: Crank sensor and PCM History



AJxtcman
06-21-07, 07:11 AM
Gen I PCM = non OBD II inside the car and the size of a football field.
Gen I Crank Sensors. A and B the same. fits 93 to 99. two wire sensors.
Gen II PCM 96 to 99 OBD II
Gen II Crank Sensors 2000 to 2005. They are three wire sensors and they have had many updates. locacted in the front near the oil filter.
Gen III PCM 2000 to 2003 several part numbers all supercede to one.
Gen IV PCM 2004 and 2005. small with three wire connectors
Gen III Crank sensor. 2006 to 2008. just 1 sensor located near the starter. Three wire.
Gen V PCM 2006 to 2008 even smaller, but the most powerfull PCM GM uses.

AJxtcman
06-26-07, 06:57 AM
I could not find 1 TSB or PI on 93 to 99 Crank Sensors. I have replaced just a handful.

AJxtcman
06-26-07, 07:12 AM
Service VME - 4.6L ( L37, LD8 ) Northstar Engine Crank Sensors - kw DTC MIL stall #PI01478 - (10/30/2003)
This service VME is to give you a heads up on an emerging parts concern. It concerns FWD Northstar crank sensors on 2000 to 2003 vehicles.
The new supplier of crank sensors started supplying production at the start of the 04-model year as well as supplying SPO with service parts in September. .
.
00-03 Cadillac EB KB 4.6L LD8 L37 Engine Northstar Updated Crankshaft Sensors - kw DTC MIL driveability #PIP3036 - (06/29/2004)
12575481- UPPER-(GRAY IN COLOR)
12575482-LOWER-(BLACK IN COLOR)
.
.
Subject: Intermittent Engine Idle Instability, Hard/No Restart or Decel Stalls, SES Lamp Illuminated, DTCs P0335, P0336, P0385, P0386 or P1599 may be Set (Diagnose and Repair) #02-06-04-019 - (04/09/2002)

Models: 2000-2001 Cadillac DeVille, Eldorado, Seville 2001 Oldsmobile Aurora
with 4.0L or 4.6L Engine (VINs C, Y, 9 -- RPOs L47, LD8, L37)

Correction
If the vehicle has any of the crank sensor codes P0335, P0336, P0385, or P0386 set, then the following should be done:

Inspect both of the crank sensor terminals for signs of poor connection or corrosion of both crank sensors. Pin drag test all four terminals.

Inspect the crank sensor circuit wires for signs of damage.

Inspect the crank sensor circuits at the PCM for poor connections. The crank sensor terminals should also be drag tested.

Remove the crank sensors and check for any debris on the sensor.

Verify crank sensor location (A on the bottom and B on the top) and verify that the sensor circuit wires are in the correct cavities.

Inspect the date code on the sensor. If it is before 0276, replace the crank shaft sensor and perform case learn.

If the date code is past 0276, verify the PCM grounds. A voltage drop test should be less than 20 mV.

If the PCM ground circuit verification is acceptable, then follow published PCM diagnostics.

If the vehicle has an idle or decel stall, or near stall concern and only has DTC P1599 set, then the following should be done:

Verify the system power and ground connections for the PCM.

Verify crank sensor location (A on the bottom and B on the top) and verify that the sensor circuit wires are in the correct cavities in the harness.

Remove the crank sensors and check for any debris on the sensor.

Verify that the fuel pressure regulator is not leaking fuel past the diaphragm.

Perform the injector balance drop test and verify even pressure drops on all injectors.

Inspect and clean the EGR passages, as necessary.

Inspect and clean the IAC passages, as necessary.

.
.
.
Did GM know of a Crank sensor problem. YES. They had updated sensors and then had to swicth suppliers. Who is at fault? GM's design or bad supplier?

AJxtcman
06-26-07, 01:13 PM
First Gen crank sensors.
Crankshaft Position Sensors and Reluctor Ring
The two crankshaft sensors are located on the front bank (BANK 2) of the engine block between cylinders 4 and 6. Crankshaft position A sensor is located in the upper crankcase and crankshaft position B sensor is located in the lower crankcase. Both sensors extend into the crankcase and are sealed to the engine block with O-rings. The crankshaft position sensors are not adjustable.

The magnetic crankshaft position sensors operate similar to the pickup coil in a distributor. When a piece of steel (called a reluctor) is repeatedly moved over the sensor, a voltage will be created by the sensor that appears to go On-Off-On-Off-On-Off. This On-Off signal is also similar to the signal that a set of breaker points in a distributor would generate as the distributor shaft turned and the points opened and closed.

The reluctor ring is cast onto the crankshaft between the #3 and #4 main bearing journals. The reluctor ring has 24 evenly spaced notches or air gaps and an additional 8 unevenly spaced notches for a total of 32.

As the crankshaft makes one complete revolution, both the A and B sensors will produce 32 On-Off pulses per revolution. In addition, the A sensor is positioned 27 degrees of crankshaft revolution before the B sensor. This creates a unique pattern of On-Off pulses sent to the ignition control module so that it can recognize crankshaft position.

