: 99 Deville over heating NOT HG I think



johnrgregory
07-09-07, 04:21 PM
A little history, The car had leaking HG when we bought it in Jan 2006, we had purchased the ext. warranty so the dealer fixed the HG in March 2006. The invoice stated that they used Timeserts. It has been running cool as a cucumber since then, until yesterday.
Yesterday we drove from Salt Lake City to Idaho. I check the temp a couple of times, 195-205. Amazingly cool for a car and engine this big. then about 130 miles from home I get a low coolant and hot coolant message, I had checked the coolant at my last fill up. The next 10 miles it ran hotter than normal but bad. On the way home, near a rest stop thank God, it got very hot, check engine and change oil came on. So I called my son in law to rent a trailer and tow it to the dealer, 120 miles away. The dealer can't look at it until Tues or Wed.

So my question. Not the HG again? right? I am hoping something less major like a pump or pump problem. The belt is fine, no visible coolant loss point other than the overflow when it was over heated, hoses look good. No steam from the tail pipes.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, I will update this thread when I get a diagnoses from the dealer. I am just curious what you folks think.

thanks
John

Ranger
07-09-07, 08:52 PM
It should not be a head gasket if the job was done correctly. More likely a crack in the radiator side tank or surge tank. Let us know what they find. Inquiring minds want to know.

johnrgregory
07-10-07, 10:03 AM
It should not be a head gasket if the job was done correctly. More likely a crack in the radiator side tank or surge tank. Let us know what they find. Inquiring minds want to know.

When I bought the car, the dealer had a hard time diagnosing the HG problem. With help from the forum, I helped them diagnosed the problem. I will share what they found out when they call me back. It happened so suddenly, it was strange. When it works right, I think the N* cooling system is awesome.
And thanks Ranger for all you contribute, I know your comments have helped me understand my car a lot more.

J

misfit6794
07-10-07, 10:16 AM
Thats a pretty curious situation. A dealer should be easily able to diagnose a head gasket problem with a cylinder leak test or an exhaust gas test, funny they had trouble. When they replaced the headgaskets did they do just one or both? Assuming they did both, and the timeserts didn't fail, I would start looking for leaks. Its not uncommon for the radiator to crack, like ranger said. Could also be a failed water pump or pulley. Definetly want to hear what the dealer says is the problem. Exactly how hot did it get?

johnrgregory
07-10-07, 01:03 PM
The last temp I saw on the dash was 255*
After that I called my SIL to rent a trailer to tow it home (125 miles) and put a gallon of water in it, started it and pulled it up on the trailer. We spent 4 hours at a rest stop in Idaho on I-15.
We dropped it off at the dealer Sunday night. So I had no appointment. They said they were back logged a couple of days.

misfit6794
07-10-07, 04:41 PM
That is some serious overheating, hot enough to cook the oil and render it useless. Was it pushing coolant out of the overflow? For it to lose a gallon and not have an obvious leak really sounds like a headgasket.


When they replaced the headgaskets did they do just one or both?

mmasseo
07-10-07, 05:19 PM
Hi there,
I think it is your head gasket.
I just had a head gasket go on my 1999 Seville.

My Symptoms:
My car was getting hot, it would cool, and I noticed I lost a gallon of coolant.
There was no smoke out of the exhaust, there were no noticeable drips of coolant

Problem:
The head gasket went (seemingly with no warning, I didn't know it was a head gasket until I had it looked at) The car would reach a certain temperature, then the exhaust would push the coolant out,
I ran the car with the cap off of the plastic expansion tank, I waited about 40 minutes, then I saw the coolant rise up out of the tank, and I saw lots of bubbles.

What prompted the investigation:
I was driving home from a long trip, and the car overheated.
I got home, let it cool. I noticed the coolant level was really low. I thought "Ok, I'll flush the system, put new coolant in"
I did that, then continued to use my car for a about 1.5 months like this. but after an hour of driving, my car would start to get hot, nearing overheat. Every other day I would notice I had to add some coolant.

About two weeks ago, I lost a lot of coolant and my car overheated, I was on the highway and couldn't make it off to a shoulder immediately.

