http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-CADDILLAC-SEDAN-DEVILLE-CONTINENTAL-COACH-ROOF_W0QQitemZ280122458182QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6146Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Determined that my next Cadillac in the stable will be a '90-'92 5.7L Brougham, I've always had a thing for these early-1980's Sevilles. I have been waiting and waiting for the ideal Diplomat Blue / Black Brougham to come up for sale (one similar to Benzilla's), yet maybe I'm getting anxious and just want to jump on something else in the interim.

Nonetheless, the seller has incorrectly described it as a DeVille in the auction, but it's a Seville (with a continental kit, for which I'm not too keen). Plus, (er "minus") it has the HT-4100; yet I know the 4100 would be fine for shorter drives around town. Otherwise, this Seville keeps calling me! I know I need to hold out for the Brougham. Man alive, what to do?

Hope all had a great time at the Iowa meet. I really regret having missed it, yet I did not have too much faith in the '88 to make it there. (Hopefully next year in a 90-92 5.7L Brougham.)

Ask yourself what you want more. Would you rather come outside in the morning and see a 350 Brougham, or an early 80's Seville? Which would you be more proud to own? Which would you rather look back at in a parking lot?


The Brougham!

Brian

Ask yourself what you want more. Would you rather come outside in the morning and see a 350 Brougham, or an early 80's Seville? Which would you be more proud to own? Which would you rather look back at in a parking lot?


The Brougham!

Brian

I've got to tell you those are, indeed, the right questions I need to be asking myself. Patience is a virtue, and unfortunately impatience is my nature.

Moreover, this Seville would inevitably become the red-headed stepchild of the fleet with that tacky continental kit. (Nothing against red-headed stepchildren.) People seem to really love or hate Sevilles of that era.

At the end of the day, I've got to hold out for the 350 Brougham, but they certainly are scarce in Indianapolis and the surrounding areas-and I've got the itch. At least I can come to the forum and pour over previous posts and look at fellow forum members' pics to hold me over!

If you love Sevilles,get ready to drool. This was my '85 that i "restored" (for lack of a better term) and sold on Ebay for $2850 to guy in England. It was almost perfect. I have a framed 8x10 framed tile of it hanging up above my stove. I miss it so much...

Some of you may remember me posting pics of this car before,these are the better ones i was talking about that i had to get from my dads computer.






http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/3-4Lfullview.jpg


http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/3-4whood-trunkopen1.jpg


http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/dashfrmrt1.jpg


http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/fnt-rt3-4view1.jpg


http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/front1-2.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/headliner1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/grillCU1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/LFfender-wheel1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/Lftinterior1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/Rseat1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/85evergreenbrougham/rr3-4view1.jpg

Drool, indeed. You're not making it easy for me to refrain from the Seville purchase; just when I thought I got the bug out of my system, too!

Yours is arguably one of the finest examples of the early 80's Seville. I'm in awe of her lines and exemplary condition. The color captures the style of the era, too. Thanks for the phenomenal pictures - they truly fueled my growing appetite to have a Seville.

You most certainly put a smile on some Brit's face when he went to the shipping port to pick it up. I can understand why you continue to display a framed photo of her, too!

I can't help you're decision any cause I love both cars, but I think you'll have more fun driving the 90-92 Brougham. And in the long run it will be less expensive to maintain sans the 4100 and FWD tranny.

Cadillac_Fan, don't do it man!!! This is one of the ugliest caddys ever made (did u see the back?!?!)

I have a 92 Brougham 5.7L. U wont regret getting one too, trust me. I think they are the best ones made. You said it, patience is a virtue. I searched for 6 months before I found mine.

Drool, indeed. You're not making it easy for me to refrain from the Seville purchase; just when I thought I got the bug out of my system, too!

Yours is arguably one of the finest examples of the early 80's Seville. I'm in awe of her lines and exemplary condition. The color captures the style of the era, too. Thanks for the phenomenal pictures - they truly fueled my growing appetite to have a Seville.

You most certainly put a smile on some Brit's face when he went to the shipping port to pick it up. I can understand why you continue to display a framed photo of her, too!