AJxtcman
06-26-07, 01:17 PM
Gen 2 Crank sensors. This is a picture of the first version that fail all the time. The top sensor is tan. The updated sensors have a GREY top sensor and the bottom remains black
.
Crankshaft Position Sensors
The PCM uses dual crankshaft position (CKP A and CKP B) sensors to determine crankshaft position. The CKP sensors are mounted in the engine block approximately 21.5 degrees apart from each other. Three wires connect each CKP sensor to the PCM. The PCM supplies an ignition voltage and a ground for each CKP sensor. During engine rotation, a slotted ring, machined into the crankshaft, causes the sensors to return a series of ON and OFF pulses to the PCM. The PCM uses these pulses to decode the position of the engine crankshaft.

The PCM uses two basic methods of decoding the engine position: Angle Based and Time Based (using either CKP A or CKP B sensor input). During normal operation, the PCM uses the angle based method. In order to operate in this mode, the PCM must receive signal pulses from both CKP sensors. The PCM uses the signal pulses to determine an initial crankshaft position, and to generate MEDRES (24X reference) and LORES (4X reference) signals. Once the initial crank position is determined, the PCM continuously monitors both sensors for valid signal inputs. As long as both signal inputs remain, the PCM will continue to use the angle based mode.

When either CKP signal is lost, the PCM will compare the MEDRES signal to the camshaft position (CMP) sensor signal. If the PCM detects a valid CMP signal, and the MEDRES to CMP signal correlation is correct, the PCM determines that CKP sensor A is at fault. However, if the MEDRES to CMP correlation is incorrect, the PCM determines that CKP sensor B is at fault.

If the PCM detects a loss of signal for CKP sensor A, DTC P0335 will set. The PCM will switch from angle based mode to Time Based mode B using CKP sensor B signal input. If the PCM detects a loss of signal for CKP sensor B, DTC P0385 will set. The PCM will switch from angle based mode to Time Based mode A using CKP sensor B signal input. A noisy signal input from either CKP sensor will cause the ignition system to re-sync. If the number of ignition system re-sync is more than a calibrated amount, DTC P1372 will set.

clarkz71
06-27-07, 12:32 PM
Gen I PCM = non OBD II inside the car and the size of a football field.
.

They might be the size of a football field, but they don't need to wait 2 months (or more?) to get tuned.:stirpot: .
I think I waited 4 days for my chip.


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/clarkz71/FastchipCF.jpg

jadcock
06-27-07, 12:44 PM
Thanks AJ. Enjoy all of these side conversations regarding parts updates and the like.

Regarding the updated GenII sensors -- you said the upper changes from TAN to GREY, but the bottom remains BLACK. Does this mean that the bottom sensor was not updated, or that the updated sensor is also black, meaning you can't distinguish by color?

AJxtcman
06-27-07, 12:54 PM
They both are updated. They both had a date code that they had us look for. Then they switch suppliers because of that part failure rate.

AJxtcman
06-27-07, 01:00 PM
They might be the size of a football field, but they don't need to wait 2 months (or more?) to get tuned.:stirpot: .
I think I waited 4 days for my chip.


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/clarkz71/FastchipCF.jpg

What is that thing for??
I think I saw that in a Commodore 64.
That PCM is sooooo sloooow you can never run a good time in it.
What is the speed of that PCM????
BTW I have many PCM's running my programs.
I think you are missing my point. I have at this point just seen 2
The first I was requested to hold on to.
The second just arrived.
.
I think you better think about who is taking advantage of who!!!
I sent out a PCM in good faith to someone who says that they have sent one to me.

clarkz71
06-27-07, 01:05 PM
What is that thing for??
I think I saw that in a Commodore 64.
That PCM is sooooo sloooow you can never run a good time in it.
What is the speed of that PCM????
.

It works well enough to make 275 hp, just like every Y engine after it. Isn't the GXP Benneville 275 hp? Anyway, I'm just messing with you dude. Mercedes tech vs Caddy tech. You know:want:

AJxtcman
06-27-07, 01:27 PM
It works well enough to make 275 hp, just like every Y engine after it. Isn't the GXP Benneville 275 hp? Anyway, I'm just messing with you dude. Mercedes tech vs Caddy tech. You know:want:

You do know that you could have had your Prom/MemCal updated at the dealer? You could have had the torque management turned off and a bunch of other updates done to it. TCC functions.

clarkz71
06-27-07, 01:31 PM
The only reason I replaced the prom was to get rid of the 112 mph speed limiter. I've had it up to 145 mph (by the speedo) since I replaced it. I was more then satisfied with the power stock, although it does run better with the Fastchip. Overall it runs pretty good for a Y car.

I still have my stock prom, what are these updates?

AJxtcman
06-27-07, 01:48 PM
The only reason I replaced the prom was to get rid of the 112 mph speed limiter. I've had it up to 145 mph (by the speedo) since I replaced it. I was more then satisfied with the power stock, although it does run better with the Fastchip. Overall it runs pretty good for a Y car.

I still have my stock prom, what are these updates?

