: Imperial is Dead



Playdrv4me
07-19-07, 10:46 AM
:( Stupid fuel economy... http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=121748

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-19-07, 12:09 PM
Damnit! Well that's a sign of the times.

Jesda
07-19-07, 01:06 PM
I'm sad. Okay, not really.

Smart move. Go Cerberus!

lawfive
07-19-07, 01:38 PM
"We felt it would have been irresponsible to bring a vehicle like that to the market at this time."

"Instead, we're gonna cram a 6.4 liter Hemi into the new Dodge Challenger. Much less irresponsible, no?"

gdwriter
07-19-07, 01:49 PM
Sandy will not be happy.

Frost
07-19-07, 01:57 PM
He's not gonna be the only unhappy camper. I had my eye on that one as well.

Buncha politically correct, "green" bean counters. And I'll bet they all have to squat to pee. Just what we need: Green Beanies now making the decisions and running the design group of Chrysler. I can't WAIT to see what monumental duds come out of THAT marriage!.

lawfive
07-19-07, 02:00 PM
And I'll bet they all have to squat to pee.

Oh, thanks a lot you turkey. Now my wife says I have to fight you. :lol:

Blackout
07-19-07, 02:02 PM
*single tear* :*(

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-19-07, 02:05 PM
The soul of Chrysler is dying. Somehow I wouldn't be surprised to see this new company cut the good models too (Challenger, Charger, SRTs) etc etc.

Jesda
07-19-07, 02:20 PM
Sandy should be happy. This thing looked like shit!

Sandy
07-19-07, 05:39 PM
Sandy is neither SAD nor HAPPY as Sandy never, for a moment believed it.
Allow me the explain.
Making & parading that Imperial to be made at the intended plant was no more & no less of a ploy to obtain concessions by the workers, and the Unions by dangling the Imperial Carott in their faces. As in, you'll have overtime and this is gonna be a hit and we will need you and will put limits on new hire-ees and and and life will be sweet.
Soon as the concessions were meet, YANK - away goes the Imperial.

Look, the fuel regulations do not take effect until 2020. THAT Imperial could have been in showrooms in 2009. That's 11 years prior to the regulations!
Enough to run it 4 years & facelift it for another 4 years !!

If CryCo is so duly concerned about fuel, what's with the 6.1 Hemi in so many lines of cars & trucks? 'Ya all know it will eventually be in the Challenger !

Coffees on.... SMELL IT :)

Wheelman322
07-19-07, 05:52 PM
That sucks. If they nix the Challenger too, I hope they file chapter 11. I thought Chrysler was making a comeback with cars like the 300C, but i think that was just a fluke. Their future probably holds a bunch of Chinese engineered junk.

Sandy
07-19-07, 07:39 PM
CryCo has never had the mega quasi-billions of Ford & G.M.

CryCo has never either 1) had the money or was willing to spend the money, or 2) just didn't know HOW to MARKET a luxury car.

If you think back, (and that depends upon each reader's age - how far they can think back to).... CryCo's money from large sales numbers came from the persons only able (or willing) to spend entry level monies, at any given time-frame. Be it the Valiant, the Dodge Dart, the Coronet, the Belvedere, the Volare, the Aspen, the Omni, the Horizon, more recently the Neon, and the current cars. These are what kept CryCo afloat. This is what they were selling, while GM was selling LeSabres & Electras & Park Avenues, and Cadillacs, and Olds 98 & 88s and Pontiac Bonnevilles & Grand Prixs and Caprices and Ford was selling Mark 6,7 & 8s and Continentials & Town Cars, and Grand Marquis & Thunberbirds !

Sure, they could put a vertical grille and fancy interior into a Dodge Diplomat or Dynasty and "make" a New Yorker or Imperial, and sell like 50 thou of them, but that would be the limit, per any given year. They were the coffee and desert, but the meal that kept dealers afloat was the cheap(er) cars.

Put bluntly, CryCo has not a clue, as to how to market, and gain acceptance in the Luxury car arena. Never did - Never will ! It takes MEGA bucks, that CryCo has never really been fortunate enough to have.