Thank you. I still talk to the guy every now and then. I want to see it with British tags on it. I'll see if he will take some pics. I loved the car,but she wasnt without her faults. I couldnt afford to keep,but now that i look back,i think i could have done more to keep it.

Of all the Sevilles to get, don't get the tacky pimp special...

In addition to that, have you driven both the 4100 and the 350? Hold out for the Brougham, really. And I do like the Sevilles, but the Brougham you will just enjoy more.

Now, just to counter act jonas up there, enjoy the Diplomat blue pr0n.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/Calendar%20pics/100B070000000-1.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/100_0667.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/100_0112.jpg

As if Ben's Brougham wasn't enough to convince you.....

http://90brougham350.smugmug.com/photos/108162618-L.jpg
http://90brougham350.smugmug.com/photos/108159819-L.jpg

Cadillac_Fan, don't do it man!!! This is one of the ugliest caddys ever made (did u see the back?!?!)

I have a 92 Brougham 5.7L. U wont regret getting one too, trust me. I think they are the best ones made. You said it, patience is a virtue. I searched for 6 months before I found mine.

I agree that the "slantback style" is`nt for me either---but to each his own.
There must be a reason they stopped producing that slantstyle back though.It simply looks odd to me.

Allow me to play devil's advocate for a minute, I actually like the sevilles.

Just a bit.

They are very unique and they turn heads, but myself, I've always been a sucker for big, boxy cars. i want a trunk as long as the hood. The sevilles are unique. I wouldn't mind having one as a secondary car.

Oh yeah, and dig this thing...

http://www.pevomuc.de/100-Cadillac/PECAAR.08/1982-A/82_Customized_Paris_ClassicConversion_02.jpg
http://www.pevomuc.de/100-Cadillac/PECAAR.08/1982-A/82_Customized_Paris_ClassicConversion_01.jpg
http://www.pevomuc.de/100-Cadillac/PECAAR.08/1982-A/82_Customized_Paris_ClassicConversion_04.jpg
http://www.pevomuc.de/100-Cadillac/PECAAR.08/1982-A/82_Customized_Paris_ClassicConversion_05.jpg

The slantback style is cool....just like an old Rolls/Bentley, and it's got the distinction of being Bill Mitchell's last design (or the last one he had a hand in). But to be completely honest, unless I could find an 80-81 Seville Elegante with the 368 V8 and in the right color combination, I'd go with the 350 Brougham. Sure, the Seville probably drives smaller and is more responsive, but the 350's smooth torque laden power and unquestionable reliability would make up for that. Plus, the Brougham IMO (and lots of other people's opinions) is one of the greatest looking cars ever. The Seville is a good looking car too, but in a different way.


+1 For Brougham, especially D'Elegance.

4100.... FWD.. NO!

I wouldn't even consider it unless it was a Eldorado with the stainless roof!

Those 4100/FWD cars were Cadillac's low point in life (hence their low resale value), get a 1992 d'Elegance Brougham with the 5.7 liter L05 :thumbsup: Those have already started to appreciate.

[quote=Benzilla;1111805]"Of all the Sevilles to get, don't get the tacky pimp special...

In addition to that, have you driven both the 4100 and the 350? Hold out for the Brougham, really. And I do like the Sevilles, but the Brougham you will just enjoy more.

Now, just to counter act jonas up there, enjoy the Diplomat blue pics."

What a prize you've got there, Ben. I saw your car show photos in an earlier post and these recent ones have really driven my desire. Have you ever taken your Brougham to a Cadillac dealer service for an oil change? I'd love to see their faces and response when you pulled up. Occasionally, I take my fair-conditioned '88 to the dealer service for an oil change and they always praise the car. I think some of the "old school" techs enjoy working on her, too. I don't want to start a war with other members, but these Cadillacs genuinely turn heads more than the CTS/DTS.

If I could find a '90-'92 350 Brougham d'Elegance with an astroroof and original wire wheels, that would be the dream come true.