One update was a high speedlimiter.
.
I have never done one, but I can look into it.
PM me your VIN.

clarkz71
06-27-07, 01:55 PM
I would think to have the mph limiter raised by the dealer you would need the correct tires for the speed increase.

AJxtcman
06-28-07, 01:38 PM
I Installed some more crank sensors today. They are Made in Japan. Denso?
I noticed the ends are not cut at a slant.

AJxtcman
06-28-07, 01:39 PM
I will look to see how made the originals.

AJxtcman
06-28-07, 02:11 PM
The original 00 to 02 say made in Mexico. Seimens? That is my guess. German Junk.

Ranger
06-28-07, 07:35 PM
The replacements are Japanese I believe.

97EldoCoupe
07-24-07, 07:00 AM
Here's my question- is the crankshaft the same from a 1997 N* to a 2000 N*? Can I pop the crank position sensors in a 2000 block from my 97 block? Apparently there's a reluctor ring on the crank? Would it be the same?

eldorado1
07-24-07, 09:06 AM
No. Different crank, different sensors, different block.

AJxtcman
07-25-07, 06:55 AM
Northstar Knock modules.
Year----------First #------------Second # below---Hardware code
1996 PCM -- Module #16196410---1585300-------BTBU
1997 PCM -- Module #16196410---1587112-------CBRK--This ran to 125 mph but bucked after 110
199? PCM -- Module #16196410---1587195-------CBRK--I have ran this past 135 mph
1999 PCM -- Module #16196410---1588106 ------- --I could not go over 100mph
1998 PCM -- Module #16196410---1588058 -------CHZP--I ran this to 125 mph.
1998 PCM -- Module #16196410---1587149 -------CHZJ--This ran to 130 mph

cadillacmike68
09-02-07, 01:37 AM
The original 00 to 02 say made in Mexico. Seimens? That is my guess. German Junk.

Wait a minute - I just bought two from the dealer and i think thay said "made in mexico" !!!

AJxtcman
09-02-07, 10:33 AM
Service VME - 4.6L ( L37, LD8 ) Northstar Engine Crank Sensors - kw DTC MIL stall #PI01478 - (10/30/2003)
It concerns FWD Northstar crank sensors on 2000 to 2003 vehicles.
The new supplier of crank sensors started supplying production at the start of the 04-model year as well as supplying SPO with service parts in September. .
.
00-03 Cadillac EB KB 4.6L LD8 L37 Engine Northstar Updated Crankshaft Sensors - kw DTC MIL driveability #PIP3036 - (06/29/2004)
12575481- UPPER-(GRAY IN COLOR)
12575482-LOWER-(BLACK IN COLOR)
.

Inspect the date code on the sensor. If it is before 0276, replace the crank shaft sensor and perform case learn.

Did GM know of a Crank sensor problem. YES. They had updated sensors and then had to swicth suppliers. Who is at fault? GM's design or bad supplier?


Wait a minute - I just bought two from the dealer and i think thay said "made in mexico" !!!

Check the date code. If you had a million $ in sensors sitting around they must go some where

waldoeldo
09-05-07, 10:05 PM
Replaced crank sensors still acting up, still setting 335 and 385 codes, does anyone know where I can get wiring schematic, showing wiring from PCM to crank sensors, think I might have and intermitant open in the circuit. Yes connectors are clean and female lugs on the plug are tight and connected to the wire comming out the back of the plug.

Please help
waldoeldo

waldoeldo
09-05-07, 10:06 PM
sorry 2000 eldorado

waldoeldo

AJxtcman
09-05-07, 10:35 PM
I will post them in the morning. DID YOU RELEARN CRANK VARIANCE?

waldoeldo
09-05-07, 10:50 PM
yes runs great until it warms up sits for and hour or so then won't start not quickly anyway, turns over to long, then starts, sets codes. It doesn't do it real often but enough a problem and it hard on starter, don,t want to replace it, it has magic starter turn the key and engine turns over, but I've looked everywhere it doesn't have starter.






Ha Ha , I know where it is that only one reason I don,t want to ware it out.

thanks guys

waldoeldo
09-06-07, 08:22 PM
anyone know where I can get schematic of wiring from CKP's to PCM 2000 eldorado, have intermitant open

thanks
Waldo

AJxtcman
09-06-07, 10:21 PM
anyone know where I can get schematic of wiring from CKP's to PCM 2000 eldorado, have intermitant open

thanks
Waldo

35129

waldoeldo
09-07-07, 10:47 AM
Thanks AJxtcman

Now if I can get it to open while I have meter on it. I've got wires to check, hope I don't have to run parallel wires to crank sensor plugs.

Thanks again AJxtcman

Waldo

cadillacmike68
09-11-07, 08:39 PM
Wait a minute - I just bought two from the dealer and i think thay said "made in mexico" !!!


My dealer parts mgr assured me that the sensors that i bought were the most recent ones, and that he knew of the superceded parts which was actually a few years ago. He's never steered me wrong.

The new ones have been fine in 300 miles of drving. My gas mileage seemed down a bit, but it still got the mystical over 540 miles total range plus miles driven on my trip home on Sunday, for a 90 or so mile drive.

