: Do both rear tires spin on a '93 fleetwood brougham?



megatron
07-28-07, 04:43 PM
I hope this question doesn't seem to stupid guys,but do both rear wheels get power to them on a '93 fleetwood brougham? What I mean is I've seen some "rear wheel drive" cars where only one rear tire gets power and then the other ones spins with that one(a "one wheel peel"). I've heard these cars had posi rear ends and that power was delivered to both rear tires not just one.

Jonas McFeely
07-28-07, 04:48 PM
Find a parking lot, lightly hold the brake with your left foot and press the gas with your right. When the smoke clears, you'll know...

caddycruiser
07-29-07, 08:17 AM
NO, they do not. Only the Buicks and Chevys using this platform during the same years had an option of a Positraction/Locking Rear Differential, which is what causes both wheels to lock together and give traction simultaneously.

The Fleetwoods, in contrary, were instead given an option diff. with power only going to the one rear wheel, and then an electronic traction control system on top of it to kill the throttle if it thinks it's slipping.

Of course, many people have re-done the rear to change the gear ratios and/or add a Locking Rear Diff, but it was never a factory item.

coleman
07-29-07, 08:26 AM
Yes, power is delivered to both wheels. That's the same with every 2wd car I can think of. The differential serves to distribute power to both wheels while allowing different wheel speeds. The allowance for different wheel speeds is the problem when you start slipping; one wheel can now spin much faster then the other.

No, you do not have a limited slip differential from the factory. You have electronic traction control which reduces throttle angle when it detects a slip condition at the reluctor rings located on each wheel hub.
__________________
1981 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Turbo - LS1/T56
1993 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham - 383 Vortec/4L60
1993 Mazda Protege LX - BP-ZE/G25M-R
1994 Mazda Protege DX - B8-ME/F25M-R

z06bigbird
07-29-07, 01:01 PM
3 diff members; 3 diff answers.

I love it.

Jonas McFeely
07-29-07, 02:17 PM
3 diff members; 3 diff answers.

I love it.

A delicious pun.

cadydaddy
07-29-07, 08:46 PM
NO, they do not. Only the Buicks and Chevys using this platform during the same years had an option of a Positraction/Locking Rear Differential, which is what causes both wheels to lock together and give traction simultaneously.

The Fleetwoods, in contrary, were instead given an option diff. with power only going to the one rear wheel, and then an electronic traction control system on top of it to kill the throttle if it thinks it's slipping.

Of course, many people have re-done the rear to change the gear ratios and/or add a Locking Rear Diff, but it was never a factory item.

But you can turn the t/c off at least.

caddycruiser
07-29-07, 10:05 PM
But you can turn the t/c off at least.

Yes, true, and I never meant to imply otherwise.

For all intensive purposes, how I described these cars as a 1-wheel driver is completely accurate, for the main power is transferred right through the one side. Hence, mine and coleman's responses are largely the same.

He just gave more of an impression that power is really transferred to both rear wheels when, in all reality, if ever doing something like a burnout, it'll be a 1-wheel smoker. That's just how it works, and a much better way to explain an open differential to people.

Jonas McFeely
07-29-07, 10:37 PM
For all intensive purposes,

Not calling you out, because i just actually learned it myself. Its "intents and purposes". I thought it was intensive purposes my whole life and like a week ago i saw what it was, and was like "oh, that makes sense". Damn English language. When you hear a saying so much, you never really think how its spelled or exactly what it means or how its said.

coleman
07-29-07, 10:40 PM
For all intensive purposes, how I described these cars as a 1-wheel driver is completely accurate, for the main power is transferred right through the one side. Hence, mine and coleman's responses are largely the same.Not really - power is evenly distributed to both sides in an open differential at all times. This includes situations where one wheel is spinning and another is stationary. When the resistance of the spinning wheel doesn't exceed the static friction of the opposing side you get wheel spin with no movement of the vehicle. You still have power evenly distributed to both sides because it must. Newton's 2nd says open differential is always 2wd and power must be evenly distributed according to the necessary force balances. His words exactly, he was a car dude and I couldn't possibly make that up.

It's actually the limited slip car that's nearly one wheel drive. You have a device that biases the forces in a way that reduces available power to the slipping wheel. A locker or spool can truly behave as a one wheel drive vehicle, example would be one tire on pavement and the other dangling in the air with nothing to grab on. You'll get full drivetrain power through the tire that grabs, even if it is only one wheel. This is why off-roaders often use true lockers for their differentials.

I know I know, who cares as long as we all get the point that a '93 is gonna slip and slide before it does a nice burnout. :thepan:

cadydaddy
07-30-07, 01:26 AM
Not calling you out, because i just actually learned it myself. Its "intents and purposes". I thought it was intensive purposes my whole life and like a week ago i saw what it was, and was like "oh, that makes sense". Damn English language. When you hear a saying so much, you never really think how its spelled or exactly what it means or how its said.

