: Concealed Weapons - 12 things you should know



Rolex
07-01-07, 08:54 PM
There’s a lot of misinformation out there these days about people who have chosen to exercise their right to carry a concealed weapon according to the provisions made by state governments.

Here are a few things that CWP holders want people to know about them. Now of course there are exceptions to these general rules but I think you’ll find these things to be true about the vast majority of your legally carrying neighbors.

1. We don’t carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don’t walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don’t get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don’t hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.

2. We don’t think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren’t hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don’t take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don’t believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extrordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.

3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or “rage” incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don’t pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.

4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other secuity measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.

5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own.

6. We do not believe in the concept of “accidental discharges”. There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun “going off” was the result of negligence on somebody’s part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.

7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it’s very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don’t generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like “there’s a guy running around in the store with a gun” or even simply “I saw a man with a gun in the store” could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident.

8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.

9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.

10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don’t believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.

11. Those with concealed carry permits are quite likely the most conspicuously law-abiding people you will encounter. In the majority of states with a permitting system, the permitholder has voluntarily submitted himself or herself to a background check involving local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. Very often, fingerprints have also been taken and submitted for examination. You can be assured that we are not criminals carrying under the shield of the law. Multiple levels of government have concurred that we have followed the law. In addition, we have spent a great deal of funds on training, equipment, and the permitting process. We are not eager to jeopardize any of that through misconduct- we are well aware that if we misbehave, we can lose every last penny of that investment, as well as our very freedom.

12. We would NEVER use our weapons unless it was absolutely necessary in order to save an innocent life.

Rolex
07-01-07, 08:55 PM
http://oldnfo.blogspot.com/2007/06/dozen-things-people-should-know-about.html

Original link above. Not written by me, but well said none the less.

caddydaddy
07-01-07, 09:57 PM
Awesome! I've read some of that before, but it's all good info! I'm always a little nervous that someone can see the print of my pistol in my pocket.

Spyder
07-01-07, 10:19 PM
+1...

cadillac_tech
07-01-07, 10:46 PM
Awesome! I've read some of that before, but it's all good info! I'm always a little nervous that someone can see the print of my pistol in my pocket.

The thinner you are, the harder to conceal. I don't carry often because I'm not entirely comfartable with it. Practice, practice practice.

dkozloski
07-01-07, 10:58 PM
According to Col. Julian Hatcher in his definitive "Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers". The weapon is useless unless you carry it in your hand loaded and cocked. All that's going to happen if you don't is that the bad guy is going to get the drop on you and he'll take your heat as well as your money. An exception is a local off duty cop that while looking down the attempted robbers barrel outdrew his reflexes and plugged the guy. The cop knew that as soon as the bad guy saw his badge he was a dead man so he had some incentive.
The majority of the time I'm wearing a jacket so I carry in a pocket. If the situation warrants I'll have my hand on the gun but still in the pocket. I don't give a damn who knows I carry heat. The more people that know the more steer clear of you.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-01-07, 11:14 PM
Rolex, you'd get a mancard for posting this thread, but in lieu of mancards, I'll give you a point.

Rolex
07-02-07, 04:30 PM
According to Col. Julian Hatcher in his definitive "Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers". The weapon is useless unless you carry it in your hand loaded and cocked. All that's going to happen if you don't is that the bad guy is going to get the drop on you and he'll take your heat as well as your money. An exception is a local off duty cop that while looking down the attempted robbers barrel outdrew his reflexes and plugged the guy. The cop knew that as soon as the bad guy saw his badge he was a dead man so he had some incentive.
The majority of the time I'm wearing a jacket so I carry in a pocket. If the situation warrants I'll have my hand on the gun but still in the pocket. I don't give a damn who knows I carry heat. The more people that know the more steer clear of you.

Those aren't reflexes IMO, that's training. You and I can get it too, but we have to $$$ for it. There are facilities throughout the country that have great training for military, police, and civilians alike. I go at least twice a year: www.aptacademy.com (http://www.aptacademy.com) . I always come away with a "sharper edge" and a better shooter. :thumbsup:

Rolex
07-02-07, 04:32 PM
Rolex, you'd get a mancard for posting this thread, but in lieu of mancards, I'll give you a point.