540 total miles equates to a sustained 30mpg. 18 gals * 30 mpg = 540 miles. The car usually starts with a estimated range in the mid 300s and slowly climbs as one stays on the highway. I got it up to about 460 range plus the 80 some odd miles already driven this past Sunday.

This is on a car with 104,000 miles. Speeds b/w 70 and 80, no testosterone moments!s

zbuickman
09-15-07, 11:34 PM
First Gen crank sensors.
Crankshaft Position Sensors and Reluctor Ring
The two crankshaft sensors are located on the front bank (BANK 2) of the engine block between cylinders 4 and 6. Crankshaft position A sensor is located in the upper crankcase and crankshaft position B sensor is located in the lower crankcase. Both sensors extend into the crankcase and are sealed to the engine block with O-rings. The crankshaft position sensors are not adjustable.

The magnetic crankshaft position sensors operate similar to the pickup coil in a distributor. When a piece of steel (called a reluctor) is repeatedly moved over the sensor, a voltage will be created by the sensor that appears to go On-Off-On-Off-On-Off. This On-Off signal is also similar to the signal that a set of breaker points in a distributor would generate as the distributor shaft turned and the points opened and closed.

UMM well not exactly. it creates a sawtooth AC signal which would start at 0 volts and ramp up to full + drop to full - and ramp back to 0 volts and operates in the 26 Hz - 6 KHz range and the module monitors this saw tooth "cross count":)

AJxtcman
09-16-07, 12:33 AM
UMM well not exactly. it creates a sawtooth AC signal which would start at 0 volts and ramp up to full + drop to full - and ramp back to 0 volts and operates in the 26 Hz - 6 KHz range and the module monitors this saw tooth "cross count":)

I guess you are right The first gen Ignition system listed below must be a misprint so I will post it again.

GM Document ID# 278512
1999 Cadillac Seville


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Electronic Ignition (EI) System Description


35609

The Ignition Control System for this Powertrain controls fuel combustion by providing a spark to ignite the compressed air/fuel mixture in each cylinder at the correct time. The ignition control system has several advantages over a mechanical distributor ignition system.


No moving parts to wear out.
No mechanical load on the engine.
Elimination of mechanical timing adjustments.
Located for easier service and improved reliability.
Improved high engine speed performance.


The Ignition Control System consists of the following components:


Two crankshaft position sensors (A and B).
Crankshaft reluctor ring.
Camshaft position sensor.
Ignition control module.
4 separate ignition coils.
Eight spark plug wires and conduit.
Eight spark plugs.
Knock sensor.
Powertrain Control Module (PCM).


System Operation
The Ignition Control System does not use a conventional distributor or a single ignition coil. In this ignition system, both ends of each of the four ignition coils are connected to a spark plug. Each coil is connected with spark plugs on companion cylinders, i.e., on top dead center at the same time (1-4, 2-5, 6-7, and 3-8). One cylinder is on its compression stroke when the other one is on its exhaust stroke.

When the coil discharges, both plugs fire at the same time by using the engine block to complete the electrical circuit. The cylinder on the compression stroke is called the event cylinder and the one on the exhaust stroke is the waste cylinder. The two cylinders share the energy available from the ignition coil to fire both spark plugs. This method of ignition is called waste spark ignition.

Since the polarity of the ignition coil primary and secondary windings does not change, one spark plug always fires with a forward current (center electrode to ground electrode) and its companion plug fires with a reverse current (ground electrode to center electrode). This is different from a conventional distributor ignition system that fires all the plugs with the same forward current flow.

It is possible for one spark plug to fire even though a plug wire from the same coil may be disconnected from its companion spark plug. The disconnected plug wire acts as one plate of a capacitor and the engine block acts as the other plate. These two capacitor plates are charged as a spark first jumps across the gap of the connected spark plug. The plates are then discharged as the energy is dissipated as the spark continues. Voltage requirements are very high with an open spark plug or wire. The ignition coil may have enough reserve energy to fire the connected plug at idle, but possibly not under some engine load conditions. A more noticeable misfire may be evident under load; both spark plugs may then not fire.

Crankshaft Position Sensors and Reluctor Ring
The two crankshaft sensors are located on the front bank (BANK 2) of the engine block between cylinders 4 and 6. Crankshaft position A sensor is located in the upper crankcase and crankshaft position B sensor is located in the lower crankcase. Both sensors extend into the crankcase and are sealed to the engine block with O-rings. The crankshaft position sensors are not adjustable.

The magnetic crankshaft position sensors operate similar to the pickup coil in a distributor. When a piece of steel (called a reluctor) is repeatedly moved over the sensor, a voltage will be created by the sensor that appears to go On-Off-On-Off-On-Off. This On-Off signal is also similar to the signal that a set of breaker points in a distributor would generate as the distributor shaft turned and the points opened and closed.

The reluctor ring is cast onto the crankshaft between the #3 and #4 main bearing journals. The reluctor ring has 24 evenly spaced notches or air gaps and an additional 8 unevenly spaced notches for a total of 32.

