: Question about Dexcool for the Northstar 4.6



rndthm
07-28-07, 11:35 AM
I have a 2002 dts 4.6 northstar and I am going to be scheduling to have the dexcool changed in the next week or two. Before I do i need to know the best prefered method? I have called about 5 to 6 cadillac dealerships on how they mix the dexcool and have gotten 3 different responces. some of them said they mix it with tapp water (which I believe should be the wrong way), a couple more said they mix with distilled water and a few more said they get a premix already mixed from gm.... which way would be the prefered method here???

zonie77
07-28-07, 01:09 PM
Tap water is never recommended. The 50/50 or distilled water are fine.

If you are interested it is a fairly easy job to do yourself.

AJxtcman
07-28-07, 04:27 PM
Have your ever seen a source for large amount of distilled water a dealership?

Submariner409
07-28-07, 08:30 PM
:confused: AJ....Sure: the corner supermarket, for .89 a gallon, and the dealership charges you $3.89 a gallon. The local Ford parts runner buys the stuff by the case at our local Acme. "You can s**t the fans, but you can't s**t the players" (Dexter Manley, Washington Redskins)
rndthm, DIY with help from your factory service manual. A simple job, and you'll learn a lot.

AJxtcman
07-28-07, 08:51 PM
:confused: AJ....Sure: the corner supermarket, for .89 a gallon, and the dealership charges you $3.89 a gallon. The local Ford parts runner buys the stuff by the case at our local Acme. "You can s**t the fans, but you can't s**t the players" (Dexter Manley, Washington Redskins)
rndthm, DIY with help from your factory service manual. A simple job, and you'll learn a lot.

I have never seen clean drinkable water at a dealer that I used to fill a system.
I have always used to dirty crap out of the hose.
I know that I shouldn't, but that is the way it is done.

dkozloski
07-28-07, 09:01 PM
Water from a municipal water system these days is going to have a relatively high Ph adjusted to keep from leaching lead from home soldered plumbing systems. Other than that there won't be much else that matters.

AJxtcman
07-28-07, 09:20 PM
Water from a municipal water system these days is going to have a relatively high Ph adjusted to keep from leaching lead from home soldered plumbing systems. Other than that there won't be much else that matters.

If you drink the water at the dealer ship you will go home.
It is soooooo bad every shop has it own bottled water and they also supply it in the waiting area.
If we had good air we could use the snow, but it is soooooo dirty also.
This state sucks. I need to get back to WA or Alaska.

dkozloski
07-28-07, 09:40 PM
Anchorage, Alaska has the highest quality rated public water system in the U.S. The water in Fairbanks is hard as hell.

codewize
07-28-07, 11:25 PM
50/50 with distilled water. I would never use tap water in a coolant system. Way to many minerals.

The premix is fine also but you're paying more money for half the coolant. Distilled water here is $ .58 in Wal-Mart

And it is a pretty easy do-it-yourself job.

rndthm
07-29-07, 12:59 PM
what type of water is it in the premix that they get from gm ?

z06bigbird
07-29-07, 01:34 PM
what type of water is it in the premix that they get from gm ?

Great question, but I am not sure we can locate the person who can give us the real answer.

AJxtcman
07-29-07, 01:43 PM
Dex cool premix at a dealer. I have never seen this at a dealer or in the Chemical catalog. I will need to take a closer look, but I think it is not available from GM.

Ranger
07-30-07, 12:18 AM
The Guru once told me that the factory uses ionized water at the factory when I asked.

AJxtcman
07-30-07, 06:52 AM
osmosis?

rndthm
07-30-07, 10:34 AM
I stopped by one of the dealerships this morning to look at thier bottle of premix. It said ac delco and dexcool on it but after reading the back of it!!! This is not a premix.... you are supposed to mix it with water from what I read on the directions on it and on the back the directions said to mix it with tapp water. Why would gm put in the directions to use tapp water???

jadcock
07-30-07, 10:34 AM
With the premix, you're obviously paying almost double for your coolant mixture. Prices around here are about $7/gal for the premix and $8/gal for full strength. Add $1/gal for distilled water and for $9, if you mix it yourself, you have 2 gallons of 50/50, vs. $7/gal if you buy it premade.

