: Timesert pulled when torquing headbolts-What Now??



danssts
07-10-07, 12:12 PM
Guys, I was torquing down the headbolts on my 4.6 Northstar last night. The first three passes went good, however the 4th pass, first bolt, I just got to 60 degrees when it pulled though. I dont know what to do except take the head off and throw another insert in it, and not tighten it down as much. I know this will cause problems in the future. However I do no want to buy the bigsert kit as I already have a lot of money into this job.

The reason this pulled out was because the front head gasket was done in the past, with timserts. I drilled out one of them and realized that it has been done because the tap did no tapping, it went in very easily. I put a timesert in there anyways hoping it would hold.

Are the headbolts that I installed still okay to use?

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 12:26 PM
awesome! That is MY POINT!!!!!!!!

danssts
Sorry for your troubles. you must have a 99 and prior correct?
Norms inserts are the best thing to use on 99 and prior.
The time serts inserts may have broke in half or just pulled out.
check out NS300L on ebay.

dkozloski
07-10-07, 12:32 PM
The correct replacement for a pulled Timesert is a Bigsert. This is the GM engineered and validated repair.

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 12:53 PM
The correct replacement for a pulled Timesert is a Bigsert. This is the GM engineered and validated repair.

I do not believe that one bit! The last time I checked they had not been approved.
Also on the GM Cadillac dealers forum I have heard of the big inserts pulling.
You did not read my other posting in the link to the Fiero forum.
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http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/075382.html
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Bottom line to fix it and not replace the short block you need Norms inserts.

dkozloski
07-10-07, 02:21 PM
According to Bbob, a GM Powertrain engineer who was on the original Northstar design team, both Timeserts and Bigserts were fully engineered and validated by Time and GM before the first Northstar engined car was ever sold. Some of the block defects may have been so gross that they were not 100% effective but they did a more than adequate job for many years. As time goes by memories fade and facts are muddled but the guy that did the actual work can still ask, "Vas ya dere, Charley?" (Baron Munchausen")

danssts
07-10-07, 05:22 PM
So the thing to do would be to remove the broken insert and replace it with a longer one??

danssts
07-10-07, 05:24 PM
And yes it is a 99 sts, the rear head went on nicely, I finished it today with no problems

eldorado1
07-10-07, 05:47 PM
The reason this pulled out was because the front head gasket was done in the past, with timserts.

You sure it was a timesert and not a helicoil?

The correct way to fix it is a bigsert. It is not longer, but larger in diameter. This gives it more surface area to bite into. Some people skip the timesert altogether and go straight for the bigsert. Try to install another timesert and you're basically running with one less bolt. Chances are all of the other holes are "loose" too. Which would you rather do - fix it right now, or put it all back together again and have it overheat severely if driven more than 1 mile (and have to pull it all apart again)?

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 05:55 PM
You sure it was a timesert and not a helicoil?

The correct way to fix it is a bigsert. It is not longer, but larger in diameter. This gives it more surface area to bite into. Some people skip the timesert altogether and go straight for the bigsert. Try to install another timesert and you're basically running with one less bolt. Chances are all of the other holes are "loose" too. Which would you rather do - fix it right now, or put it all back together again and have it overheat severely if driven more than 1 mile (and have to pull it all apart again)?

I do this all day long guy's. I have an 06 FWD Northstar out currently.
Now I will post all the information.
TIMERSERTS WILL NOT HOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 06:19 PM
Take a look

