Ok. I have a choice to make and I'd like some feedback/guidance regarding my options.

1. I have not done a block test. I asked a few times what this would do but nobody answered me. Should I get this done? What will it do... tell me if I have a gasket problem or a crack in the block?

2. If it's just the gaskets, how much (ballpark range) would it cost to have them fixed. I know the gaskets are dirt cheap, and that the high cost for the procedure is due to 20+ hours of labor it requires. My mechanic charges $65 an hour - if this takes 30 hours, I'm looking at around $2000 total to have this issue fixed. Any extra costs I'm missing?

3. What's the probability I'll have an overheating problem after the gaskets are fixed? I mean, what if they fix/replace the gaskets for $2000+ and I'm still having problems? Can I get a warranty of some kind on this work? I'm fearful that this problem might have caused damage elsewhere.

4. If I do a block test and it determines the problem is caused by a cracked block instead of the head gaskets, what are my options? I'm assuming in that case, I'd have to discard the engine and have my car stolen and sunk in some marshland. Or I can fix it and just live off white rice for a few months.

I contacted the previous owner and he knew nothing about this issue. He truly felt awful about the situation. He even wrote me a check for $1,000. That money factored in, I got the car for $3350. 47,000+ miles... everything else immaculate.

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

If I can fix the situation with $2,000, I'll do the gaskets.

Also... would any of you buy a car in this condition for $3000 given that everything else with the car is in tip-top shape? Or would I be lucky to get $2000 for it?

Thanks again.

Here are a few pics:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/Traindiggy/IMG_0314.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/Traindiggy/IMG_0291.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/Traindiggy/IMG_0309.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/Traindiggy/IMG_0300.jpg

nice car

personally, i would get a cylinder pressure test done if you're 100% worried about headgaskets. my block test came back negative but i'm still going to get the pressure test done tomorrow.

block test coming back negative doesn't give you a sure answer on whether or not it is leaking coolant

p.s. car looks awesome, i've got a '94 in the same color. just with the gay pinstripes. :-P

lol gotta hate those pin stripes, but heck, i took them off, they ugly. :P

Anyways, i would def. do a pressure test, those are WAY more accurate and you can get one done for about $30 at a mechanic shop, beats breaking your head to get your answer.

Also, if you still haven't, try using the Block Sealers, or the metal powder sealers, you can get them for about $6 for both at any AutoZone, Kragen, Napa, or PartsAmerica.

how did you remove them? i think ranger told me to use a hair dryer

but will there be a different color paint (due to wear and tear on the untouched paint under the pinestripe) underneath? that is my concern :-o

Alot of things goin on here, here's my 2 cents.

1. Get a CYLINDER LEAK TEST, this will determine if your headgaskets are failing, it will tell you definetly whether or not you have a leaky headgasket. If you have a cracked block (never heard of this one before on a N*) its pretty much a death sentence for the motor.

2. If it turns out to be your headgaskets, more than likely it will be, you are looking at 3000-4000 ( i paid 3500) to replace the headgaskets. The motor must be dropped out the bottom of the car. Each head bolt (all 20) must be retapped in the block using timeserts to ensure that the bolts will not back out again. The timesert kit is 300-400 dollars. And you could have warped a head by letting it overheat, you won't know until its apart.

3. If you get the block timeserted your chances are slim to none for another headgasket failure. You should get a warranty, and make sure you take it to a mechanic that has dealt with a northstar before, many mechanics won't even touch them.

4. If your block is cracked you are shit outta luck.

5. You would be lucky to get 2000-3000 for that car, even though it has extremely low miles for the year, whoever buys it is looking at rebuilding the motor or replacing it.

If I were you I would replace the entire motor, itll be 1000-2000 dollars more than rebuilding it. And if you decide to rebuild it, you may run into unforeseen problems, like a cracked block or warped head. Given the mileage, you should replace the engine, if you want to keep it. Trust me I know how you feel I went through the same thing, I sold mine. It turned into a money pit.

I don't know why you are worried about a cracked block or head. That is almost unheard of.

Forget the snake oil sealers.

