: Transmission Fluid



Ekindler0584
07-05-07, 12:17 PM
Does anyone know of a manufacturer of a true group IV ATF, besides amsoil???



Thanks,
Ed

AJxtcman
07-05-07, 04:22 PM
http://www.kendallmotoroil.com/NR/rdonlyres/1BD89E9E-7418-4C1C-BADF-0EA34AE747CD/0/K_dexron_VI_ATF.pdf


just a little info
.
DEXRON®-VI ATF
General Motors Powertrain has recently upgraded to DEXRON®-VI ATF with the start of 2006 vehicle production.

Current and prior models that had used DEXRON®-III must now only use DEXRON®-VI.

All 2006 and future models that use DEXRON®-VI are to be serviced with DEXRON®-VI fluid only.

DEXRON®-VI is an improvement over DEXRON®-III in the following areas:

DEXRON®-VI

Extended Factory Fill For Life---160,000 km (100,000 mi) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*---80,000 km (50,000 mi) (Severe Use) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*

Clutch Friction Stability----Improved 100%

Clutch Durability Due To Fluid----Improved 120%

Oil Film Thickness----Increased 20%

Fluid Oxidation----Improved 100%

Foam/Aeration----Improved 150%

Shear Stability----Improved 200%


* These ATF change intervals remain the same as DEXRON®-III for the time being.

clarkz71
07-05-07, 07:36 PM
I have the new Dexron VI in my Eldo. Shifting was much improved over the original fluid (55K at the time) .

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/clarkz71/E-bay008.jpg

msta293412
07-06-07, 10:48 AM
Hey clakz71, when you say shifting was improved, do you mean smoother or more aggresively? Also could we you use the B&M transmission fluid for firmer shifts in our trannies?

dkozloski
07-06-07, 12:15 PM
I had a B&M Hydrostick transmission in a '58 Chevy back in the early '60s. It worked great and B&M has been building good stuff ever since.

clarkz71
07-06-07, 12:32 PM
Hey clarkz71, when you say shifting was improved, do you mean smoother or more aggresively? Also could we you use the B&M transmission fluid for firmer shifts in our trannies?

I mean smoother. I have a bad input speed sensor (code P056/OBD I) and the shifting is more firm then stock with that problem. The Dexron VI made it shift noticeably smoother.

MonzaRacer
07-07-07, 11:28 PM
what you are actually feeling is the fact that the older fluid has been allowing the cluch packs to shudder but at high frequency so the new stuff has a friction modifier to help with that and its a synthetic too.
As for Amsoil I wouldnt put that garbage in my worst enemies lawn mover as i pushed him and it over a cliff.

Ranger
07-07-07, 11:40 PM
WOW, where were you when Steve was touting it? Now THAT would have gotten interesting.

clarkz71
07-08-07, 09:00 AM
what you are actually feeling is the fact that the older fluid has been allowing the cluch packs to shudder but at high frequency so the new stuff has a friction modifier to help with that and its a synthetic too.


I don't know if my clutch packs were doing anything, but if you know cadillacs
you know that a bad transaxle input speed sensor will cause even a new transaxle with new fluid to shift firm,
as the failure increases line pressure by default. That's what I'm feeling.
As a side note, the original fluid only had 55000 miles and looked as red/pink as new fluid.

.

Patrick7997
07-08-07, 10:35 AM
LOL!!!

MonzaRacer, don't sugar-coat it, how do you REALLY feel about Amsoil????

AJxtcman
07-08-07, 11:59 AM
Hey clakz71, when you say shifting was improved, do you mean smoother or more aggresively? Also could we you use the B&M transmission fluid for firmer shifts in our trannies?

What is B&M's blue trans fluid?
When was it developed?
How many times has it been updated?
Who makes it?
.
Mopar had to change the fluid in the early 90's because of clutch chatter. They updated it many times before they got a fluid that works. It started out as 7176D. Then it was 7176E. Then it was ATF+3 and know it is ATF+4.
Mopars also use in just a couple of cars Mitsubishi Transmissions. Mopar say that the latest version of ATF+4 can be used, But Mits trans fluid has a strong odor of friction modifier. I have always used the Mits fluid in the Mits trans.
.
GM had a fluid that worked OK. While many other car companies had trany problems in FWD cars GM was doing pretty well. Petro-Canada with GM developed Dexron VI. This fluid smells like it has a lot of friction modifier in it. This is a far superior fluid over the last. GM really never needed to fix the fluid like some other companies did.
.
You have been running an out dated fluid in you car. You had no per say fluid problems. Now you have a high dollar fluid in your car and it will work so much better.
Look at the specs I listed before.


http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/transmissions/DEXRON-VI-Service_Fill_Release.doc
http://www.petro-canada.ca/pdfs/IM_8017_E_v14.pdf

clarkz71
07-08-07, 12:26 PM
I believe he compared it to sand.

