: The Midsize 2dr Coupe is Dead



carzzy
07-20-07, 01:09 PM
I just heard that the Monte Carlo will not be available for 2008. I think that is a shame considering that the 2007 Monte Carlo was virtually the last midsize 2dr Coupe being offered by an American manufacturer. Now there will be none!
I am in my early 50's and I remember well about the Muscle Car era of the mid 60's and early 70's.Take GM alone, do you remember cars such as the Pontiac GTO, SS 396 Chevelles, Olds 442's, and Buick Grand Sports? Do you also remember the Personal Luxury Coupes that were popular even before and after that era. Cars such as the original Olds Starfire and Toronado, Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick Riviera, Cadillac Eldorado and the Chevrolet Monte Carlo? Well, they are all gone today!. Those were cars that had style, luxury and performance. The Muscle Cars and the Personal Luxury Cars all had one thing in common.... they all had 2 doors and only 2 doors!. These were cars that car enthusiasts wanted then and today. Today, they are highly sought out by collectors. Just go to any car show and you will see that the vast majority of collector cars are 2 dr Coupes, Hardtops or Convertibles.
I think it's rather sad that that this era is gone and everything built that has any substance to it, has to have 4 doors.

SilverCoupe
07-20-07, 01:47 PM
Hello there, new here. but to comment, that is surprising to hear that the Monte Carlo is or may be going away, as a coupe anyhow. I see alot of Monte's each day on the freeway's here in Minnesota, they sell well. I sappose the Impala will keep going, but its a sedan and a bit smaller as well.
Perhaps the market is changing and will only see smaller cars now. I will only drive the bigger cars, mostly RWD, but like my new FWD caddy, lots of room...Heck I am still adjusting to the change to all the FWD cars out there, Funny how the Mone Carlo is RWD in NASCAR, but can sell the public a FWD? what gives.

Highway Star
07-20-07, 01:54 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean. Seems like they're something of a bygone era. Why in the heck does the new Dodge Charger have 4-doors? :bigroll:

I could kick myself for trading our '72 Nova SS some years ago. Also had a '87 Monte Carlo SS. Although it's probably considered a full size, my favorite car of all times was a 1966 Pontiac Grand Prix (based on Catalina chassis). Had one, wish l had kept it. It had a nice GTO vibe to it.

dkozloski
07-20-07, 01:56 PM
Hello there, new here. but to comment, that is surprising to hear that the Monte Carlo is or may be going away, as a coupe anyhow. I see alot of Monte's each day on the freeway's here in Minnesota, they sell well. I sappose the Impala will keep going, but its a sedan and a bit smaller as well.
Perhaps the market is changing and will only see smaller cars now. I will only drive the bigger cars, mostly RWD, but like my new FWD caddy, lots of room...Heck I am still adjusting to the change to all the FWD cars out there, Funny how the Mone Carlo is RWD in NASCAR, but can sell the public a FWD? what gives.

The sheet iron is everything. The hoi poloi no longer cares what's underneath. The character of the cars has been so carefully disguised that FWD vs. RWD no longer matters.

carzzy
07-20-07, 02:40 PM
The sheet iron is everything. The hoi poloi no longer cares what's underneath. The character of the cars has been so carefully disguised that FWD vs. RWD no longer matters.

Exactly

carzzy
07-20-07, 02:48 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean. Seems like they're something of a bygone era. Why in the heck does the new Dodge Charger have 4-doors? :bigroll:

I could kick myself for trading our '72 Nova SS some years ago. Also had a '87 Monte Carlo SS. Although it's probably considered a full size, my favorite car of all times was a 1966 Pontiac Grand Prix (based on Catalina chassis). Had one, wish l had kept it. It had a nice GTO vibe to it.

I agree a 4 door Charger!!! It seems US auto manufacturers are more interested in reviving the name than the car.

Benzilla
07-20-07, 03:28 PM
:emocide:

Playdrv4me
07-20-07, 04:02 PM
Yea this death of coupes has been posted here many times before... and the response from the big three is always the same thing... that the market for 2 door coupes is no longer viable. Well I say thats BS... The problem is when you make your ONLY two door coupe variants off of the cheapest, most fleet labeled vehicles in your lineup, of COURSE people wont want them!

Just look at Mercedes and BMW... Theyve had nothing but success with the 645/650i, the CLK, and the CL Series. Those cars are ALL mid and full size two door big bruiser coupes... the very kind of coupes that detroit killed long ago leaving us the abysmal coupes weve had for the last several years.

The last great american coupes were the Mark VIII/Eldorado duo, but even the Thunderbird the Mark was based on languished for along time as well.

carzzy
07-20-07, 05:02 PM
Yea this death of coupes has been posted here many times before... and the response from the big three is always the same thing... that the market for 2 door coupes is no longer viable. Well I say thats BS... The problem is when you make your ONLY two door coupe variants off of the cheapest, most fleet labeled vehicles in your lineup, of COURSE people wont want them!