Well you can't take them off if your car is beat up, the color underneath will definately be different. Im repainting my car, so i just sanded it down with 600 GRIT sand paper, but hey, you might be able to sand it with 1000 GRIT sandpaper, and water and then polish and then wax your car, this would help you out. But don't do this if you are not gonna do the whole side.

Well, I would certainly do the cylinder leak down test. I am not sure if your motor has the water crossover in the throttle body, but if it does, you might check to make sure that it's not sucking water in through there.

I would look at $3000 minimum to get the gaskets fixed, especially since you HAVE to have the timesert kit done and make SURE that the Timesert is done, otherwise, it will pop again (If you do decide to keep it, I have a timesert kit for sale ;))

I highly doubt that it caused damage anywhere else, the N*'s will automaticly shut off if it gets too hot, but check your mechanic for warranty anyway.

IF the block is cracked, (Highly unlikely), then a new motor is in order you can find them anywhere from $1000 used to possibly $5000 new.

If I were in your shoes, I would cut and run, unless you can come up with the money to hire a N* specialist, or do it yourself. With the sale of it and the $2000 you have for the HG, you can probably find something else, depending on your area.


I honestly don't think that you could get $3000 for it with a blown HG, but there is a buyer and a bargin on every street corner, so it's possible.

I got my 98 with a blown HG and 118K well cared for miles for $1500, but the guy NEEDED it gone.


I hope this helps you out in your decision.

47k miles is not that much. You think someone would have come up with a replacement engine or something for all these Norstar engines blowing gaskets.

Its going to be costly to keep this car, everything seems expensive.

Can I ask a dumb question? If what causes the headgaskets to go bad is the bolts backing out, would it be a bad idea if one were to just try and tighten them up periodically? (assuming they had the car new or just got the car).

Again this a dumb question because I don't know where the bolts are or how difficult is to get at them.

I agree with the others, get the block test done!

Its pretty hard to get to all the headbolts, especially the ones by the firewall. They back out because the threads in the block aren't long enough. So there wouldn't really be anything to tighten them into because the threads in the block would just pull out.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards dumping the car. I think I might be able to get at least $2000 for it - after all, the car's book value is around $8,000 - so the person buying it will still get a good deal ($2000 for car + $3000 in repairs = $5000 for flawless car with low mileage). I don't know... maybe it's wishful thinking on my part.

What I would like someone to explain to me is why I should even bother going through a block test. I mean, if there are white marks on the plugs, and the thermostat marker fluctuates wildly (gets hot going up hill, then levels off; gets hot as I speed up on speedway, cools down as I slow down), couldn't this only be a head gasket issue?

What will the block test prove/disprove? Will it tell me I don't have a head gasket problem and that something else is causing coolant to reach the spark plugs?

What if the block test and cylinder pressure test come back clean? How else can coolant get into the plugs?

My oil is fine... nothing milky at all. No "false boiling" going on in the tank. No leaks anywhere.

When the car overheated last week, I lost over a quart of coolant out through the overflow hose.

The ONLY reason I believe I have blown gaskets is because my mechanic showed me spark plugs with white residue on them. That along with the wild fluctuations of the thermostat, he said, are classic signs of gasket failure.

Is that enough to go on?

My friend, I would 100% ensure you, you can get your answer by a Cylinder Pressure Test, this will tell you if you are having a bad gasket or otherwise.

Alot of mechanics will tell you that you have a HG problem, but really, they just want to reach into your pocket. my suggestion is go to other mechanics, just ask them what they think it could be, never tell them what YOU think it is, just let them take care of it.

Trying doing this before really selling your car, you might have to spend about $50 to get this done.

1. Replace your thermostats, thermostat gasket and hose leading to thermostat. $40.

2. Check for any released air out of hoses.

3. Make sure you do not have a clogged cooling system, meaning your water tank, radiator or hoses.

4. Buy a block sealer, these things will not cure your problem, but can really improve your ride and give you an extra 6-7 months of added protection. My 2000 Chevy Impala is still riding with this, its been 2 yrs since I added it, I had a cracked block, this fixed it up. $5-6

5. If all else doesn't work, buy a for sale sign. $4

Exactly a year ago, the previous owner had this work done:

New Radiator
New Theromostat
New Upper Hose
New Lower Hose

They also checked for leaks. He paid $900 including tax for all of this (he was a 75-year-old Chinese man; and he might have been taken advantage of).