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 06:22 PM
Have you been told that your Northstar head bolts are stripped out and there is nothing that can be done to fix it because it had already been repaired once before? That's what happened to me! I bought a pre-owned 1996 Cadillac SLS and started having problems with it overheating, only to find out it had been repaired once before with Coil type and GM-approved Solid type inserts with synchronized internal and external threads. I was told that a new block would be around $7000.00! After doing some research, I found out that the Northstar engines were notorious for this problem.
I am a Tool and Die Maker by trade, and I developed the NS300L Insert System (Patent Pending) out of necessity and frustration. The NS300L Insert System is a thread repair kit I designed to outperform all other insert systems on the market designed for the Northstar engine. Unlike inserts with synchronized internal and external threads, the NS300L insert is a much larger and much stronger insert, with a much courser external thread.
The NS300L Insert System has over two times more thread engagement within the aluminum block than the GM-approved solid synchronized type inserts, and almost four times that of the common coil type inserts. There is nothing wrong with those other inserts, but the challenge is they do not always grip enough of the already weak aluminum, and have a tendency to pull out during the head bolt tightening process. Occasionally, those other types of inserts have failed only a few hundred miles after the repair. I have had several people contact me with this challenge, including Cadillac technicians.
My mechanic was impressed during his installation of my NS300L Insert System in my engine, especially with how easy they were to install.. Not long after that, word got around and I received a phone call from another garage in the area that had the same problem that I did, and heard that I had developed my own insert kit. They had a Northstar that was repaired once before with Coil type inserts, that had stripped out of the block. At their request I made an insert kit for them and they loved it!
The inserts are 1- ĺ inches long and have a M11 X 1.5 internal thread.
Inserts will work in "93" through "99" 4.0/4.6L NorthStar engines and 2000 through 2003 with different depths of lower and upper bank holes.
I received a quote for a solid insert kit with synchronized internal and external threads to do all 20 bolt holes for over $350.00 (the same inserts that pulled out of my block ), and a oversized insert kit to do all 20 holes for over $400.00.
Frequently Asked Questions.
Q - What makes the NS300L Insert System more reliable than the GM-approved insert?
A - The NS300L is a high quality high-strength insert, with a much courser external thread, having over two times more thread engagement within the aluminum block than the GM-approved insert.

Q - Why should I purchase the NS300L Insert System over other insert kits on the market?
A - Piece of mind! Several customers, including Cadillac mechanics, have commented that they were very impressed with the quality and strength of the NS300L insert, and wished they had purchased my kit in the first place rather than going through the expense and frustration of a second repair. These repairs generally cost between $2800 and $4500!

Q - Is the alignment block the only thing that keeps the drill straight? I noticed that the GM-approved kit has a bolted template, and it uses a drill bushing to guide the drill and tap.
A - No, it is not necessary to use the alignment block to guide the drill bit. The first thread in the head bolt hole starts about 1-1/4" below the deck surface. The unthreaded portion of the larger hole above the threads is approximately the same diameter as the drill provided in the kit, which works very well as a built-in drill bushing to keep the drill bit square to the original hole. The alignment block (also known as a "tap block") is used to start the tap square Ö a common machine shop practice for starting taps straight.

Q - I noticed that the GM-approved kit has a stop-collar on the drill bit. What keeps your drill bit from drilling too deep?
A - The reason the GM-approved kit uses a stop-collar and locating fixture, is because the depth of their hole revolves around their locking feature. They have a flange around the top of their insert to create a positive stop so that the installation tool (a tool much like a thread forming tap) also forms the last couple of threads on the bottom of the insert. The flange prevents the insert from turning during this process. This locking feature expands the last couple external threads of the insert, preventing the insert from turning out in the event that the head bolts would need to be removed later. This locking feature also creates a high amount of unnecessary outward pressure in an area of the engine block that is not very thick to begin with. My inserts are designed without the need for a flange, eliminating the need for a stop collar and eliminating unnecessary outward pressure. The drill bit in my kit is designed to stop when it reaches the bottom of the hole. This is accomplished by removing a portion of the drill point, preventing the drill bit from cutting deeper than the original hole. The drill bitís cutting edges are also ground in a manner that helps prevent them from grabbing and twisting itself into the hole.

Q - Can the NS300L Insert System be used if the engine has previously been repaired with coil type or a GM-approved "first repair" kit?
A - Absolutely, and my inserts may be your only recourse, short of buying another engine block.