I let it cool, filled up the coolant, drove to work the next day. After 20 mile,s I lost over a gallon of coolant. the coolant pushed out of the expansion tank.
This kept on happening, so the car was virtually unusable.
You cant see this happen as you drive, but if you pull over. pop the hood, you'll see liquid coming out of the cap, and hear gurgling.
Damn it, a head gasket was blown :(

I did a compression test and three cylinders were kind of weak. Cylinder 1 was 35 psi too low, 2 and 4 where about 15 psi too low (so it would seem like both head gaskets went)

The Dilemma:
Does a person.... 1) spend $3000 for new head gaskets, 2) $4500 for a re-manufactured engine installed 3) Junk the car ?

I'm still deciding on what to do.

In the meantime, I used what i thought to be "snake oil" , just for the hell of it....
I used bar's leaks head gasket repair. .... I'm not necessarily a believer in this, but hey, the motor is about done anyway, so there is no harm.

After 3 treatments (I really only think the last treatment worked, as I used a little bit of an unorthodox manner to account for cylinder(s) pushing coolant out)
If anyone has the same issue (coolant pushing out from a cylinder) then I'd be happy to detail the steps I used with bars leaks. It might work for you too.

So far after about 220 miles I have not lost an ounce of coolant. And the car has not gotten hot. The longest single ride I've taken , after putting bar's leaks in it, is about 2.5 hours. I don't have much faith in this, but at least i am driving to work again.

Like I said... I'm not sure what to do, but so for the car is working much better.

I'm sure your confused at this moment too. Some of us have had the same issue occur more than once. We feel your pain.

Good luck

I may go buy a CTS .... or a Dodge Magnum

johnrgregory
07-11-07, 10:21 AM
The dealer called yesterday afternoon and told me that the car would be looked at today, Wednesday. I will know more by tomorrow. I have an extended warranty, so any major repair should be covered. I will be really pissed if it is the HG AGAIN.

And to add insult to injury, I am incuring extra costs that I would rather not spend. About $150 for fuel and a trailer to bring the caddy home from my road trip. We had to borrow a car from the inlaws for my wife. I have to drive my Jeep GC 5.9 to work now, 72 miles round trip every other day (I car pool) The Jeep gets 14 MPG the Deville 23 MPG. I will keep this thread updated as I find out more. Like most of you, I am a curious guy. I check this forum everyday even tho' I have had no problems for 16 months. Until NOW!!:mad:


Hi there,
I think it is your head gasket.
I just had a head gasket go on my 1999 Seville.

My Symptoms:
My car was getting hot, it would cool, and I noticed I lost a gallon of coolant.
There was no smoke out of the exhaust, there were no noticeable drips of coolant

Problem:
The head gasket went (seemingly with no warning, I didn't know it was a head gasket until I had it looked at) The car would reach a certain temperature, then the exhaust would push the coolant out,
I ran the car with the cap off of the plastic expansion tank, I waited about 40 minutes, then I saw the coolant rise up out of the tank, and I saw lots of bubbles.

What prompted the investigation:
I was driving home from a long trip, and the car overheated.
I got home, let it cool. I noticed the coolant level was really low. I thought "Ok, I'll flush the system, put new coolant in"
I did that, then continued to use my car for a about 1.5 months like this. but after an hour of driving, my car would start to get hot, nearing overheat. Every other day I would notice I had to add some coolant.

About two weeks ago, I lost a lot of coolant and my car overheated, I was on the highway and couldn't make it off to a shoulder immediately.

I let it cool, filled up the coolant, drove to work the next day. After 20 mile,s I lost over a gallon of coolant. the coolant pushed out of the expansion tank.
This kept on happening, so the car was virtually unusable.
You cant see this happen as you drive, but if you pull over. pop the hood, you'll see liquid coming out of the cap, and hear gurgling.
Damn it, a head gasket was blown :(

I did a compression test and three cylinders were kind of weak. Cylinder 1 was 35 psi too low, 2 and 4 where about 15 psi too low (so it would seem like both head gaskets went)

The Dilemma:
Does a person.... 1) spend $3000 for new head gaskets, 2) $4500 for a re-manufactured engine installed 3) Junk the car ?

I'm still deciding on what to do.

In the meantime, I used what i thought to be "snake oil" , just for the hell of it....
I used bar's leaks head gasket repair. .... I'm not necessarily a believer in this, but hey, the motor is about done anyway, so there is no harm.