Just because you bring out a nice Imperial, does not mean folks are gonna beat a path to your door. They have to "court" & cater to the wealthy, they have to TAKE the car to places where the wealthy congrate, they have to advertise in the reading material that the wealthy read and offer an unheard of warrantee, offer free Imperial loaners WITH gas, and all of that kinda stuff, and then it will take 8 years to register a blip on the luxury car screen.

Remember, year ago it was Cadillac & Lincoln as competition. Today it's still Cadillac & Lincoln, PLUS Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Infiniti & Lexus.
Each of the above have EXCLUSIVE dealerships!! Mr & Mrs Wealthy coming in to see the Imperial have to endure passing a Nitro? A Wrangler? A Dodge ? Oh, Horrors.

Yes, it may be silly, but it's fact! The well to do DEMAND EXCLUSITIVITY ! Watch, keep your eye on Maserati. They got it down 100% & in the last quarter, all of the above mentioned cars sales were down. Maserati was up 70% and made the spotlight on the cover of the WALL STREET JOURNAL.
One Maserati dealer in Calif. took in 12 M-Bs in 1 month alone! Maserati knows how to do it. CryCo is lost out there between Pluto & Mars.

IF they ever bring back the IMP and it's a decent car, I'll buy one, but that's mostly in memory of my folks.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-19-07, 08:05 PM
Well, now I know why the Lebaron never sold as well as the deVille or Continental!

Sandy
07-20-07, 12:25 AM
The LeBaron was a guizzied up Diplomat, which in turn was a stretched Aspen/Volare. It looked nice, stylish and all but road lousey and the interior squeeked so bad, one would think it had field mice in it :eek:

Playdrv4me
07-20-07, 01:00 AM
CryCo has never had the mega quasi-billions of Ford & G.M.

CryCo has never either 1) had the money or was willing to spend the money, or 2) just didn't know HOW to MARKET a luxury car.

If you think back, (and that depends upon each reader's age - how far they can think back to).... CryCo's money from large sales numbers came from the persons only able (or willing) to spend entry level monies, at any given time-frame. Be it the Valiant, the Dodge Dart, the Coronet, the Belvedere, the Volare, the Aspen, the Omni, the Horizon, more recently the Neon, and the current cars. These are what kept CryCo afloat. This is what they were selling, while GM was selling LeSabres & Electras & Park Avenues, and Cadillacs, and Olds 98 & 88s and Pontiac Bonnevilles & Grand Prixs and Caprices and Ford was selling Mark 6,7 & 8s and Continentials & Town Cars, and Grand Marquis & Thunberbirds !

Sure, they could put a vertical grille and fancy interior into a Dodge Diplomat or Dynasty and "make" a New Yorker or Imperial, and sell like 50 thou of them, but that would be the limit, per any given year. They were the coffee and desert, but the meal that kept dealers afloat was the cheap(er) cars.

Put bluntly, CryCo has not a clue, as to how to market, and gain acceptance in the Luxury car arena. Never did - Never will ! It takes MEGA bucks, that CryCo has never really been fortunate enough to have.

Just because you bring out a nice Imperial, does not mean folks are gonna beat a path to your door. They have to "court" & cater to the wealthy, they have to TAKE the car to places where the wealthy congrate, they have to advertise in the reading material that the wealthy read and offer an unheard of warrantee, offer free Imperial loaners WITH gas, and all of that kinda stuff, and then it will take 8 years to register a blip on the luxury car screen.

Remember, year ago it was Cadillac & Lincoln as competition. Today it's still Cadillac & Lincoln, PLUS Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Infiniti & Lexus.
Each of the above have EXCLUSIVE dealerships!! Mr & Mrs Wealthy coming in to see the Imperial have to endure passing a Nitro? A Wrangler? A Dodge ? Oh, Horrors.

Yes, it may be silly, but it's fact! The well to do DEMAND EXCLUSITIVITY ! Watch, keep your eye on Maserati. They got it down 100% & in the last quarter, all of the above mentioned cars sales were down. Maserati was up 70% and made the spotlight on the cover of the WALL STREET JOURNAL.
One Maserati dealer in Calif. took in 12 M-Bs in 1 month alone! Maserati knows how to do it. CryCo is lost out there between Pluto & Mars.

