: Superchargers are here!



Maxb49
06-30-07, 08:02 PM
There is now a supercharger kit available for the Northstar V8. It bumps power up to 600 horsepower.

http://www.mechtech-ms.com/northstarSupercharger.php

Finally the Northstar is a viable hotrod engine.

Submariner409
06-30-07, 09:14 PM
:confused: Nice try.

airfuel2001
06-30-07, 10:13 PM
as I understand it nothing will interface with the N* comp. Is anybody a computer software designer? My buddy wrote the program for the mustang dyno tach adapter, and wrote software for STIs, people on the coast are different than 45-4800 above sea level, In Utah Im the only one who has interest that I know of... I have heard of N* with whipples and nitrous-175 shot back in the day, but hes not around anymore-I wonder why. they use them in sandrails for the Dunes

Maxb49
06-30-07, 10:19 PM
as I understand it nothing will interface with the N* comp. Is anybody a computer software designer? My buddy wrote the program for the mustang dyno tach adapter, and wrote software for STIs, people on the coast are different than 45-4800 above sea level, In Utah Im the only one who has interest that I know of... I have heard of N* with whipples and nitrous-175 shot back in the day, but hes not around anymore-I wonder why. they use them in sandrails for the Dunes

I don't know what is so mystical about this computer system. I haven't worked with it, but I've worked with BMW, Mercedes, Ford, and MOPAR computers without any problem...

I'll email the company to see what's up with this kit.

Who is that guy with the turbo sts?

CadillacSTS42005
06-30-07, 11:46 PM
Mark99STS
he spend over 12k on his turbo
he had to run a piggyback computer

Lord Cadillac
06-30-07, 11:54 PM
Subscribed...

AJxtcman
07-01-07, 12:37 PM
The 06 DTS can run Boost!
The 04 abd 05 may have a chance.
The 2000 to 2003 would be a long strech.

Maxb49
07-01-07, 03:50 PM
The 06 DTS can run Boost!
The 04 abd 05 may have a chance.
The 2000 to 2003 would be a long strech.

Did you get this from the supercharger people?

I hope this thing is true. The Cadillac will finally have the power and the luxury to run with the best.

Highline Cady
07-01-07, 08:00 PM
Don't get your hopes to high, the hardest thing is not finding superchargers, it's finding or figuring out how to run a piggyback or stand alone computer. Really unless you are filthy rich it's just not worth the money. Not to mention the picture of that N* would never fit in a Cadillac with those headers on it. That looks like something set up for a Fiero, or a RWD setup, although the pulleys and belts would be on the backside of the motor for a RWD setup.

Maxb49
07-01-07, 09:19 PM
What makes the Northstar computer such a PITA? I helped a friend of mine do a supercharger install on a Mercury Marauder. It's not a Cadillac, but the engines are roughly equivalent concepts (4.6 liter V8, 32v DOHC). The supercharged bolted on and we retuned the computer. What prevents the same thing from being done on a Northstar? Did Cadillac deliberately make the computer impossible to modify or tune?

caddydaddy
07-01-07, 09:50 PM
Did Cadillac deliberately make the computer impossible to modify or tune?

Yes....they don't want us to mess with their perfection! :alchi:

Highline Cady
07-01-07, 10:24 PM
Apparantly the OBDII is difficult to hack. And according to aftermarket tuning companies there isn't enough demand to justify the development of different programs including ones which would support superchargers running through the factory pcm. I think they should come to this forum, there seems to be plenty of demand at a reasonable price. I think that is the hang up though, getting it done at a reasonable price, something inline with camero, mustang, corvette, aftermarket tunes.

Maxb49
07-02-07, 09:50 AM
Apparantly the OBDII is difficult to hack. And according to aftermarket tuning companies there isn't enough demand to justify the development of different programs including ones which would support superchargers running through the factory pcm. I think they should come to this forum, there seems to be plenty of demand at a reasonable price. I think that is the hang up though, getting it done at a reasonable price, something inline with camero, mustang, corvette, aftermarket tunes.

Okay, this makes a lot of sense.

acklac7
07-02-07, 09:34 PM
Apparantly the OBDII is difficult to hack. And according to aftermarket tuning companies there isn't enough demand to justify the development of different programs including ones which would support superchargers running through the factory pcm. I think they should come to this forum, there seems to be plenty of demand at a reasonable price. I think that is the hang up though, getting it done at a reasonable price, something inline with camero, mustang, corvette, aftermarket tunes.