Just look at Mercedes and BMW... Theyve had nothing but success with the 645/650i, the CLK, and the CL Series. Those cars are ALL mid and full size two door big bruiser coupes... the very kind of coupes that detroit killed long ago leaving us the abysmal coupes weve had for the last several years.

The last great american coupes were the Mark VIII/Eldorado duo, but even the Thunderbird the Mark was based on languished for along time as well.

The problem with the big 3 is that they are no longer innovators! I'm especially disappointed with GM! Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell, John De Lorean, Ed Cole and many others must be rolling in their graves today!

malcolm
07-20-07, 06:04 PM
When I was a young driver nobody would be caught dead in a 4 door. We all wanted and drove coupes, without the post I might add. I had several Chevelle Malibus, Cutlass Supreems, what a monster seller for Olds, can't believe still that they killed the brand. My first and all time favorite Caddy an 89 Eldorado. I am holding out hope that the Camaro concept car will be actually built but Caddy really should bring back the Eldorado. How about a Coupe DeVille?

Wheelman322
07-20-07, 06:05 PM
My first car was an 88 Mark VII LSC and i've owned several Eldo's and I loved all of them. I think GM would make a triumphant comeback if they would produce a RWD coupe on the Zeta platform and labeled it under the old "Buick Regal/Olds Cutless" moniker. Maybe throw an LS4 in as an option.

Jesda
07-20-07, 06:30 PM
Coupes are convertibles waiting to happen.

AlBundy
07-20-07, 07:29 PM
Coupes are grown up rosters.

c5 rv
07-20-07, 10:08 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing the CTS coupe (CTC?) this fall and may get an 09 or 10. As much as coupes look cool, they have fallen from favor for a number of practical reasons:

- Parents used to buy coupes for the safety of their kids - they didn't have rear doors to open However, rear lock-outs solved that problem. Plus, putting a child in a booster seat / car seat in the back of a coupe is a royal pain.

- No adult wants to ride in the back of a coupe - except with the right person. But, no one likes getting in and out. (Uh, I'd better stop at that.)

- The long doors are a pain in a garage or parking lot. Plus, just reaching the door handle of a fully opened coupe door from the driver's seat can be a long stretch.

That said, I think there will be a resurgent market for coupes among the growing population of childless adults and adults with grown children. For personal transportation, many folks' rear seats only see stuff, not people. I think folks will again be attracted to the looks, and won't consider buying only a 2-seat car.

Benzilla
07-20-07, 11:49 PM
Those are all valid points... but above all, coupes are just cooler!

Even the names sound better with 2 doors. 'Coupe DeVille' > 'Sedan DeVille' They just have more of a youthful feel; a cooler feel than the same car with four doors. And I'd really think since Cadillac is trying to appeal to a younger demographic, they'd want something moody, romantic, and exclusive - a Personal luxury coupe.

I'd kill for a new two door DTS. Think how sexy that profile would look with one long door and no post!

carzzy
07-21-07, 01:41 AM
And...when you think they might have it right....
I remember getting excited back in 2003 about the return of the GTO. Finally, I thought... a 2 door LS1 V8, RWD, midsize Coupe with IRS and a manual transmission...perfect! Well....we got that..but...the car looked like a bloated '98 Cavalier!! You don't remake an American icon from an existing Australian GM car, slap a split grille and badges on it and call it a GTO. If the car was styled from scratch showing some continuity from past GTO's....I think it would have been a hit!
I drove an '05 400HP LS2 6 speed and the car was quite impressive to drive but I just couldn't get over it's looks! Sort of like having an ugly woman who is great in the sack... but... you wouldn't want to marry her!

77CDV
07-21-07, 01:56 AM
Sometime I think Detroit's current thinking is, if we don't build them, may be the customers won't be so uncooperative as to want them. For the record, I never cared for the current Monte, but the first and second gen cars were really striking, truly a poor man's Eldorado.

c5 rv
07-21-07, 07:09 AM
Honda has offered an Accord coupe for a long time. Does anyone know how it sells compared to the sedan? How about the Camry Solara which has been around for a shorter time?

ejguillot
07-21-07, 08:08 AM
If coupe sales are so dead, why is Nissan introducing the Altima Coupe for the 2008 model year?

GM needs to redo the Monte Carlo and bring it back.

lawfive
07-21-07, 10:52 AM
Challenger coupe coming. CTS-V coupe coming (we hear). Those are the two I'm focused on.

For other people: Ford Mustang here. Chevy Camaro coming.

carzzy
07-21-07, 11:46 AM
Challenger coupe coming. CTS-V coupe coming (we hear). Those are the two I'm focused on.

For other people: Ford Mustang here. Chevy Camaro coming.