My mechanic checked for leaks and found none.

He didn't do the cylinder pressure test because he said he was 100 percent sure the head gaskets were blown. He showed me the spark plugs and said they had coolant on them. He said the temperature on the car volleying back and forth was a classic HG sign. He told me I was just wasting money by doing the cylinder test.

He even suggested to me I sell the car. He said I should contact the previous owner and see if they'd give me any money back. Not once did he pressure me to fix the gaskets.

I don't think my mechanics are evil, but I do think they're kind of dumb. I stopped by today to ask them about doing a "block test" and they seemed pretty ignorant as to what that was. I'm going to try another shop later today.

I'll keep you updated. Thanks again.

Lastly, I got a tune-up done three weeks ago. Any chance my mechanics screwed something up that would have caused my plugs to turn white or come into contact with coolant?

Ok, there are a couple of ways for water to be getting into the heads.

There is a water crossover in the throttle body, that if leaking can suck coolant right down the engine.

There is a water crossover going from each head, that if leaking might get into a cylinder.

Now, I am not convinced that there is water in the cylinder JUST by white marks on the plugs.

Find a mechanic that will do the leak down test, you want to be 100% sure that it's a head gasket.

With that kind of miles and the way the car looks I would spend the money and do the test. If it fails it, then you know for sure what option you have. Fix or sell? But now without knowing for sure you are just in limbo. I trully hope that it isn't the HG and something else less expensive. That car is too nice to just give up on. Take care and good luck!

David

keep in mind that headgaskets won't be the end of your money-woes

probably at 75,000miles or so you'll be dropping a couple grand on the suspension (unless you convert it to passive)

keep in mind that headgaskets won't be the end of your money-woes

probably at 75,000miles or so you'll be dropping a couple grand on the suspension (unless you convert it to passive)


Not true at all. My 95 SLS had 180K on it when it needed struts and it had the stock ones on there. Hell my 98 still rides like new, NONE of the Seville Shakes.


Also, I don't see HOW those head bolts can back out. I BROKE 2 craftsman ratchets trying to get them loose.

keep in mind that headgaskets won't be the end of your money-woes

probably at 75,000miles or so you'll be dropping a couple grand on the suspension (unless you convert it to passive)

Maaaaan... I still have my 1995 SLS that is pretty much without a suspension. I feel everything. That has 118,000 miles on it... and I believe the original plugs and stuff on the engine.

I mean... the SLS, which I bought early in 2006, was the first car I ever owned. And damn, was a Caddy the wrong car to start with. Heck, I learn something every day (I just learned about adding "pellets" to the coolant). It's no wonder why so many people have problems with these cars. They're like high maintenance girlfriends who need constant attention. If you take care of them, they'll go 200,000 miles. If you don't, they'll give you angina by the 50,000 mile mark.

I'm actually relieved to hear I can use a suspension kit on my car. Someone said $650. My mechanic kept telling me that I needed to do the suspension. He said it was around $4,000; and that he didn't know if I could just throw on gas shocks. I told him to go to hell, and that I'd rather hit a pothole and fly off the Brooklyn Bridge than give him anymore money.

Hopefully, I won't hit a pothole in Leroy Green (suspension-less SLS) and Forest Whitaker (overheating STS) doesn't need HGs replaced.

But damn, I love these Caddies. Who the heck wants to drive a Toyota Corolla?

Also, I don't see HOW those head bolts can back out. I BROKE 2 craftsman ratchets trying to get them loose.

Its actually the threads in the block that back out. Thats why when you have a headgaskets issue you must timesert the block with fatter and longer threads than stock to prevent such a thing from happening again. When mine went bad 5 out of my 20 head bolts had pulled the threads right out of the block, i wouldn't have believed it unless i saw it for myself.