That and the fact that the 4t80e is maxed out from the factory. Say your company wanted to sell a modified N* PCM/Supercharger package, in order to avoid liability you would need to state that the current Transmission would not be able to handle the additional power. That means that in addition to the super charger your would need to rebuild your Trans. which would likely go at least, what, $7000+? That figure right there is end-of-story for most ppl. intersted in supercharging/boosting there Caddy...

fubar569
07-03-07, 02:58 AM
That and the fact that the 4t80e is maxed out from the factory. Say your company wanted to sell a modified N* PCM/Supercharger package, in order to avoid liability you would need to state that the current Transmission would not be able to handle the additional power. That means that in addition to the super charger your would need to rebuild your Trans. which would likely go at least, what, $7000+? That figure right there is end-of-story for most ppl. intersted in supercharging/boosting there Caddy...

If the 4T80E is "maxed" out from the factory, why have the majority either:
1. gone an obscene amount of miles on a stocker
2. went FI/NOS and never toasted a piece
3. drive it like a manual and rip rubber times 3285631456189065
4. etc etc on and on and on...

i have never really heard of any sort of "weakness" in the 4T80E...EVER...and some get abused worse than a dragstrip monster...the little 4T65E on the 3.8L motors however? junk...and they are finding that out now that they have the 303hp 5.3L LSx based V8 in front of them...

Highline Cady
07-03-07, 03:47 AM
I agree with Fubar. I've never heard of any weakness associated with the 4T80E. Acklac, you might be right if your running boost, honestly I don't know, but I've never heard that they were "maxed out" from the factory. If that is true that is indeed another reason aftermarket companies won't touch Cady PCM's also.

acklac7
07-03-07, 04:58 AM
Sorry!, let me clarify my posistion on the 4T80e: I beat the piss out of it all the time, never lets me down..It does have a few issues, almost all are related to some sort of electrical sensor (ISS).The gears,bands,clutches etc rarely fail, I've maybe seen a handful of posts regarding these compoenents.

So yes, the 4T80e is a beast, but it is maxed out @ 305ft/lbs...If I get time I will try and dig up the link on Caddy-info. I believe it is from a GM tech website and it notes that the 4T80e is currently at it's limits...I belive Mark was afraid to drive his STS in anything but second untill he got his (Tranny) rebuilt, as I recall the people doing the job said the increase in torque would rip the Tranny out from under the car..lol. BBOB always said a stock N* could take 400hp (or more ?)...The 4T80 is a different story

AJxtcman
07-03-07, 07:18 AM
Come on Bert
You have to have seen this engine in the shop?
It was for a buggy.
The rest of the pictures are from that semi hack/fabricators shop.

jadcock
07-03-07, 12:17 PM
So yes, the 4T80e is a beast, but it is maxed out @ 305ft/lbs...If I get time I will try and dig up the link on Caddy-info. I believe it is from a GM tech website and it notes that the 4T80e is currently at it's limits...

You're right -- GM lists 305 lb*ft of torque as the maximum the 4T80 is designed to handle. Is it coincidence that that's just 5 lb*ft higher than the most torquey engine ever installed in front of it (the VIN Y Northstar)? One would think that they would have used the 4T80 in the LS4 Impalas and Monte Carlos instead of the 4T65, who knows. The 4T80 has a maximum engine torque of 305 lb*ft and the 4T65 has a maximum engine torque of 280 lb*ft. Anyone want to venture a guess as to why the 4T80 wasn't used in the LS4 Impalas and Monte Carlos?

AJxtcman
07-03-07, 12:44 PM
One would think that they would have used the 4T80 in the LS4 Impalas and Monte Carlos instead of the 4T65, who knows. The 4T80 has a maximum engine torque of 305 lb*ft and the 4T65 has a maximum engine torque of 280 lb*ft.

4T65E HD
MN7 Transmission - Automatic 4 Speed, HMD, 4T65-E, Heavy Duty

jadcock
07-03-07, 02:33 PM
Thanks. The HD version doesn't show up on here:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/07car.htm

It even lists the MN7 transmission, but doesn't indicate that it's a HD version.

Raze
07-03-07, 09:34 PM
I have to interject a small point, I managed to find one small weakness in the driveline but it's not the tranny, it's the CV axles, if you've ever turned the wheel over and smoked the tires (till the stability system comes on and brakes the wheels) you can actually over torque the joints, I've managed to do it twice, it'll snap the joint and you'll end up with no codes, engine running in gear and can watch the RPMs climb under load but you won't go anywhere :) You actually have to be real careful cause it's very easy to hit the rev limiter!

