, add forced induction, a CPT level 3, and put a floor shift console from a Bravada.

Decisions, Decisions!

caddycruiser
08-22-07, 10:14 AM
Well... a buddy and I crunched some numbers yesterday and for almost the same price, I can beef up my LT1, add forced induction, a CPT level 3, and put a floor shift console from a Bravada.

Decisions, Decisions!

Good, but forced induction...no...just more issues present and potential than it's worth, even with the extra fun power at TIMES. I guess things like Eddie's Turbo debacle that continues to be a mess, and others, have really sowered me on the whole supercharged/turbocharged fiasco. I guess if done 100% fully and correctly, you're fine, but still questionable.

I still say as many changes as possible without a sc/turbo, then a 6-speed.

jayoldschool
08-22-07, 11:15 AM
Even with a stock LT1, you will see increased performance with the T56. Not to mention, you will enjoy it every day. Best mod I have ever done, on any of my cars.