: Alternating Types of OIL



Roswell256
04-09-04, 08:05 AM
I was going to try a different type of oil for a bit in my 4.6 N* just to see if maybe I saw a difference in preformance or anything else. Maybe something like a Mobile ONE or something for high miles as it has 110k on it. But when I was talking ot my Dad he said that once you switch ot an oil STAY WITH IT. He said that swapping back and forth between oil types is bad for the engine. What is everyones thoughts on this. Thanks for the help

-Roswell-

Lawrence
04-09-04, 12:16 PM
I agree with your dad. You don't want to frequently be changing brands. But it won't to make a change and stay with it.

I'm a big fan of M1. Just yesterday did a M1 ATF change.

eldorado1
04-09-04, 12:19 PM
Cars with higher mileage will leak more with fully synthetic oil. Their molecules are all uniformly smaller than their non-synthetic counterparts.

Roswell256
04-10-04, 02:58 AM
I'm running Mobile 10W30 Mineral and have thought about running something for higher miles but most are synthetic blends. The debate between mineral and synthetic has bee beaten to death. But I wonder about whether an oil that claimes to be made for higher miles is worth the extra money. Any suggestions??

Lawrence
04-10-04, 02:29 PM
I'm running Mobile 10W30 Mineral and have thought about running something for higher miles but most are synthetic blends. The debate between mineral and synthetic has bee beaten to death. But I wonder about whether an oil that claimes to be made for higher miles is worth the extra money. Any suggestions??

Mobile is now making a semi-synthetic oil which is also labeled as a high mileage formula. $2.18 qt at Wal-Mart. I think the high mileage formulation has additional seal conditoners in it. Will it stop a leak, no. But it may add some life to an already good seal.

As for the full synthetic leak issue, baloney. I have never had M1 cause a leak. I run it in four of my vehicles with up to 222K miles, and in three of my parents vehicles with no (read 0) leaks or seepage. Have also ran it for years in many, many other vehicles I have long since sold, again never a leak. So you'll never convince me M1 makes leaks, or even worsens them.

If you have an oil leak, fix it properly. Not by thickening your oil up as thick as tar so it will "plug" the hole. Isn't that what STP's for? LOL. Stops oil burning too! The hole purpose of modern motor oil is to flow readily when cold to protect the engine at startup. If you make it thick enough so that it won't leak from an external hole what do you think it's doing for your engine? Fix the hole, don't try to plug it up with motor oil.

My 2 cents.

JOHNNY Z
04-10-04, 02:43 PM
Just my experience has shown that full synthetic has no real long term advantage and it WILL cause leaks to be more prevalent in older motors with less tolerant gaskets. The best medium I've found is Valvoline Durablend 10W30 for an N star. About 225 a qt and some of the protection properties of synthetic without the leaks. I too have 110,000 on my STS N Star and it runs fabulous and leaks or seeps NO oil with this Valvoline in it.

eldorado1
04-10-04, 03:09 PM
But I wonder about whether an oil that claimes to be made for higher miles is worth the extra money. Any suggestions??
Yes, they typically have more detergents and anti-wear properties... although they also have things which "condition seals" which worries me a bit.

zonie77
04-10-04, 03:43 PM
I switch oils a lot. I buy whatever premium brand Checker has a deal on. I don't see any problems.
I think your Dad may have that idea from the "old days" when there were major differences in additive packages and detergents in oil. Nondetergent was even popular 30 yrs ago! Then you could have problems from running nondetergent for awhile. Switching to detergent oil would loosen all the sludge built up while using nondetergent and you could ruin an engine in a few hundred miles. You shouldn't have any problems if you switch oil and filter at the same time.

Olds3.5
04-12-04, 01:35 PM
Oil leaks caused by using synthetic motor oils is an urban legend. I always used Wal-Mart 10W-30 because it sold for $0.84 per quart. Experimentally, I tried M1 a couple of times and the only thing I noticed is the oil maintained a clean appearance slightly longer than the cheap stuff. If the oil meets the industry requirements for gasoline engines and is recommended for your car, why not shop for the cheapest price? People are chomping at the bit to find ways to inprove their "babies" so we tend buy this and that and all we really end up doing is making a profit for someone else. They advertise to create something called "product differentiation" when oils aren't really that different. I love that commercial where the guy is towing a heavy load and spinning his tires and the engine explodes out of the truck. LOL. At the end of the commercial, the guy throws loose papers in your face and says "don't make me show you the results". I think it is Quaker State. They're good, aren't they? And that clear Quaker state container, it looks good and you can see how pretty and clean the oil looks. You can even shake the quart and watch the little bubbles rise to the top. Show it to your wife or your kids too and let them know what daddy wants for his birthday as you browse through the automotive section of the store. Do you drive a 4X4, use Quaker State 4X4 oil, "specially formulated" for off road vehicles. Lexus? Use "Fully" synthetic for premium cars. Yada yada yada. Oh yeah, don't forget to change your oil every 3 months or 3K miles. And look both ways before you cross the street.