After 3 treatments (I really only think the last treatment worked, as I used a little bit of an unorthodox manner to account for cylinder(s) pushing coolant out)
If anyone has the same issue (coolant pushing out from a cylinder) then I'd be happy to detail the steps I used with bars leaks. It might work for you too.

So far after about 220 miles I have not lost an ounce of coolant. And the car has not gotten hot. The longest single ride I've taken , after putting bar's leaks in it, is about 2.5 hours. I don't have much faith in this, but at least i am driving to work again.

Like I said... I'm not sure what to do, but so for the car is working much better.

I'm sure your confused at this moment too. Some of us have had the same issue occur more than once. We feel your pain.

Good luck

I may go buy a CTS .... or a Dodge Magnum

johnrgregory
07-11-07, 10:22 AM
Yes it was pushing coolant out of the overflow.


That is some serious overheating, hot enough to cook the oil and render it useless. Was it pushing coolant out of the overflow? For it to lose a gallon and not have an obvious leak really sounds like a headgasket.

misfit6794
07-11-07, 11:52 AM
Now it really sounds like a headgasket.

johnrgregory
07-11-07, 06:13 PM
According to the dealer, nothing is wrong with it. They did all of the head gasket tests, so I was told, drove it over 30 minutes and it never went above 210*

Salt Lake valley is pretty flat, so I told them to keep it and have someone drive it to Park City, That is a long steep climb. That should be a good test of the cooling system. It is 101* outside today and the same is expected tomorrow.

I will keep you informed.

John

misfit6794
07-11-07, 06:22 PM
Thats pretty strange, to only overheat once. I would have them change the oil since it got baked. Maybe there's a clog somewhere in the cooling system? That would explain why it only did it once.

Ranger
07-11-07, 07:41 PM
Salt Lake valley is pretty flat, so I told them to keep it and have someone drive it to Park City, That is a long steep climb. That should be a good test of the cooling system. It is 101* outside today and the same is expected tomorrow.
That'll put her to the test for sure.

Raze
07-11-07, 08:26 PM
Have you had any coolant system work done beyond the HGs, like waterpump, radiator, thermostat, coolant pressure cap, coolant flush with new bars leak pellets in the lower rad hose so the water pump would chew them up or just toss them in the surge tank? If they just tossed them in the surge tank you could have ended up with a clogged line which would allow coolant back to the tank but that's as far as it would go until the pressure got high enough to blow it out the tank onto the ground...

I'd have them check/replace the thermostat to see if it was stuck shut, or the pressure cap to make sure it was holding pressure, mine failed and i was blowing coolant out like crazy, heated the rad up enough to crack a side tank and voila I had one prodigious mess...

johnrgregory
07-12-07, 09:54 AM
When I first bought it I had it flushed by a radiator shop. They tested everything and said there was a slight indication of exhaust in the fluid, but not enough to confirm it, more of a hint they said. I also put the GM pellets in it then. It over heated so I took it to the dealer and they replaced the cap with a OEM one that has the arrow pointing to the overflow tube. It still over heated, but not on on the flat, just when climbing hills.
15 months ago I had the same problem with this service department. I need to find the invoice at home and see if they did both sides or not. I do remember seeing timeserts listed on the parts used list.
What really annoys me is the service rep. He called me and said, "I drove it for 30 minutes, never got above 210, nothing is wrong, want to pick it up tonight?" The car got to 255*,cook the oil and I towed it 125 miles to his dealership for them to do an inadequate job of diagnosis? The extended warranty company paid them $3500 to fix this last time. And here I am back at square one with them. @#$%^:rant2:


Have you had any coolant system work done beyond the HGs, like waterpump, radiator, thermostat, coolant pressure cap, coolant flush with new bars leak pellets in the lower rad hose so the water pump would chew them up or just toss them in the surge tank? If they just tossed them in the surge tank you could have ended up with a clogged line which would allow coolant back to the tank but that's as far as it would go until the pressure got high enough to blow it out the tank onto the ground...

I'd have them check/replace the thermostat to see if it was stuck shut, or the pressure cap to make sure it was holding pressure, mine failed and i was blowing coolant out like crazy, heated the rad up enough to crack a side tank and voila I had one prodigious mess...

johnrgregory
07-16-07, 12:15 PM
They drove the car up a hill and sure enough it over heated. When they got back to the dealership it was making a sound like a deisel engine. They want to pully the engine to diagnose it. I told them to make sure the extended warranty I purchased from them covered everything. That was Friday afternoon.

