: Deal or No Deal?



StealthV
06-11-07, 02:09 PM
Was looking at new cars today and my local dealer has a '07 V with roof and FG2 that has been on the showroom floor for over 200 days. Bottom line, $18k + TTL and my three year old '05 w/ 30,600 miles in trade. Probably could bargain another thousand out of them; they want to move the '07.

Deal or no deal?

BTW, they have a base Z06 (stripper, no options, great trackday car), machine silver metallic with titanium gray leather selling at sticker of $70k.

Seattle CTS-V
06-11-07, 02:26 PM
What's this 2008 M8 on order?? Maybe you should just save the $$ for modding that?

I really don't like the thought of you leaving the Cadillac world so maybe getting you into an '07 V will keep you here longer! Personally, I'd wait for the '09 V...

StealthV
06-11-07, 02:34 PM
...forgot, I've also got about $3k saved up on the GM card so deduct whatever the allowance is towards the V.

Doing the math, under $6k a year to drive a V doesn't sound too bad.

First Class Motoring
06-11-07, 02:35 PM
no deal !! keep the 05v and trow the maggie on it.07 v is not worth the extra $18k + the mods.:tisk:

StealthV
06-11-07, 02:41 PM
The '05 is bone stock except for red calipers, window tint and clear bra - Not even a !CAGS. For the '07, JPA has an attractive 112 to 122 Maggie upgrade price.

HushH
06-11-07, 02:44 PM
Sounds like a great deal. Heck, I'd be all over it just to upgrade to a steering wheel with radio controls.

First Class Motoring
06-11-07, 02:45 PM
ok,as long as your staying with the cts-v it's ok.we need you :worship: :worship:

CIWS
06-11-07, 02:45 PM
The 07 would give you an LS2 to play around with ?

urbanski
06-11-07, 03:02 PM
why? so you can tune the LS2? otherwise...just why?

StealthV
06-11-07, 03:15 PM
Why? New car w/ 100k warranty and all the things that come with it like perfect paint, wear items such as tires, brakes and clutch are all new. Larger displacement engine, heavier diff case, bigger halfshafts, refined trans, blah, blah, blah.

urbanski
06-11-07, 03:23 PM
blah blah ok dude :)
buy this cutie :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-911-S-07-Porsche-911-S-coupe-with-Aerokit-only-4156-miles_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10156QQihZ013QQit emZ230141220069QQrdZ1

The Tony Show
06-11-07, 03:28 PM
PM sent.

The Tony Show
06-11-07, 03:34 PM
...or should I say "email sent". Your PMs are still full, you popular guy you....

MescalVto
06-11-07, 03:49 PM
What's this 2008 M8 on order??

Pretty sure it's another snow toy! :rolleyes:

Kadonny
06-11-07, 04:41 PM
Do it! New V every 2 years.

05......07....................09!

thebigjimsho
06-11-07, 04:46 PM
Do it! New V every 2 years.

05......07....................09!I just can't get rid of a car that I like that quickly. For me, every 5 years. The SHO was for 10. My '04 will become strictly a garage queen/track day car when I pick up my '09 from Chesrown in 2 years...

DILLIGAF
06-11-07, 07:30 PM
Never makes sense to me to get rid of a car that theres nothing wrong with.I'll have a new motor by 09 to throw in mine,my car is staying put!

heavymetals
06-11-07, 08:47 PM
Sounds like you've already decided.

I think your maggie is gonna turn into one expensive door stop......:rolleyes:

CVP33
06-11-07, 09:11 PM
Rick - get the new one. I know I would.

On a side note, I sure miss my flashed PCM. I just paid $800 for a spare PCM with Stage II flash. The only thing we can change is TQ management, top speed limiter and idle rpms. Not even close to what you offer Rick. Oh well, I just paid $800 for a shift kit. The worst part is it's VIN specific. Once I'm done with it, I throw it away.

