: 88 5.0L Brougham-Olds Water Pump Removal



Globalwarmer
07-16-07, 12:29 PM
Is it necessary to remove the timing cover to remove the water pump off a 1988 Brougham with a 5.0L Oldsmobile engine?

I can't get the water pump off - I called one dealer and they said to "just pry it off", a second dealer said to "remove the front timing cover - which includes pulling the crank pully, harmonic balancer, and good luck getting it back together so it doesn't leak oil"....

What started off to be a basic backyard job is spiraling out of control!

Thanks for any advice!

N0DIH
07-16-07, 01:28 PM
No, it bolts to it. Just pull the alternator and power steering pump and that should give you clearance. Not a terribly hard job at all.

Look at new pump and make sure you have all the bolts, there is like 5 large and 5 small IIRC. Leave the cover in place, you don't want to get into the cover, it will mess up the front oil pan seal.

If it was me, if I was in that far, I would replace the front crankshaft seal, but you need to remove the balancer.... But you might find high mileage engines with a groove worn in the balancer, and that is when you have issues, as the balancer will cause the leak after that.... There is a fix for that, but may be hard to find nowdays....

Globalwarmer
07-16-07, 05:34 PM
Thanks - All bolts and studs have been removed from the wp - the top half of the wp is loose, but the bottom half is tight to the front of the engine - I guess I'll just keep trying to work it all the way loose, it just feels like something is still holding the wp to the engine - Went to CarQuest to see a new one and verified I've pulled all of the bolts and studs - The Oldsmobile Hayes engine manual for a 1988 5.0L does show that the wp can be attached to the front plate, then the plate installed with the wp on it, onto the top of the oil pan, when the harmonic balancer is pulled - Just want to be sure before I go on prying and end up knocking something out of true.

Thanks, again!

RocketFast321
07-17-07, 01:16 AM
When i did the water pump on my 84 307. I learn that who made this engine was smoking something. One bolt i did not see because it was covered in random engine juices was right behind the harmonic balancer to the left i think. And you don't have to mess with the cover.

N0DIH
07-17-07, 01:38 PM
Yup, you probably have 1 more bolt, look very very carefully. Once you pry part and it pops, it is gonna be loose. So if not, there is a bolt.

Look up any Olds V8, they are all the same...

HodgeMcGuyver
07-17-07, 05:55 PM
Hello,, Sorry to try to contact you like this But I don't know my way around here ,,,, My Question is for N0DIH I have a 1996 N* with stock PCM & I can not get past Vats (I think) it will run for 3 secs & then dies, Has spark,has fuel pressure, I do not have the trans hooked up ,,,,,,,
Can you Help ??????
Thanks Roger

N0DIH
07-17-07, 11:25 PM
No trans? The lack of weight from the torque converter is a very likey culprit of an engine that won't run. Just try to start a lawnmower without a blade. It won't run.

IIRC with a VATS issue, it won't even crank, or it just won't have spark OR fuel, both will be gone.

Give it a try and see if you can get the converter at least hooked up, or maybe a man trans flywheel. Something to give it some weight.

HodgeMcGuyver
07-18-07, 01:51 AM
Hello N0DIH, It runs , it runs good Revs up, sounds crisp but then it dies after 3 secs,,,still has spark,still has fuel pressure ( I pulled a plug wire, put a spark plug in it ,it sparked the whole time till the motor stopped turning,the fuel pressure is at 45psi untill 2 secs after the motor stops then it drops 2psi ,,when the fuel pump stops ) The PCM is cutting off the signal to the injectors. (The PCM is looking for a signal from the Vats) It is sitting on a stand ,,, not in a car. There is nothing else hooked up except for the PCM, fuel pump, & the ignition, oh & all the sensors needed to run.
Thanks Roger

N0DIH
07-18-07, 09:14 AM
Do you have the original key? Ohm it out and see what resistor you need, and install it in the line that was used to the column for it. Or you can keep experiementing on the resistors till you find the right one. Do a search on VATS in the Northstar forum, post there, they have the FSM on the N*, I don't have one yet, so I can't look up the details, and my dad's book is in storage, so I can't get to his. I'll read up on my FSM (94 Fleetwood) and see what it shows, but I am pretty sure without the right key, the PCM won't even allow it to start. I am pretty sure you can adapt a LS1 PCM and run it, but that is extra expense and will need to be tuned for it specifically. Get a hold of eWill3rd and AJxtcman, they both have access to dealer info (they work at dealers) and are very knowledgeable on the N*. I unfortunately don't have a lot of experience on them, just some messy misfire work that ended up being a bad plug that was supposedly replaced and wasn't so we chased our tail for a long while....

On the Olds water pump, there is 4 5/16" bolts and 4 1/4" bolts. If you don't have all of them, you won't get it off. Called my resident Olds guru who knows, has a Olds DX 350 with the best cyl heads you can get for an Olds on them, visit http://www.rocketracingperformance.com/ to know more on some GREAT Olds heads for your 307! If it wasn't for me, these heads wouldn't exist.....

Globalwarmer
07-19-07, 11:30 AM
- Got the wp off and changed it - thanks all

- What was flexing was the top of the timing cover - the wp has fused to it - after a 2nd trip to the parts store to inspect a replacement wp, (and reading the posts) I verified I had all the bolts, studs out - and ended up using a large screw driver and hammer to tap - tap the wp seam to get it loose then worked my way around it - whew! I by-passed the whole harmonic balancer, crank pulley, timing plate cover scenairo, not sure I could have done it...

- Getting the power steering pump assy back on was tough... I had left the ps pulley on the pump and tipped the entire ps assy forward... Still need to get the bottom bolt back in... it's up behind the pulley... I'll slide down to the garage and get it up on a lift...

- The previous owner had disconnected the a/c and air pump - So I finished the job and took them right off.

- No leaks - runs well - but the belts still screach... (one of the initial reasons I replaced the wp...) - I'm thinking the ps pump pulley may not be aligned with the drive pulley...

- Anyways... here's to backyard Cadillac fun!

RocketFast321
07-19-07, 04:05 PM
The ps pump is always fun. You might need to get the belt tool from jcwhitney part No. ZX156161X .
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d144/DrRansom442/belttool.jpg
I have one and love it. Also it may be a good ideal to leave the a/c compressor on so the PS pump and Alt don't put too much force on one side on the water pump.

Globalwarmer
07-20-07, 11:51 AM
"it may be a good ideal to leave the a/c compressor on so the PS pump and Alt don't put too much force on one side on the water pump."

--- Good point! --- The previous owner had already removed the a/c belt (a weak attempt to save on gas, I suppose...), but for how long I don't know... Instead of fighting the bracket and getting the mess back on the wp studs, I just finished the job... and yanked it... I'll ask around at the garage too...

I'll check out the belt tool, since I seem to keep working on them lately.

Thanks!