No, I have not driven a 4100 - just read a lot of the horror stories. I'd love to get behind the wheel of a 5.7L Brougham, but have yet to experience that privilege. From the roaring echos of "no" to the Seville, it's obvious I've got to wait for what I'm looking for, as I don't need a placeholder which this particular tacky Seville would be-and likely a buyer's remorse situation.

Thanks, I don't take it to a Cadillac dealer for anything, I have an independent mechanic do all of my Caddies, he loves the older cars.

Would you believe I bought it at a dealer in 2005? An old couple had it, and they traded it in for a beige Suburban. The wife had custom ordered it new, and cried when handing over the keys. They got it in Friday, I saw it Sunday, went back in Monday, and a guy who worked there had his brother coming down to look at it. So I asked someone else if I could take it home for a few hours to test it out, so when the guy got there the car would be gone. It worked, and I signed the papers that night...

I took it back there once since then, and the guy is still pissed at me and keeps saying I got a hell of a car.

Wow! Most Cadillac dealers don't keep used inventory that's much more than 5-6 years old from what I've seen around here. Many tell me when they get any 1999 or older, they usually go straight to auction. Yet I can see where the dealer you bought yours from would sell it on the lot and feature it. Yours wasn't the average, run-of-the-mill used Cadillac by any means. Quite a story. I would have wept, too, if I had to hand over the keys to that stunning Brougham.

I wish I could sniff out a reliable garage around here in Indianapolis. Lots of crooks out there. (I suppose that includes dealer service departments, as well!)

Cadillac_Fan, the seller can't even list the vehicle with it's correct name. Is this someone you would trust with your money?

For the record, I myself have owned the HT4100 engine, and I can say without any reservations that you should avoid it when you can just wait for something with a 350. Now, I have never driven a 350, but I have never spoken to any owner of a GM sedan with a 350 who did not love that engine.
I hope this helps you.
_Josiah Flynn

Cadillac_Fan, the seller can't even list the vehicle with it's correct name. Is this someone you would trust with your money?

For the record, I myself have owned the HT4100 engine, and I can say without any reservations that you should avoid it when you can just wait for something with a 350. Now, I have never driven a 350, but I have never spoken to any owner of a GM sedan with a 350 who did not love that engine.
I hope this helps you.
_Josiah Flynn
Excellent point. I did see that the guy even misspelled Cadillac as "Caddillac," failed to represent the proper make of the car, and disclose the hood supports were shot. I noticed your screen name and have to say I highly regard your opinion as a man of the USMC. After all the comments, I'm holding out for a '90-'92 Brougham.

(I wish I had the means to put keys to a new Cadillac in every veteran's hands upon their return from Iraq/Afghanistan.:patriot: )

Excellent point. I did see that the guy even misspelled Cadillac as "Caddillac," failed to represent the proper make of the car, and disclose the hood supports were shot. I noticed your screen name and have to say I highly regard your opinion as a man of the USMC. After all the comments, I'm holding out for a '90-'92 Brougham.

(I wish I had the means to put keys to a new Cadillac in every veteran's hands upon their return from Iraq/Afghanistan.:patriot: )

Thanks for your comments, man. Were you in the Corps yourself? Ironicly, I bought my Deville from an old Army sergeant.Yeah, hold out for that Brougham; you won't be disappointed. And just to motivate you to get a Brougham, just think...Chevy-built 350..perfect for putting these punks in their Civics in their places, is it not? Good luck in finding your Brougham. Have you considered the 93-96 FWBs?

1991 Brougham D`Elegance
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-Cadillac-Brougham-Sedan-4dr-dElegance_W0QQitemZ260128088897QQcmdZViewItem?hash =item260128088897

I don't know if it has a 350 or not.

Did you see the miles on that?

Good point there. There was another `90 on there, but so far I haven't seen anything with a 350.

Thanks for your comments, man. Were you in the Corps yourself? Ironicly, I bought my Deville from an old Army sergeant.Yeah, hold out for that Brougham; you won't be disappointed. And just to motivate you to get a Brougham, just think...Chevy-built 350..perfect for putting these punks in their Civics in their places, is it not? Good luck in finding your Brougham. Have you considered the 93-96 FWBs?