V-Max
06-11-07, 09:18 PM
In Ohio you'll only pay taxes on the difference. Just think in 5 years when the next V is old you can do the same thing. Of course you'l be driving a generation behind. How would effect your web page? The LS1 based engines were around for 10 years. LS2 might be a good choice. The only change maybe dod. Just make sure the battery is charged. They have another for WW? :)


Norm

rand49er
06-11-07, 09:54 PM
If you're not going to mod it, get the '07. Those LS2s put out 20-25 hp more than the LS6 right out of the box. :eek:

If you're going to mod a car, stay with the '05.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

wildwhl
06-11-07, 09:56 PM
Rick -

No deal.

$15K+ out of pocket isn't worth it, in my book. Spend some on mods now, and enjoy the V you already know and love.

Hope the deal is as sweet next summer on an '09 :cookoo:

WW

whisler151
06-11-07, 09:59 PM
Do it! We need more 2007 V's on the forum!

V's-V
06-11-07, 10:28 PM
Go for it Rick. Its the right thing to do. (love my LS2) If you do get it, I for one can't wait to see what you'll do with it! :highfive:
Good luck in advance:thumbsup:

wildwhl
06-11-07, 10:48 PM
Figure it this way?

$18K is half way to a C5 Z06 garage queen (and you know it), maybe even a well *refined* version.

Only CVP would trade up for the same thing again...don't kid yourself, the LS2 is a truck engine.

WW

V-Love
06-11-07, 11:06 PM
In 1 year we should be getting delivery dates for our supercharged, superpowered, 2 and 1/2 inch wider, buldging fendered, bumped hood, 3 inch off the ground, 18 inch cryo-treated two piece floating double dimple rotored, 7 bolt pattern 20 inch rim, diamond grille, blue devil, 6 inch catless exhaust, optional whistle tips(should be standard), ram air, 666 horsepower, side vented, open roof, nippled brakelight, short throw shifted, backward compatable, unscratchable, 2990 pound, manual/automatic/paddle shifted, 5000 watt stereo, blue tooth, touchscreen, nitrous equipped, 12 bolt rear, guaranteed for life diff, 10 air bag, Tiffany interior, under 55 thousand dollar, M5 door sucking BEASTS!
I think you should wait because I am going to need a tune before I even drive it.
Just something to think about.:D

Vlightful
06-12-07, 09:28 AM
Join the unique club of people who have owned more than 1 V! My 2nd should be here this week and can't wait to try the LS2!

RightTurn
06-12-07, 12:07 PM
Go for it. The new car smell alone should be worth it, :lol: You know you want it. :D

z06bigbird
06-12-07, 12:18 PM
What?? I thought you were going for the new KIA!!

WheelHop
06-12-07, 01:54 PM
The big question is - How much are they screwing you out of the current V? Sell that bad boy to an individual and get more for it and just use the cash for a bigger down payment. You're always the one getting the piss-end of the deal on trades..
It never hurts to up-date, but it's not wise if you loose so much on the trade.

CVP33
06-12-07, 07:39 PM
Figure it this way?

$18K is half way to a C5 Z06 garage queen (and you know it), maybe even a well *refined* version.

Only CVP would trade up for the same thing again...don't kid yourself, the LS2 is a truck engine.

WW

I resemble that remark! Admitting you have a problem is the first step.

"My name is Chris and I love cars. No, I really mean it, I love cars. Yes, in a physical sense as well."

There, I feel better. And for the record I just dropped $1,600 bucks on the following:

Spare PCM with B&G Stage II flash
DC Strut Tower Brace
Magnaflow High Flow Mid Pipes
aFe Stage II CAI

I'll be putting these on with the Hotchkis Sways, Magnaflow catback and Falken 452's. I admitted I have a problem, but didn't say I was willing to fix it yet. Baby steps gentlemen, baby steps.

StealthV
06-12-07, 09:42 PM
One V is enough; time to go to the end of the alphabet.

slk230mb
06-12-07, 10:47 PM
Z you later. lol

Dave-V
06-13-07, 09:28 AM
The clean Manheim auction price of an '05 with 30K is 28500 +18000 = 46500 for the '07. Fair. '07 Z06 with 2K is bringing 65-69K. FYI :thumbsup:

StealthV
06-13-07, 01:10 PM
Dave, those are the exact numbers for both the old and new Vs that were tossed around with the dealer. Not a "definitely leap on it deal" but as mentioned relatively fair for both parties.