The threads usually only pull when a gasket fails and coolant gets into the threads. Galvanic action causes them to deteriorate and pull. Other times they are tore up upon removal. In either case the threads are not the cause of the problem, though they frequently get the blame.

Well put Ranger.

Mine had what appeared to be a factory defect in the head. There was a small area that had grooved out and slowly ate away at the gasket until it popped.

My threads didn't pull out or anything like that, but I timeserted it anyway (as any sane person would).

I'm actually relieved to hear I can use a suspension kit on my car. Someone said $650. My mechanic kept telling me that I needed to do the suspension. He said it was around $4,000; and that he didn't know if I could just throw on gas shocks. I told him to go to hell, and that I'd rather hit a pothole and fly off the Brooklyn Bridge than give him anymore money.

yeah, that was me :-P

cadillac dealership quoted me $3500 to replace all the dead electronic parts.

i said, uh, no thanks, and looked around on the net a little

www.strutmasters.com

replaces everything aside from the rear coils for $650

ask for brent when you call--very knowledgeable.

Not true at all. My 95 SLS had 180K on it when it needed struts and it had the stock ones on there.


you are very, very lucky.

and uncommon.

it really isn't possible to "keep up" on the electronic suspension parts, as they're all just R&R type modules/chips

the actual struts aren't the parts that wear/go bad so quick. :-D

Thanks Rocky... should I have to dump the STS and fix up my SLS, I'll definitely update the suspension. Brent will come in handy. Thanks.

hey no problem :-P

hello all, this must be the place to sing the gasket blues. i need some input from you fellas. i have a 94 touring coupe-northstar, i have taken immaculate care of it and have it serviced properly. the car has 58000 miles on it. i like this car alot, i dont drive much it has everything i need and i feel it is sturdy and safe, and its still very nice looking. it is a one owner car and costs me 42 grand. it has been a bit of a lemon i guess. recently i had the central computer board replaced because i was getting service engine soon signals, also had rear shocks redone, put around 2 grand into it. right after that my a/c went out, had that fixed but they said they were having trouble getting a seal to develop. thought my problems would be gone for awhile, not soo... :stirpot: again the service engine light is coming on but only now and then, not really much very sporadic. took it in again and got the head gasket story and a $3200 quote. i never overheat, dont smell anything weird yet, and the guy said well maybe it wont even act up for another year or it could be next week. he said the anti freeze had spilled out. i hate like hell to have to trade now. since its apparetly unphased still, should i trade and not mention this, or is the mechanic a liar...input please and thanks so much, i sincerely appreciate solid advice on this major issue.

Man, it's a ****ing shame that a '96 STS can blow the HG's at 47k, especially one that's *that* beautifiul. God, that car is just gorgeous, inside and out.

I wonder what happened to that guy's car -- this thread is like 6 mo. old...

In reading this thread is this car just known to be problematic, i thought the whole concept of buying a well made high end car :was that if you took care of it it would last you forever, my kids Honda is doing better than this.

Nice looking car. My opinion would be to find out what he problem is before I made a decision on what to do about it. The way I see it, you have $3350 in it now, after the "rebate" from the previous owner. After you find out what it will cost to make the repair (what ever the problem is) add that to the money you bought the car with to get a real cost of owning this car. Look up on either KBB or Edmounds and see what the car is worth. If you have vested more in the purchase and repair than the blue books say it is worth, then it would be wise to let the car go. You may also want to consider in your decision, thou, what else could you get for the money spent on the caddie if you repair it, worst case you'll have $7350 in it, can you find something that nice for the same money? Tough decision.