Q - Can I use the original head bolts with your kit?
A - You can, but GM recommends that you purchase new head bolts due to the old bolts being stretched.

Q - Will I be able to purchase only inserts in the future, or do I have to purchase the kit every time?
A - The inserts can be purchased individually.
Success of the NS300L insert kit is based on the inserts being installed correctly and square to the deck surface. It is recommended that the inserts be installed by a mechanic experienced in drilling and tapping holes. When installed correctly, coustomers have found that the NS300L insert system has exceded there expectations.

Insert Kit includes:
Installation instruction
21 Threaded inserts (steel).
1 Tap Drill (17/32" - same size as the counter bores in engine block).
1 5/8-11 Plug Tap
1 5/8-11 Bottom Hand Tap
1 Tap and Tap Drill Alignment Block.
1 "Tap Magic" tapping fluid.
1 LOCTITE 266,(shown) or Permatex high temp. high strength thread lock(10ml).

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 06:27 PM
Norms information

eldorado1
07-10-07, 06:36 PM
Take a look

Post a picture of the bigsert too. If the timesert doesn't work, then what are the differences between the bigsert and Norm's insert? Are they noticeable?

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 07:03 PM
Post a picture of the bigsert too. If the timesert doesn't work, then what are the differences between the bigsert and Norm's insert? Are they noticeable?

TimeSert had a picture at one time of both inserts. They showed the two side by side. It was at the time of release of the big serts.

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 07:05 PM
Pictures.
This is my block in my car

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 07:07 PM
More pictures
The aluminum sure is shiny.

eldorado1
07-10-07, 08:00 PM
That's what happened to me! I bought a pre-owned 1996 Cadillac SLS and started having problems with it overheating, only to find out it had been repaired once before with Coil type and GM-approved Solid type inserts with synchronized internal and external threads.

Wait, so it was repaired once or twice total? Helicoils are not an approved substitute for timeserts. They WILL fail. Once helicoils are used (and fail), you MUST use the bigsert. That is straight from timesert's website. Otherwise the timeserts will fail in short period assuming they even torque.

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 08:24 PM
Wait, so it was repaired once or twice total? Helicoils are not an approved substitute for timeserts. They WILL fail. Once helicoils are used (and fail), you MUST use the bigsert. That is straight from timesert's website. Otherwise the timeserts will fail in short period assuming they even torque.

I work at a CADILLAC Dealership. We have TimeSerts. How would I get a Helicoil?
I have installed close to 50 set of pistons in 00 to 03 and I have no clue on how many 99 and prior Northstars that I have had apart. Hundreds.
I have never seen a Helicoil in a Northstar block. We have a Helicoil kit for the 4100-4900 engines.
If you look at the pictures you will see the block is bad.

AJxtcman
07-10-07, 08:35 PM
We had a customer (from a used car lot) come in with coolant running into the valley from the head gaskets. I mean running. It had a misfire on both banks. I pulled the rear head and and looked at the bad threads. I could see that the pits were too deep. I drilled the worst hole out and and installed a TimeSert. I installed a old head bolt with a spacer. I torqued it to 30 ft lbs and it pulled free. The used car dealer that sent of the car to fix got me a whole car that had been in a roll over. I swapped out the engine and let this block sit next to the brake lathe. I have my own personal parts washer spray cabinet. When I ran into an issue with my 5k mile motor in my Fiero I built the junk block motor and installed Norms inserts.

The block was a Virgin all except the one hole.
As you can see in the pictures the inserts are big. look at the threads in the block.
32864

Ranger
07-10-07, 08:40 PM
I would bet that it is not the Timesert that is the problem, but the parent metal was compromised as AJ said in another thread. In that case, nothing is going to hold. Definitely do not waste your time putting another Timesert in and torquing it less. I think your only option now is to use a Bigsert (unless those NSL's are a larger diameter than the Bigserts), get another short block or another engine.

eldorado1
07-11-07, 09:29 AM
I work at a CADILLAC Dealership. We have TimeSerts. How would I get a Helicoil?