C66 Racing
07-15-07, 12:46 PM
Does anyone know of a manufacturer of a true group IV ATF, besides amsoil???

Thanks,
Ed

Ed,
I would have said Mobil 1, but now I'm not so sure as it appears they are now using a significant portion of Group III basestock in their mainline Mobil 1 motor oil. Redline uses a Group V basestock and I've never been able to confirm what Royal Purple uses. I suspect that they use a Group III/IV blend, but they are very tight lipped about their basestocks.

FYI, the AMSOIL ATF (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ATFPB.htm) is now labeled by AMSOIL to be suitable for both Dexron III and VI requirements. This is the fluid I just put in my 06 CTS-V, and have been running my 02 Z06 on the track for years (without any tranny failures). :cheers:

100
07-17-07, 11:17 PM
This is a very dumb question, but... I thought III = 3 and IV = 4, V = 5, and VI = 6 (am I correct on this?), soooo, where are DEXRON-IV and DEXRON-V? GM didn't like them or what?



DEXRONŽ-VI ATF
General Motors Powertrain has recently upgraded to DEXRONŽ-VI ATF with the start of 2006 vehicle production.

Current and prior models that had used DEXRONŽ-III must now only use DEXRONŽ-VI.

All 2006 and future models that use DEXRONŽ-VI are to be serviced with DEXRONŽ-VI fluid only.

DEXRONŽ-VI is an improvement over DEXRONŽ-III in the following areas:

DEXRONŽ-VI

Extended Factory Fill For Life---160,000 km (100,000 mi) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*---80,000 km (50,000 mi) (Severe Use) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*

Clutch Friction Stability----Improved 100%

Clutch Durability Due To Fluid----Improved 120%

Oil Film Thickness----Increased 20%

Fluid Oxidation----Improved 100%

Foam/Aeration----Improved 150%

Shear Stability----Improved 200%


* These ATF change intervals remain the same as DEXRONŽ-III for the time being.

C66 Racing
07-17-07, 11:23 PM
This is a very dumb question, but... I thought III = 3 and IV = 4, V = 5, and VI = 6 (am I correct on this?), soooo, where are DEXRON-IV and DEXRON-V? GM didn't like them or what?

Your recollection of Roman Numerals is correct... and I have no idea what GM did with the numbers IV and V. I've never seen any reference to Dexron IV or V (other than a few typos of people who meant the new VI but assumed GM went to IV).

AJxtcman
07-18-07, 07:33 AM
DEXRON®-VI
Global Service-Fill Specification


figure 1

33278


In early 2005, General Motors released a newly developed automatic transmission fluid (ATF) for the factory fill of all GM Powertrain stepped-gear automatic transmissions. The new fluid provides significantly improved performance in terms of friction durability, viscosity stability, aeration and foam control and oxidation resistance. In addition, the fluid has the potential to enable improved fuel economy and extended drain intervals. Because the performance of the new fluid far exceeded that of the DEXRON-III service-fill fluids available at the time, it became necessary to upgrade the DEXRON service-fill specification in order to ensure that similar fluids were available in the market for service situations. This latest upgrade to the service- fill specification is designated DEXRON-VI (fig. 1).



Since General Motors introduced the first ATF service-fill specification in 1949, it has been necessary to upgrade the specification periodically.

The upgrading process ensures that available service-fill fluids are of an appropriate quality for use in transmissions that have been designed around the factory-fill fluid performance.

TIP: As with previous upgrades, DEXRON-VI fluids are designed to be backward compatible with earlier transmission hardware. More importantly, earlier type fluids are not forward compatible with transmission hardware that was designed to use DEXRON-VI fluid.

DEXRON-III is not compatible with the most recently designed transmissions, and the use of these earlier type fluids could result in transmission damage. All current calibrations and certification tests are now conducted with DEXRON-VI ATF. DEXRON-III fluids should not be used for those applications where the owner manual recommends the use of DEXRON-VI.

TIP: GM does not license or support obsolete ATF specifications or the use of fluids that are being marketed against cancelled specifications.

All DEXRON-III licenses expired at the end of 2006 and will not be renewed. Beyond that date, GM will support only DEXRON-VI fluids for use in Hydra-Matic transmissions. Avoid fluids sold in the market after that date bearing claims such as “suitable for use in
DEXRON-III applications” or similar wording. DEXRON-VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications.