I need a man card much worse. I bought a Honda after selling my Escalade. :hide: I think my Honda even has a tampon dispenser in the dash. :rolleyes:

Kev
07-02-07, 05:38 PM
Anyone interested in CW carry should first read "In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob. Very good reading. I highly recommend it.

Ranger
07-02-07, 11:26 PM
Living in Illinois I don't think I ever have to make any decisions about "legally" carrying concealed.

pabstcadillac
07-02-07, 11:45 PM
Fcuk CC, in AZ we can wear them out in the open on our hips. :cowboy: :alchi:

Bat Guano
07-03-07, 08:39 AM
I have a CWP and obtained it as soon as my state OKd it.
I am a responsible person with safety training since I was a teenager. I am now 70. I don't carry all the time but on occasion I do put it in my car.
I avoid locations or situations where the weapon would be needed.
as far as I know, there have been no abuses of the program in my state.
My favorite carry is my S& W 1339 9MM.
For home defense, my choice is my Glock 45 cal.

Jonas McFeely
07-03-07, 09:12 AM
According to Col. Julian Hatcher in his definitive "Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers". The weapon is useless unless you carry it in your hand loaded and cocked. All that's going to happen if you don't is that the bad guy is going to get the drop on you and he'll take your heat as well as your money. An exception is a local off duty cop that while looking down the attempted robbers barrel outdrew his reflexes and plugged the guy. The cop knew that as soon as the bad guy saw his badge he was a dead man so he had some incentive.
The majority of the time I'm wearing a jacket so I carry in a pocket. If the situation warrants I'll have my hand on the gun but still in the pocket. I don't give a damn who knows I carry heat. The more people that know the more steer clear of you.

Do you really keep a gun in your pocket everywhere you go? In Alaska?

Spyder
07-03-07, 12:15 PM
Why yes, he does. And he also carries a .458 Win Mag any time he ventures out of his truck!

I envy him.

And soon, may be joining him in the great state of Alaska... Law jobs take FOREVER to hear anything back from...this sucks.

dkozloski
07-03-07, 03:00 PM
It's the druggies with addictions and the drunks with no judgement that are the source of the problems. They tend to prey on the weak and defenseless. I do a lot of walking and I don't intend to be a willing victim. In the summertime there can be gangs of kids wandering the streets looking for entertainment. It's amazing the peace of mind you get when you know you are no longer vulnerable to the lowlife.

dkozloski
07-03-07, 03:27 PM
There have been eight grizzly bears killed in the Fairbanks area in the defense of life and property since spring. The latest was tearing the siding and windows off a house trying to get at the good tasting soft parts inside. A handgun is just about useless for grizzly protection but you do have the option of shooting yourself when you can no longer stand the pain of being eaten.

Spyder
07-03-07, 03:55 PM
Haha...every time you say that it makes me smile. :)

Bat Guano
07-03-07, 05:01 PM
There have been eight grizzly bears killed in the Fairbanks area in the defense of life and property since spring. The latest was tearing the siding and windows off a house trying to get at the good tasting soft parts inside. A handgun is just about useless for grizzly protection but you do have the option of shooting yourself when you can no longer stand the pain of being eaten.


Excellent:)

dkozloski
07-03-07, 09:12 PM
This last weekend two bears bit the dust but the moose won. A car hit a moose, two people were killed, and three hospitalized. The moose didn't survive either but he did get his licks in.

Rolex
07-04-07, 12:40 PM
There have been eight grizzly bears killed in the Fairbanks area in the defense of life and property since spring. The latest was tearing the siding and windows off a house trying to get at the good tasting soft parts inside. A handgun is just about useless for grizzly protection but you do have the option of shooting yourself when you can no longer stand the pain of being eaten.

Get yourself a S&W 500 magnum. With the right choice of ammo you can "end" anything on the face of the earth.

dkozloski
07-04-07, 02:19 PM
Get yourself a S&W 500 magnum. With the right choice of ammo you can "end" anything on the face of the earth.
I carry a .458 Win Mag. that I custom made myself on an Enfield 1917 action, with a Douglas barrel, and a laminated walnut and maple stock. You hit a grizzly anywhere on the centerline and he'll go down.

Rolex
07-04-07, 02:23 PM
I carry a .458 Win Mag. that I custom made myself on an Enfield 1917 action, with a Douglas barrel, and a laminated walnut and maple stock. You hit a grizzly anywhere on the centerline and he'll go down.