Yeah, It's kind of like me, I used to think it was "A stigmatism" when it was "astigmatism" the whole time. lmao.

N0DIH
07-30-07, 07:20 AM
Adding a posi (I am a fan of the Eaton myself....cost, rebuildability, adjustability, etc) is a wonderful thing. The posi allows the car to be accelerated with the inside tire, making the car able to accelerate faster, as opposed to the open differential where the power goes to the tire moving the fastest (also the tire that is gonna spin first), so the car has the capability of being fast, all things being the same (traction, gearing, road course, etc).

Coleman is exactly correct. If traction on both tires is 100% the same, then you will get exactly 50% of the power delivered to each wheel, therefore the appearance of posi. But there are SOOO many forces at work, like the axle windup, the rotation of the driveshaft and action on the rear axle and back into the controls, causing the axle housing to want to spin opposite the driveshaft (every action requires and equal and opposite reaction), which promotes wheelspin on the right rear tire on a rear wheel drive car. Cars without rear sway bar it is even worse.

Get a posi! It is GOOD money WELL spent!! You will NOT regret it one bit! I have a posi in mine right now and I love it, the traction control is a joke in comparison. I have used both, so far only in wet weather, but I can accelerate SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much faster now in wet than I ever could with the TC active and the open (one wheeled wonder) rear end. And the car is just plain safer in inclement weather. No more accelerating so slow you think someone is about to hit you because you pulled out and the car throttled you back so far you can't hardly move.

Yeah, get one, you will LOVE your car afterwards...

megatron
07-30-07, 08:18 PM
NODIH where can I find one of these rear ends and whats the ballpark price to have one of these installed? thanks

jayoldschool
07-30-07, 08:50 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EATON-POSI-CHEVY-GM-8-5-8-6-10-BOLT-30-SPLINE-19559-1_W0QQitemZ120111083949QQihZ002QQcategoryZ33731QQr dZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Also, check gearsareus.com - that is where I got my 4.10 gears for my Impala SS. I was very happy with their service, and the gears (Motive) are great.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-30-07, 11:06 PM
So they never had a limited slip differential with the V4P? Wow, you learn something new every day.

N0DIH
07-31-07, 01:45 PM
The 9.5" is fairly easy find on car-part.com, as for install, it isn't too hard, takes some work, that rear is HEAVY, it is durable, but it will add around 100 lbs to the back of the car.

Yup, not one factory V4P got RPO G80 (posi). I guess GM thought traction control was good enough....

Did you put 4.10s in a RWD Cad? Wondering how they are. I am pondering 3.90's...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-31-07, 02:22 PM
It seems wierd to me that GM never put the G80 rear end in the Fleetwoods but did all the B bodies. You'd think they'd just put them in all of them to cut down on costs, which GM was infamous for doing on those B/D cars.

jayoldschool
07-31-07, 03:10 PM
It seems wierd to me that GM never put the G80 rear end in the Fleetwoods but did all the B bodies. You'd think they'd just put them in all of them to cut down on costs, which GM was infamous for doing on those B/D cars.

That's not true. Most B bodies didn't get G80. It was only standard on the Impala SS. It is even optional on the 9C1 police package. My old 9C1 didn't have G80.

NODIH, are you asking me about the 4.10s? I wasn't sure. My 4.10s are in my 95 Impala SS, but I also put in a manual T56 that has a very deep double OD. 6th is .5, so the engine only turns around 2000 rpm at 75 mph. First through fourth are lots of fun with the 4.10s, however! The biggest gears I would suggest if staying with the 4L60E would be 3.73s. I actually don't think there is a 3.90 available for our rears...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-31-07, 03:44 PM
That's not true. Most B bodies didn't get G80. It was only standard on the Impala SS. It is even optional on the 9C1 police package. My old 9C1 didn't have G80.

True, the G80 wasn't standard on any of the others except the Impala SS, but atleast it was optional on all of the others.

N0DIH
07-31-07, 09:51 PM
Was the G80 (note that it is an Auburn diff too) std in the Impala? I sure like it. Not sure what I have, Eaton or Auburn. I have a Eaton that will go in my Cad soon, but the one in my car is ??. But it is tight differential, so whichever it is, it is nice.

I would love to do a T56 in my Fleetwood, but $$. Yup, they make Summit 3.90's (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D741003&N=700+115&autoview=sku) and Richmond 3.90's (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RMG%2D4900341&N=700+115&autoview=sku). I look at I have 2000 rpm cruise rpms with 3.08's @ 75 mph. 2200 with 3.42's, 2350 for 3.73's and 2500 for 3.90's. So being I don't spend a terrible amount of time at 75, a lot at 35-65, so I just would like to see how much better it would do. I really like the 3.42's, and the 93 V4P got 3.73's. So 3.90's shouldn't be a far stretch at all. Just an extra 100-125 rpm @ 75...