I was quoting you quoting Norm.

He said the previous repair of "coil" inserts failed. Of course they failed. If the repair involved both coil and timesert repairs in the holes, it would be a disaster. If the repair had coils which failed, then he installed regular timeserts, they too would fail! I'm not sure which happened, but it sounds like one of the two. I would think that you should also have bigserts in stock, but I guess not. Have you ever used a bigsert?

AJxtcman
07-11-07, 01:43 PM
I was quoting you quoting Norm.

He said the previous repair of "coil" inserts failed. Of course they failed. If the repair involved both coil and timesert repairs in the holes, it would be a disaster. If the repair had coils which failed, then he installed regular timeserts, they too would fail! I'm not sure which happened, but it sounds like one of the two. I would think that you should also have bigserts in stock, but I guess not. Have you ever used a bigsert?

On the GM Cadillac service forum a tech was asking about them awhile back. The tech had a bad block. The GM Area Vehicle Manager (AVM) got some Big serts, but I don't think it helped. GM did not had a part # or a listing for them. That was the first time I had heard about them. I looked them up on the TimeSert web site and checked them out. GM has not shipped out any tooling to install them. They send us tools and then bill us and they are not cheap. Nick name = Spent Moore. The dealer would have to buy the tools to install them and then hope that it would fix the car.

eldorado1
07-11-07, 03:11 PM
Does Norm know he didn't have to reinvent the wheel?

AJxtcman
07-11-07, 06:21 PM
Does Norm know he didn't have to reinvent the wheel?

Please look at all the pictures. I hope that it will clear that comment up.

eldorado1
07-11-07, 07:38 PM
Please look at all the pictures. I hope that it will clear that comment up.

you said you don't have a picture of a bigsert?

edit: I found information on the timesert website about the bigserts. They don't list the m11-1.5 specifically, but they do list m10 and m12-1.5, so you can interpolate what an m11-1.5 is... M10 uses a 31/64 drill. M12 uses a 37/64 drill. M11 should use a 34/64 drill or a 17/32 drill - the same size as Norm lists on his ebay auction page. Timeserts are synchronized thread inserts. However, no mention is made about the bigserts.

This got me to wonder.... Is norm's insert a bigsert? If he bought the drill bits, taps and inserts in bulk he could make a killing.

Raze
07-11-07, 08:32 PM
eldorado1,

I was wondering the same thing cause on another post someone was asking if they could 'assemble' their own kit for cheaper than Norm and I've tried a number of places like McMaster-Carr and MSC and couldn't find this magical M11x1.5 that's over 1" long which got me wondering...

I wonder if McMaster-Carr could custom order them, otherwise I know they will custom build parts to order we used to have it done at our combustion lab all the time, send em CAD model or custom part spec and they'd send back a quote or a vendor if they didn't have the part but knew someone that did...

AJxtcman
07-11-07, 11:31 PM
you said you don't have a picture of a bigsert?

edit: I found information on the timesert website about the bigserts. They don't list the m11-1.5 specifically, but they do list m10 and m12-1.5, so you can interpolate what an m11-1.5 is... M10 uses a 31/64 drill. M12 uses a 37/64 drill. M11 should use a 34/64 drill or a 17/32 drill - the same size as Norm lists on his ebay auction page. Timeserts are synchronized thread inserts. However, no mention is made about the bigserts.

This got me to wonder.... Is norm's insert a bigsert? If he bought the drill bits, taps and inserts in bulk he could make a killing.