I just use an extra 1 gallon plastic pitcher and mix it that way (pouring back and forth a few times). It may not be totally dissolved the way the factory might do it, but by the time it's been run through the engine a few cycles, it's been mixed thoroughly enough for my liking.

Ranger
07-30-07, 09:28 PM
osmosis?
Maybe that was it, reverse osmosis water or deionized or something like that. Now I'm confused. :bonkers:

Zorb750
08-02-07, 03:16 AM
Hey if you want easy clean and cheap water, just tap the condensate line from an air conditioner. The water condendes out of the air, which is the second half of distillation (The first half being forcing it into the air with heat). As long as your condensate line and AC coils and capture container are clean, there won't be any minerals at all. The water out of a dehumidifier would work too. It'd be damn expensive distilled water though, as dehumidifiers usually consume a few hundred watts of electricity, but hey if you're already using one... Might as well...

jadcock
08-02-07, 08:30 AM
That's a great point above. Even from just an environmental standpoint. It's amazing how much humidity an air conditioner removes (especially a home HVAC). Ours removes about 2 gallons a day out of the (humid North Carolina) air. I keep a 5 gallon pail under the condensate line and use that water to water the flower beds in the yard.

codewize
08-02-07, 01:12 PM
Distilled water is $ .58 a gallon. Why would you bother?


Hey if you want easy clean and cheap water, just tap the condensate line from an air conditioner. The water condendes out of the air, which is the second half of distillation (The first half being forcing it into the air with heat). As long as your condensate line and AC coils and capture container are clean, there won't be any minerals at all. The water out of a dehumidifier would work too. It'd be damn expensive distilled water though, as dehumidifiers usually consume a few hundred watts of electricity, but hey if you're already using one... Might as well...

EDIT: Ohhh I see you quantified the cost here. got it.

ral1960
08-02-07, 02:34 PM
The condensation off your dehumifier or air conditioner will have plenty of bacteria and dust from your house. I wouldn't put it in your car.

Deionized water was what we used in high school chemistry lab for final rinsing. In college, we moved up to distilled after cleaning with potassium permanganate solution.

Zorb750
08-02-07, 02:49 PM
Shouldn't have much bacteria, doesn't set long enough. Dust... Well, I don't know about you, but I have an electronic ionizing air cleaner on my furnace, it's on the intake side, the Air Conditioner coils are on the outlet side. Should be clean. My ducts haven't needed cleaning in years. Either way, it was just an observation, not a "you should do this", you know. As far as the dehumidifier goes, as long as the coils are clean...

I mean mine builds up water so fast if I run it on high that when I empty the two gallon tray, the water's much colder than tap water. It's why I run a hose off of it now, right to the drain. Emptying every hour is dumb.

Accutim
08-11-07, 09:53 PM
My local garage mechanic recommends 100% AF rather than 50/50.
Anyone heard that before, or have any comments?

I assumed we mix it because straight antifreeze would cause issues, but maybe it is just a cost matter, I sure don't know.

Zorb750
08-12-07, 04:25 AM
My local garage mechanic recommends 100% AF rather than 50/50.
Anyone heard that before, or have any comments?

I assumed we mix it because straight antifreeze would cause issues, but maybe it is just a cost matter, I sure don't know.

Do not do that. Pule coolant takes a lot more power to pump and will decrease your mileage. It also carries heat less efficiently, resulting in higher temperature.

A cost matter? $20 more is a cost matter? Is this a Cadillac or a moped?

Accutim
08-12-07, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the information.
:)

Ranger
08-12-07, 11:43 AM
My local garage mechanic recommends 100% AF rather than 50/50.
Anyone heard that before, or have any comments?

I assumed we mix it because straight antifreeze would cause issues, but maybe it is just a cost matter, I sure don't know.

:tisk: Find another mechanic.

AJxtcman
08-12-07, 12:16 PM
We are talking Dex-Cool and it has a chart on the back that shows 100%.......:rant2:
I would have no problem adding too much Dex-cool by ratio. If you live in Florida and you never see 0° you should only set it to what?
See my point?
If the jug says 100% is safe on it, I would say it is.
Is it over kill? (yes)
Is it safe? (yes)
Is it cheaper? (no)

jh225
08-12-07, 12:45 PM
I have never seen clean drinkable water at a dealer that I used to fill a system.
I have always used to dirty crap out of the hose.
I know that I shouldn't, but that is the way it is done.