As the crankshaft makes one complete revolution, both the A and B sensors will produce 32 On-Off pulses per revolution. In addition, the A sensor is positioned 27 degrees of crankshaft revolution before the B sensor. This creates a unique pattern of On-Off pulses sent to the ignition control module so that it can recognize crankshaft position.

Camshaft Sensor
The camshaft position sensor is located on the rear cylinder bank (BANK 1) in front of the exhaust camshaft. The camshaft position sensor extends into the rear cylinder head and is sealed with an O-ring. The camshaft position sensor is not adjustable.

As the rear cylinder bank exhaust camshaft turns, a steel pin on its drive sprocket passes over the magnetic camshaft position sensor. This creates an On-Off-On-Off signal sent to the ignition control module similar to the crankshaft position sensors. The camshaft position sensor produces one On-Off pulse for every one revolution of the camshaft or every two revolutions of the crankshaft. This allows the ignition control module to recognize camshaft position.

Ignition Control Module
The Ignition Control (IC) module is located on top of the rear camshaft cover. The IC module performs several functions:


It monitors the On-Off pulses produced by the two crankshaft and one camshaft position sensors.
It creates a 4X and 24X reference signal (4X REF HI and 24X Crank) sent to the PCM for ignition control.
It creates a camshaft reference signal (CAM HI) sent to the PCM for fuel injection control.
It provides a ground reference (REF LO, CAM LO) to the PCM.
It provides a means for the PCM to control spark advance (BYPASS and IGNITION CONTROL) called IGNITION CONTROL MODE.
It provides a limited means of controlling spark advance without PCM input called MODULE MODE.
The IC module is not repairable. When a module is replaced the remaining components must be transferred to the new module
.

Ignition Coils
Four separate coils are mounted to the module assembly. Each coil provides the spark for two spark plugs simultaneously (wasted spark ignition). Each coil can be replaced separately.

Spark Plug Wires
The spark plug wires connect the ignition control module to the spark plugs. It incorporates several plastic channels and conduits to keep it properly positioned and to protect it. The spark plug wires are 7 mm in diameter and the outer jacket is made of silicone to withstand high temperatures. The silicone jacket is also an excellent insulator for the high voltages used in the ignition system. The silicone spark plug boots provide a tight seal on the spark plug. Care should be exercised when connecting a timing light or other equipment. Do not force anything between the boot and wiring or through the silicone jacket. Connections should be made using an appropriate adapter.

Spark Plugs
Eight spark plugs are centrally located in each cylinder combustion chamber and can be accessed through holes at the top of both cylinder bank camshaft covers. The spark plugs have platinum pads welded to the electrodes. These pads extend the spark plug life to 160,000 kilometers (100,000 miles).

Worn, cracked or dirty plugs may give satisfactory operation at idling speed, but under operating conditions they frequently fail. Faulty plugs are indicated in a number of ways: poor fuel economy, loss of power and speed, hesitation, shudder, medium throttle intake manifold backfire, hard starting and general poor engine performance.

Fouled plugs may be indicated by black carbon deposits. The black deposits are usually the result of slow-speed driving and short runs where sufficient engine operating temperature is seldom reached. Worn pistons, rings, faulty ignition, over-rich fuel mixture or low heat range spark plugs may result in carbon deposits.

Excessive gap wear on plugs of low mileage, usually indicates the engine is operating at high speeds or loads that are consistently greater than normal or that a plug which is too hot of a heat range is being used. Electrode wear may also be the result of plug overheating, caused by combustion gases leaking past the threads, due to insufficient torque of the spark plug. Excessively lean fuel mixture will also result in excessive electrode wear.

Broken insulators are usually the result of improper installation or carelessness when gapping the plug. Broken upper insulators usually result from a poor fitting wrench or an outside blow. The cracked insulator may not show up right away, but will as soon as oil or moisture penetrates the crack. The crack is usually just below the crimped part of shell and may not be visible.

Broken lower insulators usually result from carelessness when gapping and generally are visible. This type of break may result from the plug operating too Hot, which may happen in periods of high-speed operation or under heavy loads. When gapping a spark plug, always make the gap adjustment by bending the ground (side) electrode. Spark plugs with broken insulators should always be replaced.

Each spark plug boot covers the spark plug terminal and a portion of the plug insulator. These boots prevent flash-over which causes engine misfiring. Do not mistake corona discharge for flash-over or a shorted insulator. Corona is a steady blue light appearing around the insulator, just above the shell crimp. It is the visible evidence of high-tension field and has no effect on ignition performance. Usually it can be dust particles leaving a clear ring on the insulator just above the shell. This ring is sometimes mistakenly regarded as evidence that combustion gases have blown out between shell and insulator.

Base Ignition Timing
The base ignition timing is determined by the relationship of the crankshaft position sensors to the reluctor ring. This relationship is not adjustable and results in a base ignition timing of 10 degrees BTDC.