BeelzeBob
04-12-04, 10:03 PM
It is NO urban legend that synthetic oils, specifically Mobil1, will exacerbate an oil leak. It has been experienced by many many posters on this forum and on others and it has been demonstrated on engineering tests. If there is an oil leak the Mobil1 will find it. It won't necessarily "cause" an oil leak....so just using Mobil1 and not getting a leak doesn't mean that it won't exacerbate an existing leak...possibly to the point that it drips where before it just wetted the leak site. Synthetic oil typically is a lighter viscosity base stock than the comparible conventional oil...so it will tend to leak more thru the same size orifice...er...ah...leak site.


I would tend to agree that the oils of today are so good that even the poorest quality oil is better than the best stuff available 20 years ago...but..oil is NOT necessarily oil. Oil in the can consists of the base oil stock and an additive package that provides the performance rating necessary. Additive packages (consisting of anti-axidants, anti-acids, detergents, dispersants, anti-wear ZDP, etc....) are rated for a certain performance grade...such as the SL......you see on the can. Additive packages are very expensive...so...the only way to make "cheaper" oil in the can is to use the cheapest additive package and the least amount of it that will make the oil "pass" the standards. The better oils are used by the OEM's for factory fill and are thus subjected to more stringent, continuous quality controls. So...the cheaper brands of oil are probably fine...but their is still an advantage in terms of the quality and amount of the additive package in the oil with the premium brands and the greater assurance of better quality over the long haul compared to an off brand that is simply being marketed for a special purpose....

There really is no issue with switching brands of oils in an engine. That was probably good advice 30 years ago when oils were rated SA or SB....to keep the same oil in the engine for it's life...but with the SL performance standards it is hard to get an oil that would cause any sort of compatibility problem or problem with dislodging junk in the engine....

Olds3.5
04-12-04, 10:52 PM
Actually I was generalizing about all of the negative stories about synthetic oils that I hear, like don't break-in your engine in with syn and don't switch back and forth from syn oil to cracked oil, etc. I did not know that syn oils can exacerbate existing oil leaks. I must also confess a little hypocracy as I have also recently experimented with motor oils. I am now using Chevron 10W-30 on the basis of what I have read on other forums. I have also considered using Ford's 5W-20 for better fuel economy but I have not seen any info on it with respect to N* type engines. Is it OK to use it?

Roswell256
04-13-04, 08:25 AM
I know that Synthetic oil will find any leak you already have. I have one and it drips on regular Mobil 10W30. I know that synthetic oil really doesn't offer much of an advantage over Mineral oil in my driving situation.

So from the way you make it sound bbob. By spending the little bit extra for a synthetic blend or something formulated for higher mile engines, it would probably be better for the engine now that it has 110k as apposed to just the Mobile 10W30 Mineral oil, becasue of the better additive package?

Thanks for the advice.

BeelzeBob
04-13-04, 11:25 AM
I know that Synthetic oil will find any leak you already have. I have one and it drips on regular Mobil 10W30. I know that synthetic oil really doesn't offer much of an advantage over Mineral oil in my driving situation.

So from the way you make it sound bbob. By spending the little bit extra for a synthetic blend or something formulated for higher mile engines, it would probably be better for the engine now that it has 110k as apposed to just the Mobile 10W30 Mineral oil, becasue of the better additive package?

Thanks for the advice.

I would not suggest that spending the money on the synthetic is worthwhile for wear protection or anything....and the synthetic oil offers nothing for an older engine...and will probably exacerbate any oil seepage you might have.

The synthetic "blends" are comical to me. I would say that they are primarily a marketing scheme to charge more for the same conventional oil. All oils that are rated SL and/or GF3-GF4 have a high percentage of synthetic content. They have to to meet the SL performance requirements. The viscosity improvers used to get the multi viscosity rating are synthetic products. They have to be to meet the high temp performance requirements of the SL ratings. So any SL oil is technically a synthetic "blend". Notice they don't mention or specify how much of the oil by percentage is synthetic...just that it is a "blend". If it has 5% synthetic viscosity improver then it is a "synthetic blend"....same for all multivis SL oils......LOL.

I would just use a good quality conventional oil like the Mobil "drive clean" conventional oil or Texaco Havoline or something like that. If the oil is from a reputable source and meets the SL classification and/or GF3-GF4 requirements it is fine...an oil marketed for "older engines" or anything like that is just marketing....it is the "same" oil if it meets the SL performance requirements. Just stick to the major, reputable brands for the improved quality control...

Roswell256
04-13-04, 11:28 AM
Thanks bbob. you are a free flowing fontain of automotive knowledge. you rock man. thanks again

-Roswell-