hello all, this must be the place to sing the gasket blues. i need some input from you fellas. i have a 94 touring coupe-northstar, i have taken immaculate care of it and have it serviced properly. the car has 58000 miles on it. i like this car alot, i dont drive much it has everything i need and i feel it is sturdy and safe, and its still very nice looking. it is a one owner car and costs me 42 grand. it has been a bit of a lemon i guess. recently i had the central computer board replaced because i was getting service engine soon signals, also had rear shocks redone, put around 2 grand into it. right after that my a/c went out, had that fixed but they said they were having trouble getting a seal to develop. thought my problems would be gone for awhile, not soo... :stirpot: again the service engine light is coming on but only now and then, not really much very sporadic. took it in again and got the head gasket story and a $3200 quote. i never overheat, dont smell anything weird yet, and the guy said well maybe it wont even act up for another year or it could be next week. he said the anti freeze had spilled out. i hate like hell to have to trade now. since its apparetly unphased still, should i trade and not mention this, or is the mechanic a liar...input please and thanks so much, i sincerely appreciate solid advice on this major issue.
an ses light for an hg? not likely, what code is being thrown? I think this mechanic may be a liar "you HG is blown but there are no symptoms yet it could be a week or a year" that sounds like pure unadulterated horsesh** to me.
but thats just my opinion.

This sounds like an opportunity to let it go. Its too bad, since the miles are so few.

again the service engine light is coming on but only now and then, not really much very sporadic. took it in again and got the head gasket story and a $3200 quote. i never overheat, dont smell anything weird yet, and the guy said well maybe it wont even act up for another year or it could be next week. he said the anti freeze had spilled out. i hate like hell to have to trade now. since its apparetly unphased still, should i trade and not mention this, or is the mechanic a liar...input please and thanks so much, i sincerely appreciate solid advice on this major issue.

And by any chance did the mechanic have a spot in his schedule the next day for you? Since N*s are known for HG problems, less than scrupulous guys who need work like to jump on that bandwagon, particularly if the owner does not know a lot about cars. Some people will give you that diagnosis if they don't want to work on N* to make you go away. At a minimum get a 2nd opinion and do not mention that the 1st guy said it could be headgaskets. Learn to pull your own codes:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/55172-how-pull-codes-got-codes-warning.html

As far as trying to trade if it is the HGs, most dealers will be on to this issue and either check for it or drop the value of the car assuming it has HG problems. Check your coolant level, top it off and monitor it for consumption. You can also buy test strips for exhaust gasses in the coolant - that will be a big clue about your HG health. There's a few possibilities for coolant loss and overheating that aren't the headgaskets.

Wtf. Answers Please

oK GUYS THANKS!!! FORGIVE THE WTF, MY LINK WAS NOT REFRESHED AND I DID OT SEE ANY REPLIES YET. i WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE CODES, WILL I GET A SPECIFIC WARNING CODE IF I DO HAVE THIS PROBLEM, AS I SAID, i AM GETTING A SERVICE ENGINE SOON SIGNAL AT BEST VERY ON AND OFF, ACTUALLY IT HARDLY COMES ON AT ALL, JUST SOMETIMES FOR A FEW MINUTES THEN ITS GONE NEXT TIME I DRIVE IT. ARE COOLANT LEVELS DECREASING AN INDICATOR? THE MECHANIC IS MY CADDY DEALERSHIP, AND IT SEEMS THEY CAN ALWAYS FIND SOMETHING THAT NEEDS FIXING. ARE THE NEW CADDYS A PIECE OF JUNK TOO? AND WHAT OTHER PROBLEMS OTHER THAN THE OBVIOUS WOULD CAUSE THE SERVICE ENGINE LIGHT TO COME ON??

One More Thing, My Main Computer Board Was Replaced With A New One, I Wonder If This Board Is Newer Than The Kind Of Board In A 94 Therefore Maybe The Codes Would Be For A Newer Model, Make Sense? Plus How Come When They Did A Diagnostic Just A Few Moths Ago And Told Me I Needed A New Computer, They Did Not See Any Gasket Problems Then? Sheeit, They Were Under The Hood?

Decreasing coolant levels MAY be a sign of headgasket problems - or a cooling system leak of another variety. The dealer should not have replaced your "main computer board" (I'm guessing Engine Control Module (ECM) here) with anything incompatible. Its possible that side effects from the repair could trip the light, but only possible. If the SES light comes on and goes off it should leave a 'History' code behind in many cases to give you a clue as to what caused it. The best case would be to pulll codes while the light is still on. That would give you a more accurate snapshot of the situation. Headgasket problems aren't really visible when you look at the car, so your dealer would have had a hard time spotting them when they did the ECM; headgaskets require specific diagnostic tests. Ask them what tests they did to determine the headgaskets are bad. If they did a leak-down test their diagnosis is more credible.