IC Module Mode
There are two modes of ignition system operation: PCM mode and Ignition Control Module (IC Module) mode. In IC Module mode, the ignition system operates independently from the PCM. The ignition control module maintains a base ignition timing of 10 degrees BTDC and is able to change this ignition timing slightly with increased engine speed. IC Module mode is in effect whenever an ignition control fault is detected while the engine is running and it will have a noticeable effect on driveability. In PCM mode, the PCM controls the ignition timing. The PCM calculates the desired ignition timing based on information it receives from the input sensors.

PCM Timing Mode
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) controls spark advance and fuel injection for all driving conditions. The PCM monitors input signals from the following components as part of its ignition control function to determine the required ignition timing:


Ignition Control Module (IC Module).
Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor.
Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor.
Transaxle Range (TR) switch.
Throttle Position (TP) sensor.
Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS).
Knock Sensor (KS).

35610


The crankshaft reluctor ring has 24 evenly spaced notches plus 8 additional notches (shaded) used for synchronization.
As the crankshaft rotates, the notches pass the position sensors and create a voltage pulse signal in the sensor that is an input for the ignition control module (ICM).
Because of the physical location of the 2 crankshaft position sensors, the signal of B lags the signal of A by 27 degrees of crankshaft revolution.
To synchronize the ignition, the ICM first counts the number of B pulses between every 2 A pulses. There can be 0, 1, or 2 B pulses between A pulses.
When the ICM sees 0 B pulses between A pulses , it starts counting B pulses between A pulses. When the ICM counts exactly 4, it synchronizes the ignition on the very next A pulse. If the ICM counts over 4 (jumps from 3 to 5), it waits for another B pulse between A pulse to start counting again.
This process allows the ignition to synchronize and fire the first spark plug within 180 degrees (1/2 engine revolution).
The camshaft position (CMP) sensor provides the ICM with cylinder #1 firing order information, which the PCM uses for sequential fuel injection.
Using 3 sensors allows the ICM to maintain ignition synchronization even if one of the 3 sensors fails.

Ignition Control Module Inputs and Outputs

35611

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

zbuickman
09-16-07, 01:24 PM
there is one other typo as well in there when it says that the plug will still fire even if the other plug wire is off...... It will but only in its waste cycle. not during its compression cycle. as blow out will occur due to the weaker spark(especially under boosted applications. Your third pic shows the correct produced wave form. and the fourth shows the cross count. but it is not specificly Spelled out in the literature. (thanks eldorado1 (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/member.php?find=lastposter&t=114524) for steering me in the right direction to research). what makes this module different than the GM 6-DIS:noidea:. The 6-DIS will trigger off a hall effect sensor. which is on-off-on-off.I am currently running a 2004 Quick start 6-DIS on my 86' Buick Daily Driver. I could not get the GEN I to trigger on the bench with the hall effect sensors. The GEN II CKP's are on-off-on-off(basicly a 12v prox switch) I will update with more operational info as I figure it out:hmm:. I am hoping that it will accept a hall effect cam sensor but am not to worried as I am currently not using Cam Hi or 24x

SAVIE24
09-23-07, 03:51 PM
I Have A 2001 Deville With The Nortstar
I Have 2 Crank Sensors Upper And Lower 1 Is Bad I Want To Change Both They On Cost Me 25.00 Each
I Know They Are Suppose To Be Near The Oil Filter On The Block
Aj Has Great Info,but I Can Not Find Them,i Know The 2nd Gen Top 1 Is Gray Bottom Still Black
Aj Or Anyone Tell Me A Better Way To Find Them,i Dont See Any Wires Or Anything
Any Pics Of Where They Are,is The A Cover On Them
I Just Cant Seem To Find Them---- Where Are They???-----------------------savie

AJxtcman
09-23-07, 05:21 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/116089-northstar-crank-sensor-replacement.html

AJxtcman
11-07-07, 01:13 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/35129d1189131683-crank-sensor-pcm-history-520703.gif

dgarrett
:bump:

AJxtcman
02-09-09, 02:07 PM
Gen I PCM = non OBD II inside the car and the size of a football field.
We all know Ed Wright and his good friend Lyndon Wester can tune this PCM. It has a 64kb cal





Gen II PCM 96 to 99 OBD II
This PCM is unique to GM's line up. It uses 2 goofy little Flash chips. This makes it harder to pull the chip and read it. You will still need to reassemble the cal into 1 segment. Next this PCM uses 2 CPU's that are not shared with other OBD II PCM's That is an issue with the assembly language and a typical cable won't read it
This is a 176kb cal
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/PCM%20types/HPIM0252.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/PCM%20types/4848-599.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/PCM%20types/4848-499.jpg





Gen III PCM 2000 to 2003 several part numbers all supersede to one.
This is my Favorite.
This is the Siemens PCM It uses 1 Intel Flash Chip just like the other GM cars. The file is a 512kb file just like the other 2000 to 2003 GM cars. The Issue on the PCM is it uses 2 Infineon CPU's not the standard GM Motorola/Freescale.
A typical cable won't read out this PCM, but you can read the Flash Chip. :shhh:
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/PCM%20types/HPIM0251-1.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/PCM%20types/SIMTEC.jpg






Gen IV PCM 2004 and 2005. small with three wire connectors


This PCM is similar to the 00 to 03 as far as the twin Infineon CPU's, but that is about it. This has 2 AMD flash chips and the file size is 1mb

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/PCM%20types/HPIM0255.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/PCM%20types/HPIM3640.jpg

The Gen 1 RWD ECM 2004 and 2005. This is an E22.
The E22 only controls the Engine. It is just slightly different then the FWD PCM. This ECM is a CAN ECM also. It also has a 1mb cal.