John


According to the dealer, nothing is wrong with it. They did all of the head gasket tests, so I was told, drove it over 30 minutes and it never went above 210*

Salt Lake valley is pretty flat, so I told them to keep it and have someone drive it to Park City, That is a long steep climb. That should be a good test of the cooling system. It is 101* outside today and the same is expected tomorrow.

I will keep you informed.

John

misfit6794
07-16-07, 05:39 PM
I think you either need to find a different mechanic or sell the car. Obviously the dealer is pretty incompentent, they give the car a clean bill of health, then it overheats. Now whatever damage they have done to the car by driving it while its overheating (and for it to sound like a diesel is REALLY bad) you are stuck with the consequences, maybe not financially but its a pain in the ass to have the car sitting at a mechanics. Its time to start talking to the service manager about his not so intelligent mechanics.

johnrgregory
07-16-07, 05:57 PM
I agree misfit. Once I have it back, I will talk with the service manager, in a nice way of course, but I am very concerned about they having such a tough time diagnosing it. Wednesday, "nothing wrong with the car, come pick it up" Thursday, "we need to pull the engine to diagnose the problem"

Since the HG was replaced and the bolts timserted in March 2006, I have faithly check the coolant and oil weekly. I have changed the oil every 4000 miles as per my maintence agreement. I could not have done anything to prevent this.


I think you either need to find a different mechanic or sell the car. Obviously the dealer is pretty incompentent, they give the car a clean bill of health, then it overheats. Now whatever damage they have done to the car by driving it while its overheating (and for it to sound like a diesel is REALLY bad) you are stuck with the consequences, maybe not financially but its a pain in the ass to have the car sitting at a mechanics. Its time to start talking to the service manager about his not so intelligent mechanics.

samdun124
06-01-10, 12:53 PM
i have the same issue being able to drive my car for 1 hour before it start to overheat the thing is it only overheat while driven two day ago i let it idle for 1 30 min never reach above 220 stay mainly at 209 with temp out side being 100.00 degree so far i have replace rad twice ,thermostat three time, water pump and just replace the fans now it overheated once and no bubbling in take it just pour out so dont know if this is good are bad thing the only different between your and mind is if i slow down or out it in park sometime the temp drop back down to normal and will stay there until i start driven again i now looking to see if my high fan are coming on i know the low kick on but dont hear high kick on like if u are running the ac. what method did u use for the bar gasket leak please explain.....

Ranger
06-01-10, 01:02 PM
i have the same issue being able to drive my car for 1 hour before it start to overheat the thing is it only overheat while driven two day ago i let it idle for 1 30 min never reach above 220 stay mainly at 209 with temp out side being 100.00 degree so far i have replace rad twice ,thermostat three time, water pump and just replace the fans now it overheated once and no bubbling in take it just pour out so dont know if this is good are bad thing the only different between your and mind is if i slow down or out it in park sometime the temp drop back down to normal and will stay there until i start driven again i now looking to see if my high fan are coming on i know the low kick on but dont hear high kick on like if u are running the ac. what method did u use for the bar gasket leak please explain.....
Why did you do that? Was the radiator leaking? What was wrong with the second one? Was the pump leaking? Where the first two thermostats bad? Or are you just throwing parts at it hoping one sticks and solves the overheating problem?

larrya51
06-01-10, 03:49 PM
The symptoms on my 2000 SLS were EXACTLY the same as yours. Someone had replaced the rad, w/p, fans, and stat also. It was indeed the HG. Test for exhaust in the cooling system, though, to be sure. My money's on head gaskets. Sorry. We all feel your pain.

edb150
06-02-10, 10:20 PM
Hard to believe the dealer dident drive it uphill to put aload on it? When they timeserted it did they do all 20 holes or only those that were compromised? If they only did some then you know where the problem lies. I remember reading a sevice manual or procedure that says to repair the bad holes and the ones adjacent to the bad holes as they may be compromised and doing the work of 2. Seems crazy to not do all 20 since your already there.

Ranger
06-02-10, 10:45 PM
If it is a warranty job, that's all GM will pay for. Penny wise and dollar foolish.