No. Look at the GM kits on the Timesert catalog. I will post some more pictures.

lisekpl
07-13-07, 05:54 PM
Had the same problem, 3 timeserts pulled upon torqueing down the head bolts, bought bigserts and headbolts tightened down to exact specs. like a charm. No need for that other stuff, bigserts will do if regular ones fail.

eldorado1
07-13-07, 06:30 PM
I was wondering the same thing cause on another post someone was asking if they could 'assemble' their own kit for cheaper than Norm and I've tried a number of places like McMaster-Carr and MSC and couldn't find this magical M11x1.5 that's over 1" long which got me wondering...


I'm not sure I understand? I think Norm might be buying the bigserts directly from timesert (they can sell the inserts) and selling them with just a regular tap and drill bit and making a nice profit.

17/32" drill bit, 5/8-11 tap, cutting fluid and loctite... that's all that's in the kit. If somebody wanted to contact timesert about their bigsert to find out what their outer thread was...... we might be able to build our own kits for cheap.

The regular timeserts are synchronized threads, which means it's a specialized tap called a "screw thread insert" tap (STI). It's slightly larger than a regular tap of the same thread pitch. However - if the bigserts are not synchronized, and use the 5/8-11 tap... well you can get those at your local hardware store.

AJxtcman
07-13-07, 06:54 PM
I'm not sure I understand? I think Norm might be buying the bigserts directly from timesert (they can sell the inserts) and selling them with just a regular tap and drill bit and making a nice profit.



You are insane.
How could you ever think that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is this so hard for everybody to understand?
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The crappy TIME-SERT inserts are made from 12L14 carbon steel. It is like powder metal.

AJxtcman
07-13-07, 08:09 PM
33019

33020

33021

33022

33023

33024

33025

33026

33027

33028

AJxtcman
07-13-07, 08:16 PM
33029

33030

33031

33032

33033

eldorado1
07-13-07, 08:56 PM
You are insane.
How could you ever think that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is this so hard for everybody to understand?
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The crappy TIME-SERT inserts are made from 12L14 carbon steel. It is like powder metal.

Because nobody here knows what the thread is on a BIGSERT. But it uses the same drill bit as Norm's insert. Why would it do that unless it used the same thread?

If you have proof the BIGSERT does not use 5/8-11 threads, please post it!

You can order any of timesert's inserts in stainless steel, but that's not necessary.

AJxtcman
07-13-07, 09:49 PM
Because nobody here knows what the thread is on a BIGSERT. But it uses the same drill bit as Norm's insert. Why would it do that unless it used the same thread?

If you have proof the BIGSERT does not use 5/8-11 threads, please post it!

You can order any of timesert's inserts in stainless steel, but that's not necessary.

You stated that they are not 5/8 x 11.
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Ok you stated that they are synchronized threads on regular inserts. They are on all Timesert inserts. That is one of the major issues I have with both.
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Pros on Norm's = deeper threads to grip the material.
Con's on Norm's = Thread pitch is different so if the insert turns while torquing to angle you have an uneven torque. ....... #2 If you take the time to make sure that they bottom out at a specific depth that takes care of that problem, but you would need a stop collar.
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Pro's to Timeserts. GM approved, synchronized threads so they can rotate and not change the torque value.
Con's The break. They have very sallow threads. They just make the bolt bigger.
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GM uses a coarser thread pitch after 03 closer to Norm's

dkozloski
07-13-07, 11:39 PM
I don't see what the big deal is here. Anybody that calls himself a machinist and has a bench lathe can make his own "Norm" style inserts until the cows come home. Anybody that can see the marks on a machinist's scale can figure out how deep to drill the holes. Why is this being regarded as some kind of rocket science. In fact a clever guy can go to an industrial supply store that sells big cap screws, saw the threads off the end, drill and tap the thread ends to the headbolt size in his bench lathe and have a boatload of inserts in no time. He can make them as big as he wants. I must have made hundreds of threaded bushings in my career overhauling aircraft engines to repair other guys botches. It wasn't that long ago that every auto repair shop in the country had a bench lathe just for jobs like this. Has the U.S. really degenerated so far that we can't find people to make simple repairs that are ordinary in any self respecting third world country?

dkozloski
07-14-07, 02:14 AM
Thiking about it some more; there is no reason why a guy couldn't use hardware store "ready-bolt" threaded rod to make his own inserts. Even mild steel is twice as strong as the base aluminum and should work fine. All you need is a bench lathe to drill and tap the ready-bolt accurately in the center and part the inserts off to the desired length. Two blades in a hacksaw should do a servicable job of cutting a slot in the end for insertion but I think I'd make my own tool to screw inside with a stop collar. This is a job Cooter could do down in Mayberry.