:worship: :D

stockup
07-04-07, 03:13 PM
I wish IL would pass a conseal carry permit. It almost passed once. It would keep me from being arrested as I take a firearm with me on any road trip. I never carry it on my person though and keep the chamber empty.

The weapon is useless unless you carry it in your hand loaded and cocked. I'm not sure what he was refering to, but to carry one cocked is just plain stupid unless you are already in a confrontation.

I liked the first post and agree with it completely. Carrying a weapon is a big responsibility and I like states that allow it as the crime rate shows it is effective.

I live out in the sticks and shoot regularly. I have several pistols and would reccomend people to get a shooter to practice with. I would suggest a 9mm for the price of ammo. Wal-mart carrys 100 round boxes of 9mm for 11 bucks and will give you a chance to practice cheaply. These are target loads, but serve the purpose.

One thing I find about people that practice only rarely and at a range is that they try to aim a pistol when it should be pointed and shot. If you try to aim a pistol in a self defense move, you are probably gonna miss. You only have a short distance between sights and allows for a great margin of error. Learn to shoot by pointing your pistol as you would pointing your finger and after some practice, you will find it easy to hit your targets. I see police on "Cops" make this mistake a lot. They shoot all their ammo and don't hit the target. I really think police need to practice much more than they do.

I would also suggest finding a place in the country and do some shooting outside of a range. I keep about 4000 rounds and practice regularly. I also practice with my .45, but that gets expensive. A .22 is cheap to fire, but does not recoil much and you need to fire something with some kick to get something out of your practice. There is nothing wrong though with shooting a .22, just don't make it your main practice weapon.

I worked at a hospital as the midnight maintenance man and worked directly with security in helping with bad patients, like drunks or drug abusers, etc. Whenever there was shooting, I was always be pressed into crowd control as everybody would come to the hospital after the shooting and it woould really get dicey sometimes. Amazingly, the most people I have seen killed, were shot with a .22. I think they are more deadly than a .32. We would try to guess the caliber of the bullet from the x-ray and it is harder than you think. One of the reasons the .22 is more deadly, is once it enters the skull cavity, it bounces around, making sure death follows, where the .32 usually just stops, sometimes not even entering the skull. The bigger calibers are just plain messy.

Dan

dkozloski
07-04-07, 06:08 PM
The weapon is useless unless you carry it in your hand loaded and cocked. I'm not sure what he was refering to, but to carry one cocked is just plain stupid unless you are already in a confrontation.
Dan
The Col. was reffering to the 1911 .45 auto. His theory was that by the time you got the hammer back the bad guy already had the drop on you. In these days when everything is double action we sometimes forget.

I prefer Alaska's carry law. You need no permit to carry unless you are looking for reciprocity in another state. If it is legal for you to own the weapon it is legal for you to carry it concealed with the usual caveates such as alcohol, drugs, school grounds, and the like. These people are charged with weapons violations. If you legally own an Uzi you can carry it on a sling under your coat. I know several people with legal fully automatic weapons, mostly Thompsons.

Ranger
07-04-07, 06:30 PM
Now that's what I call 2nd amendment rights. If that ever got passed here, "Hizoner", Mayor Daley would most likely litteraly have a coronary.

pabstcadillac
07-04-07, 07:54 PM
I prefer Alaska's carry law. You need no permit to carry unless you are looking for reciprocity in another state. If it is legal for you to own the weapon it is legal for you to carry it concealed with the usual caveates such as alcohol, drugs, school grounds, and the like. These people are charged with weapons violations. If you legally own an Uzi you can carry it on a sling under your coat. I know several people with legal fully automatic weapons, mostly Thompsons.

Well it looks like my next stop is either AK or TX. :alchi: :cowboy: :gun2: :usflag:

Rolex
07-04-07, 08:37 PM
One thing I find about people that practice only rarely and at a range is that they try to aim a pistol when it should be pointed and shot. If you try to aim a pistol in a self defense move, you are probably gonna miss. Dan

Dan, all of the tactical courses I've taken suggest training to focus on the front sight of a handgun. When you look over the top of a handgun you can focus on only one plane: if you're focused on your target, you'll lose focus of the front sight; And if you focus on the front sight, your intended target will be blurry.