The use of unlicensed fluids and/or non-GM approved aftermarket additives may prove detrimental to transmission performance and void warranty coverage.
- Thanks to Angela Willis

Precaution: DEXRON-VI in Manual Transmissions

When DEXRON-III is indicated as the fluid fill for manual transmissions and transfer cases, DO NOT use DEXRON-VI. Instead, use GM Manual Transmission Fluid p/n 88861800 in these components.

TIP: Refer to PIP3836B (Feb. 2007).

If the manual transmission or transfer case indicates use of DEXRON-VI, then, of course, it should be used.

Purging Equipment

Before filling your bulk fluid equipment with DEXRON-VI, be sure to purge the old oil from it.

Also, be sure to purge your J-45096 Transflow machine before using it with DEXRON-VI.

AJxtcman
07-18-07, 07:36 AM
Subject: Manual Transmission Fluid Usage In 2007 And Prior Manual Transmissions And Transfer Cases - keywords case fluid manual transmission transfer #PIP3836B - (02/05/2007)


Models: 2007 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks

2007 and Prior HUMMER H2

2007 HUMMER H3

2007 and Prior Saturn Passenger Cars and Trucks



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This PI is superseded to add a note under concerns. Please discard PIP3836A.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Use of manual transmission fluid part number 88861800 U.S. (88861801 Canada) in place of Dexron III.

Important Note: If the vehicle owners manual lists Dexron VI as the recommended transmission, transaxle or transfer case fluid disregard any information supplied in this PI. Use eSI and or the vehicle owners manual to determine what type of fluid should be used prior to referencing the below information

Recommendation/Instructions:
Manual Transmission fluid part number 88861800 U.S. (88861801 Canada) is currently available through GMSPO. Current and past model vehicles listed above with either a manual transmission or transfer case that REQUIRE Dexron III should use the above listed manual transmission fluid. This fluid is a direct replacement for Dexron III in manual transmissions and transfer cases. DO NOT use Dexron VI in place of the manual transmission fluid in any manual transmissions or transfer cases as a failure may result.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

jadcock
07-18-07, 11:01 AM
I read that to say that the DEXRON-VI is fully compatible with DEXON-III, meaning that when doing a normal drain/fill service on a DEXRON-III car, no additional steps are necessary (like trying to pump out the old fluid, etc), correct? Simply drain as much DEXRON-III as you can, and fill with a like amount of DEXRON-VI?

ibarria
07-18-07, 12:55 PM
Autozone has Castrol Dexron6 for $4.99
I have a 2000 Deville, can I make the change from mercon-dexronIII to this one?
Has anybody poured a Transmission fix Lucas just for extra protection?
what do guys think of it?
my Caddy has just turned 100K

clarkz71
07-18-07, 01:02 PM
Dexron VI supercedes all previous fluids in all GM automatic transmissions/transaxles

AJ, I like my picture better.


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/clarkz71/E-bay008.jpg

clarkz71
07-18-07, 01:09 PM
I read that to say that the DEXRON-VI is fully compatible with DEXON-III, meaning that when doing a normal drain/fill service on a DEXRON-III car, no additional steps are necessary (like trying to pump out the old fluid, etc), correct? Simply drain as much DEXRON-III as you can, and fill with a like amount of DEXRON-VI?

You can do that J, but it's very easy to pull the top line, attach a fitting/hose and purge the transaxle completely.
Thats what I did.

ibarria
07-18-07, 01:10 PM
but I suppose there will be a huge difference between GM and Castrol brands..
would there be much difference in quality? besides price

clarkz71
07-18-07, 01:16 PM
GM parts direct is where I ordered mine. $14.68 a gallon, ( $3.67 a qt)

Click on add to cart to go to their web site.



http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/images/no_image.gifGM PART # 88861045
CATEGORY: Vehicle Care
PACK QTY: 4
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $24.77
OUR PRICE: $14.68

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/images/add_to_cart_btn.gif (http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?addtocart=1&addpartnumber=88861045&singlepart=1&partnumber=88861045)DESCRIPTION: FLUID

Cadillacboy
07-18-07, 03:40 PM
OK,I will use Dex VI when hitting 50 K miles in my Fleetwood Brougham

Douglass Harroun
07-21-07, 11:33 AM
Just wondering- to pump out /drain the fluid, do you attach a hose to the removed trans line or to the radiator?
Doug

clarkz71
07-21-07, 07:30 PM
Just wondering- to pump out /drain the fluid, do you attach a hose to the removed trans line or to the radiator?
Doug

You have to install a brass fitting in the top port of the cooler(radiator). That's the output/return.
Keep in mind that only about 5 qts comes out this way.
To purge all the fluid use a gallon jug so it's easy to measure 4 qts.
After pumping out 4 qts, turn off the engine and add 4 qts fresh fluid.
Start the engine and pump out 4 more qts. Do this until clean fluid is
coming out. It help to have clear tubing when you do this.
I ran 16 qts through mine to make sure I cleaned it out real well.