AJxtcman
07-14-07, 09:23 AM
dkozloski
I did not pay the E-bay price and it was about the same price as the Timesert inserts. You would be best to have a screw shop knock off a few hundred, but at what cost per unit. I am ok with Norms price. We are talking between $150 to $200 in inserts on a $3000 to $4000 job. The timesert inserts are $100+ for all 20 on the job. That is just 1 to 2 hours of labor and if you have a TimeSert that pulls out when torquing you have just bought a head gasket and a bigsert or a Norm kit.
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Have someone pop out 100 and then sell them.

clarkz71
07-18-07, 01:41 PM
I think I would have a good look at the threads in the block and decide on which kit based on that.
I like the time-sert kit because of the bolt on guide plate.
But if I saw corrosion in the threads I think Norms kit would be safer.

97Concours1
07-19-07, 12:27 AM
Just joined this website today.

I just bought a 97 Deville with a blown head gasket (supposedly). I haven't torn it down yet to see, I'm just researching the problem. This is a great thread. I think I'm going to go straight to the biggest inserts I can find. I want to be able to torque to spec without ANY question. I plan to beat the heck out of this car, and I want it to hold. With the large inserts the cylindrical thread-root-shear-area in the block is so much greater, it's a no-brainer. If the regular timeserts don't even have a full thread depth on the outside threads, I would call them JUNK. They will just shear off the tips of your new threads and fail. Why are they waisting everyone's time and money.

tripledoil
07-19-07, 09:47 AM
TimeSert had a picture at one time of both inserts. They showed the two side by side. It was at the time of release of the big serts.

I used his on my car also- expensive, but they are super! Too bad I had the hacks at custom innovations do the work- But it is the answer to your problem. Timeserts do not work, if they do....they wont for long!

Zorb750
07-23-07, 02:58 AM
You are insane.
How could you ever think that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is this so hard for everybody to understand?
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The crappy TIME-SERT inserts are made from 12L14 carbon steel. It is like powder metal.

:stirpot:

My god, man! Do you make money off of this thing or something? Is Norm your long lost brother, or perhaps even your alter ego? If I were to try to convince all of my peers of something that they obviously were so reluctant to accept, I would at least do my best to maintain my composure (and thus some semblance of credibility!)

AJxtcman
07-23-07, 06:44 AM
:stirpot:

My god, man! Do you make money off of this thing or something? Is Norm your long lost brother, or perhaps even your alter ego? If I were to try to convince all of my peers of something that they obviously were so reluctant to accept, I would at least do my best to maintain my composure (and thus some semblance of credibility!)

After loosing several job I fully endorse his product. If you spend all the time to tear down the car, pull the heads, clean everything and reassemble it just to have a timesert pull out or break when torquing them you would feel the same way. That is only have the problem. After you did that much work the customer has two choices. The first is a short block and the second was push it out the door. After loosing several jobs I can now install Norm's inserts as a second choice.

eldorado1
07-23-07, 10:54 AM
:stirpot:

My god, man! Do you make money off of this thing or something? Is Norm your long lost brother, or perhaps even your alter ego? If I were to try to convince all of my peers of something that they obviously were so reluctant to accept, I would at least do my best to maintain my composure (and thus some semblance of credibility!)