With WW's advice, only CVP would buy the same car twice and a plebian LS2 to boot? I came back to my senses and turned the corner to a '08 Z06.

The Tony Show
06-13-07, 01:11 PM
Dave, those are the exact numbers for both the old and new Vs that were tossed around with the dealer. Not a definitely leap on it deal but relatively fair for both parties.

With WW's advice, only CVP would buy the same car twice and a plebian LS2 to boot? I came back to my senses and turned the corner to a '08 Z06.

That's more like it. Tune the crap out of that LS7 and post some impressions, Rick- I can only imagine what that baby'll do when you're done with her. :worship:

StealthV
06-13-07, 01:19 PM
The Z is going to stay bone stock until the warranty is up. Perhaps a cat-back but that's about it.

dvandentop
06-13-07, 01:22 PM
i will have to come up to minneapolis for a test ride!!

urbanski
06-13-07, 02:25 PM
With WW's advice, only CVP would buy the same car twice and a plebian LS2 to boot? I came back to my senses and turned the corner to a '08 Z06.

*08 Z07

Koooop
06-13-07, 02:35 PM
I say wait for the '09. Beat the snot out of the '05 for another year.

05 for 07? I do believe you'd be kicking yourself in just 12 short months.

StealthV
06-13-07, 03:05 PM
Much has happened this week since I first researched the '07 on Monday.

Cadillac had their opportunity to move me, their target growth market, into a '09 V. Today with the lack of corporate support of the product problems we've had as V owners and the mixed support at the dealer level, they've lost me as a customer.

What makes everyone think that a 500 - 600 (or even a 4XX-ish) horsepower '09 V is going to be somehow different "next time." Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...

Call me a skeptical if you will but I'm not going to buy a first year '09 and live through the product problems of increased power and torque that is pushing the limits of the chassis and component design again. We've all been to that party once before. The lack of dealer support, poor engineering designs and thunderous depreciation don't add up to great thing for me.

My two different dealer experiences over the last three years have left a very bad taste in my mouth and reamplified why people choose something like a BMW or Lexus instead of a Cadillac today. ***There is no reason I should have to buy replacement parts for things a dealership DAMAGED (dealership tried to hide it) on my V while in for relatively routine service or be flat out lied to, cheated out of cash for parts I paid for out of my own pocket that were not installed and have a V out of service for two weeks for basic repairs.

As for the Z07? I'm scrounging pennies to pay for the Z06. And thinking about the above statements, perhaps I should just say no to GM entirely and look at something European.

The Tony Show
06-13-07, 03:09 PM
Holy crap! :eek:

Shoot me an email or call my cell and let me know what happened.

urbanski
06-13-07, 03:10 PM
i linked ya to the right car early on bro :bigthumb:

thebigjimsho
06-13-07, 04:24 PM
I think I'm going to be scrounging to picked up a slightly used Z06 in the next 2 years. I planned on keeping the V but tracking a Z06 with a '10 V bought from Chesrown in 4 years sounds good to me...

V-Love
06-13-07, 05:07 PM
Much has happened this week since I first researched the '07 on Monday.

Cadillac had their opportunity to move me, their target growth market, into a '09 V. Today with the lack of corporate support of the product problems we've had as V owners and the mixed support at the dealer level, they've lost me as a customer.

What makes everyone think that a 500 - 600 (or even a 4XX-ish) horsepower '09 V is going to be somehow different "next time." Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...

Call me a skeptical if you will but I'm not going to buy a first year '09 and live through the product problems of increased power and torque that is pushing the limits of the chassis and component design again. We've all been to that party once before. The lack of dealer support, poor engineering designs and thunderous depreciation don't add up to great thing for me.

My two different dealer experiences over the last three years have left a very bad taste in my mouth and reamplified why people choose something like a BMW or Lexus instead of a Cadillac today. ***There is no reason I should have to buy replacement parts for things a dealership DAMAGED (dealership tried to hide it) on my V while in for relatively routine service or be flat out lied to, cheated out of cash for parts I paid for out of my own pocket that were not installed and have a V out of service for two weeks for basic repairs.

As for the Z07? I'm scrounging pennies to pay for the Z06. And thinking about the above statements, perhaps I should just say no to GM entirely and look at something European.