IF they ever bring back the IMP and it's a decent car, I'll buy one, but that's mostly in memory of my folks.

Excellent post and EXACTLY the same reason the Volkswagen Phaeton was doomed from day one in the U.S. God forbid I have to drive a Jetta loaner!

Lord Cadillac
07-20-07, 01:23 AM
Yeah. What a crock.


"We felt it would have been irresponsible to bring a vehicle like that to the market at this time."

"Instead, we're gonna cram a 6.4 liter Hemi into the new Dodge Challenger. Much less irresponsible, no?"

dkozloski
07-20-07, 01:49 AM
The late '50s Imperials were the worst built pieces of crap I ever had to work on. I was working at a machine and welding shop. Imperials would not make it to Fairbanks over the Alaska Highway under their own power. Virtually every one that tried it, was brought to us on a wrecker hook by the dealer. Chrysler Corp. knew what the problem was because they supplied us with factory prints to reinforce problem areas. The other Chrysler products of the time were just as bad. Chrysler had recently converted to unitized construction and missed the mark badly. During the same period of time there was one Ford product and one Oldsmobile with a broken frame. The Olds had dropped a wheel in a culvert. One Imperial had a strange rattle as well. I found a 1 1/2 in ball bearing that had been welded into a box section that approximated a frame rail. Everytime the car started out the bearing rolled to the back. Everytime the car stopped it rolled all the way to the front. During the same period I found a Coca Cola bottle in the door of a new Olds. UAW forever.

Jesda
07-20-07, 02:16 AM
Chrysler has had plenty of success with the 300M and 300C. Luxury-aspirational cars priced right and well-optioned.

Both M and C are appealingly styled. This Imperial wasn't about moving Chrysler upmarket. It was about making a cartoon version of the 300. Not a darn thing about the Imperial concept said "Take me seriously."

dkozloski
07-20-07, 03:58 AM
Chrysler has had plenty of success with the 300M and 300C. Luxury-aspirational cars priced right and well-optioned.

Both M and C are appealingly styled. This Imperial wasn't about moving Chrysler upmarket. It was about making a cartoon version of the 300. Not a darn thing about the Imperial concept said "Take me seriously."
The original Mexican Road Race 300s were serious cars. About every "300" after that was as fake as a Ford Thunderbird; all styling and no go. They're still trying to feed off the originals.

Jesda
07-20-07, 04:14 AM
The original Mexican Road Race 300s were serious cars. About every "300" after that was as fake as a Ford Thunderbird; all styling and no go. They're still trying to feed off the originals.

Modern day 300s actually have more power, and theyre quicker and handle better.

Blackout
07-20-07, 08:43 AM
I will take a 300M Special Edition any day!

Sandy
07-20-07, 12:22 PM
I thought that this last genertion T-Bird would be a roaring success, as it followed the theme and style of the original, right down to the porthole top, 2-seater, hard & soft tops, V-8 engine...... It flopped. Why ?

Because those who could recall the original, are slowly giving up driving and are my age (60) at the youngest....and the younger generations who today are in their 50s, 40s, & 30's don't lust after the cars that people did in 1956 !

dkozloski
07-20-07, 12:57 PM
I thought that this last genertion T-Bird would be a roaring success, as it followed the theme and style of the original, right down to the porthole top, 2-seater, hard & soft tops, V-8 engine...... It flopped. Why ?

Because those who could recall the original, are slowly giving up driving and are my age (60) at the youngest....and the younger generations who today are in their 50s, 40s, & 30's don't lust after the cars that people did in 1956 !

When the original Thunderbirds were first put on a track vs. Zora Arkus-Duntov's Corvettes they embarrassed themselves so badly that Ford abandoned the whole idea of racing T-birds as sports cars and it was never attempted again. The story was that as the Ford haulers arrived at the track the Corvettes had got there first and were already making laps. The Ford engineers saw what the Corvettes were doing, stopped and reversed the unloading procedure, reloaded, and sneaked away with their tales between their legs.