Timeserts didn't work, and he didn't know the bigserts existed...... He found salvation from Norm. I would probably be doing the same thing.

med
07-23-07, 11:51 AM
Originally Posted by Zorb750


My god, man! Do you make money off of this thing or something? Is Norm your long lost brother, or perhaps even your alter ego? If I were to try to convince all of my peers of something that they obviously were so reluctant to accept, I would at least do my best to maintain my composure (and thus some semblance of credibility!)

AJ has a job and he isn't pushing anything but the truth. I stopped by to check on it myself. The original time-serts can let go. He showed me a block and yes there was powdered metal where a GM time-sert had been. He showed me Norm's product and it is superior to the most current GM time-sert. If you need convincing spend the money on a plane ticket and ask to stop on by, I'm sure he'd show you. I think he's helpful and treats this stuff with enthusiasm and respect because it is his job to do so! If you want to be convinced and apologize without buying a plane ticket check out any Northstar Fiero Forum with his user name on a thread. There's plenty of pics showing exactly what he's talking about. Bottom line: This guy does this for an honest living and therefore needs no more defending.

Sorry, glad to see so much participation on this thread. I feel for whoever has had this problem. I should get off my horse now. By the way, I saw Bert's (Highline DHS) the other day and it flies!

ThrowSumD'sONDatBiSH
10-16-07, 06:15 AM
I do this all day long guy's. I have an 06 FWD Northstar out currently.
Now I will post all the information.
TIMERSERTS WILL NOT HOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow so dont buy a timesert kit go straight for the bigsert kit even if the block hasnt been timeserted before?? I almost bought a timesert now I will not if it wont hold.

AJxtcman
10-16-07, 06:25 AM
This is all about the vintage of the block.:cool:

parts68
10-16-07, 08:29 AM
Wondering out loud what parts of a timesert kit can be used on the Normserts.
Im guessing only the tap block,which would have to be rebored.
OTOH a bigsert kit may be the ticket with Normserts.
I also thought the drill bit was cut off at end and the flute was modified.
How much are the bigserts and Normserts if you buy them separately?
Also why isnt there more discussion on using studs in lieu of GM head bolts?

97Concours1
10-16-07, 09:21 AM
wow so dont buy a timesert kit go straight for the bigsert kit even if the block hasnt been timeserted before?? I almost bought a timesert now I will not if it wont hold.

ThrowSumD'sONDatBiSH,

I responded on your thread and told you about the insert options. I didn't really want to be negative toward Timeserts so I didn't warn you about them. Sorry. Norm's might even be a better way to go than the Bigserts.

Zorb750
10-17-07, 03:08 AM
You know, I never really picked apart the initial message before now, even though I wrote a response a while back. This is what I should have written, instead of jumping on AJ about the insert bit.




...

The reason this pulled out was because the front head gasket was done in the past, with timserts.

...


Timeserts do not have to be replaced.




...

I drilled out one of them and realized that it has been done because the tap did no tapping, it went in very easily.

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WTH? Clarify. You drilled out an insert and tried to replace it with the same size insert? I'm sorry, but that's just plain stupid.




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I put a timesert in there anyways hoping it would hold.

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Extremely stupid.




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Are the headbolts that I installed still okay to use?

NO! Stop trying to fix this engine yourself and get help from someone who knows what they are doing. Either that or get ready to just throw it in the garbage, ok?

Advice you get here (from people who really know) requires varying degrees of mechanical knowledge to properly implement. You quite apparently do not have the required degree of said knowledge to effect this repair.

Attempting to save money by cutting corners is stupid and will cost money. Remember, the old rule still generally applies: fix now or fix more, fix it right or fix it again (probably for more money than the first time).

parts68
10-17-07, 09:22 PM
I have a saying and preach it to everyone.
Is it worth the amount saved to do it all over again.
If its something deep inside an engine that isnt real
easy to go in and out then ask yourself.
If I scrimped on it and saved $200,would I do the same job
over again for that amount?
That way of life normally cost me more in money but allows me to move
on to other "emergencys"