: How to make an Oldsmobile 350 look stock?



Night Wolf
07-02-07, 09:19 AM
Well, as many of you know, our Tampa meet at the end of the month is gonna have the legendary race between Jonas and I. It's like the biggest thing on the site, and will be remembered for years and video taped from every angle.

Anyway, I was thinking how my old 307 is too close of a match for the HT4100, so I started looking into other options. I was going to get a '74 472 and build it up a bit, but money is tight and by the time i get done with accessiories and transmission, it would be wayyy too much money.

So I ws looking in the paper, and a guy is selling his mildy built Olds 350 out of his '72 Cutlass cause he is building a 455 for it. He said it has around 300hp but still idles really smooth.... only $500 and he isn't too far either. It would be a direct swap for my 307 too!!!!

I want to know the best way to make it look stock in my '89 Fleetwood Brougham, from single exit mild exhaust to old grungy looking valve covers, I don't want Joans, or anyone else that will be witnessing this race to know that I don't have a 307 in the car.

Also the 200R4 should be fine with 300hp in this heavy of a car, right? atleast for a while until I can afford a hi-po rebuild....

Thanks! I can't wait, I am sooo excited about this, but I want it to be a race to remember!

Jonas McFeely
07-02-07, 09:48 AM
More power to you if you can buy and install it in 3 weeks, but that wouldnt be fair. :thepan:


Biggest thing on the site? Heh, maybe.

I bet the CTS-V guys are ROFLing

90Brougham350
07-02-07, 09:52 AM
I don't want Joans, or anyone else that will be witnessing this race to know that I don't have a 307 in the car.

Yet you posted this in a public forum for everyone to see?


Also the 200R4 should be fine with 300hp in this heavy of a car, right? atleast for a while until I can afford a hi-po rebuild....

It'll last a short time, maybe a month or three. Put the pedal down to the floor once, when you race. Be very kind to it after that.

Brian

Jonas McFeely
07-02-07, 09:54 AM
^^^ I dont think he's serious. Or at least i hope hes not...:eek:

Night Wolf
07-02-07, 09:59 AM
I've got an engine stand, and an engine lift, and the $500... just gotta find a way to get it here... he said he may be able to use his work truck and deliver it.

jayoldschool
07-02-07, 10:07 AM
They are the same engine (physically, externally). Just use all the accessories from the stock 307, and no one will tell the difference. However, that 72 350 makes nowhere near 300hp, unless he has done some serious work to it.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-02-07, 12:30 PM
I think Rick's kidding. Atleast he sounds like he is.

Destroyer
07-02-07, 03:24 PM
I think Rick's kidding. Atleast he sounds like he is.Does seem a little excessive to beat a 4.1, no?.

RocketFast321
07-02-07, 03:39 PM
They are the same engine (physically, externally). Just use all the accessories from the stock 307, and no one will tell the difference.

very true
http://www.oldspower.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19130

96Fleetwood
07-02-07, 04:10 PM
Does seem a little excessive to beat a 4.1, no?.

haha, so true! I am going to have to drive down there in the Wagon and get in on this race.... j/k


That was a great link! If I find a cheap 350/400 with good tranny I am going to put it in the wagon one weekend.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-02-07, 05:17 PM
Does seem a little excessive to beat a 4.1, no?.


Haha, how about doing a one off swap....L99 4.3L V8 from a Caprice into the Brougham?

Night Wolf
07-02-07, 06:30 PM
lol, nah I am just kidding...

It was just a joke kinda going along with Jonas's racing threads :)

But..... that link with the info is great, I bookmarked it for future reference :)

96Fleetwood
07-02-07, 10:15 PM
But..... that link with the info is great, I bookmarked it for future reference :)

Ditto, I am serious about it too... the wagon could have a 350 or 403 by the end of the summer :thumbsup:

N0DIH
07-03-07, 02:12 AM
My 85 Cutlass got a 350 transplant. Not a soul could tell the difference unless they were WELL versed in Olds. (ok, take a glance at the oil pressure idiot light sender and look for 5L, 350, 403, etc....).

But I put on stock black 307 parts back on, 82 Olds 307 intake, painted black, etc and no one was the wiser.... And it ran a WHOLE lot better...

Search out my 307 threads, I have put in some of my "hi po" (stop laughing!) tips for the 307. It CAN run decent, I would bet my $$ on the 307 over a 4.1L.

I did a lot of carb work on mine, got it really running sweet and quite responsive. I did use a 83 carb from a 307, as my stock one got wrenched by a mechanic and crushed the TPS sensor area so I could not adjust it.

You can toss in a 85 4.1L axle (stock 3.42's) and the 307 will REALLY wake up..... You can do a gear swap in your own axle for $300 ish.... Toss in a looser converter will help a lot too, get a V6 converter from a light car.

ewill3rd
07-03-07, 06:32 AM
I put an old Olds 350 in front of a 200 TH before.
It didn't last long. :D
I imagine the 4 speed version would die even faster ;)

They are the same engine, although there could be slight difference in the exhaust... although I woudln't bet on it.

Night Wolf
07-03-07, 07:34 AM
I am actually quite impressed with the throttle response on the 307... it really improved when I did the trick that allows the secondaries to fully open, as well as get my 14" Edelbrock open element air filter on there.... Not bad at all considering the plugs are pretty well used up, wires, cap and rotor are really old too. New reman carb though helps alot.

The 307 is a great engine... at the time, and given the limited choices of enignes, I think it was the best to put in these cars... I just think the 180HP version should have been used.

As far as the trans, it was rebuilt a few years back by a very good local shop back home.