Exactly.

EVERY shop I have ever been in has used hose/tap water. Do you guys really think in this day and age that the stuff in tap water will harm a radiator or engine internals? If you do, I have some swamp land to sell you.

Can someone explain to me what they THINK tap water will do?

codewize
08-12-07, 02:39 PM
Additionally pure coolant freezes sooner than plain water, so I'm told. Mixing it also increases the boiling point.


My local garage mechanic recommends 100% AF rather than 50/50.
Anyone heard that before, or have any comments?

I assumed we mix it because straight antifreeze would cause issues, but maybe it is just a cost matter, I sure don't know.

codewize
08-12-07, 02:43 PM
Tap water is filled with minerals. Some naturally occurring and some intentionally added for health. I have well water with tons of calcium in it.

Minerals will clog the hell out of a radiator and with the N* will most likely lead to very premature HG failure. The minerals cling to the metals ion the system and produce build up.

This is just the type of thing that promotes HG failure. Distilled water is the only thing you should put in a coolant system, period. It's less than $. 60 per gallon, whats the big deal here?


Exactly.

EVERY shop I have ever been in has used hose/tap water. Do you guys really think in this day and age that the stuff in tap water will harm a radiator or engine internals? If you do, I have some swamp land to sell you.

Can someone explain to me what they THINK tap water will do?

jh225
08-12-07, 11:03 PM
Minerals will clog the hell out of a radiator and with the N* will most likely lead to very premature HG failure. The minerals cling to the metals ion the system and produce build up.

This is just the type of thing that promotes HG failure.

Sorry, but I just don't buy into that. In theory you are correct, but I am willing to bet that if you call 100 Cadillac dealers, 99 will say they mix dexcool with slop sink tap water.

These engines have been in service for 15 years and who knows how many were produced. How many besides the ones you read about on the internet have blown HG? I would venture to say VERY few and how many of the total number produced have used tap water throughout the years? Most of them for sure.

Using distilled is not a problem IF you have it on hand when you do the service.

jadcock
08-13-07, 09:56 AM
Sorry, but I just don't buy into that. In theory you are correct, but I am willing to bet that if you call 100 Cadillac dealers, 99 will say they mix dexcool with slop sink tap water.

There are a lot of dealers who do a lot of things, stuff which sometimes agrees with GM's guidance and sometimes doesn't.

I've always used only distilled water, and I only service it myself. I always have it on-hand, so that's not an issue. I would imagine that a dealer won't always have it on hand -- or least maintaining that inventory would be more difficult than me checking my cabinet and seeing if I had any or not.

So I totally understand why a dealer would use tap water. And that's why I service my cooling system myself. The water available to any given person in the country is highly variable. Some folks have private wells. Some folks have very good municipal water. Some folks have a local community well system (like me). It's always best to give a consistent recommendation -- and distilled water is a consistent recommendation. It's readily available to everyone and is cheap.

I actually don't keep separate jugs of water/coolant. I pre-mix in my garage. When I buy a gallon of coolant, I also buy a gallon of distilled water, and use a 3rd jug I have on-hand for the task to get exactly 50/50. So I end up with two gallons of 50/50 that I know is mixed properly, and is available all the time, for drains, for top-offs, whatever.

clarkz71
08-19-07, 11:54 AM
I do the same thing.

JimHare
08-19-07, 12:13 PM
There are so many variables to take in to effect when you (or a dealer) use tap water for coolant mix - you may never know whats in the tap water that COULD be harmful - I know I'd never use the crap coming out of my tap here for coolant - it's so full of rust, sediment and other junk it turns the house siding orange if it gets sprayed on it. We have two filters, a conditioner and reverse osmosis and it's still crappy. I only drink it mixed with coffee grounds and passed through a filter.. :)

With distilled water from the local grocery store, at about .60 cents a gallon, what's the big deal? If you're not prepared to be SURE of what's going into your radiator, especially with an aluminum engined car, you run some risks.

Hell, I don't even like WASHING my cars with the hose, much less putting it IN the car.