Also, back about 2 years ago when I spoke with Mark on the phone after he was inching his 99STS to 500 FWHP and 500+ ft-lbs of torque, he had had no problems, but he rebuilt his tranny with mostly stock parts minus the LSD, I think he also played around with various high stall torque converters but ended up with a mild upgrade compared to stock since he still wanted to keep it daily driveable, while not all-proving, it does go to show the strength of the 4T80e...

AJxtcman
07-04-07, 12:23 AM
2008 Chevrolet Impala
MN7 Transmission - Automatic 4-Speed, HMD, 4T65-E, Heavy Duty
M15 Transmission - Automatic 4-Speed, HMD, 4T65-E, Enhanced Electronic
.
1999 Buick Regal
Regal LS 3.8L, V6 MFI L36 4T65-E MN3

Regal GS 3.8L, V6 MFI/SC L67 4T65E-HD MN7

eldorado1
07-04-07, 09:12 AM
the 4t80e should easily be able to handle 50% over stock.

Just remember torque kills trannies, not horsepower.

danbuc
07-04-07, 11:56 AM
It can also be rebuilt with heavy duty steel/friction plates, which are thinner and stronger, give the clutch packs more grabbing force. There are a few companies out there that will build track ready 4T80E's. They aren't cheap though, so to build one up for a daily driver would be useless. They can be built to handle well over 600+hp, and at least 500+ lb/ft of torque. Such a transmission would really only be at home in something like a Fiero where you could apply F/I to the N*, making it necessary to build the tranny up, otherwise you'd toast the clutch packs anytime you tried to shift passed 70% throttle. That's why Mark would shift at red line, the clutch packs would have just slipped and fried themselves. You'd also probably need some stronger planetary gears sets as well. These could be machined, but would be costly too. With the clutch packs grabbing a hold of 500+lb/ft of torque, the stock gears are likely to simply shear teeth off, or just crack and explode under such force. It happens with TH350's. Their clutch pack design can handle lots of power, but the planetary gear set is the week link. The TH400 trans has additional bracing to aid in dealing with the excessive force transfered from the clutch packs to the gears under high load behind a powerful engine.

I wouldn't trust a stock 4T80E passed 350 lb/ft driving it every day (considering it was driven like I drive my car....HARD!). Anymore than that and I'd consider heavy duty clutch packs to deal with the added force.

As for 40% over stock, that's a maximum torque input of 450lb/ft.....which is a lot, especially for a FWD car who's suspension isn't design to cope with that much torque, let alone what it has from the factory.


The half shafts are a weak point as well. Many 03/04 Cobra owners found themselves snapping half shafts at the track once they upped the power, or in some cases just ran drag radials. The horrendous weight transfer to the rear on our fwd yachts helps ease the stress on the axles, but your still asking for trouble running the kind of power Mark is through the stock units.

As Raze mentioned, the CV joints aren't too fond of excessive torque input either. I bet you could probably have a set of HD half shafts, with beefier CV joints machined for the car as well, but at what cost.

At this point, I've pretty much given up on making the car more powerful, and have decided to focus more on making it more balanced in regards to handling, and managing the power it already has during WOT launches. I feel focusing more on those two aspects then power alone will in the end, make the car much more driver friendly (that is, if your like me and beat the piss out of it almost every day).

Raze
07-04-07, 01:14 PM
danbuc,

if you want to improve handling and overall balance do 3 things:

1) upgrade to stiffer/lower springs (ideally you'd like a matched shock absorber to a given spring rate but slapping on some Eibachs on your OEM or aftermarket passive struts is a heck of a lot better than stock while cornering and much more economical than full on customizable custom made setup...

2) upgrade brakes, get higher quality rotors and pick up some hawk ceramic pads, bleed the brake system, potentially rebuild your calipers, I'd mention other ceramic pads but I don't know of anyone who makes them for Cadillacs. I personally use R1 Concepts rotors, they're not that expensive, crossdrilled and slotted (more for looks) but occasionally I beat on them enough that it makes a difference, and besides for the price of them over high end OEMs I won't feel bad replacing them after 20-30k miles if they crack/warp. I also use Axxis Metal Master brake pads, they're semi-metaillic, semi-ceramic, kinda gives you a fair tradeoff between full ceramics and full metals and provide superior stopping power over even the best OEM 'performance' pads I've tried...

3) TIRES TIRES TIRES, they are not all equal, they do not all handle/perform the same. I never really bought into this with previous daily drivers that I plunked around town in, on my Eldo though I've been through 4 different sets of tires and have tried a number of different kinds due to poor wear (I think I managed to get 22,000 miles out of my last set of Goodyears), I LOVE the new Goodyear Response Edge tires, superior grip, handling, and cornering. They have a VERY flat sidewall compared to tires in the same size class if you're still on your OEM rims that are carbon fiber reinforced for some serious flat cornering. I think they improved lateral grip as much as the springs, together they're amazing.