This is the FWD and the RWD ECM's side by side
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/PCM%20types/PCM.jpg

Can you take some pictures N0DIH?






Gen V PCM 2006 to 2008 even smaller, but the most powerful PCM GM uses.

This ECM controls just the Engine for the first time in a FWD 2006 DTS. :highfive:
This is the first time a Northstar has been powered by an ECM that has been shared with other GM cars.
Now you know why this ECM has been tunable since 2005

This is a link to all the GM cars that it came in. Currently 7 pages

E67 link (http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp?autosel=A&part=12607096)


http://download2.efilive.com/Staff/GMPX/Controller_E67.jpg

clarkz71
02-09-09, 05:39 PM
AJ, I see your still around. .:)



http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/clarkz71/OldThreadAlert.jpg

Hogg
02-11-09, 01:24 PM
Post#38 makes it appear that Mr Wright and Mr Wester can only tune the older OBD1 PCm's. Just to be accurate, they can, and have been tuning the newer ECM's (E67 etc)for a few years now.
Even before the tuning suites supported these PCM's.

My favourite PCM is the 411 PCM. It is an actual PCM, has smaller file size came in MANY GM vehicles and is EASILY retrofitted into many other GM vehicles. It was used in 205 applications, E67 used in 154 to date.
It was the only that I know of that was available with 2 different V8 engine families. The GEN1E Vortec SBC and the GEN3 Vortec engines.

peace
Hog

AJxtcman
02-11-09, 01:35 PM
Post#38 makes it appear that Mr Wright and Mr Wester can only tune the older OBD1 PCm's. Just to be accurate, they can, and have been tuning the newer ECM's (E67 etc)for a few years now.
Even before the tuning suites supported these PCM's.

My favourite PCM is the 411 PCM. It is an actual PCM, has smaller file size came in MANY GM vehicles and is EASILY retrofitted into many other GM vehicles.
It was the only that I know of that was available with 2 different V8 engine families. The GEN1E Vortec SBC and the GEN3 Vortec engines.

peace
Hog

Correct
They or he actually can tune all of them. Including the LS1 PCM.
The 96 to 05 they or he will only tune 1 variable. The speed limiter. An adjustment is an adjustment.

I think Lyndon will shut off VATS/PassKey on the 96 to 99 also. If I have I think he can.

Hogg
02-11-09, 01:45 PM
BTW Thanks for posting pics of the PCM/ECM families. Nice complilation there.
I have seen other ECM/PCM compliations, but they didnt included the Cadillac ECM/PCM's.

As evidenced by Cadillacs switch to the newer "corporate" ECM's, not even Cadillac is immune to cost reductions.

peace
Hog

bowti67
03-03-09, 08:45 AM
I have been searching for 2006 CTSV E67 ECM pinouts and chassis wiring schematics.

What I have is a GM Performance crate engine harness ( which uses the 06 CTSV as a custom tune ) that I want to modify to fit the current harness I have in the car.

My application is in an old musclecar and uses a 4th Gen F-body chassis harness. So far what I have learned leads me to believe the E67's across different platforms have different pinouts. Is this correct?

What I plan on doing is removing the power/relay center that came with the stand-alone harness and using the chassis wiring to bring the two together. I then plan on accessing the cruise control functions from the ECM but have no idea on the electrical architecture.

This will also have a 6 speed manual behind it and I would like to use the reverse lockout. Would this necessitate software from a newer than 2006 CTSV?

Thanks for any help, I really appreciate it.

Matt

AJxtcman
03-04-09, 07:32 AM
Link to ACDelco
1996 to 1999 list by vehicle = 16214848 (http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp;jsessionid=nj0vJnyfXQ!-1056507953!-2141696243?autosel=A&part=16214848)


2000 to 2003 list by vehicle = 12573503 (http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp?autosel=A&part=12573503)


2004 & 2005 list by vehicle = 12587465 (http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp?autosel=A&part=12587465)

AJxtcman
03-04-09, 07:41 AM
I have been searching for 2006 CTSV E67 ECM pinouts and chassis wiring schematics.

What I have is a GM Performance crate engine harness ( which uses the 06 CTSV as a custom tune ) that I want to modify to fit the current harness I have in the car.

My application is in an old musclecar and uses a 4th Gen F-body chassis harness. So far what I have learned leads me to believe the E67's across different platforms have different pinouts. Is this correct?

What I plan on doing is removing the power/relay center that came with the stand-alone harness and using the chassis wiring to bring the two together. I then plan on accessing the cruise control functions from the ECM but have no idea on the electrical architecture.