Better to focus on the front sight in all situations. I found that with training, and having an instructor point out that every time I missed a target I was focusing only on the target (regardless of distance to the target) I became a better shooter. For close quarters, instinctive shooting can also be your friend. YMMV :)

Rolex
07-04-07, 08:53 PM
Anyone interested in CW carry should first read "In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob. Very good reading. I highly recommend it.


Every time Mass speaks I listen intently. His coursework on the legal fallout after a fight is good stuff.

Mass offered a valuable lesson about the 5 steps you want to take after being involved in a self defense shooting:

Obviously when the police arrive you don't want to be "the man with the gun" so holster your sidearm....but continue to remain ready to use it in your defense if necessary.

So, the 5 steps:

1. Point out the perpertrator to police: there are 2 people involved in an altercation. The offender and the victom. The victom should be the first person to call 911 when possible. When the cops arrive tell them, "officer, I am the one who called you and this man attacked me with a weapon." That will help the cops ID you as the defender right away....you don't want to be confused with the perpetrator.

2. Tell the police, "I will sign the complaint." This is "cop language" that tells them, "OK, this guy is the victom and the guy on the ground (bleeding out) is the attacker."

3. Point out any evidence. The weapon the attacker used, any spent shell casings from his weapon, etc. Small bits of evidence get overlooked and/or misplaced at a crime scene pretty easily.....and pretty often.

4. Point out witnesses to police. Eye witnesses will leave. When the eye witnesses leave the scene, their supportive testimony and statements leave with them. Often times people will want to leave out of fear of getting involved.

5. Last and not least tell the cops, "officer you know how serious this is, I will give my full cooperation after I have a chance to speak with my lawyer." At this point don't offer anything more to the cops.


The cops that show up after a shooting will be the same guys in the court room that a judge and jury will look to for answers. The tone of an investigation will be set in the seconds and minutes immediately following the shooting. The language you use (at the scene) to help set the tone can aparently have a big impact on how reports are written and whether or not your shooting is ruled as justified.

dkozloski
07-04-07, 11:34 PM
The Alaska State legislature went to a lot of trouble to spell out self defense and responsibilities. In Alaska you don't have to retreat from your home. You don't have to retreat if you're accosted in a place you have a right to be. It's pretty much common sense. If you're in fear of your life or bodily harm you can get in the first shot. You don't have to wait for the first swipe of the machette. Do what makes sense to the average guy and you're clear.

A couple of guys were crossing a guys property to get to a nearby lake to fish. The old guy that was the property owner stopped them to tell them that they were wasting their time because there were no fish in the lake and tried to direct them to a lake that was a better bet. One of the fishermen took offense for some reason and knocked the old guy down to the ground. The property owner lived with an Indian woman who had stepped to the door of the cabin just in time to see her man go down. She picked up a nearby .22 pump action rifle and shot both the fisherman right between the eyes. The first comment from the State Troopers to the woman was "nice shooting". She was never charged with a crime and never saw a courthouse.

An old man on crutches and hard times was hired as a night watchman at a construction site. He was living in a shack at the site. A couple of young thugs stopped by to steal gas from a fueling stand. The watchman came out of his shack and shouted at the thugs to leave. Instead they started coming towards him in what he said was a threatening manner. He shot them both dead with a rifle. A grand jury refused to indict.

An elderly woman called 911 to report that an unknown man was trying to break in her back door. The dispatcher told her that the officers were all on other calls and it'd would take a while to get there. She replied she'd try to handle it herself. When the cops arrived they found a guy at the back door shot all to pieces. The old lady had emptied a 12 gauge pump shotgun into him, reloaded and emptied it into him again. When the cops asked her why she shot him so many time she replied, "He was still wiggling". She was never arrested and never charged with a crime.

My guideline is; better me being tried for his murder than him being tried for mine. If I'm armed, nobody is going to harm my family or me.

HushH
07-05-07, 12:54 PM
Great post Rolex. :thumbsup: Especially #10.


10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don’t believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.

If only we could get the general public to understand this.

EcSTSatic
07-05-07, 01:03 PM
Great post Rolex. :thumbsup: Especially #10.



If only we could get the general public to understand this.

I second that. It has been proven that thieves target people in rental cars in places like Florida where concealment laws are in effect. They know that tourists are not likely to be carrying.