It took Chrysler nearly fifty years to get the 300 back up to the standards of the original. Talk about wandering in the wilderness. As far as that goes, most of the early 300s were one off cars. Only seven were ever built with French made Pont-A-Mousson four speed transmissions.

Sandy
07-20-07, 01:09 PM
How true!

If they actually do an Imperial, it CANNOT look anything like a 300. People will say, it's just a guzzied-up 300 for alot more $$$. It MUST look 100% different than anything else on the market. The concept Imperial met that challenge, but was ugly.

dkozloski
07-20-07, 01:31 PM
The '50s Imperials were characterized by a big, fake, Continental style spare tire embedded in the trunk lid. Everything about the car screamed FAKE!!! Why shouldn't any recreation be just as fake?

carzzy
07-20-07, 01:55 PM
When the original Thunderbirds were first put on a track vs. Zora Arkus-Duntov's Corvettes they embarrassed themselves so badly that Ford abandoned the whole idea of racing T-birds as <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=sports%20cars" onmouseover="window.status='sports cars'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">sports cars</a> and it was never attempted again. The story was that as the Ford haulers arrived at the track the Corvettes had got there first and were already making laps. The Ford engineers saw what the Corvettes were doing, stopped and reversed the unloading procedure, reloaded, and sneaked away with their tales between their legs.

It took Chrysler nearly fifty years to get the 300 back up to the standards of the original. Talk about wandering in the wilderness. As far as that goes, most of the early 300s were one off cars. Only seven were ever built with French made Pont-A-Mousson four speed transmissions.

That must have been around 1956 or 7 because, toward the end of 1954 the Corvette was slated for extinction due to it's poor sales. It was actually the Thunderbird coming to market in 1955 (and Zora) that the Corvette survived and became a performer in 1956.

dkozloski
07-20-07, 04:05 PM
That must have been around 1956 or 7 because, toward the end of 1954 the Corvette was slated for extinction due to it's poor sales. It was actually the Thunderbird coming to market in 1955 (and Zora) that the Corvette survived and became a performer in 1956.
What revived the Corvette was the small block Chevy engine. The contemporary Ford "Y-block" was a boat anchor that the only thing you could do for it was two aspirins and lots of rest. Anything you did for small block Chevys made them explode with power. Put that together with the great Duntov cams and springs, handling suspension kits, Borg-Warner T-10s and all the rest of the good stuff that anybody could and did buy from the Chevy dealers and performance Thunderbirds were doomed. The Chevy dealer here in Fairbanks took up half his warehouse space with performance parts and they went out the door as fast as they came in. All you could get from the Ford dealer was a big argument and a sour look. By 1960 there were small block Chevys turning over 10,000 RPM on the drag strip. These were the days of the Isky "Hi-Rev" kits. I remember a GM engineer remarking, "I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes". The local Chevy parts manager drove a '57 fuel injected Impala. His helper had a '58 Impala with a tri-power 348 bored .120" over with 5.14:1 rear gears and a Chet Herbert roller cam.

Playdrv4me
07-20-07, 04:25 PM
I thought that this last genertion T-Bird would be a roaring success, as it followed the theme and style of the original, right down to the porthole top, 2-seater, hard & soft tops, V-8 engine...... It flopped. Why ?

Because those who could recall the original, are slowly giving up driving and are my age (60) at the youngest....and the younger generations who today are in their 50s, 40s, & 30's don't lust after the cars that people did in 1956 !

It was a great car, on a solid platform... but unfortunately it was a little overpriced considering its original price-point. Also, it was only designed as a limited run. I think had it become a regular model at a more modest price, it would have returned to be a healthy and profitable seller, but it was probably better to keep it limited for collectability purposes... they are still selling for well in excess of 20k.

dkozloski
07-20-07, 04:36 PM
It was a great car, on a solid platform... but unfortunately it was a little overpriced considering its original price-point. Also, it was only designed as a limited run. I think had it become a regular model at a more modest price, it would have returned to be a healthy and profitable seller, but it was probably better to keep it limited for collectability purposes... they are still selling for well in excess of 20k.
I saw one on the road the other day and the first thought that struck me was, "This thing is a cartoon caricature of the original". The original was a cartoon caricature of a sports car so the result is truly remarkable.