OUCH! Thank god your still buying American. Vettes are great. I just like the extra crumple zone the V provides.
I understand all your issues. Please never buy a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Range Rover, ect. They are gueer, status symbol, mass produced crap(mabey they drive nice). Plus all of those countries hate us. Not to mention you can just borrow your neighbors. Don't get me started on China..... Sorry for the ramble.
You will be missed around here for sure. Will you still tune 09's?

DILLIGAF
06-13-07, 06:14 PM
Much has happened this week since I first researched the '07 on Monday.

Cadillac had their opportunity to move me, their target growth market, into a '09 V. Today with the lack of corporate support of the product problems we've had as V owners and the mixed support at the dealer level, they've lost me as a customer.

What makes everyone think that a 500 - 600 (or even a 4XX-ish) horsepower '09 V is going to be somehow different "next time." Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...

Call me a skeptical if you will but I'm not going to buy a first year '09 and live through the product problems of increased power and torque that is pushing the limits of the chassis and component design again. We've all been to that party once before. The lack of dealer support, poor engineering designs and thunderous depreciation don't add up to great thing for me.

My two different dealer experiences over the last three years have left a very bad taste in my mouth and reamplified why people choose something like a BMW or Lexus instead of a Cadillac today. ***There is no reason I should have to buy replacement parts for things a dealership DAMAGED (dealership tried to hide it) on my V while in for relatively routine service or be flat out lied to, cheated out of cash for parts I paid for out of my own pocket that were not installed and have a V out of service for two weeks for basic repairs.

As for the Z07? I'm scrounging pennies to pay for the Z06. And thinking about the above statements, perhaps I should just say no to GM entirely and look at something European.This surprises me,not so much for the european statement.The anti chevy statement.I hope to find the same level of performance for under 70 grand some day that my car has.

Koooop
06-13-07, 06:47 PM
TO HELL WITH THE PROBLEMS! GET ME AN 09!

(and a good warranty)

atdeneve
06-14-07, 11:23 AM
My two different dealer experiences over the last three years have left a very bad taste in my mouth and reamplified why people choose something like a BMW or Lexus instead of a Cadillac today. ***There is no reason I should have to buy replacement parts for things a dealership DAMAGED (dealership tried to hide it) on my V while in for relatively routine service or be flat out lied to, cheated out of cash for parts I paid for out of my own pocket that were not installed and have a V out of service for two weeks for basic repairs.


Hey, looks like my dealer service experience, almost exactly line for line. I feeehl your pain. Ah dew.

GMBOUND
06-14-07, 12:44 PM
Please find another dealer (one who likes your money) and stay with GM. These dealers are not owned by GM, some of them like having lots of cars on the lots. Don't take this experience out on the good dealers that likes to sell their cars to car enthusiasts like yourself.

Plus look at how much more you'll pay for reg. maint. $100 oil changes and so on.

Sorry for your issues with this dealer. I've had one with a dealer where I had to get some pretty big wheels a turnin to correct the screwin I was getting. Everything is fixed now but I was thinking to myself, if the dealer would screw an employee this way I could only imagine what they would do to any joe blow off the street.

StealthV
06-14-07, 01:58 PM
Yes dealers are independent but they also have the "Cadillac" logo on the storefront which makes them representatives of the manufacturer and customer expectations. Unfortunately it is luck of the draw on which "technician" happens to work on the car that particular day to find out at the end of the process whether a "dealer" is good or bad that day. Perhaps it was a one-off occurance or it may be how that dealer operates day-to-day.

The CTS-V is like the infamous Cimmaron from the old days; a base CTS dressed up in the emperor's new clothes. The V takes a fairly good base CTS chassis, adds a relatively high quality, reliable and durable performance engine and the balance is surrounded by lowest cost supplier crap. All this supported by dealers used to fixing 10 year old Cavaliers and changing oil for grandma's Deville.

Perhaps Cadillac needs to develop new stringent customer service and technician guidelines for their brand (especially the premium V-series line) that provides global standards and consistency regardless of dealership. There shouldn't be any difference to the consumer whether one buys a new Cadillac or has it serviced at dealer X or dealer Y. Some dealers won't make the new grade and that's OK as it proves they shouldn't have the Cadillac brand. In the end these dealers are doing more harm than good by not living up to the brand so their business won't be missed on the corporate bottom line.