4/add on) If you have the money a good set of lightweight rims that allow for more air passage they'll help cool your brakes and save you weight which = greater acceleration since your rolling momentum decreases!

5/add add on) Remove all weight from your car :) I don't mean gut it, but if you really want to up performance realize that every 10 lbs off your car is equivalent to about 1 hp :)

danbuc
07-04-07, 01:19 PM
I'm in the process of doing all that right now....it's just I have near zero funds so it's been a long...long process. I run Hawk Ceramic pads all around. I've got Toyo Proxes on the car...second set actually. I wanna pic up the strut tower brace, and thicker front/rear sway bars. I'd like to get my hands on a set of lightweight 17" rims....been thinking about getting a set from CardioDoc off ebay or whatever, but again.....money is the key problem.


...And yes they would most likely be Cadillac Rims.....or maybe some other GM brand, no aftermarket crap though.

AJxtcman
07-04-07, 02:20 PM
I am in rough numbers, but $12,000 installed
This is for a complete engine, harness, ECM, TCM, all the fluids, Super charger, T-body, belt, P/S pump setup, IPC if needed, VTD module if needed.

msta293412
07-05-07, 09:46 AM
I am in rough numbers, but $12,000 installed
This is for a complete engine, harness, ECM, TCM, all the fluids, Super charger, T-body, belt, P/S pump setup, IPC if needed, VTD module if needed.
......uh.......What?

AJxtcman
07-05-07, 07:18 PM
I think it will run about $10K, But I padded it by 2K.
That would be low mile replacement engine, Replacement GM engine Control Managment ( ECM ), Harness, Tranmission Control Module (this is needed because you have an ECM not a PCM), Software upgrade, Blower and drive system, 80mm T-body, P/S relocation kit, Set up the ECM to read Class 2.

airfuel2001
07-06-07, 09:52 PM
I heard a story from back in the day where the N* was fitted with a turbo system as a challenge with all the exotics across the pond. They all the thought the big american tuna boat couldnt hang with them in the autobond, as it was told to me...all the programmers at the time were familar with writing any tune they needed to. I guess it took them by surprise-they were all cruising about 150ish, when they heard a high pitched scream, only to look back and see the N* pass all of them from behind. All the original programmers that knew what was what have either moved on or retired....just a story I heard-thought it was interesting.

mikeman711
07-20-07, 06:07 PM
what are thes codes for
P0234 - Turbocharger Engine Overboost Condition
P0235 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 1 Circuit
P0236 - Turbocharger Boost System
P0237 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor Circuit Low Voltage
P0238 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor Circuit High Voltage
P0239 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit
P0240 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Performance
P0241 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit Low Voltage
P0242 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit High Voltage
P0243 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1
P0244 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 Performance
P0245 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 Low Voltage
P0246 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 High Voltage
P0247 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2
P0248 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 Performance
P0249 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 Low Voltage
P0250 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 High Voltage

fubar569
07-20-07, 06:38 PM
what are thes codes for
P0234 - Turbocharger Engine Overboost Condition
P0235 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 1 Circuit
P0236 - Turbocharger Boost System
P0237 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor Circuit Low Voltage
P0238 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor Circuit High Voltage
P0239 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit
P0240 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Performance
P0241 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit Low Voltage
P0242 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor 2 Circuit High Voltage
P0243 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1
P0244 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 Performance
P0245 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 Low Voltage
P0246 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 1 High Voltage
P0247 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2
P0248 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 Performance
P0249 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 Low Voltage
P0250 - Turbocharger Wastegate Solenoid 2 High Voltage

manufacturer standard OBDII codes...doesnt mean a thing....

mikeman711
07-20-07, 07:53 PM
Don't get your hopes to high, the hardest thing is not finding superchargers, it's finding or figuring out how to run a piggyback or stand alone computer. Really unless you are filthy rich it's just not worth the money. Not to mention the picture of that N* would never fit in a Cadillac with those headers on it. That looks like something set up for a Fiero, or a RWD setup, although the pulleys and belts would be on the backside of the motor for a RWD setup.

what do you mean by piggyback or stand alone computer what is that

mikeman711
07-20-07, 07:55 PM
Apparantly the OBDII is difficult to hack. And according to aftermarket tuning companies there isn't enough demand to justify the development of different programs including ones which would support superchargers running through the factory pcm. I think they should come to this forum, there seems to be plenty of demand at a reasonable price. I think that is the hang up though, getting it done at a reasonable price, something inline with camero, mustang, corvette, aftermarket tunes.