If you like the car I would say get it fixed.

I SINCERELY APPRECIATE ALL THE INPUT, THE ADVICE HAS BEEN INVALUABLE, THANKS! We took the car in as we had a 'free tire rotation" coupon from the dealership. I am quite certain they did no specific testing whatsoever to make this determination which leaves me "fuming" now, pardon the pun. Thats crap, doing that to people. he made a visual observation only, when questioned about it on the phone during my follow up he stammered around LOTS. My husband believes whatever they tell him, I on the other hand think they see him coming. I would however hate to be wrong in the end. Lets say for discussions sake the mechanic was right....what are the most primary simple signs (not codes) that signal a HG problem is brewing. Also, is this a problem that increases with more drive time? If I drive the other Cad we own for awhile will i buy myself moretime with this one? This mechanic told me these problems tend to come out more during spells of severe weather and we are in the midst of winter clearly, also HE said it had nothing to do with mileage, this car has very low miles for a 94 around 56000 ...was this BS too? I am really wanting to get to the core of this, BECAUSE if there is a chance in Hello he was right i want to dump the car for a Honda. I think if I took it to a Honda dealership asap they would give a decent trade in on it, it only costs them hours to fix not money so i dont feel too bad about concealing this if its not obvious anyhow. Ideally though, I hoped to drive the car for a few more years since it has so well cared for, it still looks very nice and I just dont want to have buy a new car now. So thanks again all, Happy new Year too

Lets say for discussions sake the mechanic was right....what are the most primary simple signs (not codes) that signal a HG problem is brewing.

Signs you COULD have a headgasket problem:
1) White smoke/steam coming from the exhaust that smells like coolant.
2) Coolant consumption without an associated leak.
3) Stalling, misfiring and just generally running crappy (lots of possibilities for this though).
4) Bubbles in the coolant surge tank while the engine is running.
5) A positive test for exhaust gas byproducts in the coolant (you can buy test strips at auto parts stores).
6) Overheating and surge tank overflow with a normally functioning cooling system.

The gold standard diagnostic is a cylinder leak-down test. Basically the individual engine cylinders are pressurized with air and monitored to see if they hold the pressure or it leaks away. However, that requires specialized tools and a fair amount of time to conduct since I believe you need to let each cylinder sit under pressure for some time. Try searching "leak down" and you should get a better description. Ranger's posts on this test are pretty informative.

I'm kind of surprised that they diagnosed headgaskets based on only a visual inspection, unless its spewing huge clouds of steam and the surge tank is empty or they did a coolant exhaust byproduct test. If you get the opportunity, ask them what specific tests they performed to diagnose the HGs as bad.

Thank you, this is greatly helpful as I know now what specifics and facts to deal with, I dont dare talk to the dealership again or i will lose it and i may need them in the future but i am greatly upset that this guy was so dishonest or DUMB, one of the two. I think when they see a car that is well kept it can work against you as they know you will fix the car, if it was all trashed and they did not know we were spenders i bet they would not have found this huge problem. Thank you all, this has given me peace of mind and makes me realize how powerful and useful the net can be.

I am thinking now i probably didnt need that ECM either....

Until you can develop a trust level with this dealership I'd recommend a second opinion on their diagnoses. Pulling your own codes is another good first line of defense because then you are working with the same information the techs start with.

honda will not give you shit for your trade-in

believe that :-P

Rocky's right.
Honda will only give top $$ on fairly new, low mile import trades.
My Honda service mgr tells me they only work on Hondas. When talking about Northstar motors,
he mentioned any repairs are referred back to a GM dealership.
If a Caddy is traded in to most Honda stores, the car goes straight to auction or a wholesaler for peanuts.