CVP33
06-14-07, 02:23 PM
Absolutely no reason for me to "pile on" here. I think everyone knows pretty much where I am on this issue. Leaving Caddy and GM was not an option for me they really left me no other choice. When I looked around at what I wanted in performance, price, etc. I really only had one place to go. If, however, I had it all to do over again I'd have just bought an E69. No, it won't track as well as a CTS-V or an SRT-8 for that matter. No, I can't mod it or work on it myself. But seeing the big picture, that damned thing is fast as hell stock, no need to mod' it. The E69 has incredible resale values so inherent value and residual value is much better. As for dealership experience, I have had GREAT luck with the Chrysler dealers (real 5 stars) so I've almost forgotten how bad a trip to the dealer can be.

The Tony Show
06-14-07, 02:25 PM
Perhaps Cadillac needs to develop new stringent customer service and technician guidelines for their brand (especially the premium V-series line) that provides global standards and consistency regardless of dealership. There shouldn't be any difference to the consumer whether one buys a new Cadillac or has it serviced at dealer X or dealer Y. Some dealers won't make the new grade and that's OK as it proves they shouldn't have the Cadillac brand. In the end these dealers are doing more harm than good by not living up to the brand so their business won't be missed on the corporate bottom line.

They've been trying for years, but you'll never escape certain location being light years better than others.

Look at the Customer Service Masters- Disney. This is a company that actually teaches every Employee how to politely "point" something out, yet you can still walk from one end of the park to the other and find drastic differences in politeness, knowledge and efficiency from park employees.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter how much training and oversight a Manufacturer has with their Dealers, there's still going to be chuckleheads out there.

thebigjimsho
06-14-07, 02:52 PM
Absolutely no reason for me to "pile on" here. I think everyone knows pretty much where I am on this issue. Leaving Caddy and GM was not an option for me they really left me no other choice. When I looked around at what I wanted in performance, price, etc. I really only had one place to go. If, however, I had it all to do over again I'd have just bought an E69. No, it won't track as well as a CTS-V or an SRT-8 for that matter. No, I can't mod it or work on it myself. But seeing the big picture, that damned thing is fast as hell stock, no need to mod' it. The E69 has incredible resale values so inherent value and residual value is much better. As for dealership experience, I have had GREAT luck with the Chrysler dealers (real 5 stars) so I've almost forgotten how bad a trip to the dealer can be.E69, huh? Those muthas are the fastest things eva!!! Faster than anything on earth, anyway...

http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/mpec/K07/K07E69.html

CVP33
06-14-07, 02:54 PM
E69, huh? Those muthas are the fastest things eva!!! Faster than anything on earth, anyway...

http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/mpec/K07/K07E69.html

Did I mean the E63? Well if the E63 runs low 12's, the E69 must be in the 11's. :thumbsup:

StealthV
06-14-07, 04:31 PM
They've been trying for years...

You've unearthed the big white elephant of corporate America -
Do or do not; there is no try.

heavymetals
06-14-07, 06:33 PM
I highly recomend reading this:

"The Machine That Changed The World"

MIT study that is just brutal.

ronr
06-14-07, 09:42 PM
Yes dealers are independent but they also have the "Cadillac" logo on the storefront which makes them representatives of the manufacturer and customer expectations. Unfortunately it is luck of the draw on which "technician" happens to work on the car that particular day to find out at the end of the process whether a "dealer" is good or bad that day. Perhaps it was a one-off occurance or it may be how that dealer operates day-to-day.

The CTS-V is like the infamous Cimmaron from the old days; a base CTS dressed up in the emperor's new clothes. The V takes a fairly good base CTS chassis, adds a relatively high quality, reliable and durable performance engine and the balance is surrounded by lowest cost supplier crap. All this supported by dealers used to fixing 10 year old Cavaliers and changing oil for grandma's Deville.