I am pretty serious about the Olds 350 or 403 swap too, as much as I'd like a big block Cad in there, it would just be so much more easy and cheaper to put an Olds in... and of GM engines, I am quite fond of Oldsmobile.... right behind Cadillac :)

My only gripe with the 403 is the webbed main bearing issue.... why? Either way, just gotta see what will come up when the time comes, for the time being, the 307 runs great and gets the job done.

96Fleetwood
07-03-07, 09:51 AM
I am actually quite impressed with the throttle response on the 307

Never ever ever ever utter that again... the 307, 425, and 4100 were slouches in every respect... (although the 307 and 425 are reliable).

;)

I am about to take the rearview mirror off my wagon because it is so slow I don't want to see the backed up traffic behind me :crybaby:

N0DIH
07-03-07, 10:20 AM
My THM200C lasted 90K with a 350 Olds in front of it and the 307 185K before that, and honestly, we pulled the pan once, around 50K to put in synthetic. I never expected it to last past 100K with a V8. It was always a good shifting trans, never lazy, never had bad manners. I honestly liked it. I never thought I was say that either....

I was religious about readjusting the TV cable, and the car was not abused. Well, ok, I did that 400-600 foot burnout that one time with the 350 and stock 2.14's and got the speedo around 80 mph smoking one tire (yes, I know that is 160 mph minus actual vehicle speed on that tire....), but else it more or less was taken well care of. The 85 THM200C was quite admirable for reliability.

If a 4.8L or 5.3L GM V8 can be made to run, there is no reason a 307 can't be. Everyone cries it is not possible, but it is. The bore is smaller than the magic 4" that all the magazines preach, but that doesn't mean a lot if as me. Pontiac 350's had a 3.88 bore and did fine pumping out over 320 hp, and in quite built trim over 700 hp, with a puny little 3.88 bore.... Airflow is king, not who made the engine.

Yes, the stock Olds 307 exhaust bolts up to a 350 IF, you DON'T have the tubular steel exhaust manifolds (tubulars DO bolt, but they don't match). They are too small and do not port match, you'll have exhaust leaks around the center 2 ports near the bolt holes. The G-Bodies had them, but I don't know if any B/D Bodies got them.

A lot of people have cried the 403's weak main webs are bad. But honestly I have never seen one fail because of it, even built. If you are making enough hp to make the block break, you probably should have filled it with hardbloc anyway. If you look closely at the Gen IV GM V8, you will find they went back to windowing the block as compared to the Gen III V8. I wouldn't pay it any mind unless you are winding well over 6000 rpm regularly. Most people with a heavy sled like a D Body don't anyway. The cam you need to make good low end torque is gonna be in the 200-210 duration @ 0.050 max anyway.

I do mods like pressing in the secondary fuel supply tubes down to 1in, relocating the fuel supply on the secondaries to just below the secondary air valves instead of above, a relocated accelerator pump arm position to make a faster pump shot, some accelerator pump mods to make it a fuller shot so it has more cc available (not necessarily MORE shot, but more available for a longer stroke, as the stock 307 is fairly limited and can be lean on pump shot), tune the secondaries with a WBO2 (I didn't, but used the NBO2 to shoot for 0.88v) with different secondary rods and used the lowest letter hangar you can, or you can get a higher letter and drill a second hole to move the rods up, this is key to make the rods uncover the fuel faster, as the stock rods are quite fat (lean) and take a while to get fuel moving. Mine ran fantastic when I was done. I set up also using 442 specs on the carb. Higher float also has some benefits of moving fuel faster, as it is closer to the emulsion tubes and responds quicker. The stock settings are setup to be quite lazy. 442 specs are better for that. I monitored my M/C duty cycle and it was stable and on part with 50% where it should be, so I know I didn't do anything to harm emissions.

Read Doe Roe's book on the Q-Jet. Most things that apply to the regular Q-Jet DO apply to the E4M carbs the 81-up 4BBL carbonator cars all have. It is a great carb, rivals EFI for throttle response and drivability.

My opinion is there is no substitue for cubic inches, whether high tech EFI or carb, the more inches the better. The changes you make to a larger engine will give you more hp than the same mod on a smaller engine. Efficient heads are key. Good exhaust is key. Good intake is key. For ever time the air flow has to change directions, the slower it gets. The 307 heads are probably some of the highest velocity heads GM ever made. That is why they do so well at cruise for economy. My 307 got 27.3 mpg a few times. I have heard of many people with 307's doing that, OD and non OD cars alike. I have NEVER heard a RWD 4.1L do that. Maybe it can, but I haven't got to play with one. My mom's 85 Fleetwood got better mpg in D than OD. It was just too weak.

RocketFast321
07-03-07, 05:49 PM
Never ever ever ever utter that again... the 307, 425, and 4100 were slouches in every respect...


:lol: My ragged out 307 in my wagon is pretty perky in first gear. I even got one tire to chirp when i was pulling out into traffic. But lost about $3 of gas and the wagon burn some oil up also.


Friend: Will your car is blowing alot of blue smoke.
Me: That means it's getting oil


I would have had my motor looked over by a local shop to see if it can be rebuilt, or whatever. But my water heater went out $500, and one of my tires on my grand am had a splilt in the side wall $85, and i have to replace the other back one since they are the same/

Night Wolf
07-03-07, 06:52 PM
Never ever ever ever utter that again... the 307, 425, and 4100 were slouches in every respect... (although the 307 and 425 are reliable).

;)

I am about to take the rearview mirror off my wagon because it is so slow I don't want to see the backed up traffic behind me :crybaby:

no, I mean when in park and if it is revved... it is responsive.

The 4.6 OHC in the Town Car is kind of the oppisite