what real problems are their what i mean if you were able to hack what whould you look for and how could it help

mikeman711
07-20-07, 07:56 PM
That and the fact that the 4t80e is maxed out from the factory. Say your company wanted to sell a modified N* PCM/Supercharger package, in order to avoid liability you would need to state that the current Transmission would not be able to handle the additional power. That means that in addition to the super charger your would need to rebuild your Trans. which would likely go at least, what, $7000+? That figure right there is end-of-story for most ppl. intersted in supercharging/boosting there Caddy...

what is 4t80e and couldint you just beef everything else up

mikeman711
07-20-07, 08:09 PM
sor really what i have read there is no real smart way to boosting up the performance of your cadillac without damaging something else or having to replace alot and without spending a whole bunch of money. becouse if thats all true you mysofwell got to a junk yard pick up a shell of a cadillac or anyother car and put a highdoller engine with a super/turbo charger and work your way up so the car can handle the whole lot of power my self if i were to start from scrach i whould get an old schooled cadillac just the shell and drop a 5oo hp chevy racing engine in. duel exaust. axles and tranny able to handle power and so basicly supe it up hard

danbuc
07-21-07, 05:09 PM
sor really what i have read there is no real smart way to boosting up the performance of your cadillac without damaging something else or having to replace alot and without spending a whole bunch of money. becouse if thats all true you mysofwell got to a junk yard pick up a shell of a cadillac or anyother car and put a highdoller engine with a super/turbo charger and work your way up so the car can handle the whole lot of power my self if i were to start from scrach i whould get an old schooled cadillac just the shell and drop a 5oo hp chevy racing engine in. duel exaust. axles and tranny able to handle power and so basicly supe it up hard

MId 80's Fleetwood, with a built 500ci Caddy motor....that's the way to go...

fubar569
07-21-07, 06:25 PM
MId 80's Fleetwood, with a built 500ci Caddy motor....that's the way to go...

82 fleetwood w/ 350 diesel!!!!! LOL:thepan:
i still have mine ;)

i'd LOVE to do a duramax/allison swap and put a SMOKIN huge turbo on it...in keeping with the diesel thing...

mikeman711
07-21-07, 07:49 PM
MId 80's Fleetwood, with a built 500ci Caddy motor....that's the way to go...

but wouldint it come to the same problems as a new cadillac engine does

AJxtcman
07-21-07, 08:44 PM
but wouldint it come to the same problems as a new cadillac engine does

New Cadillacs have superchargers and you can install one on any new Northstar. :thumbsup:

Benjamin Simon
07-22-07, 09:05 PM
I dont think I would do this, but are you saying i could install a supercharger on my 05 STS v8?

AJxtcman
07-22-07, 09:08 PM
I dont think I would do this, but are you saying i could install a supercharger on my 05 STS v8?

YES
100% YES
THE ANSWER IS STILL YES

Destroyer
07-22-07, 10:16 PM
I'd love to see the specs on a Deville with a supercharger. 0-blown head gasket in 3 seconds flat!. :thumbsup:

Benjamin Simon
07-23-07, 12:37 AM
YES
100% YES
THE ANSWER IS STILL YES
:eek:

Forgive me, I have not been on the forums much, very busy with work.
What do you mean yes? Are you saying, "Yes it is possible as in it is also possible with unlimited funds to mount a jet engine on to the top of my STS"?

I suppose I was looking for more than a yes or no answer. Obviously, it is yes. Perhaps someone is aware of a particular company that could help me with this. I only have a few dollars to play with. Is $5K reasonable?

msta293412
07-26-07, 12:48 PM
You could probably bolt the one right on from the sts-v. Westers has a tune for the new northstars.

AJxtcman
07-26-07, 01:23 PM
You could probably bolt the one right on from the sts-v. Westers has a tune for the new northstars.

I will check into that but it would be a lot of extra work.

4.4L info
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/080250.html

clarkz71
07-26-07, 05:21 PM
I'd love to see the specs on a Deville with a supercharger. 0-blown head gasket in 3 seconds flat!. :thumbsup:

Nothing for you to worry about, you don't own a Northstar.:want:

Submariner409
07-26-07, 08:59 PM
:rolleyes: I can't figure out which side of the car I want my shaker scoop to point....passenger or driver.

eldorado1
07-26-07, 09:24 PM
Is there something wrong with it rocking back and forth? ;)

AJxtcman
07-26-07, 09:59 PM
:rolleyes: I can't figure out which side of the car I want my shaker scoop to point....passenger or driver.

Benjamin Simon has a RWD STS