No, I am not a Marine, yet I have friends from Twentynine Palms Air/Ground Combat who are currently deployed to the Middle East. I have untold respect and admiration for all in the service. Their valor cannot be put in words.

I chuckled at your comment regarding punks in Civics. They sure are in abundance in my area, complete with oversized spoilers/wings, cheesey decals and emblems pasted all over the cars; my '88 Brougham can even take one off-the-line.

While I do like and appreciate the '93-'96s, I'm partial and a sucker for the '77-'79, '80-'89, & '90-'92 Brougham bodies. I once had a '79 Fleetwood Brougham and wish I never parted with her despite the terminal rust. My '88 is an oil burner/leaker with small to moderate rust issues, so the next step in the progression must be a '90-'92. Evidently, there are even some significant differences between the '90 model Broughams and those of '91-'92. I'm still trying to familiarize myself with those differences.

Basically, in '91 they added speed sensitive steering, gave the 350 slightly more power, dropped the 307 for a Chevy 305, and I think they did something with the suspension. I've never gotten a clear answer either.

Basically, in '91 they added speed sensitive steering, gave the 350 slightly more power, dropped the 307 for a Chevy 305, and I think they did something with the suspension. I've never gotten a clear answer either.
Thanks, Ben. I've printed out your post as a reference for my search. I once stumbled on a website hosted by 400megsfree??? or something like that, which lists Cadillac models and specs. Even after review of those, it's difficult to glean key differences between the 90 & 91-92's. By the way, my wife hated the Seville, so that, in addition to the resounding "no's" on the forum, quickly ended any thought of buying it. Plus, I think it sold for a touch above $1,800, about a grand more than I would have considered paying for it.

I got this off of consumeruide.com, it goes into more detail.

1990-1992 Cadillac Brougham Highlights

At 221 inches overall, the 4-door Brougham sedan ranked as the longest car built in the United States--an inch longer than the Lincoln Town Car, which was redesigned for 1990. That year, a fuel-injected 5.7-liter V8 became available, rated at 175 horsepower, as an alternative to the standard carbureted 5.0-liter engine. Antilock braking also arrived for 1990, as standard equipment. Broughams earned revised exterior styling, though the changes were not dramatic. New standard features included an electronic instrument cluster, rear-window defogger, and black walnut burl interior trim.
Year to Year Changes

1991 Cadillac Brougham:

A more powerful standard V8 that added fuel injection went into this season's Broughams. Meanwhile, the optional 5.7-liter V8, which was attracting plenty of buyers, gained 10 horsepower. A new electronically controlled variable-assist power-steering system increased steering effort gradually above 20 miles per hour. Broughams also got firmer springs and new deflected-disc shock absorbers.
1992 Cadillac Brougham:

Towing capacity grew by a ton this year, to a whopping 7000 pounds. The optional towing package included the 5.7-liter V8, a 3.73:1 axle ratio (versus standard 3.08:1 ratio), higher-rate springs, limited-slip differential, heavy-duty rear drum brakes, and an auxiliary engine-oil cooler. A new full-size sedan, named Fleetwood, replaced the Brougham for 1993.

Of all the Sevilles to get, don't get the tacky pimp special...

In addition to that, have you driven both the 4100 and the 350? Hold out for the Brougham, really. And I do like the Sevilles, but the Brougham you will just enjoy more.

Now, just to counter act jonas up there, enjoy the Diplomat blue pics.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/Calendar%20pics/100B070000000-1.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/100_0667.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c40/Cadillac_guy/100_0112.jpg


Beautiful car, man. Brougham ride will be so much better than Seville.

Seville razor back is supposedly worth a couple of dollars?????

Parts and labor are cheaper on Brougham because of older technology. Much interchangeability on broughams. Almost same body for about 19,000 years. Avail of used parts will be greater for Brougham.

No, I am not a Marine, yet I have friends from Twentynine Palms Air/Ground Combat who are currently deployed to the Middle East. I have untold respect and admiration for all in the service. Their valor cannot be put in words.