Patrick7997
07-26-07, 08:31 AM
I just did mine exactly how clarkz71 recommends, and it worked out great....

clarkz71
07-26-07, 12:37 PM
I just did mine exactly how clarkz71 recommends, and it worked out great....

It is a very easy way to renew the transaxle fluid. Glad it worked out OK.

How much fluid did you end up running through it ?

What kind of fluid did you use.

Seven1
07-31-07, 02:38 PM
You have to install a brass fitting in the top port of the cooler(radiator). That's the output/return.
Keep in mind that only about 5 qts comes out this way.
To purge all the fluid use a gallon jug so it's easy to measure 4 qts.
After pumping out 4 qts, turn off the engine and add 4 qts fresh fluid.
Start the engine and pump out 4 more qts. Do this until clean fluid is
coming out. It help to have clear tubing when you do this.
I ran 16 qts through mine to make sure I cleaned it out real well.

By output/return you mean back to the tranny after cooled by the radiator.

clarkz71
07-31-07, 03:15 PM
By output/return you mean back to the tranny after cooled by the radiator.

Yes, that's correct.

Seven1
08-01-07, 02:40 PM
Yes, that's correct.

Do you happen to know the gm part # for that line/hose???

clarkz71
08-01-07, 02:48 PM
The hose is just standard 3/8 id clear hose you can
get at any hardware store or Home Depot.

The fitting for the radiator I don't remember but
it measures 5/8. I would just take a wrench with
you and try a few fittings unless someone else
knows the size. Or go to a junk yard and get a
piece of cooler line off a wreck.

Patrick7997
08-03-07, 07:44 PM
Clarkz71, it took me like 18 quarts....

I just kept doing it over & over until it was coming out bright red and clean... so I may have overkilled it a little, but... it worked.

I got plumbing fittings and made my own fitting for that return line....

I hate to sound so ignorant, but there's a difference between 3/8ths pipe thread, 3/8ths compression... and there's a third kind.

I'm not 100% sure what the difference is. I bought all 3... the correct one had a smooth unthreaded portion sticking out, beyond the threads, so I dremeled that off... and then it threaded into the hole pretty nicely, and didn't leak. Then I got a female-to-female adapter, and threaded the 3/8 inch male fitting into one side, and a 3/8ths barb to the other side... then I simply put a 3/8ths inch clear plastic line onto the barb....

I apologize, I wish I knew more about plumbing... someone who knows what I'm trying to say can probably clear up my muddy explanation... but I trial & errored it, and got a combo that worked pretty nice. If anyone is real interested, I'll take pictures of what I made....

It didn't leak, and worked great. If you use plenty of plastic line, you can sit in the car, start the car, and have the gallon jug with the line feeding into it right next to the open door, so you can see it easily, and shut the car off...

The tranny fluid will come thru the line real fast with the car running, so stay alert, it fills the gallon jug real fast.... Also, heh heh, if you lose control of the line, the force of the tranny fluid will cause it to fly around and spray tranny fluid all over your garage.... so, don't let the line fly loose, or you'll end up cleaning your whole garage, like I had to....

Edit: whoops, I see you said 5/8ths in your post.... now I'm not sure if I used 5/8 or 3/8... I'm sorta thinking it was 3/8ths, but maybe I should check to make sure....

clarkz71
08-03-07, 10:31 PM
No, your correct. I used the same kind of fitting and I had to cut some of it off too.
It might have been a 3/8 flare fitting.

tateos
08-24-07, 08:26 PM
So You Pump Out Around 4 Quarts, Add 4 Quarts To The Dipstick/fill Area, And Repeat 3 More Times, And This Is Similar To A Flush Job?

clarkz71
08-25-07, 06:09 AM
You are replacing all the fluid, without the risk of damaging
the transaxle which can happen with a flush machine.

Patrick7997
08-25-07, 01:09 PM
Clark is right... don't confuse this with flushing.... you are pumping out and replacing with new....

I finally got off my butt and took pictures of my setup.

In the first photo, you will see the unit all together, ready to work. The "dome" shaped piece of brass is what I dremeled off... I'm told that's 3/8ths inch flare fitting, is what it's called... so, that should hopefully clear up my explanation a little...

The second photo, I unscrewed all the pieces from each other, so you can see the individual pieces. The right most piece is a barb, with the plastic line pushed onto it... my big roll of plastic line is partly visible above.

Hope this helps!

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/Patrick7997/DSC07793.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/Patrick7997/DSC07795.jpg