This will also have a 6 speed manual behind it and I would like to use the reverse lockout. Would this necessitate software from a newer than 2006 CTSV?

Thanks for any help, I really appreciate it.

Matt

did you buy a kit?

bowti67
03-04-09, 08:39 AM
Yes I purchased a stand alone GM kit PN 19166567 which comes with everything needed for a LSx crate engine.

HondaCBX6
02-17-10, 05:07 PM
AJ or anyone with knowlege

I noticed your postings regarding the Crank Sensor problems of the series 3 Northstar motor. To make a long story short...

I bought my '03 Deville from a friends father who was dying of cancer last summer. It had 10.000 mile on it and was a beautiful car for the money.

VIN #1G6KD54Y53U290097

Anyhow I have had nothing but problems with the car not the least of which was this last problem with these sensors. Cadillac charged me $604 to replace the two sensors. I didn't seem right given I work at a sensor manufacturer and that got me thinking and browsing the internet for some answers. Anyway it seems like you know a thing or two about these sensors, the history, and what cadillac did to correct the problem. I feel as though they should have been replace for free since I see there was a letter to dealers stating as such. I understand it has bee a long time since then but they were never replaced back then because the person I bought the car from had it in storage and was dying of cancer. Fast forward to this past week when I had the problems and the dealer never mentioned these problems they just charged the heck out of me for a replacement.

Anyway do you have more information besides what is posted here about this? I am almost sure that if Cadillac would have done the job correctly they would have told me about this KNOWN issue and made it right. Now I can not trust them or Cadillac. Can you help me with any further information/documentation/links that might shed more light on what Cadillac did and for whom?

Thanks in advance.
John
PS did you or do you work for Cadillac?

BTW I have spent $2,311 on repairs in the last two months!

Submariner409
02-17-10, 05:38 PM
The faulty run of CKP's has never been a recall item for Cadillac.

The new CKP's, (Hall effect probes), made by DENSO in Japan, replaced the faulty run of Mexican Siemens units. You can tell the new units because one is gray, the other black, while the originals were one tan, the other black.

They cost about $50 each from www.rockauto.com and are an hour replacement up on jackstands. A dealer gets about $100 apiece, and a couple of hours labor. I have done 3 pair - all on others' cars, and it isn't exactly fun, but doable. My 2002 had both done: CKP B, the original warranty; and CKP A, an extended warranty.

FWIW, AJxtcman is a Certified Cadillac Tech and is currently concerned with later (post-FWD) vehicles.

Have you learned to "pull" your vehicle's DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) memory using the car's built-in code reader/scanner/memory ?? That will answer many of your questions on faults. There's a sticky thread at the top of the main Seville, Deville, and Northstar Performance pages. Read the entire sticky thread and use the URL with "obd2" to find your code pulling instructions. Write them down as "Pxxx C (or H), (Current or History)return to the sticky and use the blue lines in the Master Index to get the meanings of any P,B,C, or U codes.

HondaCBX6
02-18-10, 10:17 AM
Thanks for the info. I know NOW how to pull the codes. To be honest I love working on motorcycles and hate working on cars. If it had been June I would have probably done it myself but it is winter here and my driveway is a hill and the garage is too small for this big car... Anyway I now understandd that it was never a recall. They repaired the cars back then as needed since they were under warrenty for the most part. But Cadillac pretty much denies ever knowing about such problems and by doing so they would need to admit they had a problem. I understand that now... I also know that I could have had this work done by just about anyone and it would have been 1/2 the cost of the Cadillac dealer... Oh well... Thanks again for your response.

John

302svt
04-25-12, 06:36 PM
Anyone have a diagram of the Crankshaft Position Sensor to the PCM for a 2003 Cadillac Devile.

Submariner409
04-26-12, 02:23 PM
Anyone have a diagram of the Crankshaft Position Sensor to the PCM for a 2003 Cadillac Devile.

Electrical diagram or where it (they) is/are ??? Your engine has 2 CKP's sensing and comparing the same reluctor wheel - the sensors are about 20 degrees apart, and there's a TDC signal mixed in there, too - from the CMP - right head exhaust CaMshaft Position sensor.

Complicated diagrams and spark tables. Get a subscription for the car - www.alldatadiy.com

Ranger
04-26-12, 02:44 PM
The CKP sensors are wired to the ICM.

This diagram is for the pre-2000, but I suspect it is the same for the 2000+'s, meaning that they are wired to the ICM, not the PCM, if this is what you are asking and it helps any.

302svt
04-27-12, 01:06 PM
I changed the lower sensor because of the code I was getting but it was still hard to start, so I then changed both and it ran good for 1 day and now it will not start and I am getting codes for both sensors now. I also noticed that someone has changed the connectors before I bought the car and I a need the diagram that shows where the color of the wires go on the new connectors. Thanks

Submariner409
04-27-12, 03:20 PM
OK - for the 2003 - here you go.............

Click on each thumbnail - note that CKP B is the top sensor.

302svt
04-27-12, 07:47 PM
Thanks that is perfect.