True...but none you mentioned are Mid Size.

lawfive
07-21-07, 02:54 PM
Yeah, well, I don't even know what that means anymore. Some of the older cars you mentioned in your first post are huge compared to what are passed off as mid-sized / intermediate cars today. Are we defining mid-sized by wheelbase? Overall length? Interior room?

carzzy
07-21-07, 05:22 PM
Yeah, well, I don't even know what that means anymore. Some of the older cars you mentioned in your first post are huge compared to what are passed off as mid-sized / intermediate cars today. Are we defining mid-sized by wheelbase? Overall length? Interior room?

I hear ya...mid size of 40 years ago are larger than the full size of today. Mid Size would be around 195 inches in length. My '02 Eldorado was classified as "Mid Size" on the window sticker and that is 200 inches long.

lawfive
07-21-07, 05:29 PM
If Caddy makes a powerful enough CTS-V coupe, that's what I think I'll wind up with. I don't believe I have the, uh, youth to pull off driving a Challenger. Plus, I are a executive.

It's just frustrating to sit here in 2007, not knowing what exactly is coming in 2008. And if Caddy releases a CTS-V sedan in 2008 that seems sweet, the odds are I'll be sitting around then wondering if a coupe version is coming.

You know why coupes are dying out in the US? Car seats and belt laws. I've had four door cars ever since my first kid was born. Back in the day it didn't matter because the big 'uns climbed into the back and sat there or (after 1964) belted themselves in; the little ones were typically held by Mom in the front seat.

carzzy
07-21-07, 05:43 PM
If Caddy makes a powerful enough CTS-V coupe, that's what I think I'll wind up with. I don't believe I have the, uh, youth to pull off driving a Challenger. Plus, I are a executive.

It's just frustrating to sit here in 2007, not knowing what exactly is coming in 2008. And if Caddy releases a CTS-V sedan in 2008 that seems sweet, the odds are I'll be sitting around then wondering if a coupe version is coming.

You know why coupes are dying out in the US? Car seats and belt laws. I've had four door cars ever since my first kid was born. Back in the day it didn't matter because the big 'uns climbed into the back and sat there or (after 1964) belted themselves in; the little ones were typically held by Mom in the front seat.

A CTS-V Coupe would be the way to go and IMHO is the only way they should make them. I heard that CTS-V would not be available till 2009 and I did hear that it was going to be a Coupe!:bouncy:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-22-07, 05:01 PM
While I do completely agree that the death of the large and midsized coupe (well...most coupes in general) is a tragedy, the latest Montes were nothing to lust over. Bland styling inside and out, mediocre powertrains (well, except for the S/C 3800, 3.9L and 5.3L V8), the fact it was FWD, and the unclear model image. Nobody really knew what it was, was it a muscle car? Luxury coupe? Sports car? None of the above....it was the poor man's Eldorado, which is really a combination of all of the above, with really being none of the above. The last M/C that really did anything for me was the (and you'll think I'm crazy for saying this) was the 99 with that 3.8L V6. Sure, it wasn't nearly as quick as the supercharged ones that came a few years later, or the V8 ones of the last two years, but I thought that styling looked a lot better...cleaner lines, smaller look. The newer one looks too big IMO, too much like those tacky 1973-77 models, but that was intended, and for god knows what reason. The best move if they were gonna recreate a classic model would have been the 70-72 models...those were GORGEOUS, looked like a luxury coupe, just not as pompous as the others from that era.

I want a big coupe, really I do. I love the idea of having lots of room in the front, good space in the rear and two long doors. The 89-93 Coupe deVille and Fleetwood Coupe is a perfect example of this. The front seat has as much legroom as the sedan, and the rear has just a bit less, but it's still more than enough. This reason is mainly why I want a Mark VIII so much for my next car, as opposed to the sedan I really like, the LT1 Fleetwood. While the Fleetwood has tons of room front and rear, which is a high priority for me, I want the more personal feel of the Mark VIII..the bucket seats, center console and slightly snug rear section. Plus, all I've owned so far is large sedans.

I gotta agree with Benzilla, coupes just have a more youthful and sexy appeal to them. Coupe deVille sounds smoother than Sedan deVille & 3 Series Coupe sounds better than 3 Series sedan, etc etc. "Yeah, that's my Coupe over there..." sounds a lot sexier than "yeah, that's my sedan over there..." Sedan is family, boring, middle aged. Coupe is youth, fun, fast.


I don't know if Chevy should bring back the Monte...the Monte came out of an era when personal luxury coupes were huge (pun intended). Everyone wanted a big long coupe with comfy seats and a hood that seemed like a mile long. Chevy saw the opportunity and wanted their piece of the pie. Now the desire is fast for cheap, Chevy's got the Camaro and that's gonna sell real well, so there's really no desire for Chev's personal luxury coupe anymore.

Sandy
07-22-07, 06:24 PM
Give the poor car credit for being the last one standing !!

Eldorado, Riviera, Toronado, Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, Charger, Cordoba, Cougar, Thunderbird, Lincoln Mark 5,6,7 and 8 and Torino Elite. Outlasted 10 competitiors.