I chuckled at your comment regarding punks in Civics. They sure are in abundance in my area, complete with oversized spoilers/wings, cheesey decals and emblems pasted all over the cars; my '88 Brougham can even take one off-the-line.

While I do like and appreciate the '93-'96s, I'm partial and a sucker for the '77-'79, '80-'89, & '90-'92 Brougham bodies. I once had a '79 Fleetwood Brougham and wish I never parted with her despite the terminal rust. My '88 is an oil burner/leaker with small to moderate rust issues, so the next step in the progression must be a '90-'92. Evidently, there are even some significant differences between the '90 model Broughams and those of '91-'92. I'm still trying to familiarize myself with those differences.

Thanks for the admiration. I never got to go to Iraq, so I respect the ones who do go. tell any Marines you know are going there that I said to be safe, and Semper Fi.

Regarding the Civics: a friend of mine knows a guy who put 90 grand into an `89 Civic hatchback..then raced a Corvette and STILL lost. The key thing is that most of these kids who try to race you with Civics will make the car LOOK like a racer, but won't upgrade the engine's performance by much.

From what I gather, and what's apparently been addressed by now in the comments above this one, is that the 1990 Broughams didn't have the 350 as an option, but the 1991s had the 350 as an option with the D'Elegance package, and a REQUIREMENT for the towing package. Still, if you have a 1991-1993 Brougham properly washed, waxed, and detailed, they are beautiful; not to mention "pimp" (so you can make the little Civic-racers your b*tches,lol).

What's the biggest difference between the 1990 and the `91? Just fifty Cubic inches :bouncy:

Okay, so apparently they added the 350 in `90 instead of `91. My mistake.

Right, my '90 has the 350 included in the towing package. I heard something about a coach builder package too, but I'm not sure what that included. It was different gearing and possibly the 350. But I really can't remember. Your best bet is to get the towing package if you can find it. It also has stiffer springs, so they usually never start to sag.

Hey, Benzilla, I have a question: why was the 1992 350 generating 185 horses, when the 300 used in the Devilles generated 200 horsepower? I'm a bit confused here.

Right, my '90 has the 350 included in the towing package. I heard something about a coach builder package too, but I'm not sure what that included. It was different gearing and possibly the 350. But I really can't remember. Your best bet is to get the towing package if you can find it. It also has stiffer springs, so they usually never start to sag.

My '90 with the 350 is the Coachmaster package. It means it was a car destined to become a hearse or a limo. It doesn't include the towing bar, but does include the same towing springs and larger 12" instead of 11" drums.

Brian

Hey, Benzilla, I have a question: why was the 1992 350 generating 185 horses, when the 300 used in the Devilles generated 200 horsepower? I'm a bit confused here.


A few reasons. Mainly I believe it's because the 350 used a throttle body injection setup versus the 4.9's port fuel injection setup. That means that the 350 has one fuel injector for all eight cylinders and the 4.9 has one for each cylinder. That'll mean more power, and more accurate fuel delivery, which means better throttle responce and theoretically better fuel economy. But if I'm not mistaken, the 4.9 has a higher compression ratio among other little changes. But as far as torque goes, there is no replacement for displacement as the 350, in TBI form, had 300 lb/ft in 1992 and the 4.9L, in 1992, had 275 lb/ft.

^^^What he said... :D

So, the 350 has one injector trying to spray into all eight cylinders at once? By the way, what RPM did the 350's torque peak out at? Also, Cadillac_Fan, have we convinced you to get a Brougham yet?

So, the 350 has one injector trying to spray into all eight cylinders at once? By the way, what RPM did the 350's torque peak out at?

Yes, one injector in the throttle body, it sprays and somehow (don't ask me how) the fuel gets distributed to all eight cylinders. To answer your 2nd question, the TBI 350's torque peaks at 2400 rpm in the '92 Broughams.

Not only does the torque peak out at 2400 RPMs, but it also amounts to about 400 Lbs-ft. of it. :-D Now THAT is motivation! I want a 350 now!