Perhaps Cadillac needs to develop new stringent customer service and technician guidelines for their brand (especially the premium V-series line) that provides global standards and consistency regardless of dealership. There shouldn't be any difference to the consumer whether one buys a new Cadillac or has it serviced at dealer X or dealer Y. Some dealers won't make the new grade and that's OK as it proves they shouldn't have the Cadillac brand. In the end these dealers are doing more harm than good by not living up to the brand so their business won't be missed on the corporate bottom line.

I agree with your thoughts on the dealer service. Why can't they have "Performance Division" certified dealerships that are specially trained and certified to work on all of the higher performance cars (regardless of brand) that GM sells.

The only reason I take mine to the Cadillac dealer I use is the service writer is fantastic and has no problem "encouraging" the service techs to follow my suggestions (she's pretty well convinced that I know more about my car than her techs do).

If I could, I would take my car to the local Chevy dealer instead (for warranty work). The techs at this Chevy dealer work on a lot of 'vetts, they're a GM performance parts distributor (they sell Mallett his engines) and have good customer service to boot.

Maybe someday :thepan:

whisler151
06-15-07, 10:35 PM
E69, huh? Those muthas are the fastest things eva!!! Faster than anything on earth, anyway...

http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/mpec/K07/K07E69.html

I cant tell you how many posts you've beat me to the punch on calling guys out...once i read the "E69" I was hoping you or Tony hadn't gotten to it yet...DAMNIT!

Good work Sir

CIWS
06-15-07, 10:40 PM
I cant tell you how many posts you've beat me to the punch on calling guys out...once i read the "E69" I was hoping you or Tony hadn't gotten to it yet...DAMNIT!

Good work Sir


CVP is just premenstrual :pms: and hasn't gotten his period yet.

CVP33
06-15-07, 10:58 PM
CVP is just premenstrual :pms: and hasn't gotten his period yet.



Great post! I did get my B&G flashed PCM though. Just installed it tonight. Huge difference. No more timing pulled out before the shift. Traction breaks during the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. 13.1's will be no problem now.

CIWS
06-15-07, 11:04 PM
I did get my B&G flashed PCM though. Just installed it tonight. Huge difference. No more timing pulled out before the shift. Traction breaks during the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.


I get that with the factory PCM flash. Sorry you drive a slushbox.

CVP33
06-15-07, 11:18 PM
I get that with the factory PCM flash. Sorry you drive a slushbox.

LOL. Mine doesn't come with the wheel hop and sketchy rear differential though. :thumbsup:

CIWS
06-15-07, 11:20 PM
LOL. Mine doesn't come with the wheel hop and sketchy rear differential though. :thumbsup:

No yours was shitcanned by Dr. Z. at a multibillion dollar loss.

CVP33
06-15-07, 11:25 PM
Yeah, they shipped him out. Hey did you see the post about the CTS-V in the high 12's with NO2. Man, that's awesome. I'm curious if he's on his original diff or not. I can match his 13.1's but I won't be trapping at 120mph+. Most of our guys are hitting 12.4 - 12.5's with nitrous.

CIWS
06-15-07, 11:36 PM
Yeah, they shipped him out.


Last time I checked Dr. Z was still with the company but 80% of chrysler was sold off because it was ruining the name / brand of Daimler Benz, at a 25 billion dollar loss. He wasn't shipped out chrysler was.

CVP33
06-15-07, 11:38 PM
Last time I checked Dr. Z was still with the company but 80% of chrysler was sold off because it was ruining the name / brand of Daimler Benz, at a 25 billion dollar loss. He wasn't shipped out chrysler was.


Yes. Stock took a nice ride and me with it. Nothing like making money with a few key strokes. eTrade changed the face of trading for us all.

CIWS
06-15-07, 11:40 PM
Yes. Stock took a nice ride and me with it. Nothing like making money with a few key strokes. eTrade changed the face of trading for us all.

:bigroll:

CVP33
06-15-07, 11:48 PM
Bought at 61 and rode it until 92. Best advice I ever got "You'll never buy at the bottom, nor sell at the top." I rode Supervalu from 14 - 47.50, now that was a great ride. I was also in on GM for the 22 - 31 ride until I chickened out. Cyclical stocks are fun and lucrative. I've pulled the trigger on my share but chickened out on even more.

urbanski
06-16-07, 08:42 AM
o i c now