I guys, I am back again. Still not at peace about this problem so I called the dealership today and spoke with the service manager, he seemed to get a bit testy with me although I remained very factual and rational, no yelling or anything. Anyway, he acted like i had nerve just to question them since they have always done work on my car. I asked exactly how this HG issue was diagnosed. In short the only determing factor this "replace the HG for around 3200" was made on was a single visual look by the guy rotating my tires, he stated coolant around gaskets leaking. Serrvice mgr said I could come in and he would "show" me, i said I had conversed with some Caaddy experts on a forum (I know some of you have been around the block) and was told visual is insuffcient to make this HG diagnosis- he clearly disagrees. I asked about the fume test and he said he did not want to run it because it was too early as it is not leaking into the fuel yet WTF!!!! I repeat WTF!!!! I have no over heating, no large amounts of anything leaking as far as i can see. The only thing I have noticed is the exhaust is actually sort of whitish but its winter, so I think it always has looked that way, will have to pay more attention but it has been more noticeable. So now if the dealership says it has a HG problem and I want to trade up they wont give me much right..so I cant go to my Cadillac dealer to trade because of this dummy putting it on my service records. I would not want to sell it privitely as it could be a potential time bomb for somebody else, I think the Caddy dealership is where i would have gotten the most money before this issue arose. All things aside..... I am just thinking out loud here, the advise has been very useful. Thanks

The only thing I have noticed is the exhaust is actually sort of whitish but its winter, so I think it always has looked that way, will have to pay more attention but it has been more noticeable. So now if the dealership says it has a HG problem and I want to trade up they wont give me much right

It can be hard to distinguish normal condensation from the exhaust from coolant at this time of year. The primary differences in my experience is that coolant fumes are usually "thicker" than condensation, you get the sweet smell of coolant (and interesting looks from your neighbors when you're sniffing your car exhaust). Check the coolant level in the surge tank (only with a cold engine) and keep track of it - if it is going down and you are not leaking it anywhere its a possible sign of HG problems.

Although I haven't been here that long, I don't think I've read a HG thread where there is an external leak like your service manager was selling, seems to me that the HGs fail internally much more often. Need the techs and wizards to chime in on this one.

Go to (or call) an auto parts store and ask them for coolant test strips for exhaust gas byproducts. Should not be expensive. Follow the directions (I think its just open the tank and dip).

And last but not least, if I remember right and you have the 94 Eldo, you are probably not going to get much for trade-in on your car at a new car dealership no matter what the condition. Even if you've taken great care of it and it has low miles and zero problems, the killer is that its 14 years old. No dealer will do anything other than wholesale it and if they flash you a big trade-in number they're making up for it by not reducing the price on the car you would buy. That's just the law of automobile economics in dealer-land. If you want proof, check the used car inventory of any new-car dealer you would consider trading and look for the age of the oldest used vehicle they have. If its over five years I'd be surprised. You might be able to do a little better on paper at a used car dealer, but they will play the same game on you with the purchase price. There is generally increased risk at UCDs since their major supply chain is the dealer wholesale auctions and their margins tend to be more aggressive since their primary (and often only) profit center is sales.

Thanks Chubs, I sure hope its all ok, going to take things to the next step and test the fumes, i think i am ok, so I will just plan on driving it into the ground. Its still a great car, comfy, good stereo, lots of room, things could be worse.

Thanks Chubs, I sure hope its all ok, going to take things to the next step and test the fumes, i think i am ok, so I will just plan on driving it into the ground. Its still a great car, comfy, good stereo, lots of room, things could be worse.

Angel,
There is another option. When in doubt you can apply what I call the chubbyranger law of selective economics. Lets assume the worst case that your headgaskets are cooked. Then you can ask yourself: "would I buy this car for $3200 with new headgaskets?" You know the overall condition better than anyone else. If you like the car and the overall condition and mileage are such that if you had to buy it for the price of the necessary repairs it is what you would be willing to pay someone else for the car, it can sometimes justify the investment in repais vs. what others would pay for the car in its current condition. This can be a dangerous approach - it walked me down a $4000 road with my Deville - but I enjoyed that car and still miss it some days. Eventually you have to cut the cord and say "enough," and that point is hard to find, especially with cars you are attached to. But I'd still rather drive a used Caddy than a new Hyundai.