Not to discourage, but a friend of mine recently picked up a rather spiffy 85 Seville which I took a look at the other day.

I sat in it and it was amazingly comfortable. The lack of a center hump for the tranny really gives you room on the floor, and the dash is higher up than my Brougham's, giving it more of that tank-like feeling, despite being a smaller car.

There were no plates on it so I couldn't test drive it, but he says it's very smooth and comfy. Supposedly it was a Florida car, belonging to one owner who kept all his records and whatnot. Picked it up for 1500, It's only missing a couple of filler panels in the back.

I've never really cared for the Sevilles but this one looked real nice and was quite the eye catcher in it's dark blue color. I'd still pick a brougham over one (as i already did) but it's not a bad car at all.

Bad engine. Nice car.

Not only does the torque peak out at 2400 RPMs, but it also amounts to about 400 Lbs-ft. of it. :-D Now THAT is motivation! I want a 350 now!

Actually it's only 300 lb/ft...295 in 1990. I had a book that quoted it at 400 lb/ft too, but I asked around and everyone told me that it was 300 lb/ft. Now IIRC, the TBI 454 made around 395 lb/ft or so. Either way, the 350 has no shortage of torque what-so-ever. I've only really driven one big block car (77 Town Car, 460 4bbl) and from what I remember, it seems like the 350 will push around the 4200 lb Brougham as well as the 460 did in the 4800 lb Town Car. Their 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are probably similar, but I'd assume the Townie would need a bit less throttle to get moving along, but that could be dependant on a number of other things.

TBI is actually two injectors, one on each side of the throttle body, each injector providing fuel for one bank of cylinders.

Brian

Oh, haha, wow, I can't believe I forgot that. Even the guys at work told me that after I told them I thought it was one injector when they took the air cleaner off a '92 TBI 350 Silverado.

Brian, are both injectors right up there on top next to each other? Because I could have sworn I only saw one once they pulled the air cleaner cover off.

Yup, right next to eachother. It looks like a little figure-8 when you take the air cleaner off and look straight down.

Brian

Actually it's only 300 lb/ft...295 in 1990. I had a book that quoted it at 400 lb/ft too, but I asked around and everyone told me that it was 300 lb/ft. Now IIRC, the TBI 454 made around 395 lb/ft or so. Either way, the 350 has no shortage of torque what-so-ever. I've only really driven one big block car (77 Town Car, 460 4bbl) and from what I remember, it seems like the 350 will push around the 4200 lb Brougham as well as the 460 did in the 4800 lb Town Car. Their 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are probably similar, but I'd assume the Townie would need a bit less throttle to get moving along, but that could be dependant on a number of other things.

My mistake, but as you said, there is still no torque shortage. I'd take one, although I still prefer my little 4.9 motor. Have you driven a 350 in a Brougham yet?

Not to discourage, but a friend of mine recently picked up a rather spiffy 85 Seville which I took a look at the other day.

I sat in it and it was amazingly comfortable. The lack of a center hump for the tranny really gives you room on the floor, and the dash is higher up than my Brougham's, giving it more of that tank-like feeling, despite being a smaller car.

There were no plates on it so I couldn't test drive it, but he says it's very smooth and comfy. Supposedly it was a Florida car, belonging to one owner who kept all his records and whatnot. Picked it up for 1500, It's only missing a couple of filler panels in the back.

I've never really cared for the Sevilles but this one looked real nice and was quite the eye catcher in it's dark blue color. I'd still pick a brougham over one (as i already did) but it's not a bad car at all.

Bad engine. Nice car.

You've got to give that car a test drive when your friend gets his license plates and let us know how it was. :cool2:

Have you driven a 350 in a Brougham yet?

Yep! 90Brougham350's actually!

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1985-deville-fleetwood-1985/91177-i-drove-90-brougham-5-7l.html

I~LUV~Caddys8792, I just read your review: my respect for the 1990-1992 Broughams keeps growing every time I open a post here.

A lot of informative shizzle in the last 5 pages, gotta take a look at my carb on my 307...........